Markets can change of course, the Wii proved that, but assuming the current trend continues, then Bushnell is correct. The 3DS is selling well enough, but it's sales are dwarfed by those of the iPod Touch, iPhone, and Android devices. You need only look at the sales of big mobile games to see where portable gaming is headed.
As for the Wii U, it's a dead system. There really is nothing that can save it now. Even if Nintendo ditched the tablet and slashed the price it wouldn't make any difference. It's simply too little too late, and NIntendo should "do a Sega" and kill it before they lose too much money. They could make a fortune developing for other devices.
@TG1 Not really. If you check the X360 metacritic (which is always the best course of action, as the majority of review sites only review the 360 version) then it has a metacritic of 69%.
It wasn't a hard trend to predict, as Sony and Microsoft were able to do successfully.
Nintendo didn't go HD because the Wii was made on a low budget, and is an overlocked Gamecube, and so incapable of rendering much at 720p, let alone 1080p.
This was entirely preditable from the moment Nintendo first showed the Wii U. It's simply a weak product. Poor, antiquated hardware which won't be able to run next-gen games, paired with a read dud of a gimmick which Nintendo can't sell to anyone.
It's time to cut the losses, and go multi-platform.
@FantasiaWHT You missed the most important reason - digital cuts out the middle men. No distributors and no retailers. They take the lion's share of the cost of a game. With them gone, digital should be dramatically cheaper than physical.
WIth regard to Sony's digital pricing, The Last of Us was unusually cheap. Most PSN downloads of new titles are £49.99, £59.99, or even more for the likes of Assassin's Creed 4. (which is around £65) Given that Amazon sells of these for £35 or £40, Sony's pricing is, The Last of Us excluded, equally insane.
I don't get the whole 'lets not upset the retailers' thing, as game retailing barely exists anymore anyway. It's time to price digital releases sensibly and retire the discs once and for all.
@GN0LAUM Now you know how us Europeans have been treated since the dawn of video games. Although we don't usually wait 1 month for releases, it's often 6-12 months.
I just bought this from the EU store. It's essentially a tank game, and a very difficult one. Level one seems deceptively easy, but even by level two the difficulty rockets up.
The reason for choosing Wind Waker for an HD re-release was really logical and simple - it's clean hand drawn largely flat coloured art and stylised geometry have aged far better than the more realistic Zelda games. They simply upped the size of the frame buffer, dropped in some light maps and bloom, and there you go, an 'HD' re-release.
To produce an HD version of Ocarina would either give you something which looks incredibly dated and essentially non releasable outside of budget territory, or would mean a huge budget the same size as an all new game. In the latter case, the extra cost involved in just making it an all new game is not all that significant.
Nintendo are clearly in a tough spot, with not enough games in the pipe to prop up a system which is on it's last legs. They'd do better to cut their losses and switch development to the PS4.
It's good to hear, but will almost certainly be too late by that point. Nintendo should have launched the Wii U with a totally new IP. (and I obviously don't count the mini game collection that was Nintendo land)
Reading text on those ultra low res 3DS screens is not going to be easy on the eyes. Just buy a Kindle people, or an iPad, which gets you not only an infinitely superior screen, but also access to the biggest and most stable eBook store.
Factor 5 produced amazing looking games for the time, and got more out of the Gamecube hardware than anyone else. Their games though, despite the technical brilliance, were always on the weak side.
How does what Miyamoto said tally with Super Mario 3D World and the next Donkey Kong Country game? Or perhaps Animal Crossing on the 3DS. All excellent games no doubt, but original they most certainly are not.
Mario Galaxy was a new take on the Mario character, but even more interesting than that, was the original Pikmin. Innovation is not only more interesting that re-hashes, but it's also incredibly easy. You just need a functioning imagination, and the courage to believe in your creation. Sadly Nintendo seems to either run out of ideas, or is in survival mode and is playing it very, very safely.
I've never understood the whole second screen thing. When I read that most people now watch TV whilst looking at their iPad/iPhone at the same time I despair. If the TV show or movie you're watching is so dull that you'd sooner browse some trivial social media nonsense, then you might want to find a better TV show or movie to watch instead.
When I'm watching TV or a movie, or playing a game, that's the only thing I'm doing. If the content isn't interesting enough, I put something else on instead.
As for Nintendo's dual screen efforts, it made no sense to me when I first saw the DS and it still makes no sense to me. All I see are a bunch of in game maps or an empty 2nd screen, save for a few scores and other trivia. It's a waste of battery power and makes the system far more bulky. Had the Vita had the games the 3DS does, I wouldn't consider the 3DS for a micro second.
Iwata seems like a very nice guy, but someone might have to take the blame for the spectacular failure that is the Wii U. It's making the GameCube look like a glorious success.
There must be some pretty stressful meetings going on in Kyoto now. Who made the decision to build a current gen console when the current generation was 8 years old, has seen declining sales for years, and is about to be replaced? Who thought bundling a massive super low end tablet would appeal to gamers? Why has the system lost most of it's third party support, with the little that remains on the way out? And why was the Wii U given so little advertising time, and the few ads that were aired, were all awful...
It's a train wreck and there can't be any but the most die hard of fans who think it can be salvaged. Nintendo of course, has plenty of money in the bank, and the 3DS is doing well enough in Japan to stay afloat for a while. Long term though, things need to change at Nintendo, and I bet they'll follow SEGA into becoming a software only dev within a 2-3 years.
@P-Gamer-C There will always be a market for hardcore games, but sales have been in decline for years. With increased budgets next-gen, it will be even more vital for studios to make every game they produce a mega hit, as the alternative could be financial oblivion.
Personally I see the market splitting into two even more distinct groups. There would be a lot of small to medium sized devs, who produce smaller, more innovative games on any platform which makes sense to do so. Then there would be a few giant publishers who will spend obscene amounts of money on games which are technically well produced, but also "safe". (ie. COD clones and sports games)
I think the middle ground - devs who target consoles but don't have the budget to make COD/Assassins Creed level games, will disappear.
