It's similar to Steam's problem with Early Access: the low barrier of entry means game developers can put their games with ease, but sometimes that can be abused by scammers.
@Yorumi I kinda agree with that, but remember that Nintendo is going through a generational change as we're speaking. Obviously the "new guys" will stick with the "old guard" ways for a while they find their own way.
As for Miyamoto - he has a quite poignant point: gaming is barely reaching puberty, it still has to fight for being recgonized as a legitimate medium.
You have a finished game hostage until the Wii U sells more. Guillemot, are you competing with EA for the "Most Cynical Move in Gaming" award, by any chance?
The worse thing is not that they are not releasing the game on Wii U, but that they are literally recycling a 3-4 year old game and charging full price just for a updated roster.
@Kirk Nah-ah, Earthbound is a cult classic, since the definition of cult classic is "work with a small yet devote fanbase". Earthbound falls squarely into that definition (especially in the West).
@Kirk Which are you talking about? JSF only got a sequel and recently a HD remake (because cult status) and Earthbound bombed at release, but it took 20 YEARS to resurface in the VC (because cult status).
Thing is: you can't say "X will/won't catch on" as a certainity, because you're (and me) are f-n human beings and we can be wrong. If you don't believe me read this list of examples: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ItWillNeverCatchOn
@kyuubikid213 Nah, it's still the same "Gamepad is the root of all Wii U's woes" argument. Which at this point is white noise and he doesn't realize that.
Frankly, I don't see any reasons why people would be upset at this, since Nintendo will provide an affiliate program for those who want to make money through LPs. We only need further details to decide wherether it's a good or bad deal.
"So, this whole aggregating of scores, and using that as a more "objective" measure of how good a game really is, might seem like a relatively new thing that's damaging to the industry but I'm not convinced it really is to be honest."
In case you haven't bothered to read the links I provided:
<i>The sites Rotten Tomatoes and Metacritic, due to their system of deriving an overall score for a film out of all the available reviews, are often regarded as providing a definitive stamp of quality (or lack thereof). While this is more understandable than most examples, the fact remains that some people take it too far, and act as though liking a film scoring 33% on Rotten Tomatoes is empirically indefensible, despite the obvious logic that one third of professional film critics liked it.
-This has become particularly horrifying since actual video game companies are now incorporating metascores into their business practices; this includes awarding development teams bonuses based on metascores, and deciding on a target metascore before a game has started development, and perpetrators include publishers as major as Electronic Arts and Square Enix. It is no longer possible to pretend that Metacritic is harmless.
-A good example is Obsidian Entertainment. They had a deal with Bethesda that the last portion of Bethesda's payment for Fallout: New Vegas was based on reaching a certain Metacritic score. They missed it by one point, didn't get the payment, and were forced to lay off massive amounts of staff. The score they needed to reach? 85. They got an 84. Keep in mind, that is still an extremely high score and the game also went on to sell over 5 million copies. In other words, a best-selling game with massive critical praise still cost the studio money because of a review aggregate score.
-Metacritic also has its own problems since it attempts to take reviews from multiple competing sites with their own scoring systems and derive a numerical score out of their average. Some critics, such as Adam Sessler, have pointed out the problems with creating an average score out of a series of dissimilar scoring systems.
-This is most obvious when they try to base their numerical score on sites that use letter grades. The site can extrapolate anything from 50-80 out of a C.
-And, it's also had problems where thinking that disagreeing with the opinions and not finding it that great (or even thinking it was okay but still good) will have you hung from a tree, hangman style. Particular offenders for this include The Dark Knight and Toy Story 3.
The opposite happens with movies that readers expect to be horrible. When the scores for Disaster Movie and Jack and Jill moved from a zero to a two because of one positive review (although the scores were only a C+ and a 3/5, respectively), members commented within seconds, saying that the critic is an idiot, ruined it for everyone, etc.
-Metacritic has also shown bias and given strictly averaged tone review (5/10) a positive ranking (6/10) and the reverse. Making the site less honest.</i>
Still unconvinced?
