If they make it a mobile phone version of street pass plaza, I'm game. All the street pass games can pretty much be played on the phone, thought mii force and the zombie game would be annoying.
Amiibo unlocked costume pieces would be awesome too!
Hopefully this brings us more mii customization options! I want red hair and eyes!
@TheRealThanos The thing is, I'm assuming that there are different servers for storing games to be downloaded, and to be used by the actual games. The servers used for the actual game like for online multiplayer are irrelevant here because they effect physical copies the same way as digital copies.
Triple A titles two gens ago were under a GB, and was a decent size for back then in early 2000's, but now is nothing. Last gen, aside from nintendo, games were about 10 to 20 gb. In 2006, it might have been a bit, but now 3TB is normal. What I'm asserting is that to keep these titles on the online stores in the future will be effortless, because size of the entire library of digital titles from previous consoles will likely be comparable to a triple A title.
Though the profitability argument is rather sound, they may discontinue them on purpose so you buy the newest console... but that would likely piss off digital collector consumers and win rivals who keep old games available for redownload more fans.
I love my ps3 and all it's games. I have loads of digital games, but the ps4 is not compatible with those games. That coupled with paying to play online is why I will not buy a ps4... unless they get a mega man game exclusive... but seeing how ps4 is more like a pc hardware wise, it's digital titles may end up playable on the ps5.
I think it all will boil down to how consumers vote with their wallet and how much we complain when they try to pull those kind of stunts, like when microsoft first introduced the xbone
@TheRealThanos Well, considering how all of nintendo's eshop titles can probably fir on a terrabyte harddrive, it wouldn't be hard to keep these games on their servers and move them to the next server they get to replace them, especially as memory keeps getting cheaper.
And those examples of games being removed were from the beginning of digital distribution, as it becomes the norm, these issues will become that which the consumer cares about. I believe that in the near future, that issue will be addressed, probably starting with movies.
So, while personally, I don't expect to be able to redownload in 20 years (who knows if today's consoles will even work with 20 years from now tv's!), there is a possibility that I may be able to as digital distribution becomes the norm and evolves.
Aside from that, we basically agree on everything. I don't buy games that require online validation everytime I play except on steam. What matters is that either games should not require online validation everytime to play and should not require a patch to play, or they can, but this requirement must be removed before the servers go down.
@cleveland124 well, surveys are only as reliable as your sample group. people can lie or change their mind or go broke, etc.
PC and consoles are very separate ecosystems. steam has done nothing for the push of digital games on consoles. xbox had download games, but it came late in it's gen if I recall correctly, and didn't really push it, just had it... though as a non xbox player, don't know to well.
wiiU was the first nintendo home console to have retail downloads, right? don't recall any on the wii. PS3 didn't have much of a eshop until their console started picking up steam, about 2 years after release?
and I'm pretty sure console gamers mostly avoid steam because gaming on a computer takes some technical know-how, even to know if you can play a game on your machine! consoles are convenient because you don't have to worry about compatibility. you can pc game without steam, right?
@TheRealThanos I was referring to the removal of wifi in the red wii's are removal of things in new hardware, I think it's just a new version with different stuff made to be affordable, like how the 2ds has no 3D, except it's like the entire ps3 line.
anyway, the point I'm making is that with an example like splatoon. say you buy it today physically and I buy it today digitally. 30 years from now, I probably won't be able to redownload it, and you'd be likely hardpressed to find a reasonably priced copy out in the wild. So long as you maintain the disc itself, you can always just find a wiiU in the wild if your console breaks down and play the game in the future. my claim is that if I buy it digitally, so long as I maintain my console for 30 years, I can still play my game. essentially, the console itself is my physical copy, except it's a physical copy of many games at once.
regardless of whether it's a physical or digital copy though, it's doubtful that either of us can play online multiplayer in that game, and even if nintendo left the servers up anyway, no one else would be playing. we can both enjoy the single player and co-op modes.
sure, there are games that require online verification every time, and i don't buy those games. not physically, nor digitally. I vote with my wallet.
and I do think I CAN redownload my digital game 30 years down the line... it's definitely possible, but if the data will still be there to be redownloaded at a later date is up in the air. I don't think it really costs the company much to store the games, as data gets cheaper and games get larger and larger, the relative size of older games will be minor. servers do take up physical space, and data may be lost with time, but it's possible that they will just keep the games available for at least 20 years?
steam though, I'm sure I'll be able to redownload my steam games from 5 years ago 15 years from now... but when gabe croaks or retires, who knows what direction things will go in.
I can also back up my digital copes of games and restore them later down the road and make several redundant copies... though you can also do that with physical games too...
@cleveland124 That's a risky venture, making both flavors, not knowing what demand for either or would be... though it would be similar to their 2ds idea.
2 full generations? Wii focused on virtual console games, and psn didn't really push until later in the consoles life. WiiU has retail digital games, slowly catching up to the others, while ps4 and xbone are still relatively new.
Sony and microsoft are doing pretty well with digital discounts as of recently, and sony tried to push digital with the pspgo I suppose.
I wouldn't say there have been any strong pushes towards downloads, mostly just nudges.
@spemanig The cards exist to avoid stock issues! That was the point of cards! Bowser jr was one of the recent releases, should have been plenty of him!
Warioware was "just a spinoff". I also understand where you come from with prime being a step in the wrong direction. I do like the game, but I consider it a different series from 2D metroid.
Also, I like overcompensating for memory, rather have way more than I need!
@spemanig When did they address the stock issue? Why can't I find any amiibo cards for my girl anywhere? Where are the metaknights? I have yet to see bowser jr. Where are the stock issue addressings?
Well, they're telling us that they know what's best for us, and we should shut up and consume. Federation force being good is like the worst knews for metroid fans! Y'know, I like the wario land games, but am not particularly fond of warioware... guess which one performs better and which one we'll never see again?
Still, the 3ds has plenty of digital only games. I would think that if the darn thing will bother me to check out games on the eshop, they'd make sure higher capacity sd cards were compatible! Tell me to go check out the games in retail stores instead then!
@TheRealThanos Kinda the same, but what you're suggesting through online is for content already on a console to be modified, while dropping backwards compatibility in newer modrks doesn't effect owners of previous models. Would you say nintendo removed online from the wii?
Again, this whole while it's supported thing confuses me. Are the psp, wii, and dsi still supported? When they are not, are you suggesting my games will vanish? I don't think you are, but about them not being downloadable later, if I maintain my unit and memory device, I can have those games forever like you maintaining discs and carts.
As for online centric games, physical versions are unplayable too when support is dropped, right? Take splatoon for example. When nintendo stops supporting that game in the future, whst advantage does the physical version have over the digital in terms of playing the game?
@PlywoodStick I think the vita has game carts though. Sony's proprietary memorysticks are expensive, but the real reason vita failed is essentially the same reason wiiU is failing. Lack of games and 3rd party support.
Due to the lack of popularity of it's predecessor, and cost of producing games. The ds and 3ds were far cheaper to produce games for with a larger user base.
They also told us there wouldn't be stock issue with amiibo, and to trust them with federation force. Nintendo wants us to please understand that they don't understand.
When it comes to nintendo, I prefer to remain skeptical, well, really of any japanese company, and be pleasantly surprised when they prove me wrong.
Why aren't new 3ds' s compatible with sdxc cards without formatting them?
@TheRealThanos Well, that wasn't really removed... not from consoles that had it. And all ps3's are backwards compatible... with psone games...