I hope I'm wrong, but this is certainly the way the market is headed right now.
@P-Gamer-C I doubt the Wii U will survive beyond the end of next year. That said, it will be interesting to see how the Xbox One and PS4 do after the initial hype has died down. The console market has been in steep decline for years now. A new generation may help, but looking at the launch titles they're very much more of the same. (with the exception of the Sony Indie stuff)
The trend is towards mobile - iOS and Android. You may not like it, but that's the way gaming is going.
@b23cdq Where on earth do you get this stuff from? The majority of X360 and PS3 games render 720p, more so on the 360 than the PS3 due to the Xenos having a higher fill rate than the RSX. Somes games (Call of Duty being one) render sub HD then upscale. By the way, when multi-plat games are analysed (see Digital Foundry) sub-HD games such as COD are also sub-HD on Wii U.
There are a smattering of 1080p games on the 360 and PS3, but not many. The PixelJunk games on PS3 are all 1080p, but of course, they're just simple 2D games.
There isn't enough fill rate in these old GPUs (Wii U included) to render much at 1080p. With the next-gen systems we'll see more 1080p stuff, but personally I expect there will still be a fair bit of 720p around, especially for games that want to run at 60fps. If you really want that perfect 1080/60 in all games, you're going to need a modern PC GPU.
@Schprocket I don't recall ever seeing the PS3 and Xbox 360 sold as 'full HD', just as 'HD'.
You'd be hard pressed to find a 720p TV on sale now, except perhaps with very small sizes, and the extreme end of the bargain plasmas. 1080p has been essentially standard for years now in new TVs.
Regardless, these terms are defined, and 'full HD' means 1080p. Nintendo shouldn't use the term if they can't back it up with even their own 1st party software.
It's a little disingenuous for Reggie to say the games are in 'full HD'. Rayman will be 1080p, and maybe a smattering of others, but the vast majority of Wii U games are in 720p, including 100% of Nintendo's own output.
I can see why Nintendo thought the gamepad was a good idea - the rise in tablets and the short attention span/second screen stuff, and the ability to bring a touch screen to console gaming.
In practice though, it wasn't well thought out or implemented. The Wii Gamepad is a terrible tablet, far worse than even a cheap Android tablet, let alone an iPad. No tablet other than the absolute bottom end of the bargain bin has a resistive touch screen, and yet, the Wii U uses than antiquated tech.
As a feature for devs, it's a map screen and little more. Is it better to look away from the screen to look an in-game map, or just look at the on-screen mini map in the corner?
It's a gimmick too far, and just as we've seen Nintendo pull back pushing the headache inducing gimmicky 3D in the 3DS, it's pulling back from the gamepad.
If Nintendo has any hope of bringing the Wii U back from the brink, I'd say it should ditch the gamepad and just ship the Wii with the pro controller, and embrace indies in as loving a way as possible. Make it effectively a steam box - filled to bursting point with new, innovative, and low cost games. Make it the essential second console.
@Kirk The lighting has no bounce, ambient occlusion, and no global illumination. It also has simple projected shadows with no penumbra. This is typical of realtime lighting on current gen hardware.
Mario Kart on Wii uses lightmaps to achieve those effects, albeit at the expense of precalculated light maps. The difference should be really easy to see - the lighting in Mario 3D looks flat and simplistic. Areas are either fully lit or in shadow, and when they're in shadow, they have no directionality at all. In Mario Kart, even shadowed areas look interesting due to the bounce and AO. With GI, it gives everything a cohesive look.
For next gen realtime lighting, look at a game like Ubi's The Division.
I'm sure this will play wonderfully, as most Mario games do, but it's so devoid of originality as to be pretty unexciting.
Also it's interesting to see just how dramatically prettier Mario Kart is. It's not just that Mario Kart is light mapped with some nice GI and Mario 3D world is realtime lit, even the amount of geo on screen is far higher in Mario Kart. Both are 60fps too, and Mario Kart is even 60 in split screen mode.
It's telling that Nintendo chose to show only established franchises. Does that mean they have nothing new in development internally? If they're relying on third parties to deliver new experiences, then their rapidly dwindling pool of support must be causing many sleepless nights.
To my eyes Sony are the clear favourite to win the next generation. They have the best hardware, they're not forcing motion control on people, the price is high but just about low enough to still sell, and the line-up of games looks to be a good mix between mega budget and indie. If only they had shown The Last Guardian...
Owning all the systems is the only way to go if you want all the best games. It's been that way pretty much since the dawn of gaming, and it probably always will be.
I'm looking forward to Project X Zone and Bravely Default. I love these obscure Japanese RPGs and SRPGs. It's too bad the good ones are pretty much exclusive to handhelds now, with the exception of the Disgaea series of course. I guess there just isn't the money in such games to pay for full console dev on one.
@MadAdam81 I think you're confusing terminology. There are essentially three parts to a game. There are the platform specific parts, which include GPU specific code, CPU specific code, TRC requirements, online, and input, the multi-platform game 'engine', which includes AI, scripting, control, animation, and various other common elements, and then there are assets. (which typically have two tiers - PC and console)
A Wii U port of any game needs lots of console specific changes to make it run. The multi-platform game engine stuff you can port. That leaves the assets, which can be swapped in and out however you like.
@MadAdam81 In game development assets are nearly always authored to a higher resolution than will be seen on console hardware. This is done for use on the PC version, for promotional renders, and simply as insurance 'just in case'.
Assuming the pipeline supports it, it's trivial to push higher end assets to new platforms, as would certainly of been the case with Black Ops 2. Therefore had the Wii U version been able to run with higher res textures (the system has more RAM than the 360 and PS3), then they should have been present. The fact that they weren't, implies that there are bandwidth issues on the GPU.
In the case of the Sonic karting game, the console versions ran sub 720p, which is a common technique used when a game is fillrate limited. Simply put, by rendering fewer pixels, the GPU finishes quicker, and gets you closer to your target 33ms frame time. If the Wii U's GPU really was significantly more powerful than the Xenos or RSX, then it should have more fill rate, and so be able to render in 720p, if not 1080p. Changing the size of the frame buffer is not a big change for the code team, and would certainly have been done if the GPU had been able to handle it.