"If you don't believe me by the way, then just have a wee browse though all these issues of Mean Machines and see how many 9+ (90+) scoring games were being released for the SNES each month and as I recall those scores were reflective of the media as a whole and I'm pretty sure that in the cases where those games have scored in the high 9s (90s) that you'd find similar 9+ (90+) scores in every gaming magazine of the time"
Nah, I still have some early '00s EGM (which I still hold in high regard because the Review Crew system) and GamePro mags and they were plenty of 5s, 6s, 7s and 8s, but nobody complained about the latter 2 like nowadays. Nowadays you see games getting 7s and 8s being avoided like the plague. The hell?
Not to mention reviewers are humans and humans might have distinct opinions.
"This is absolutely why I think a lot of Nintendo FANS are perfectly happy, or at least content, with basically everything that Nintendo has been doing for the last couple of generations when imo they really shouldn't be."
Translation: "I don't like Nintendo's recent output, and whoever likes it must be a complete tool of a peasant"
Please, don't come up like if you're some sort of benchmark of sorts people should follow. It's embarassing.
@Kirk "Well, when there's a universally 9+ (90+) game on metacritic and I too would score it a 9+ (90+) then it will be what I'm talking about regardless of whether you think that's just a bunch of opinions or whatever."
And why necessarily a 90+ score? Ain't an 85 or even an 80 enough to consider it a worthy purchase at least? And on top of that, a Metacritic score? Man, it's an aggregate site: put like 4-5 negative reviews in a bucket of 20 positive ones and watch the score plummet: it's exploitable. In fact, Metacritic in it's current form is harmful for everyone just because of that. Reviews aren't the gospel after all
@Kirk:
"The thing I'm alluding too is that the chances are, when there's a game I finally consider a genuine 9+ contender all-round then I expect you'll see that reflected in metacritic too by virtue of the fact that there won't be a single review that goes lower than a 9 and most likely most of them will be quite a bit above a flat 9 even.
That's what I want, a proper indisputable 9+ game (by virtue of the fact absolutely no one, well any professional reviewer, has scored it any lower) that even I personally consider a genuine 9+ game, and I expect if you ever see such a first party game scoring as such on metacritic then that will likely be the game I'm talking about..."
I'm sorry, but it seems you are having a really bad case of 8.8-itis.. Not to mention you're leaving Metacritic to draw conclusions for you (instead of checking scores and reviews individually from each source available and then drawing your own conclusions), which is not exactly wise.
Heck, I would even drop a quote from Yahtzee Crosshaw (probably the most caustic man in gaming): "Reviews are mostly formed by opinions, and if you really love something, then another person's opinion shouldn't matter."
Personally, I only care if the game is good or not: full stop; numbered scores are BS IMHO.
Comments 380
Re: Wii U and 3DS Hardware Sales See Slight Increase in Japan as Yokai Watch 2 Stays on Top
PS4 is dropping like a rock.
Re: Nintendo Reports Losses for Q1 of Financial Year, With Variable Hardware Results
Given MK8 was out just 1 month in Q1, half a million Wii Us sold says there was a significant boost.
The question is: will that boost be constant through Q2? Only time will tell.
Re: Giana Sisters Developer Under Fire Over Dieselstormers Name
@GeminiSaint how 'bout "GasoilStormers"?
Re: Video: Scientifically Accurate Sonic The Hedgehog Ruins Everything About Sonic The Hedgehog
@Luigifan141 There's no kill like overkill
Re: Talking Point: The Wii U eShop is Raising Tough Questions on Quality Control
It's similar to Steam's problem with Early Access: the low barrier of entry means game developers can put their games with ease, but sometimes that can be abused by scammers.
My advice: do research before buying.
Re: Wii U Version Of Project CARS Drops To The Back Of The Starting Grid
Not cool, Bamco
I just hope they let SMS add extra content to make up for the delay.
Re: British Tabloid The Sun Brands Gaming "As Addictive As Heroin"
UK
wut r u doin
UK
stahp
Re: Feature: The Biggest Wii U Games of 2014 - Summer Edition
PROJECT CARS! PROJECT CARS! PROJECT CARS! PROJECT CARS! PROJECT CARS! PROJECT CARS! PROJECT CARS! PROJECT CARS! PROJECT CARS! PROJECT CARS! PROJECT CARS! PROJECT CARS!
Re: Shigeru Miyamoto Explains His Belief That the Video Game Industry's "Creativity is Still Immature"
@Yorumi I kinda agree with that, but remember that Nintendo is going through a generational change as we're speaking. Obviously the "new guys" will stick with the "old guard" ways for a while they find their own way.