Only ps2 compatibility was dropped to reduce cost or something... though you can buy ps2 classics... not sure what the issue is there, but they didn't remove it from consoles that had it, but simply did not include it in future consoles
@spemanig And what about 8gb and an upgraded 32gb wiiU says functional about nintendo? They're late to the party on most things modern, and they don't do it all yo well either. They have by far the worst sales of the three major consoles, they worst online experiences in first party major titles, worst 3rd party dlc experience on the wii. They make fun games... that's about it. Maybe the nx will play dvds finally?
@PlywoodStick Psp go isn't so great an example. It was another psp that couldn't play umd's, which were psp games. I mean, playing nuts outside wasn't all too popular as was, but a lot of titles aren't available digitally. Take an unpopular handheld and make an updated version not compatible with your current physical library? Shoot, I bought my psp for mega man powered up, but it's not even playable at all on the go!
If psp was digital only from the getgo, it would only suffer from the price of the memorysticks
@TheRealThanos I'm sure that if you pay for a license to install a game on your console, they would be hard pressed to win a case where they ruined your legally installed game for no viable reason. Sony was facing a class action for their online services being off... also potential loss of private information.
You have a license, and I'm sure no one but EA would consider randomly removing a game from your old hardware.
And ps3 removed free services that made pirating waaay too easy. Waay better than bricking the console I think.
But see, that's another of my points. Look what backlash did to the xbone. Why would microsoft destroy your digital copies of games and give you a reason to run to sony?
And, nah, in 5 years, we'll both be complaining about the streaming subscription only future!
@spemanig No, but a 50gb console would not surprise me when it comes to nintendo... they're like the special child in the console battle...
I mean they could just put registration codes in physical retail games, then gamers can get discounts on those indie digital games I suppose.
Steam caters to pc gamers. Many pc gamers don't console game and vice versa. The two different markets care about different things. What works for pc won't necessarily work for consoles, nor vice versa. I mean, if steam charged you a subscription fee to play online multiplayer, I'm sure that would not fly with the pc crowd, though it is flourishing on the xbone and ps4.
People who complain loudest about lack of trade ins are those who want every new release, but can't always afford it, so they trade in the ones they got in the last two months for this new one.
Essentially, it's a poor people issue... or those who aren't old enough to enter the workforce and refuse to mow lawns... or there aren't enough lawns for all
@spemanig hopefully the NX will have the space, or maybe it'll just be more external HDD friendly, don't overestimate nintendo.
also, the new rewards program would provide these rewards for physical games as well, no? I mean, I get 20% of retail games at bestbuy. I buy all digital, but it hurts to think I could be saving $12 on each game.
Nintendo is not good about sales either. there are occasional sales on 1st party games, but in both retail and digital, 1st party nintendo games rarely go down in price, and only used games offer any real savings aside from promotions like gamer's club unlocked from best buy.
trade-ins provide like next to nothing. people pay full price for a game on release and trade in like 10 games to get a new one for free! I mean, selling it yourself on ebay could be worthwhile, but takes time, money and energy anyway. selling used games usually doesn't yield much. I don't consider the trade-in value to be much of an issue.
@FlaygletheBagel well, it's not like nintendo really has games in the retail stores anyway... plus, less games leaves more space for the toys to life stuff.
@TheRealThanos Weren't there also physical games that require connections to play and to play online? I thought an assasin's creed game was like that?
Also, not just single player digi-games, just those that aren't online multiplayer.
And an update rendering a game unplayable? Sounds like a lawsuit, regardless of whether or not their ownership allows it, and sounds like a hefty class action one at that! Lawyers would be jumping all over that like when sony got hacked!
Just because they can do it, doesn't actually mean they can do it.
And on consoles, online multiplayer games become unplayable when the servers go down anyway, right? Didn't that happen to phantasy star online?
Yeah, I knew you'd go for the consumer not being passed the savings from no disk drive, and yeah, that's probably true, but once they make enough profit, they can afford price cuts, so for those like me who are willing to wait, price cuts come sooner!
Yeah, you just summed up my summation. Digital is about efficiency. It's convenient! Physical is more private with personal resales snd second hand copies and no ties to an account (as far as I know). Physical also appeals to collectors/hoarders/scalpers
@Kirk While true, digital can put the ball in their court, we still vote with our wallets. Just look at the xbone since first being announced. Doing something outrageous with that control is essentially financial suicide.
Besides, steam machines come out next month, steam does digital rather well, and should provide enough competition to incentivise other eshops to improve. In a digital only future, digital distribution stlye would become a major deciding factor in deciding whose console to upgrade to.
Shoot, backwards compatibility is already a major factor to many as is.
@cleveland124 What the arguement boils down to is collectors and trade-iners feeling their way of life being threatened by things going all digital, and attempting to sway the masses in their favor. Not that they're wrong for doing so, they want to fight for what they care about.
Some like therealthanos seem to not trust the licenses and believe content may be ripped away from them in the future, and are arguing to prevent the ignorant masses from forcing them into an undesirable position.
The digital enthusiasts wish to accellerate towards a digital only future so that it can grow and evolve through competition into something grand.
Everyone is attempting to sway public oppinion, because there are likely more readers than commenters, and while for example, I'll never sway thanos' s view, undecided readers may see sense in my arguments and decide to try digital for retail. Same goes for the otherside as well.
@Vineleaf Shops would evolve, and they can always make second life style eshops, imagine that combined with vr tech?
Simple example for wiiU, design a digital physical store that you navigate with the gamepad, use gyroscope to look around, analog stick to move, and touch screen to look at games.
@cleveland124 There's certainly a difference between assuming and knowing. It's likely that every console will have a zelda game, true, but that was also the case with kirby until gamecube, and f-zero until the wii, metroid until the n64, etc.
You get a lot more people buying the console along with the game upon release.
That and windwaker was one of those zelda games that divided the fanbase, not to big a draw for the wiiU. An hd port of ocarina of time for wiiU would have really moved units! Or even mario 64
@TheRealThanos But does xbox allow you to buy one copy of a game and play on two consoles at a time? It must have some pro the other consoles don't.
What do you exactly mean by ownership? I mean, my ps3 is full of digital downloads, as well as my psp, and I'm sure I can play them until my consoles or memory devices fail.
As for things no longer supported, the dlc for marvel ultimate alliance 2 was pulled long ago, but I can still redownload it onto new consoles though it is no longer offered in the store.
I don't think sony can take away my games on those consoles, and seeing how I don't even need to sign in to play any of them (Though there are games that do, like bionic commando re-armed 2), they are mine to keep.
Cost of the reader, cost of installation, cost of material to make the housing bigger to accommodate it, cost of programming to interface with reader (possibly?), added weight adding to shipping cost. Hey, if I could get my console for $20 cheaper because I prefer digital, heck yeah! It would also probably use less electricity I suppose.
Digital is more efficient, physical is more private and great for hoarders.
@TheRealThanos Fact of the matter is, ownership is a big deal... to those who care about that issue. Not everyone cares so much about long term ownership. And 1st parties would have to be crazy to do something that will cause massive backlash.
And for most of digital's pros, most are potential. Digital distribution makes things possible. Steam currently does the best job, and I'm personally hoping that steam machines will bring about change in how consoles do digital.
Everyone does certain things right. As far as I know, digital nintendo console games require no internet to run, only to download. With sony, I can buy one digital game, and if I own 2 playstation 3's, I can play with another person on two tv's with one copy of the game, because they give you two liscenses, and used to give 3. Not familiar with xbox consoles though, nor ps4.