Of course it's not quite that simple. There are always ways to optimise shaders, and it could be that some of the shaders which worked well on Xenos and RSX were simply performing poorly on the Wii U's GPU. We've obviously got no way to know that.
However it's clearly not a good start that games designed for 8 year old vintage hardware run little better, and sometimes worse, on Nintendo's supposedly 'next-gen' hardware. The logical conclusion then, is that the Wii U is seriously underpowered, and stands no chance of running games which target PS4 and Xbox One.
@MadAdam81 According to Digital Foundry, the Wii U version of Black Ops had far more slow down than any other version.
Obviously early days and probably a quick port, but even a quick port should run well if the hardware is powerful enough.
Other ports struggled too, such as the Sonic karting game, which ran at the same low res as the Xbox version. That's probably a lack of GPU fill-rate, which if the Wii U's GPU was really 'generations ahead' of the Xenos, wouldn't be an issue.
I hope for Nintendo's sake this is true, but it's the polar opposite of what every other dev has said. There are reasons why Unreal 4 and Frostbite 3 are not on the Wii U, and financial reasons are are only part of that story.
It's also telling that even first party games such as Pikmin look essentially like Wii games with spec maps. I believe the game did begin in the Wii, but there are very many ways to easily make things look current-gen, and very few are on display in Pikmin. Textures are very low res, and there are no parallax, normal, displacement, incandescence, gloss, or AO maps. It doesn't even use FXAA or MLAA, which has been standard in 360/PS3 games for a few years now.
When I look at launch PS4 games like KIllzone, I can already see plenty of processing and effects, not to mention geometry density which are a good way ahead of current gen. And that's a launch game.
@fzerofan I've worked in game dev for many years, and have discussed the Wii U with programmers who have published games on the system. These guys have also worked extensively on the X360 and PS3. They all say the same thing - the CPU is terrible and far weaker than other current gen systems.
Or if you like, you could just read the detailed comparisons of Wii U games vs 360/PS3 on digital foundry. When CPU load increases, Wii U games slow down.
@MadAdam81 Sorry but this is getting embarrassing. Need for Speed got some higher res textures due to the Wii U having more RAM.
The X1 and the PS4 are next-gen systems, a whole cycle ahead in CPU, GPU, RAM speed and quantity, and OS features. Even once you factor in losing 2gb to the OS the PS4 still has 6gb remaining, and it's super quick GDDR5.
@fzerofan Some games have been able to wrong some minor graphical improvements out of the Wii U through its extra RAM. The 360 and PS3 are extremely constrained on memory, the Wii U, not so much.
However it's simply wrong to say that the CPU is on par with other current gen systems. Whichever measurement you want to look at, it's a far slower chip on paper and in practice.
@Meaty-cheeky When real time visuals are indistinguishable from real life, then we can stop moving forwards. I'm sure you'll agree that we're still a very long way from achieving that. Even pre-rendered visuals have many years of development ahead of them before they can shoot for photo realism.
What an incredibly asinine quote. So the guy is essentially saying the Wii U is next gen, because it's better than the Wii. Well technically, yes, it's the next generation of Nintendo hardware, but he's literally the only dev who has ever said it's more powerful than the 360. Dozens of others have already written the Wii U off as being less powerful than current gen.
The Wii U's achilles' heel, is it's incredibly weak CPU. It's an evolution of the same CPU used in the Wii, which itself was a clocked up Gamecube CPU. It's enormously slower than the CPUs in the 360 and PS3. This leads to slowdown in CPU intensive situations (such as when many characters are on screen at once), and limits how much devs can do with physics.
On the GPU front it's more comparable with the 360 and PS3, but it's in no possible sense anywhere near the level of the PS3 and Xbox One GPUs.
I get the argument that games are all that matters, that's fine, but that's very different from saying the Wii U is next gen from a hardware standpoint, because it just isn't.
It's disappointing that this now a niche series which is difficult to sell in the West, but then again, so is Fire Emblem, and that did well recently, so there may yet be hope.
The digital release thing is fine with me, as I only buy 3DS games digitally anyway. I've left physical media behind, and am glad to see the back of it. It's not just the extra convenience, but it sends a strong environmental message too.
@Saturn Ah, I was wondering when it would come to that. It's not pretty.
I have a 3DS XL and have owned every Nintendo console since the SNES, but I don't own a Wii U for obvious reasons. I want to see Nintendo succeed as the games industry needs them. Their production values are first class and they still make the kind of old school games which can be hard to find on other platforms.
However I'm not blinkered, it's plain to see that Nintendo have made mistakes, especially with the Wii U, and they're in a lot of trouble now. I'd like to see them innovate their way out, but instead they're taking the conservative route with endless sequels.
I like new things, I like original ideas and concepts, I like to be surprised. There's nothing surprising about yet another Mario Kart, Gran Turismo, or Gears of War.
@Saturn The 3DS does well in Japan because it has sold Japanese support. It gets some Western third party support, but not a great deal.
The Wii U has no third party support anywhere, so it's in a far worse position. It crucially lacks an easy to sell gimmick this time too, so it will rely entirely on it's software for sales, and as even the most die hard Nintendo fan would surely admit, the Wii U has little software of interest. Maybe that will change, who knows, but right now, there are already more games announced for a console which hasn't been released (the PS4), than there are for the Wii U.
@Saturn I guess you missed my post when I reeled of a load of original Sony IP.
Nintendo first party games sell to Nintendo fans. Fine, that's a dwindling but still useful source of income, but it's not enough long term. To succeed long term, you need to bring third party devs on board, and you need a platform which sells to everyone, not just a tiny niche.