As for Miyamoto - he has a quite poignant point: gaming is barely reaching puberty, it still has to fight for being recgonized as a legitimate medium.
Re: Video: Nintendo UK Sets Its Sights Firmly On The Youth Market With New 3DS Advert
@maceng The 3DSXL screens have the same resolution as the regular model.
Re: Cross-Buy is Now a Thing on Nintendo Platforms
ITS HAPPENING
Re: Nintendo Supported Our Vision The Most, Says Devil's Third Maker Valhalla Game Studio
@jd45 It's a Tomonobu Itagaki game, gratuitous fanservice and over the top characters are expected from him.
Re: Talking Point: Nintendo Should Beware the Slippery Slope of Sponsored DLC
I'm cool with sponsored DLC as long it's
a) free
b) non-gamebreaking
c) fitting within the game world
Re: Nintendo Needs To Cut Wii U Cost To Capitalise On Mario Kart 8 Success, Says Ubisoft CEO
You have a finished game hostage until the Wii U sells more. Guillemot, are you competing with EA for the "Most Cynical Move in Gaming" award, by any chance?
Re: Mario Kart 8 Speeds Into Second Place In NPD May Sales, Kirby Powers Up In Ninth
Seems like somebody in here needs one of these:

Re: FIFA 15 Is Lacing Its Boots For A Wii And 3DS Appearance, But Is Skipping The Wii U
The worse thing is not that they are not releasing the game on Wii U, but that they are literally recycling a 3-4 year old game and charging full price just for a updated roster.
Disgusting.
Re: Poll: What Did You Think of Nintendo's E3?
Am I the only one digging Devil's Third?
(Splatoon is a close 2nd, tho)
Re: Mario Kart 8 Toys Boosting Into McDonald's Happy Meals
Re: E3 2014: Nintendo Hopes to Share Metroid News in the "Near Future"
Re: E3 2014: Hands On With Nintendo's New Online Shooter IP, Splatoon
^well, the difference between a "regular" classic and a "cult classic" is mainly scale.
For example: the Honda Civic fans and the Nissan Sentra SE-R fans.
Re: E3 2014: Hands On With Nintendo's New Online Shooter IP, Splatoon
@Kirk Nah-ah, Earthbound is a cult classic, since the definition of cult classic is "work with a small yet devote fanbase". Earthbound falls squarely into that definition (especially in the West).
Just take a look: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cult_video_game#1990s
Re: E3 2014: Hands On With Nintendo's New Online Shooter IP, Splatoon
@Kirk Which are you talking about? JSF only got a sequel and recently a HD remake (because cult status) and Earthbound bombed at release, but it took 20 YEARS to resurface in the VC (because cult status).
Thing is: you can't say "X will/won't catch on" as a certainity, because you're (and me) are f-n human beings and we can be wrong. If you don't believe me read this list of examples: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ItWillNeverCatchOn
Re: E3 2014: Hands On With Nintendo's New Online Shooter IP, Splatoon
@Kirk JSF is a "cult status" game. Just like Earthbound (which you mentioned earlier).
Thing is, Splatoon is rather shaping well as a breath of fresh air among shooters. People are digging it.
Re: E3 2014: Hands On With Nintendo's New Online Shooter IP, Splatoon
@Action51 haha, true.
Nintendo is not of the "me-too" crowd: if they take on a genre, they sure as hell put their spin on it. Splatoon is the most recent proof of that.
Re: E3 2014: Reggie Fils-Aime Reaffirms Nintendo's Commitment to the GamePad
@kyuubikid213 Nah, it's still the same "Gamepad is the root of all Wii U's woes" argument. Which at this point is white noise and he doesn't realize that.
Fool.
Re: E3 2014: Reggie Fils-Aime Reaffirms Nintendo's Commitment to the GamePad
@kyuubikid213 Nope, he's still throwing fits.
As predicted.
Re: E3 2014: Reggie Fils-Aime Reaffirms Nintendo's Commitment to the GamePad
@Hy8ogen That guy is just a f-ing broken record. In fact he will go all like:

Re: Reaction: Our Thoughts on Nintendo's Big Day at E3
I loved it. That's how Nintendo should roll on E3.