I'm pretty sure so long as I maintain my sd card gor my 3ds, I can still play the games downloaded for decades, though may not be able to redownload in case of corruption or loss.
Again, digital distribution has great potential. I would prefer digital distribution dominated market, with the option to order physical versions that will be produced a month later after orders close, like how I suggested special edition swag could work. As many as are demanded would be produced, though one would have to wait. It satisfies ownership enthusiasts and collectors alike.
I'm also sure that removing physical media readers such as disk readers would make consoles cheaper to produce, though sd card readers would be necessary anyway. Though could make protected sd cards that will sync to a console and download the game to the console.
@TheRealThanos Except I did cover that pro, with the ability to sell/lend/trade, thus covering ownership, and being able to play it 50 years down the line.
Also, I said faction, though it would be more correct as 4 factions: collectors, those without internet, those who prefer to resell/trade in old games, and those who plan on playing "today's" games 50 years from now.
For those who want to play the newest and current games, and don't even have time for that, digital is somewhat superior.
Furthermore, not all digital games require online connections for single player. Digital distribution has the potential, but it is early and not as competitive yet to really provide the optimal form.
I did read your previous comment, also, another pro of digital, easier to provide backwards compatibility. Whereas when physical media changes form, it becomes difficult to make compatible with new hardware. If next gen consoles ditch disks for cards, you have to hold on to the ever more complex and sensitive consoles to play older games. Consoles these days have higher failure rates.
Physical seems to work best for collectors, scalpers, and folks without dependable internet.
Special editions are a non-issue, because the special swag can simply given as a special offer to those who buy the game within a certain time period, offering a code or registration to find the offer. Then, they can just produce what they need, and mail it to those who ordered after the offer period expires.
It would reduce the risk of producing the swag, and encourage more offers of that nature.
Digital only is healthier for the industry, physical is only really useful for a faction of consumers.
The advantages of physical media are: -you can trade/sell/lend your games -overstocked physical copies can become super cheap. -physical games in store are visible, and can attract browsers and bowsers alike. -physical games will be playable 50 years down the road. -no internet connection is required. -unpatched versions of games are playable
Digital though has plenty of advantages, mostly for producers, which helps as the industry becomes riskier and riskier to invest in: -no cost to produce physical components, and servers are cheap. -no losses in overproduction nor outcry from underproduction. -games do not become rare, and thus doubling in original price. -no out of stock issues -no need to swap games out -easier to transport entire game library -no waiting in line at retailers (though with high traffic, you may wait just as long for the download, but have the convenience of being at home.) -account linking makes it possible to play games on any console anywhere, though implemented differently by 1st parties. -you can't misplace a digital copy, nor can someone steal it. -games can be readily available 50 years down the road.
I would like to know how digital sales are. I pretty much buy exclusively digital outside of mega man titles with physical releases, but would buy a digital copy too if available. So much more convenient than switching out disks and carrying a library of games around when travelling
@Olmectron Except that's different. Melee vs brawl are arguing for the better version of the same game.
This is saying that this game is hardly a pokemon experience, thus a bad introduction to the series, that is one complete point.
Then it makes another point that it is a shoddy fighting game, and should not be desired on it's merits as a fighting game, which only leaves it's merit as a pokemon game to consider.
In essence, it's a bad spinoff, and a bad way to experience pokemon
@Olmectron seriously though, where and from what did you come up with this conclusion? when did anyone argue that one should play the original retro game? the issue was that pokken is a poor man's fighting game made to profit off pokemon fans, and that it's a sad introduction to pokemon. pokemon whatever the newest version out is just fine, even shuffle, because it's a solid puzzle game. no one ever criticized liking new nintendo games.
@Olmectron exactly, because that's exactly what I'm claiming. Smash U is completely different from every other iteration and has pretty much no common ground. it's also so shoddy a party fighter that no one should want it for that reason at all. I can infer from your post that you are not a fan of mario, zelda, mega man, fire emblem, kirby, ... , pokemon, duck hunt nor the game and watch series... so yeah, you should definitely be ashamed for starting with what most definitely isn't the most current in a series of updated versions of the original game... for shame.
@MegaBeedrill I mean, he mostly bashed the game itself as a fighter, and only bashed the OP by calling him a young modern gamer playing games for the coolness. that part wasn't right, but that's not what everyone is getting up in arms for. the OP defended himself well on this point, embarassing kirk in the process, but that's not the part everyone seems to care about.
regardless of whether other M was good to some or not, the fact is, it divided the fanbase drastically. no game in a series should do that. Prime itself divided the fanbase a little from the 2D metroid fans and 3D metroid fans, but no huge division, and at least the story quality was preserved. other M divided up fans further with gameplay and defecated on the storyline. it was a mistake of a game and would have been more appropriate as a new series. regardless of whether some people liked it, it was bad for the series as a whole.
Also, as I've stated before, people are allowed to like bad games.
@kamifox1 you played a demo of a 3D fighter and enjoyed it, you got it because it was an enjoyable 3D fighter. you may not realize it was a genre itself at the time, but you liked the mechanics which are defined by the genre. when I say you get a game because it's a 3D fighter, it's not the name of the genre itself that appeals, but the mechanics associated with the genre. you liked it as a 3D fighter, and that's why you got it.
are you suggesting someone would physically harm kirk for criticizing their game choice? that's just bonkers right there. compared to that, kirk's reaction is perfectly tame!
anyway, yes, he does have a right to criticize the gaming choice, and those who don't like sonic and want to start with those two games, I would tell them not too, because they're poor representations that could turn them off the series completely or make those games popular enough to replace the main series, ala warioware.
and furthermore, from the version I read of his post, he seemed more critical of the game and of the experience provided by it than of the OP.
@MegaBeedrill The OP didn't express an opinion, he bashed the statement, not an opinion. in summary: OP says this is going to be his first pokemon game. Kirk says that it's pathetic to be introduced to pokemon this way, then accuses the OP of getting this game just because it's a fighting game, which turned out to be true. then kirk criticizes him for wanting this game as a fighter even though it is a shoddy fighter, which is kirk's current opinion and assumption.
Then he accuses the OP of being a young modern gamer that just gets the game for appearance rather than content. that may have been a little bit offensive I suppose, but he's obviously just ranting about the state of gaming today and his view of those kind of gamers. nothing to be taken personally.
I did say you guys are entitled to criticize his criticism, did I not? but the mob is forming for a completely different reason. the first few defensive comments were civil, then people just wanted to bash him for offending a non-existant opinion! just look at his discourse with @Fazermint! the guy basically sums up his statement as "fact and logic? I just wanted to be a jackass and call you a jackass!". that's the problem here. people just want to jump to the winning side and blast someone.
Also, hyrule warriors is made by the creators of dynasty warriors, and IS dynasty warriors, albeit a lite version with zelda skins, but it is the same game.
Pokken is made by the makers of tekken, but is not a re-skinned tekken, but appears to be more along the lines of naruto games... though I have no idea who made those off the top of my head, but they are generally considered a bad game. if we were presented with a tekken clone with pokemon skins, then that'd be a different story, but the game doesn't seem to flow that way, just from the camera angles alone it doesn't seem to play like tekken. haven't seen much of the game myself though, and not particularly interested in it, but I got the impression from what I've seen that it's a naruto clone.
also, never doubt a companies ability to screw up a game! especially one that has star power. let other M be a lesson to all.