The Wii U is a failure, and third party support, what little there was, has already abandoned the platform. Let's check back in a couple of years and see where the sales are, I suspect the Wii U will already have been discontinued. It's even more of a failure than the Dreamcast was. (a console I loved, but sadly a total disaster in terms of sales, which resulted in it's early termination)
I suspect that the next Xbox will be on top in a few years, as it's focussing strongly on video/TV stuff, which is a huge growing market. Everyone now has a Netflix (etc) app, but I think Microsoft will go much further. We'll see in a couple of days.
@Marshi Game and Wario is a sequel to the Warioware games. Nintendo land is of course casual focussed, and to me at least, uninteresting.
Did you hear me defending God of War or Gran Turismo?
I'd just like to see a mix from Nintendo. Say, 50% totally original games, and 50% sequels to keep the fans happy. Right now the balance is skewed massively towards sequels. If you never want to see anything new, then fine, you'll love Nintendo's approach.
@Marshi Listing a bunch of sequels doesn't really work when arguing against someone who wants fewer sequels. Nor does listing games from companies other than Nintendo.
There is a place for 'more of the same', if done well, and Nintendo's endless sequels are usually done very well. There is also a place for innovation.
I have a 3DS XL and I've been enjoying Nintendo's sequels - Fire Emblem especially - but I'd sooner have something completely original and surprising. For games like that, I have to look to Sony. (Who obviously, as you pointed out, make plenty of 'playing it safe' sequels too)
Can you imagine the excitement and interest in Wii U, if instead of announcing yet another Smash Bros etc, Nintendo had announced a slate of totally new ideas and concepts?
@Marshi The Wii was a gimmick designed to sell the console to casuals whose interest in gaming extends little further than getting the console out of the cupboard once a year when the relatives come round. It's the equivalent of Monopoly of Cluedo.
The Wii U is a failed attempt to cash in on the current popularity of real tablets like the iPad. Neither of those gimmicks did anything for real gamers, and in the case of the Wii, shoehorning in flappy hand motion controls actively damaged gaming.
As for Sony, they've often been innovative for many years now, and in the only way that matters - in games. A few examples - Journey, Flower, Locoroco, Little Big Planet, The Last Guy, ICO, Shadow of the Colossus, Patapon, Tokyo Jungle, and upcoming games such as Rain, Tearaway, and Puppeteer look interesting too. Sony are also embracing indie gaming very actively now.
The way I see it, the three platform holders now have three distinct identities. Nintendo exist purely to serve their remaining fanbase through endless sequels. Microsoft are mostly interested in making a fancy Netflix streamer, and Sony are the last console maker standing which is still interested in originality in gaming.
It must be pretty easy working in planning at Nintendo's Japanese dev offices. The plan is the same for every console - make a new version of all our franchises, then do the same again 5 years later. What was the last original Nintendo game? Pikmin? (I'm not including casual junk like Wii Sports for obvious reasons) How many years ago was that?
Innovation, originality, and new thinking used to be Nintendo's raison d'être, but no more it seems. For originality, Sony are now the platform holder to watch - especially their Japan studio.
I thought Lords of Shadow was at best a mediocre God of War clone with an abysmal camera, terrible frame rate, and a total lack of character and personality. In it's defense, it did at least look really good.
Why can't we just get a proper Castlevania game on a non portable console? Is it too much to ask?
Comments 525
Re: Atari Founder Nolan Bushnell Claims Nintendo "Could Be On The Path To Irrelevance"
Markets can change of course, the Wii proved that, but assuming the current trend continues, then Bushnell is correct. The 3DS is selling well enough, but it's sales are dwarfed by those of the iPod Touch, iPhone, and Android devices. You need only look at the sales of big mobile games to see where portable gaming is headed.
As for the Wii U, it's a dead system. There really is nothing that can save it now. Even if Nintendo ditched the tablet and slashed the price it wouldn't make any difference. It's simply too little too late, and NIntendo should "do a Sega" and kill it before they lose too much money. They could make a fortune developing for other devices.
Re: Review: DuckTales: Remastered (Wii U eShop)
@TG1 Not really. If you check the X360 metacritic (which is always the best course of action, as the majority of review sites only review the 360 version) then it has a metacritic of 69%.
The big scores are the most telling:
IGN - 7/10
Eurogamer - 6/10
Polygon - 5/10
Gamespot - 4.5/10
If you enjoy it then great, good for you.
Re: Review: DuckTales: Remastered (Wii U eShop)
This game has been given pretty harsh reviews on every other site. The score here is the outlier. I'd suggest checking metacritic.
Re: Shigeru Miyamoto "Wanted to go to HD Sooner" With the Wii
It wasn't a hard trend to predict, as Sony and Microsoft were able to do successfully.
Nintendo didn't go HD because the Wii was made on a low budget, and is an overlocked Gamecube, and so incapable of rendering much at 720p, let alone 1080p.
Re: 3DS UK Success in 2013 Offset by Abysmal Wii U Figures
This was entirely preditable from the moment Nintendo first showed the Wii U. It's simply a weak product. Poor, antiquated hardware which won't be able to run next-gen games, paired with a read dud of a gimmick which Nintendo can't sell to anyone.
It's time to cut the losses, and go multi-platform.
Re: Soapbox: Retail Games Cost Too Much To Download From The eShop
@FantasiaWHT You missed the most important reason - digital cuts out the middle men. No distributors and no retailers. They take the lion's share of the cost of a game. With them gone, digital should be dramatically cheaper than physical.
Re: Soapbox: Retail Games Cost Too Much To Download From The eShop
WIth regard to Sony's digital pricing, The Last of Us was unusually cheap. Most PSN downloads of new titles are £49.99, £59.99, or even more for the likes of Assassin's Creed 4. (which is around £65) Given that Amazon sells of these for £35 or £40, Sony's pricing is, The Last of Us excluded, equally insane.
I don't get the whole 'lets not upset the retailers' thing, as game retailing barely exists anymore anyway. It's time to price digital releases sensibly and retire the discs once and for all.
Re: Review: Mario & Luigi: Dream Team (3DS)
@GN0LAUM Now you know how us Europeans have been treated since the dawn of video games. Although we don't usually wait 1 month for releases, it's often 6-12 months.