Re: Sonic the Hedgehog Movie Confirmed, Being Produced by Neal Moritz
uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuugggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
Re: E3 2014: Devil's Third Confirmed As Wii U Exclusive
This looks absolutely a riot to play. Hope it gets polshed visually, tho.
Re: E3 2014: Shigeru Miyamoto Confirms Star Fox for Wii U
mfw:

Re: Shigeru Miyamoto Confirmed for Day One Appearance on Nintendo Treehouse Live Broadcast
mfw:

Re: Mario Kart 8 Sells More Than 1.2 Million Units in Opening Weekend
@NodesforNoids Dude, it's 1.2 millon copies in 2-3 days. This game is selling like hot cakes right now.
Re: Mario Kart 8 Sells More Than 1.2 Million Units in Opening Weekend
Re: Mario Kart 8 Drives Wii U Sales In The UK, Claims Second Place Behind Watch Dogs
Dat number of the beast.
Re: Month of Mario Kart: Clones And Alternatives to Nintendo's Classic Series
Don't forget Need for Speed Nitro: great gameplay and style, but hindered by lack of variety.

Re: Older Wii U Bundles, Including All Black Systems, Discontinued in Japan
@unrandomsam The Wii U is now breaking even, look it up.
If anything this could be a SKU rotation. That and nobody wants a black Wii U in Japan, apparently
Re: Mario Kart 8 DLC Confirmed for Japan With Free Mercedes Car
@unrandomsam
"Mercedes are good if you need an automatic that can easily hold a wheel chair in the back. Or if you have lots of big dogs."
Do you even AMG, bro?

Re: Mario Kart 8 DLC Confirmed for Japan With Free Mercedes Car
lol@all the the people who's getting mad at this.
A kart-sized real car in Mario Kart? Sign me in.
Re: Evil Controllers Offers Custom Mario-Themed Wii U Pro Controllers
Uh... no. A $30 premium for paintwork is WAAAAY too steep
Re: Nintendo Japan Announces Plans for YouTube Affiliate Program
Frankly, I don't see any reasons why people would be upset at this, since Nintendo will provide an affiliate program for those who want to make money through LPs. We only need further details to decide wherether it's a good or bad deal.
Re: Hyrule Warriors Is The Zelda Game That Eiji Aonuma Could Never Make Himself
@Savino This is not the next Zelda; it's a spinoff.
Re: Hyrule Warriors Screenshots and Gameplay Details Emerge
looks at Shea
eeeyup, that's Team Ninja indeed.
Re: Japanese Retail Sales Struggle as Just 76 Units Separate PS4 and Wii U
Holy whack, the PS4 is dropping like a rock in Japan
Re: Hyrule Warriors Confirmed for 14th August in Japan, Producer Roles for Team Ninja Staff are Revealed
@bezerker99 That was Sakamoto's fault. Not Team Ninja's.
Re: Reaction: Mario Kart 8 Accused Of Poor Sales Potential, Ruining Battle Mode And Racism
The first 2 are your typical case of bad journalism but the latter one... it should have been stayed in Tumblr and in Tumblr only.
Re: Review: Mario Kart 8 (Wii U)
"So, this whole aggregating of scores, and using that as a more "objective" measure of how good a game really is, might seem like a relatively new thing that's damaging to the industry but I'm not convinced it really is to be honest."
In case you haven't bothered to read the links I provided:
<i>The sites Rotten Tomatoes and Metacritic, due to their system of deriving an overall score for a film out of all the available reviews, are often regarded as providing a definitive stamp of quality (or lack thereof). While this is more understandable than most examples, the fact remains that some people take it too far, and act as though liking a film scoring 33% on Rotten Tomatoes is empirically indefensible, despite the obvious logic that one third of professional film critics liked it.
-This has become particularly horrifying since actual video game companies are now incorporating metascores into their business practices; this includes awarding development teams bonuses based on metascores, and deciding on a target metascore before a game has started development, and perpetrators include publishers as major as Electronic Arts and Square Enix. It is no longer possible to pretend that Metacritic is harmless.