@kamifox1 if you didn't like ninja gaiden or tits (lies, EVERYONE likes tits, regardless of gender or sexuality, they're just magic), they you obviously played it because it was a 3D fighter, and a rather good one.
Dragon ball Z games, depending on the game provide an interesting fighting game experience not found in other games really, so you're not playing it for the dragon ball z, you're playing it for the unique fighting game experience.
furthermore, there's a difference in playing them, and getting excited and starting a series for a game. you like blazblue but hate 2D fighters, though liking blazblue means you like 2D fighters, just not all, but anyway, you are generally not a fan of 2D fighters, so when blazblue was coming out for the first time, you would not be expected to want it, or say "this will be my first 2D fighter", nor would that be overly criticized because it appears to be a well done 2D fighter similar to guilty gear, made by the same people.
street fighter was on the arcade, it has depth, also, fighters come to consoles and have depth, we're talking about a console release here. what's wrong with the gameplay footage shown depends on the viewer. some see it and assume it's like naruto which is a pretty shoddy fighter, basically just for naruto fans. some see it and assume it's like naruto, and they happen to like the naruto fighting game because they like bad fighting games (I enjoyed mega man X6... people are allowed to like bad games). the point is, kirk is on the side assuming it's shoddy, thus not a valid reason to desire this as one's first pokemon game.
if someone says that to me for getting excited in a game I have no business being excited about, I defend my reason, not call the guy a jerk for insulting my opinion, even though I stated no opinion. the fact that eveyone is defending the OP's opinion of "this will be my first pokemon game ever!" shows that they have no idea what's going on and just want to form a mob!
he's aggressive about it, because he's passionate about pokemon. to see someone's introduction to pokemon being this is insulting to him. it's understandable. he may be wrong in his stance, but being wrong doesn't make you a jerk.
@kamifox1 As a warioland fan, there is certainly harm in liking a spinoff without playing the main series. That's why there are only warioware games being made and no classic wario amiibo. No harm indeed.
@kamifox1 Not being a pokemon fan isn't so much an issue, but that it would mean that they are not interested in the game as a pokemon fan, which is the type of person this game targets.
So this and the appearance of the game being a shoddy fighter means that he doesn't really have a good reason to want the game.
Him wanting the game isn't being criticized, the fact that "this is his first pokemon game" is, because it emphasizes that pokemon itself is the important aspect of this game but also shows that he is not a fan of the series.
It's almost like saying "I am buying this game because it's pokemon, but I'm not a pokemon fan".
Though kirk is assuming another insinuation, that if pokemon isn't the primary reason for the appeal, then it's merit as a fighting game is, which he believes it has none of.
Sure, people can play whatever they want. They can also eat glue and pour bleach on their eyes. Doesn't make it a good idea, and I will certainly step up and be the bad guy and tell people that I think it's a bad idea.
@kamifox1 And one would assume that you play dead or alive either because you like 3D fighters (it can be played non button mashy), you like ninja gaiden, or you like tits, or any combination of the three. It does very well in all three departments.
But pokken is being assumed to be a shoddy fighter at the moment, and I'm sure most anime style games you've played have at least one character from an anime you like.
Take battle stadium D.O.N., no one who is not a fan of naruto, dragon ball z, nor one piece has any business playing that. It's not a good game! This is what is being assumed of pokken.
And you can't argue that we don't know if the game is good or not, because people will look and make assumptions until they actually play it, only natural.
@Tsusasi It looks like naruto, so many will assume that it isn't good, though the argument isn't so much that it's bad, but it doesn't measure up to other fighting games, so wanting it as a fighting game in and of itself doesn't make much sense.
It also has pokemon characters, which would appeal to pokemon fans, so if it's one's first pokemon game, it's likely that that one is not a pokemon fan
@MegaBeedrill One is entitled to play whatever he wants. Another is entitled to criticize one's motivations for doing so. Yet another is entitled to criticize anothers criticism.
Entitlement has nothing to do with anything. Seems like people are misconstruing what kirk said far beyond what he actually said and are forming a mob for the hell of it.
Big difference between hyrule warriors and pokken. Hyrule warriors is made by the makers of dynasty warriors, so one can assume it'll be of a quality just as good as dynasty warriors. It's an odd place to jump into the zelda franchise, and if you enjoy the game, you're probably better off playing other dynasty warrior games. If you like the story, then you'd probably enjoy zelda fan-fiction.
Pokken, looks like a naruto game knockoff with pokemon, so as far as fighting games go, it is assumed it won't have much in the way of balance nor depth. I may not turn out that way, but appears to be that kind of game.
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Re: Dry Bowser and Bowser Jr. will be in Mario Tennis: Ultra Smash
Hopefully that means more jr amiibo, and maybe a dry bowser amiibo
Re: Reaction: Nintendo's First Mobile App, Miitomo, Targets the Lucrative Depths of the Blue Ocean
@Shiek
Wasn't it stated that the new nintendo account will be compatible with facebook and goohle accounts?
Re: Reaction: Nintendo's First Mobile App, Miitomo, Targets the Lucrative Depths of the Blue Ocean
If they make it a mobile phone version of street pass plaza, I'm game. All the street pass games can pretty much be played on the phone, thought mii force and the zombie game would be annoying.
Amiibo unlocked costume pieces would be awesome too!
Hopefully this brings us more mii customization options! I want red hair and eyes!
Re: Nintendo and DeNA Smart Device Game Details Coming on 29th October, With Investors Demanding Specifics
I want mario is missing mobile, loved that game on PC!
Re: Editorial: It's Far Too Soon to Go Download-Only, and Physical Retail Still Matters
@TheRealThanos
The thing is, I'm assuming that there are different servers for storing games to be downloaded, and to be used by the actual games. The servers used for the actual game like for online multiplayer are irrelevant here because they effect physical copies the same way as digital copies.
Triple A titles two gens ago were under a GB, and was a decent size for back then in early 2000's, but now is nothing. Last gen, aside from nintendo, games were about 10 to 20 gb. In 2006, it might have been a bit, but now 3TB is normal. What I'm asserting is that to keep these titles on the online stores in the future will be effortless, because size of the entire library of digital titles from previous consoles will likely be comparable to a triple A title.
Though the profitability argument is rather sound, they may discontinue them on purpose so you buy the newest console... but that would likely piss off digital collector consumers and win rivals who keep old games available for redownload more fans.
I love my ps3 and all it's games. I have loads of digital games, but the ps4 is not compatible with those games. That coupled with paying to play online is why I will not buy a ps4... unless they get a mega man game exclusive... but seeing how ps4 is more like a pc hardware wise, it's digital titles may end up playable on the ps5.
I think it all will boil down to how consumers vote with their wallet and how much we complain when they try to pull those kind of stunts, like when microsoft first introduced the xbone
Re: Editorial: It's Far Too Soon to Go Download-Only, and Physical Retail Still Matters
@TheRealThanos
Well, considering how all of nintendo's eshop titles can probably fir on a terrabyte harddrive, it wouldn't be hard to keep these games on their servers and move them to the next server they get to replace them, especially as memory keeps getting cheaper.
And those examples of games being removed were from the beginning of digital distribution, as it becomes the norm, these issues will become that which the consumer cares about. I believe that in the near future, that issue will be addressed, probably starting with movies.
So, while personally, I don't expect to be able to redownload in 20 years (who knows if today's consoles will even work with 20 years from now tv's!), there is a possibility that I may be able to as digital distribution becomes the norm and evolves.