Re: Review: Kokuga (3DS eShop)
I just bought this from the EU store. It's essentially a tank game, and a very difficult one. Level one seems deceptively easy, but even by level two the difficulty rockets up.
It's good, but not great. I'd say a 7/10 game.
Re: Soapbox: Why We Should Expect More From The Legend Of Zelda: Wind Waker HD
The reason for choosing Wind Waker for an HD re-release was really logical and simple - it's clean hand drawn largely flat coloured art and stylised geometry have aged far better than the more realistic Zelda games. They simply upped the size of the frame buffer, dropped in some light maps and bloom, and there you go, an 'HD' re-release.
To produce an HD version of Ocarina would either give you something which looks incredibly dated and essentially non releasable outside of budget territory, or would mean a huge budget the same size as an all new game. In the latter case, the extra cost involved in just making it an all new game is not all that significant.
Nintendo are clearly in a tough spot, with not enough games in the pipe to prop up a system which is on it's last legs. They'd do better to cut their losses and switch development to the PS4.
Re: Shigeru Miyamoto Emphasizes That New Experiences, and a New Franchise, Are Keeping Him Busy
It's good to hear, but will almost certainly be too late by that point. Nintendo should have launched the Wii U with a totally new IP. (and I obviously don't count the mini game collection that was Nintendo land)
Re: 3DS eBook App Details Emerge in Japan
Reading text on those ultra low res 3DS screens is not going to be easy on the eyes. Just buy a Kindle people, or an iPad, which gets you not only an infinitely superior screen, but also access to the biggest and most stable eBook store.
Re: Review: Star Wars Rogue Squadron III: Rebel Strike (GameCube)
Factor 5 produced amazing looking games for the time, and got more out of the Gamecube hardware than anyone else. Their games though, despite the technical brilliance, were always on the weak side.
Re: Miyamoto: Fresh Experiences Make A New Game, Not New Characters
How does what Miyamoto said tally with Super Mario 3D World and the next Donkey Kong Country game? Or perhaps Animal Crossing on the 3DS. All excellent games no doubt, but original they most certainly are not.
Mario Galaxy was a new take on the Mario character, but even more interesting than that, was the original Pikmin. Innovation is not only more interesting that re-hashes, but it's also incredibly easy. You just need a functioning imagination, and the courage to believe in your creation. Sadly Nintendo seems to either run out of ideas, or is in survival mode and is playing it very, very safely.
Re: Poll: How Important is Dual / Second Screen Gaming?
I've never understood the whole second screen thing. When I read that most people now watch TV whilst looking at their iPad/iPhone at the same time I despair. If the TV show or movie you're watching is so dull that you'd sooner browse some trivial social media nonsense, then you might want to find a better TV show or movie to watch instead.
When I'm watching TV or a movie, or playing a game, that's the only thing I'm doing. If the content isn't interesting enough, I put something else on instead.
As for Nintendo's dual screen efforts, it made no sense to me when I first saw the DS and it still makes no sense to me. All I see are a bunch of in game maps or an empty 2nd screen, save for a few scores and other trivia. It's a waste of battery power and makes the system far more bulky. Had the Vita had the games the 3DS does, I wouldn't consider the 3DS for a micro second.
Re: Iwata Says He Didn't Commit to Stepping Down Over Missed Profit Targets
Iwata seems like a very nice guy, but someone might have to take the blame for the spectacular failure that is the Wii U. It's making the GameCube look like a glorious success.
There must be some pretty stressful meetings going on in Kyoto now. Who made the decision to build a current gen console when the current generation was 8 years old, has seen declining sales for years, and is about to be replaced? Who thought bundling a massive super low end tablet would appeal to gamers? Why has the system lost most of it's third party support, with the little that remains on the way out? And why was the Wii U given so little advertising time, and the few ads that were aired, were all awful...
It's a train wreck and there can't be any but the most die hard of fans who think it can be salvaged. Nintendo of course, has plenty of money in the bank, and the 3DS is doing well enough in Japan to stay afloat for a while. Long term though, things need to change at Nintendo, and I bet they'll follow SEGA into becoming a software only dev within a 2-3 years.
Re: Video: Reggie Shows Off Wii U to Jimmy Fallon, Hilarity Ensues
@P-Gamer-C There will always be a market for hardcore games, but sales have been in decline for years. With increased budgets next-gen, it will be even more vital for studios to make every game they produce a mega hit, as the alternative could be financial oblivion.
Personally I see the market splitting into two even more distinct groups. There would be a lot of small to medium sized devs, who produce smaller, more innovative games on any platform which makes sense to do so. Then there would be a few giant publishers who will spend obscene amounts of money on games which are technically well produced, but also "safe". (ie. COD clones and sports games)
I think the middle ground - devs who target consoles but don't have the budget to make COD/Assassins Creed level games, will disappear.
I hope I'm wrong, but this is certainly the way the market is headed right now.
Re: Video: Reggie Shows Off Wii U to Jimmy Fallon, Hilarity Ensues
@P-Gamer-C I doubt the Wii U will survive beyond the end of next year. That said, it will be interesting to see how the Xbox One and PS4 do after the initial hype has died down. The console market has been in steep decline for years now. A new generation may help, but looking at the launch titles they're very much more of the same. (with the exception of the Sony Indie stuff)
The trend is towards mobile - iOS and Android. You may not like it, but that's the way gaming is going.
Re: Video: Reggie Shows Off Wii U to Jimmy Fallon, Hilarity Ensues
@WaveBoy According to this site, Wind Waker is 30fps - http://www.gamersyde.com/news_e3_wind_waker_gameplay-14237_en.html
It's early days of course, but it would be absurd for such an old game, and one which renders so few polys, to not run at 60fps.