-A good example is Obsidian Entertainment. They had a deal with Bethesda that the last portion of Bethesda's payment for Fallout: New Vegas was based on reaching a certain Metacritic score. They missed it by one point, didn't get the payment, and were forced to lay off massive amounts of staff. The score they needed to reach? 85. They got an 84. Keep in mind, that is still an extremely high score and the game also went on to sell over 5 million copies. In other words, a best-selling game with massive critical praise still cost the studio money because of a review aggregate score.
-Metacritic also has its own problems since it attempts to take reviews from multiple competing sites with their own scoring systems and derive a numerical score out of their average. Some critics, such as Adam Sessler, have pointed out the problems with creating an average score out of a series of dissimilar scoring systems.
-This is most obvious when they try to base their numerical score on sites that use letter grades. The site can extrapolate anything from 50-80 out of a C.
-And, it's also had problems where thinking that disagreeing with the opinions and not finding it that great (or even thinking it was okay but still good) will have you hung from a tree, hangman style. Particular offenders for this include The Dark Knight and Toy Story 3.
The opposite happens with movies that readers expect to be horrible. When the scores for Disaster Movie and Jack and Jill moved from a zero to a two because of one positive review (although the scores were only a C+ and a 3/5, respectively), members commented within seconds, saying that the critic is an idiot, ruined it for everyone, etc.
-Metacritic has also shown bias and given strictly averaged tone review (5/10) a positive ranking (6/10) and the reverse. Making the site less honest.</i>
Still unconvinced?
"If you don't believe me by the way, then just have a wee browse though all these issues of Mean Machines and see how many 9+ (90+) scoring games were being released for the SNES each month and as I recall those scores were reflective of the media as a whole and I'm pretty sure that in the cases where those games have scored in the high 9s (90s) that you'd find similar 9+ (90+) scores in every gaming magazine of the time"
Nah, I still have some early '00s EGM (which I still hold in high regard because the Review Crew system) and GamePro mags and they were plenty of 5s, 6s, 7s and 8s, but nobody complained about the latter 2 like nowadays. Nowadays you see games getting 7s and 8s being avoided like the plague. The hell?
Not to mention reviewers are humans and humans might have distinct opinions.
"This is absolutely why I think a lot of Nintendo FANS are perfectly happy, or at least content, with basically everything that Nintendo has been doing for the last couple of generations when imo they really shouldn't be."
Translation: "I don't like Nintendo's recent output, and whoever likes it must be a complete tool of a peasant"
Please, don't come up like if you're some sort of benchmark of sorts people should follow. It's embarassing.
Re: Review: Mario Kart 8 (Wii U)
@Kirk
Well, I'm going to file that into "lines of thought that are hurting gaming", if you excuse me.
Re: Review: Mario Kart 8 (Wii U)
@Kirk
"Well, when there's a universally 9+ (90+) game on metacritic and I too would score it a 9+ (90+) then it will be what I'm talking about regardless of whether you think that's just a bunch of opinions or whatever."
And why necessarily a 90+ score? Ain't an 85 or even an 80 enough to consider it a worthy purchase at least? And on top of that, a Metacritic score? Man, it's an aggregate site: put like 4-5 negative reviews in a bucket of 20 positive ones and watch the score plummet: it's exploitable. In fact, Metacritic in it's current form is harmful for everyone just because of that. Reviews aren't the gospel after all
Re: Review: Mario Kart 8 (Wii U)
@Kirk:
"The thing I'm alluding too is that the chances are, when there's a game I finally consider a genuine 9+ contender all-round then I expect you'll see that reflected in metacritic too by virtue of the fact that there won't be a single review that goes lower than a 9 and most likely most of them will be quite a bit above a flat 9 even.
That's what I want, a proper indisputable 9+ game (by virtue of the fact absolutely no one, well any professional reviewer, has scored it any lower) that even I personally consider a genuine 9+ game, and I expect if you ever see such a first party game scoring as such on metacritic then that will likely be the game I'm talking about..."
I'm sorry, but it seems you are having a really bad case of 8.8-itis.. Not to mention you're leaving Metacritic to draw conclusions for you (instead of checking scores and reviews individually from each source available and then drawing your own conclusions), which is not exactly wise.
Heck, I would even drop a quote from Yahtzee Crosshaw (probably the most caustic man in gaming):
"Reviews are mostly formed by opinions, and if you really love something, then another person's opinion shouldn't matter."
Personally, I only care if the game is good or not: full stop; numbered scores are BS IMHO.