Aside from that, we basically agree on everything. I don't buy games that require online validation everytime I play except on steam. What matters is that either games should not require online validation everytime to play and should not require a patch to play, or they can, but this requirement must be removed before the servers go down.
Re: Editorial: It's Far Too Soon to Go Download-Only, and Physical Retail Still Matters
@cleveland124
well, surveys are only as reliable as your sample group. people can lie or change their mind or go broke, etc.
PC and consoles are very separate ecosystems. steam has done nothing for the push of digital games on consoles. xbox had download games, but it came late in it's gen if I recall correctly, and didn't really push it, just had it... though as a non xbox player, don't know to well.
wiiU was the first nintendo home console to have retail downloads, right? don't recall any on the wii. PS3 didn't have much of a eshop until their console started picking up steam, about 2 years after release?
and I'm pretty sure console gamers mostly avoid steam because gaming on a computer takes some technical know-how, even to know if you can play a game on your machine! consoles are convenient because you don't have to worry about compatibility. you can pc game without steam, right?
Re: Editorial: It's Far Too Soon to Go Download-Only, and Physical Retail Still Matters
@TheRealThanos
I was referring to the removal of wifi in the red wii's are removal of things in new hardware, I think it's just a new version with different stuff made to be affordable, like how the 2ds has no 3D, except it's like the entire ps3 line.
anyway, the point I'm making is that with an example like splatoon. say you buy it today physically and I buy it today digitally. 30 years from now, I probably won't be able to redownload it, and you'd be likely hardpressed to find a reasonably priced copy out in the wild. So long as you maintain the disc itself, you can always just find a wiiU in the wild if your console breaks down and play the game in the future. my claim is that if I buy it digitally, so long as I maintain my console for 30 years, I can still play my game. essentially, the console itself is my physical copy, except it's a physical copy of many games at once.
regardless of whether it's a physical or digital copy though, it's doubtful that either of us can play online multiplayer in that game, and even if nintendo left the servers up anyway, no one else would be playing. we can both enjoy the single player and co-op modes.
sure, there are games that require online verification every time, and i don't buy those games. not physically, nor digitally. I vote with my wallet.
and I do think I CAN redownload my digital game 30 years down the line... it's definitely possible, but if the data will still be there to be redownloaded at a later date is up in the air. I don't think it really costs the company much to store the games, as data gets cheaper and games get larger and larger, the relative size of older games will be minor. servers do take up physical space, and data may be lost with time, but it's possible that they will just keep the games available for at least 20 years?
steam though, I'm sure I'll be able to redownload my steam games from 5 years ago 15 years from now... but when gabe croaks or retires, who knows what direction things will go in.
I can also back up my digital copes of games and restore them later down the road and make several redundant copies... though you can also do that with physical games too...
Re: Editorial: It's Far Too Soon to Go Download-Only, and Physical Retail Still Matters
@cleveland124
That's a risky venture, making both flavors, not knowing what demand for either or would be... though it would be similar to their 2ds idea.
2 full generations? Wii focused on virtual console games, and psn didn't really push until later in the consoles life. WiiU has retail digital games, slowly catching up to the others, while ps4 and xbone are still relatively new.
Sony and microsoft are doing pretty well with digital discounts as of recently, and sony tried to push digital with the pspgo I suppose.
I wouldn't say there have been any strong pushes towards downloads, mostly just nudges.
Re: Editorial: It's Far Too Soon to Go Download-Only, and Physical Retail Still Matters
@spemanig
The cards exist to avoid stock issues! That was the point of cards! Bowser jr was one of the recent releases, should have been plenty of him!
Warioware was "just a spinoff". I also understand where you come from with prime being a step in the wrong direction. I do like the game, but I consider it a different series from 2D metroid.
Also, I like overcompensating for memory, rather have way more than I need!
Re: Editorial: It's Far Too Soon to Go Download-Only, and Physical Retail Still Matters
@spemanig
When did they address the stock issue? Why can't I find any amiibo cards for my girl anywhere? Where are the metaknights? I have yet to see bowser jr. Where are the stock issue addressings?
Well, they're telling us that they know what's best for us, and we should shut up and consume. Federation force being good is like the worst knews for metroid fans! Y'know, I like the wario land games, but am not particularly fond of warioware... guess which one performs better and which one we'll never see again?
Still, the 3ds has plenty of digital only games. I would think that if the darn thing will bother me to check out games on the eshop, they'd make sure higher capacity sd cards were compatible! Tell me to go check out the games in retail stores instead then!
Re: Editorial: It's Far Too Soon to Go Download-Only, and Physical Retail Still Matters
@TheRealThanos
Kinda the same, but what you're suggesting through online is for content already on a console to be modified, while dropping backwards compatibility in newer modrks doesn't effect owners of previous models. Would you say nintendo removed online from the wii?
Again, this whole while it's supported thing confuses me. Are the psp, wii, and dsi still supported? When they are not, are you suggesting my games will vanish? I don't think you are, but about them not being downloadable later, if I maintain my unit and memory device, I can have those games forever like you maintaining discs and carts.
As for online centric games, physical versions are unplayable too when support is dropped, right? Take splatoon for example. When nintendo stops supporting that game in the future, whst advantage does the physical version have over the digital in terms of playing the game?
Re: Editorial: It's Far Too Soon to Go Download-Only, and Physical Retail Still Matters
@PlywoodStick
I think the vita has game carts though. Sony's proprietary memorysticks are expensive, but the real reason vita failed is essentially the same reason wiiU is failing. Lack of games and 3rd party support.
Due to the lack of popularity of it's predecessor, and cost of producing games. The ds and 3ds were far cheaper to produce games for with a larger user base.
Re: Editorial: It's Far Too Soon to Go Download-Only, and Physical Retail Still Matters
@spemanig
Yeah, dvd's was a joke.
They also told us there wouldn't be stock issue with amiibo, and to trust them with federation force. Nintendo wants us to please understand that they don't understand.
When it comes to nintendo, I prefer to remain skeptical, well, really of any japanese company, and be pleasantly surprised when they prove me wrong.
Why aren't new 3ds' s compatible with sdxc cards without formatting them?
Re: Editorial: It's Far Too Soon to Go Download-Only, and Physical Retail Still Matters
@TheRealThanos
Well, that wasn't really removed... not from consoles that had it. And all ps3's are backwards compatible... with psone games...
Only ps2 compatibility was dropped to reduce cost or something... though you can buy ps2 classics... not sure what the issue is there, but they didn't remove it from consoles that had it, but simply did not include it in future consoles
Re: Editorial: It's Far Too Soon to Go Download-Only, and Physical Retail Still Matters
@spemanig
And what about 8gb and an upgraded 32gb wiiU says functional about nintendo? They're late to the party on most things modern, and they don't do it all yo well either. They have by far the worst sales of the three major consoles, they worst online experiences in first party major titles, worst 3rd party dlc experience on the wii. They make fun games... that's about it. Maybe the nx will play dvds finally?
Re: Editorial: It's Far Too Soon to Go Download-Only, and Physical Retail Still Matters
@PlywoodStick
Psp go isn't so great an example. It was another psp that couldn't play umd's, which were psp games. I mean, playing nuts outside wasn't all too popular as was, but a lot of titles aren't available digitally. Take an unpopular handheld and make an updated version not compatible with your current physical library? Shoot, I bought my psp for mega man powered up, but it's not even playable at all on the go!