Re: Video: Reggie Shows Off Wii U to Jimmy Fallon, Hilarity Ensues
@b23cdq Where on earth do you get this stuff from? The majority of X360 and PS3 games render 720p, more so on the 360 than the PS3 due to the Xenos having a higher fill rate than the RSX. Somes games (Call of Duty being one) render sub HD then upscale. By the way, when multi-plat games are analysed (see Digital Foundry) sub-HD games such as COD are also sub-HD on Wii U.
There are a smattering of 1080p games on the 360 and PS3, but not many. The PixelJunk games on PS3 are all 1080p, but of course, they're just simple 2D games.
There isn't enough fill rate in these old GPUs (Wii U included) to render much at 1080p. With the next-gen systems we'll see more 1080p stuff, but personally I expect there will still be a fair bit of 720p around, especially for games that want to run at 60fps. If you really want that perfect 1080/60 in all games, you're going to need a modern PC GPU.
Re: Video: Reggie Shows Off Wii U to Jimmy Fallon, Hilarity Ensues
@Schprocket I don't recall ever seeing the PS3 and Xbox 360 sold as 'full HD', just as 'HD'.
You'd be hard pressed to find a 720p TV on sale now, except perhaps with very small sizes, and the extreme end of the bargain plasmas. 1080p has been essentially standard for years now in new TVs.
Regardless, these terms are defined, and 'full HD' means 1080p. Nintendo shouldn't use the term if they can't back it up with even their own 1st party software.
Re: Video: Reggie Shows Off Wii U to Jimmy Fallon, Hilarity Ensues
It's a little disingenuous for Reggie to say the games are in 'full HD'. Rayman will be 1080p, and maybe a smattering of others, but the vast majority of Wii U games are in 720p, including 100% of Nintendo's own output.
Re: Time: Nintendo Is "Stumped" By The Wii U GamePad And Should Ditch It
I can see why Nintendo thought the gamepad was a good idea - the rise in tablets and the short attention span/second screen stuff, and the ability to bring a touch screen to console gaming.
In practice though, it wasn't well thought out or implemented. The Wii Gamepad is a terrible tablet, far worse than even a cheap Android tablet, let alone an iPad. No tablet other than the absolute bottom end of the bargain bin has a resistive touch screen, and yet, the Wii U uses than antiquated tech.
As a feature for devs, it's a map screen and little more. Is it better to look away from the screen to look an in-game map, or just look at the on-screen mini map in the corner?
It's a gimmick too far, and just as we've seen Nintendo pull back pushing the headache inducing gimmicky 3D in the 3DS, it's pulling back from the gamepad.
If Nintendo has any hope of bringing the Wii U back from the brink, I'd say it should ditch the gamepad and just ship the Wii with the pro controller, and embrace indies in as loving a way as possible. Make it effectively a steam box - filled to bursting point with new, innovative, and low cost games. Make it the essential second console.
Re: First Impressions: Super Mario 3D World
@Kirk Good lighting can transform any game, it's incredibly important. To say good lighting is of no benefit is frankly absurd.
Go and play with lighting in 3DS Max or Maya. Try a scene with and without GI. The difference is night and day.
Re: First Impressions: Super Mario 3D World
@Kirk The lighting has no bounce, ambient occlusion, and no global illumination. It also has simple projected shadows with no penumbra. This is typical of realtime lighting on current gen hardware.
Mario Kart on Wii uses lightmaps to achieve those effects, albeit at the expense of precalculated light maps. The difference should be really easy to see - the lighting in Mario 3D looks flat and simplistic. Areas are either fully lit or in shadow, and when they're in shadow, they have no directionality at all. In Mario Kart, even shadowed areas look interesting due to the bounce and AO. With GI, it gives everything a cohesive look.
For next gen realtime lighting, look at a game like Ubi's The Division.
Re: First Impressions: Super Mario 3D World
@MrWalkieTalkie You didn't notice the lack of AO, GI, and bounce in the lighting?
The lighting is really weak in this. The worlds also look very confined and small. Compare it to Mario Kart, the difference in scale is dramatic.
Re: First Impressions: Super Mario 3D World
I'm sure this will play wonderfully, as most Mario games do, but it's so devoid of originality as to be pretty unexciting.
Also it's interesting to see just how dramatically prettier Mario Kart is. It's not just that Mario Kart is light mapped with some nice GI and Mario 3D world is realtime lit, even the amount of geo on screen is far higher in Mario Kart. Both are 60fps too, and Mario Kart is even 60 in split screen mode.
Re: Talking Point: Nintendo's Wii U Lineup Makes Commercial Sense
It's telling that Nintendo chose to show only established franchises. Does that mean they have nothing new in development internally? If they're relying on third parties to deliver new experiences, then their rapidly dwindling pool of support must be causing many sleepless nights.
To my eyes Sony are the clear favourite to win the next generation. They have the best hardware, they're not forcing motion control on people, the price is high but just about low enough to still sell, and the line-up of games looks to be a good mix between mega budget and indie. If only they had shown The Last Guardian...
Re: Talking Point: Nintendo Should Aim to Produce Mature, Genre-Defining Storytelling Experiences
Owning all the systems is the only way to go if you want all the best games. It's been that way pretty much since the dawn of gaming, and it probably always will be.
Re: Feature: Our Top 10 3DS Games - Summer 2013
Mario 3D and Fire Emblem for me.
I'm looking forward to Project X Zone and Bravely Default. I love these obscure Japanese RPGs and SRPGs. It's too bad the good ones are pretty much exclusive to handhelds now, with the exception of the Disgaea series of course. I guess there just isn't the money in such games to pay for full console dev on one.
Re: Shin'en: Wii U Has Enough Power For Years To Come, GPU Is "Several Generations" Ahead of Current Consoles
@MadAdam81 I think you're confusing terminology. There are essentially three parts to a game. There are the platform specific parts, which include GPU specific code, CPU specific code, TRC requirements, online, and input, the multi-platform game 'engine', which includes AI, scripting, control, animation, and various other common elements, and then there are assets. (which typically have two tiers - PC and console)
A Wii U port of any game needs lots of console specific changes to make it run. The multi-platform game engine stuff you can port. That leaves the assets, which can be swapped in and out however you like.