If psp was digital only from the getgo, it would only suffer from the price of the memorysticks
Re: Editorial: It's Far Too Soon to Go Download-Only, and Physical Retail Still Matters
@TheRealThanos
I'm sure that if you pay for a license to install a game on your console, they would be hard pressed to win a case where they ruined your legally installed game for no viable reason. Sony was facing a class action for their online services being off... also potential loss of private information.
You have a license, and I'm sure no one but EA would consider randomly removing a game from your old hardware.
And ps3 removed free services that made pirating waaay too easy. Waay better than bricking the console I think.
But see, that's another of my points. Look what backlash did to the xbone. Why would microsoft destroy your digital copies of games and give you a reason to run to sony?
And, nah, in 5 years, we'll both be complaining about the streaming subscription only future!
Re: Editorial: It's Far Too Soon to Go Download-Only, and Physical Retail Still Matters
@spemanig
No, but a 50gb console would not surprise me when it comes to nintendo... they're like the special child in the console battle...
I mean they could just put registration codes in physical retail games, then gamers can get discounts on those indie digital games I suppose.
Steam caters to pc gamers. Many pc gamers don't console game and vice versa. The two different markets care about different things. What works for pc won't necessarily work for consoles, nor vice versa. I mean, if steam charged you a subscription fee to play online multiplayer, I'm sure that would not fly with the pc crowd, though it is flourishing on the xbone and ps4.
People who complain loudest about lack of trade ins are those who want every new release, but can't always afford it, so they trade in the ones they got in the last two months for this new one.
Essentially, it's a poor people issue... or those who aren't old enough to enter the workforce and refuse to mow lawns... or there aren't enough lawns for all
Re: Editorial: It's Far Too Soon to Go Download-Only, and Physical Retail Still Matters
@spemanig
hopefully the NX will have the space, or maybe it'll just be more external HDD friendly, don't overestimate nintendo.
also, the new rewards program would provide these rewards for physical games as well, no? I mean, I get 20% of retail games at bestbuy. I buy all digital, but it hurts to think I could be saving $12 on each game.
Nintendo is not good about sales either. there are occasional sales on 1st party games, but in both retail and digital, 1st party nintendo games rarely go down in price, and only used games offer any real savings aside from promotions like gamer's club unlocked from best buy.
trade-ins provide like next to nothing. people pay full price for a game on release and trade in like 10 games to get a new one for free! I mean, selling it yourself on ebay could be worthwhile, but takes time, money and energy anyway. selling used games usually doesn't yield much. I don't consider the trade-in value to be much of an issue.
Re: Editorial: It's Far Too Soon to Go Download-Only, and Physical Retail Still Matters
@FlaygletheBagel
well, it's not like nintendo really has games in the retail stores anyway... plus, less games leaves more space for the toys to life stuff.
Re: Editorial: It's Far Too Soon to Go Download-Only, and Physical Retail Still Matters
@TheRealThanos
Weren't there also physical games that require connections to play and to play online? I thought an assasin's creed game was like that?
Also, not just single player digi-games, just those that aren't online multiplayer.
And an update rendering a game unplayable? Sounds like a lawsuit, regardless of whether or not their ownership allows it, and sounds like a hefty class action one at that! Lawyers would be jumping all over that like when sony got hacked!
Just because they can do it, doesn't actually mean they can do it.
And on consoles, online multiplayer games become unplayable when the servers go down anyway, right? Didn't that happen to phantasy star online?
Yeah, I knew you'd go for the consumer not being passed the savings from no disk drive, and yeah, that's probably true, but once they make enough profit, they can afford price cuts, so for those like me who are willing to wait, price cuts come sooner!
Yeah, you just summed up my summation. Digital is about efficiency. It's convenient! Physical is more private with personal resales snd second hand copies and no ties to an account (as far as I know). Physical also appeals to collectors/hoarders/scalpers
Re: Editorial: It's Far Too Soon to Go Download-Only, and Physical Retail Still Matters
@Kirk
While true, digital can put the ball in their court, we still vote with our wallets. Just look at the xbone since first being announced. Doing something outrageous with that control is essentially financial suicide.
Besides, steam machines come out next month, steam does digital rather well, and should provide enough competition to incentivise other eshops to improve. In a digital only future, digital distribution stlye would become a major deciding factor in deciding whose console to upgrade to.
Shoot, backwards compatibility is already a major factor to many as is.
Re: Editorial: It's Far Too Soon to Go Download-Only, and Physical Retail Still Matters
@cleveland124
What the arguement boils down to is collectors and trade-iners feeling their way of life being threatened by things going all digital, and attempting to sway the masses in their favor. Not that they're wrong for doing so, they want to fight for what they care about.
Some like therealthanos seem to not trust the licenses and believe content may be ripped away from them in the future, and are arguing to prevent the ignorant masses from forcing them into an undesirable position.
The digital enthusiasts wish to accellerate towards a digital only future so that it can grow and evolve through competition into something grand.
Everyone is attempting to sway public oppinion, because there are likely more readers than commenters, and while for example, I'll never sway thanos' s view, undecided readers may see sense in my arguments and decide to try digital for retail. Same goes for the otherside as well.
Re: Editorial: It's Far Too Soon to Go Download-Only, and Physical Retail Still Matters
@Vineleaf
Shops would evolve, and they can always make second life style eshops, imagine that combined with vr tech?
Simple example for wiiU, design a digital physical store that you navigate with the gamepad, use gyroscope to look around, analog stick to move, and touch screen to look at games.
Re: Editorial: It's Far Too Soon to Go Download-Only, and Physical Retail Still Matters
@cleveland124
There's certainly a difference between assuming and knowing. It's likely that every console will have a zelda game, true, but that was also the case with kirby until gamecube, and f-zero until the wii, metroid until the n64, etc.
You get a lot more people buying the console along with the game upon release.
That and windwaker was one of those zelda games that divided the fanbase, not to big a draw for the wiiU. An hd port of ocarina of time for wiiU would have really moved units! Or even mario 64
Re: Editorial: It's Far Too Soon to Go Download-Only, and Physical Retail Still Matters
@TheRealThanos
But does xbox allow you to buy one copy of a game and play on two consoles at a time? It must have some pro the other consoles don't.
What do you exactly mean by ownership? I mean, my ps3 is full of digital downloads, as well as my psp, and I'm sure I can play them until my consoles or memory devices fail.
As for things no longer supported, the dlc for marvel ultimate alliance 2 was pulled long ago, but I can still redownload it onto new consoles though it is no longer offered in the store.
I don't think sony can take away my games on those consoles, and seeing how I don't even need to sign in to play any of them (Though there are games that do, like bionic commando re-armed 2), they are mine to keep.
Cost of the reader, cost of installation, cost of material to make the housing bigger to accommodate it, cost of programming to interface with reader (possibly?), added weight adding to shipping cost. Hey, if I could get my console for $20 cheaper because I prefer digital, heck yeah! It would also probably use less electricity I suppose.
Digital is more efficient, physical is more private and great for hoarders.
Re: Editorial: It's Far Too Soon to Go Download-Only, and Physical Retail Still Matters
@electrolite77
Raise the price by ten rupees after each sale
Re: Editorial: It's Far Too Soon to Go Download-Only, and Physical Retail Still Matters
@cleveland124
To be fair, the wiiU really doesn't have it's own zelda game, just an hd port of a gamecube game
Re: Editorial: It's Far Too Soon to Go Download-Only, and Physical Retail Still Matters
@TheRealThanos
Fact of the matter is, ownership is a big deal... to those who care about that issue. Not everyone cares so much about long term ownership. And 1st parties would have to be crazy to do something that will cause massive backlash.
And for most of digital's pros, most are potential. Digital distribution makes things possible. Steam currently does the best job, and I'm personally hoping that steam machines will bring about change in how consoles do digital.
Everyone does certain things right. As far as I know, digital nintendo console games require no internet to run, only to download. With sony, I can buy one digital game, and if I own 2 playstation 3's, I can play with another person on two tv's with one copy of the game, because they give you two liscenses, and used to give 3. Not familiar with xbox consoles though, nor ps4.
I'm pretty sure so long as I maintain my sd card gor my 3ds, I can still play the games downloaded for decades, though may not be able to redownload in case of corruption or loss.
Again, digital distribution has great potential. I would prefer digital distribution dominated market, with the option to order physical versions that will be produced a month later after orders close, like how I suggested special edition swag could work. As many as are demanded would be produced, though one would have to wait. It satisfies ownership enthusiasts and collectors alike.
I'm also sure that removing physical media readers such as disk readers would make consoles cheaper to produce, though sd card readers would be necessary anyway. Though could make protected sd cards that will sync to a console and download the game to the console.
Re: Editorial: It's Far Too Soon to Go Download-Only, and Physical Retail Still Matters
@TheRealThanos
Except I did cover that pro, with the ability to sell/lend/trade, thus covering ownership, and being able to play it 50 years down the line.
Also, I said faction, though it would be more correct as 4 factions: collectors, those without internet, those who prefer to resell/trade in old games, and those who plan on playing "today's" games 50 years from now.
For those who want to play the newest and current games, and don't even have time for that, digital is somewhat superior.
Furthermore, not all digital games require online connections for single player. Digital distribution has the potential, but it is early and not as competitive yet to really provide the optimal form.
I did read your previous comment, also, another pro of digital, easier to provide backwards compatibility. Whereas when physical media changes form, it becomes difficult to make compatible with new hardware. If next gen consoles ditch disks for cards, you have to hold on to the ever more complex and sensitive consoles to play older games. Consoles these days have higher failure rates.
Re: Editorial: It's Far Too Soon to Go Download-Only, and Physical Retail Still Matters
Physical seems to work best for collectors, scalpers, and folks without dependable internet.
Special editions are a non-issue, because the special swag can simply given as a special offer to those who buy the game within a certain time period, offering a code or registration to find the offer. Then, they can just produce what they need, and mail it to those who ordered after the offer period expires.
It would reduce the risk of producing the swag, and encourage more offers of that nature.
Digital only is healthier for the industry, physical is only really useful for a faction of consumers.
Re: Editorial: It's Far Too Soon to Go Download-Only, and Physical Retail Still Matters
Digital distribution is better for the industry.
The advantages of physical media are:
-you can trade/sell/lend your games
-overstocked physical copies can become super cheap.
-physical games in store are visible, and can attract browsers and bowsers alike.
-physical games will be playable 50 years down the road.
-no internet connection is required.
-unpatched versions of games are playable
Digital though has plenty of advantages, mostly for producers, which helps as the industry becomes riskier and riskier to invest in:
-no cost to produce physical components, and servers are cheap.
-no losses in overproduction nor outcry from underproduction.
-games do not become rare, and thus doubling in original price.
-no out of stock issues
-no need to swap games out
-easier to transport entire game library
-no waiting in line at retailers (though with high traffic, you may wait just as long for the download, but have the convenience of being at home.)
-account linking makes it possible to play games on any console anywhere, though implemented differently by 1st parties.
-you can't misplace a digital copy, nor can someone steal it.
-games can be readily available 50 years down the road.
Re: Japan's Upcoming Splatfest is Between Love and Money
@Dezzy
Money leads to more devastating divorces
Re: Japan's Upcoming Splatfest is Between Love and Money
Neither will save the world. Love gets you nowhere and fades with time. Money fuels greed and is used selfishly. Both will lead the world to ruin
Re: Super Mario Maker Grabs Sixth Place in NPD US Results and Boosts Wii U System Sales By Over 100%
I would like to know how digital sales are. I pretty much buy exclusively digital outside of mega man titles with physical releases, but would buy a digital copy too if available. So much more convenient than switching out disks and carrying a library of games around when travelling
Re: Video: This Pokkén Tournament Commercial Should Provide a Timely Reminder of Wii U Release Hype
@Olmectron
Except that's different. Melee vs brawl are arguing for the better version of the same game.
This is saying that this game is hardly a pokemon experience, thus a bad introduction to the series, that is one complete point.
Then it makes another point that it is a shoddy fighting game, and should not be desired on it's merits as a fighting game, which only leaves it's merit as a pokemon game to consider.
In essence, it's a bad spinoff, and a bad way to experience pokemon
Re: Video: This Pokkén Tournament Commercial Should Provide a Timely Reminder of Wii U Release Hype
@Olmectron
seriously though, where and from what did you come up with this conclusion? when did anyone argue that one should play the original retro game? the issue was that pokken is a poor man's fighting game made to profit off pokemon fans, and that it's a sad introduction to pokemon. pokemon whatever the newest version out is just fine, even shuffle, because it's a solid puzzle game. no one ever criticized liking new nintendo games.
Re: Video: This Pokkén Tournament Commercial Should Provide a Timely Reminder of Wii U Release Hype
@Olmectron
Just fyi, forgot to add the sarcasm tag to my post.
Re: Video: This Pokkén Tournament Commercial Should Provide a Timely Reminder of Wii U Release Hype
@Olmectron
exactly, because that's exactly what I'm claiming. Smash U is completely different from every other iteration and has pretty much no common ground. it's also so shoddy a party fighter that no one should want it for that reason at all. I can infer from your post that you are not a fan of mario, zelda, mega man, fire emblem, kirby, ... , pokemon, duck hunt nor the game and watch series... so yeah, you should definitely be ashamed for starting with what most definitely isn't the most current in a series of updated versions of the original game... for shame.
Re: Video: This Pokkén Tournament Commercial Should Provide a Timely Reminder of Wii U Release Hype
@MegaBeedrill
I mean, he mostly bashed the game itself as a fighter, and only bashed the OP by calling him a young modern gamer playing games for the coolness. that part wasn't right, but that's not what everyone is getting up in arms for. the OP defended himself well on this point, embarassing kirk in the process, but that's not the part everyone seems to care about.
regardless of whether other M was good to some or not, the fact is, it divided the fanbase drastically. no game in a series should do that. Prime itself divided the fanbase a little from the 2D metroid fans and 3D metroid fans, but no huge division, and at least the story quality was preserved. other M divided up fans further with gameplay and defecated on the storyline. it was a mistake of a game and would have been more appropriate as a new series. regardless of whether some people liked it, it was bad for the series as a whole.
Also, as I've stated before, people are allowed to like bad games.
Re: Video: This Pokkén Tournament Commercial Should Provide a Timely Reminder of Wii U Release Hype
@kamifox1
you played a demo of a 3D fighter and enjoyed it, you got it because it was an enjoyable 3D fighter. you may not realize it was a genre itself at the time, but you liked the mechanics which are defined by the genre. when I say you get a game because it's a 3D fighter, it's not the name of the genre itself that appeals, but the mechanics associated with the genre. you liked it as a 3D fighter, and that's why you got it.
are you suggesting someone would physically harm kirk for criticizing their game choice? that's just bonkers right there. compared to that, kirk's reaction is perfectly tame!
anyway, yes, he does have a right to criticize the gaming choice, and those who don't like sonic and want to start with those two games, I would tell them not too, because they're poor representations that could turn them off the series completely or make those games popular enough to replace the main series, ala warioware.
and furthermore, from the version I read of his post, he seemed more critical of the game and of the experience provided by it than of the OP.