It's not a complete package. It's modular.
Re: Shin'en: Wii U Has Enough Power For Years To Come, GPU Is "Several Generations" Ahead of Current Consoles
@MadAdam81 In game development assets are nearly always authored to a higher resolution than will be seen on console hardware. This is done for use on the PC version, for promotional renders, and simply as insurance 'just in case'.
Assuming the pipeline supports it, it's trivial to push higher end assets to new platforms, as would certainly of been the case with Black Ops 2. Therefore had the Wii U version been able to run with higher res textures (the system has more RAM than the 360 and PS3), then they should have been present. The fact that they weren't, implies that there are bandwidth issues on the GPU.
In the case of the Sonic karting game, the console versions ran sub 720p, which is a common technique used when a game is fillrate limited. Simply put, by rendering fewer pixels, the GPU finishes quicker, and gets you closer to your target 33ms frame time. If the Wii U's GPU really was significantly more powerful than the Xenos or RSX, then it should have more fill rate, and so be able to render in 720p, if not 1080p. Changing the size of the frame buffer is not a big change for the code team, and would certainly have been done if the GPU had been able to handle it.
Of course it's not quite that simple. There are always ways to optimise shaders, and it could be that some of the shaders which worked well on Xenos and RSX were simply performing poorly on the Wii U's GPU. We've obviously got no way to know that.
However it's clearly not a good start that games designed for 8 year old vintage hardware run little better, and sometimes worse, on Nintendo's supposedly 'next-gen' hardware. The logical conclusion then, is that the Wii U is seriously underpowered, and stands no chance of running games which target PS4 and Xbox One.
Re: Shin'en: Wii U Has Enough Power For Years To Come, GPU Is "Several Generations" Ahead of Current Consoles
@MadAdam81 According to Digital Foundry, the Wii U version of Black Ops had far more slow down than any other version.
Obviously early days and probably a quick port, but even a quick port should run well if the hardware is powerful enough.
Other ports struggled too, such as the Sonic karting game, which ran at the same low res as the Xbox version. That's probably a lack of GPU fill-rate, which if the Wii U's GPU was really 'generations ahead' of the Xenos, wouldn't be an issue.
Re: Shin'en: Wii U Has Enough Power For Years To Come, GPU Is "Several Generations" Ahead of Current Consoles
I hope for Nintendo's sake this is true, but it's the polar opposite of what every other dev has said. There are reasons why Unreal 4 and Frostbite 3 are not on the Wii U, and financial reasons are are only part of that story.
It's also telling that even first party games such as Pikmin look essentially like Wii games with spec maps. I believe the game did begin in the Wii, but there are very many ways to easily make things look current-gen, and very few are on display in Pikmin. Textures are very low res, and there are no parallax, normal, displacement, incandescence, gloss, or AO maps. It doesn't even use FXAA or MLAA, which has been standard in 360/PS3 games for a few years now.
When I look at launch PS4 games like KIllzone, I can already see plenty of processing and effects, not to mention geometry density which are a good way ahead of current gen. And that's a launch game.
Re: Shin'en Multimedia Defends The Wii U Hardware
@fzerofan I've worked in game dev for many years, and have discussed the Wii U with programmers who have published games on the system. These guys have also worked extensively on the X360 and PS3. They all say the same thing - the CPU is terrible and far weaker than other current gen systems.
Or if you like, you could just read the detailed comparisons of Wii U games vs 360/PS3 on digital foundry. When CPU load increases, Wii U games slow down.
Re: Shin'en Multimedia Defends The Wii U Hardware
@MadAdam81 Sorry but this is getting embarrassing. Need for Speed got some higher res textures due to the Wii U having more RAM.
The X1 and the PS4 are next-gen systems, a whole cycle ahead in CPU, GPU, RAM speed and quantity, and OS features. Even once you factor in losing 2gb to the OS the PS4 still has 6gb remaining, and it's super quick GDDR5.
Re: Shin'en Multimedia Defends The Wii U Hardware
@fzerofan Some games have been able to wrong some minor graphical improvements out of the Wii U through its extra RAM. The 360 and PS3 are extremely constrained on memory, the Wii U, not so much.
However it's simply wrong to say that the CPU is on par with other current gen systems. Whichever measurement you want to look at, it's a far slower chip on paper and in practice.
Re: Need For Speed Rivals Not Screeching Onto Wii U
@ThumperUK You'll be disappointed to hear that Frostbite is being rolled out as the standard engine for all EA studios to use.
Re: Shin'en Multimedia Defends The Wii U Hardware
@Meaty-cheeky When real time visuals are indistinguishable from real life, then we can stop moving forwards. I'm sure you'll agree that we're still a very long way from achieving that. Even pre-rendered visuals have many years of development ahead of them before they can shoot for photo realism.
Re: Shin'en Multimedia Defends The Wii U Hardware
What an incredibly asinine quote. So the guy is essentially saying the Wii U is next gen, because it's better than the Wii. Well technically, yes, it's the next generation of Nintendo hardware, but he's literally the only dev who has ever said it's more powerful than the 360. Dozens of others have already written the Wii U off as being less powerful than current gen.
The Wii U's achilles' heel, is it's incredibly weak CPU. It's an evolution of the same CPU used in the Wii, which itself was a clocked up Gamecube CPU. It's enormously slower than the CPUs in the 360 and PS3. This leads to slowdown in CPU intensive situations (such as when many characters are on screen at once), and limits how much devs can do with physics.
On the GPU front it's more comparable with the 360 and PS3, but it's in no possible sense anywhere near the level of the PS3 and Xbox One GPUs.
I get the argument that games are all that matters, that's fine, but that's very different from saying the Wii U is next gen from a hardware standpoint, because it just isn't.
Re: Capcom USA Senior VP Responds to Ace Attorney Concerns
It's disappointing that this now a niche series which is difficult to sell in the West, but then again, so is Fire Emblem, and that did well recently, so there may yet be hope.