Re: Video: This Pokkén Tournament Commercial Should Provide a Timely Reminder of Wii U Release Hype
@MegaBeedrill
The OP didn't express an opinion, he bashed the statement, not an opinion.
in summary:
OP says this is going to be his first pokemon game. Kirk says that it's pathetic to be introduced to pokemon this way, then accuses the OP of getting this game just because it's a fighting game, which turned out to be true. then kirk criticizes him for wanting this game as a fighter even though it is a shoddy fighter, which is kirk's current opinion and assumption.
Then he accuses the OP of being a young modern gamer that just gets the game for appearance rather than content. that may have been a little bit offensive I suppose, but he's obviously just ranting about the state of gaming today and his view of those kind of gamers. nothing to be taken personally.
I did say you guys are entitled to criticize his criticism, did I not? but the mob is forming for a completely different reason. the first few defensive comments were civil, then people just wanted to bash him for offending a non-existant opinion! just look at his discourse with @Fazermint! the guy basically sums up his statement as "fact and logic? I just wanted to be a jackass and call you a jackass!". that's the problem here. people just want to jump to the winning side and blast someone.
Also, hyrule warriors is made by the creators of dynasty warriors, and IS dynasty warriors, albeit a lite version with zelda skins, but it is the same game.
Pokken is made by the makers of tekken, but is not a re-skinned tekken, but appears to be more along the lines of naruto games... though I have no idea who made those off the top of my head, but they are generally considered a bad game. if we were presented with a tekken clone with pokemon skins, then that'd be a different story, but the game doesn't seem to flow that way, just from the camera angles alone it doesn't seem to play like tekken. haven't seen much of the game myself though, and not particularly interested in it, but I got the impression from what I've seen that it's a naruto clone.
also, never doubt a companies ability to screw up a game! especially one that has star power. let other M be a lesson to all.
Re: Video: This Pokkén Tournament Commercial Should Provide a Timely Reminder of Wii U Release Hype
@kamifox1
if you didn't like ninja gaiden or tits (lies, EVERYONE likes tits, regardless of gender or sexuality, they're just magic), they you obviously played it because it was a 3D fighter, and a rather good one.
Dragon ball Z games, depending on the game provide an interesting fighting game experience not found in other games really, so you're not playing it for the dragon ball z, you're playing it for the unique fighting game experience.
furthermore, there's a difference in playing them, and getting excited and starting a series for a game. you like blazblue but hate 2D fighters, though liking blazblue means you like 2D fighters, just not all, but anyway, you are generally not a fan of 2D fighters, so when blazblue was coming out for the first time, you would not be expected to want it, or say "this will be my first 2D fighter", nor would that be overly criticized because it appears to be a well done 2D fighter similar to guilty gear, made by the same people.
street fighter was on the arcade, it has depth, also, fighters come to consoles and have depth, we're talking about a console release here. what's wrong with the gameplay footage shown depends on the viewer. some see it and assume it's like naruto which is a pretty shoddy fighter, basically just for naruto fans. some see it and assume it's like naruto, and they happen to like the naruto fighting game because they like bad fighting games (I enjoyed mega man X6... people are allowed to like bad games). the point is, kirk is on the side assuming it's shoddy, thus not a valid reason to desire this as one's first pokemon game.
if someone says that to me for getting excited in a game I have no business being excited about, I defend my reason, not call the guy a jerk for insulting my opinion, even though I stated no opinion. the fact that eveyone is defending the OP's opinion of "this will be my first pokemon game ever!" shows that they have no idea what's going on and just want to form a mob!
he's aggressive about it, because he's passionate about pokemon. to see someone's introduction to pokemon being this is insulting to him. it's understandable. he may be wrong in his stance, but being wrong doesn't make you a jerk.
Re: Video: This Pokkén Tournament Commercial Should Provide a Timely Reminder of Wii U Release Hype
@kamifox1
As a warioland fan, there is certainly harm in liking a spinoff without playing the main series. That's why there are only warioware games being made and no classic wario amiibo. No harm indeed.
Re: Video: This Pokkén Tournament Commercial Should Provide a Timely Reminder of Wii U Release Hype
@kamifox1
Not being a pokemon fan isn't so much an issue, but that it would mean that they are not interested in the game as a pokemon fan, which is the type of person this game targets.
So this and the appearance of the game being a shoddy fighter means that he doesn't really have a good reason to want the game.
Him wanting the game isn't being criticized, the fact that "this is his first pokemon game" is, because it emphasizes that pokemon itself is the important aspect of this game but also shows that he is not a fan of the series.
It's almost like saying "I am buying this game because it's pokemon, but I'm not a pokemon fan".
Though kirk is assuming another insinuation, that if pokemon isn't the primary reason for the appeal, then it's merit as a fighting game is, which he believes it has none of.
Sure, people can play whatever they want. They can also eat glue and pour bleach on their eyes. Doesn't make it a good idea, and I will certainly step up and be the bad guy and tell people that I think it's a bad idea.
Re: Video: This Pokkén Tournament Commercial Should Provide a Timely Reminder of Wii U Release Hype
@kamifox1
And one would assume that you play dead or alive either because you like 3D fighters (it can be played non button mashy), you like ninja gaiden, or you like tits, or any combination of the three.
It does very well in all three departments.
But pokken is being assumed to be a shoddy fighter at the moment, and I'm sure most anime style games you've played have at least one character from an anime you like.
Take battle stadium D.O.N., no one who is not a fan of naruto, dragon ball z, nor one piece has any business playing that. It's not a good game! This is what is being assumed of pokken.
And you can't argue that we don't know if the game is good or not, because people will look and make assumptions until they actually play it, only natural.
Re: Video: This Pokkén Tournament Commercial Should Provide a Timely Reminder of Wii U Release Hype
@Tsusasi
It looks like naruto, so many will assume that it isn't good, though the argument isn't so much that it's bad, but it doesn't measure up to other fighting games, so wanting it as a fighting game in and of itself doesn't make much sense.
It also has pokemon characters, which would appeal to pokemon fans, so if it's one's first pokemon game, it's likely that that one is not a pokemon fan
Re: Video: This Pokkén Tournament Commercial Should Provide a Timely Reminder of Wii U Release Hype
@MegaBeedrill
One is entitled to play whatever he wants.
Another is entitled to criticize one's motivations for doing so.
Yet another is entitled to criticize anothers criticism.
Entitlement has nothing to do with anything. Seems like people are misconstruing what kirk said far beyond what he actually said and are forming a mob for the hell of it.
Re: Video: This Pokkén Tournament Commercial Should Provide a Timely Reminder of Wii U Release Hype
@kamifox1
Big difference between hyrule warriors and pokken. Hyrule warriors is made by the makers of dynasty warriors, so one can assume it'll be of a quality just as good as dynasty warriors. It's an odd place to jump into the zelda franchise, and if you enjoy the game, you're probably better off playing other dynasty warrior games. If you like the story, then you'd probably enjoy zelda fan-fiction.
Pokken, looks like a naruto game knockoff with pokemon, so as far as fighting games go, it is assumed it won't have much in the way of balance nor depth. I may not turn out that way, but appears to be that kind of game.