The digital release thing is fine with me, as I only buy 3DS games digitally anyway. I've left physical media behind, and am glad to see the back of it. It's not just the extra convenience, but it sends a strong environmental message too.
Re: Nintendo Confirms Smash Bros., 3D Mario and Mario Kart for E3 Nintendo Direct
@Saturn Ah, I was wondering when it would come to that. It's not pretty.
I have a 3DS XL and have owned every Nintendo console since the SNES, but I don't own a Wii U for obvious reasons. I want to see Nintendo succeed as the games industry needs them. Their production values are first class and they still make the kind of old school games which can be hard to find on other platforms.
However I'm not blinkered, it's plain to see that Nintendo have made mistakes, especially with the Wii U, and they're in a lot of trouble now. I'd like to see them innovate their way out, but instead they're taking the conservative route with endless sequels.
I like new things, I like original ideas and concepts, I like to be surprised. There's nothing surprising about yet another Mario Kart, Gran Turismo, or Gears of War.
Re: Nintendo Confirms Smash Bros., 3D Mario and Mario Kart for E3 Nintendo Direct
@Saturn The 3DS does well in Japan because it has sold Japanese support. It gets some Western third party support, but not a great deal.
The Wii U has no third party support anywhere, so it's in a far worse position. It crucially lacks an easy to sell gimmick this time too, so it will rely entirely on it's software for sales, and as even the most die hard Nintendo fan would surely admit, the Wii U has little software of interest. Maybe that will change, who knows, but right now, there are already more games announced for a console which hasn't been released (the PS4), than there are for the Wii U.
Re: Nintendo Confirms Smash Bros., 3D Mario and Mario Kart for E3 Nintendo Direct
@Saturn I guess you missed my post when I reeled of a load of original Sony IP.
Nintendo first party games sell to Nintendo fans. Fine, that's a dwindling but still useful source of income, but it's not enough long term. To succeed long term, you need to bring third party devs on board, and you need a platform which sells to everyone, not just a tiny niche.
The Wii U is a failure, and third party support, what little there was, has already abandoned the platform. Let's check back in a couple of years and see where the sales are, I suspect the Wii U will already have been discontinued. It's even more of a failure than the Dreamcast was. (a console I loved, but sadly a total disaster in terms of sales, which resulted in it's early termination)
I suspect that the next Xbox will be on top in a few years, as it's focussing strongly on video/TV stuff, which is a huge growing market. Everyone now has a Netflix (etc) app, but I think Microsoft will go much further. We'll see in a couple of days.
Re: Nintendo Confirms Smash Bros., 3D Mario and Mario Kart for E3 Nintendo Direct
@Marshi Game and Wario is a sequel to the Warioware games. Nintendo land is of course casual focussed, and to me at least, uninteresting.
Did you hear me defending God of War or Gran Turismo?
I'd just like to see a mix from Nintendo. Say, 50% totally original games, and 50% sequels to keep the fans happy. Right now the balance is skewed massively towards sequels. If you never want to see anything new, then fine, you'll love Nintendo's approach.
Re: Nintendo Confirms Smash Bros., 3D Mario and Mario Kart for E3 Nintendo Direct
@Marshi Listing a bunch of sequels doesn't really work when arguing against someone who wants fewer sequels. Nor does listing games from companies other than Nintendo.
There is a place for 'more of the same', if done well, and Nintendo's endless sequels are usually done very well. There is also a place for innovation.
I have a 3DS XL and I've been enjoying Nintendo's sequels - Fire Emblem especially - but I'd sooner have something completely original and surprising. For games like that, I have to look to Sony. (Who obviously, as you pointed out, make plenty of 'playing it safe' sequels too)
Can you imagine the excitement and interest in Wii U, if instead of announcing yet another Smash Bros etc, Nintendo had announced a slate of totally new ideas and concepts?
Re: Nintendo Confirms Smash Bros., 3D Mario and Mario Kart for E3 Nintendo Direct
@Marshi The Wii was a gimmick designed to sell the console to casuals whose interest in gaming extends little further than getting the console out of the cupboard once a year when the relatives come round. It's the equivalent of Monopoly of Cluedo.
The Wii U is a failed attempt to cash in on the current popularity of real tablets like the iPad. Neither of those gimmicks did anything for real gamers, and in the case of the Wii, shoehorning in flappy hand motion controls actively damaged gaming.
As for Sony, they've often been innovative for many years now, and in the only way that matters - in games. A few examples - Journey, Flower, Locoroco, Little Big Planet, The Last Guy, ICO, Shadow of the Colossus, Patapon, Tokyo Jungle, and upcoming games such as Rain, Tearaway, and Puppeteer look interesting too. Sony are also embracing indie gaming very actively now.
The way I see it, the three platform holders now have three distinct identities. Nintendo exist purely to serve their remaining fanbase through endless sequels. Microsoft are mostly interested in making a fancy Netflix streamer, and Sony are the last console maker standing which is still interested in originality in gaming.
Re: Nintendo Confirms Smash Bros., 3D Mario and Mario Kart for E3 Nintendo Direct
It must be pretty easy working in planning at Nintendo's Japanese dev offices. The plan is the same for every console - make a new version of all our franchises, then do the same again 5 years later. What was the last original Nintendo game? Pikmin? (I'm not including casual junk like Wii Sports for obvious reasons) How many years ago was that?
Innovation, originality, and new thinking used to be Nintendo's raison d'être, but no more it seems. For originality, Sony are now the platform holder to watch - especially their Japan studio.
Re: Nintendo Direct: Watch The North American Presentation Live
The frame rate in that Sonic winter games thing was diabolical. I hope they have a LOT of optimisation planned.
Re: Konami: We Had To Take Risks With Castlevania To Prevent It Becoming Like Mega Man
I thought Lords of Shadow was at best a mediocre God of War clone with an abysmal camera, terrible frame rate, and a total lack of character and personality. In it's defense, it did at least look really good.
Why can't we just get a proper Castlevania game on a non portable console? Is it too much to ask?