Yeah all modern tech has some lag. The only game that bothers me a little is Mario Kart. Still playable, but the handling seems slippery to me whereas on a crt it's very tight. But that's a game I love and play alot.
All the clone consoles on the market suck though because they are trying to reproduce old hardware with new parts.
Also Nintendo has emulators and they are at least releasing SNES emulation on the Switch with the online plan. So at worst this is really trying out the emulator with the public to see what they should release with the Switch.
The snes jr had different components though and had some issues playing certain games.
I really think you are underestimating how much $ building a 30 year old chip would cost much less shrinking it. No manufacturing companies are set up to produce those chips and none of those dies exist. It would be very costly for an item that probably will sell only 10 million. Not withstanding it doesn't actually fix a big issue using old analogue consoles with digital displays. There's a reason for the XRGB $300 scaler market. And that's because usually the cheap digital converters work really poorly. Here they are just using over the counter parts to produce a digital signal upfront.
It would be very costly to reproduce them. Even more costly to pay the r&d to shrink them. It's very good for what it is. Which is an $80 emulator box. FGPA solutions which emulate hardware like the AVS and analogue nt mini will be available soon and will provide excellent hardware emulation. But they'll cost more than $80.
8bitdo is releasing the SN30 and SF30 controllers which have the standard SNES controller look and are wireless at the same price at $25. It does have the ability to access the menu by pressing down and start.
@sleepinglion The 8bitdo one is the normal SNES controller layout.
I finally broke down and bought it. Using an older like 10 year old 720p plasma. Not sure how it handles over scan or if it's adjustable but it does not show the full screen it cuts off on all 4 boarders. Anybody else have this issue? In the Switch menu I adjust the screen size to 95% to fit my screen, but it doesn't seem to have any impact on this game. Not the hugest issue in the world but it makes the onscreen overlays unviewable.
Hardware emulation removes lag. I.E. the AVS or Analogue NT Mini via fpga boards. There's also lag free scaling of original hardware with the OSSC. I've beaten Punchout on on my AVS on modern TVs whereas I can't can't come close on the NES mini. That game is essentially broken on the mini. That said, the SNES mini doesn't have any games that truly require a high reaction time so it should be good for the games it has. Super Mario Kart doesn't feel right with VC type lag to me but it seems most don't notice it and I can still beat it.
I don't understand the 5 gb save. I think the bigger problem though is Nintendo forcing saves to internal memory which can't be expanded.
I'm not sure a bigger cart really solves the issue on a day 1 patch. I'd prefer no day 1 patch but this has become common as developers try to hit tight deadlines. No cart is going to be re-writable. So if you aren't okay with large patches being released then you'll have to be okay with the Switch version being released months after the other versions.
You're in computer parts sales so honest question. I didn't understand why Nintendo wouldnt release the Switch with 4 or 8 GB flash just for the OS and a 64 or 128 GB microsd. Since flash is so many times more costly it seems like this would be cost neutral while providing a great deal more storage for the consumer. The only positive I could see is the flash is faster, but it's marginally faster and doesn't seem to be large enough to really take advantage of it being faster.
I'm skeptical. What made RE4 great was pointer controls, not motion controls. And I'm not sure exactly how the switch could mimic pointer controls. So we'll see.
I really hope if you're a parent that you don't tell a scared child to prove something to you or you might be the worst parent ever. If my child was scare of something that didn't exist I would go about proving it not existing to them. Go in the closet show them nothing is hidinbyg there, ect. There are ways to prove things don't exist.
However, this is a nonsense comparison. I have an sd card, you have an sd card, many on here have an sd card. We know demand exists we just don't know how much so trying to get me to prove things that don't exist exist is another fallacy since my argument hinges in no way on the boogeyman existing. Companies spend millions trying to determine demand and they often have incomplete trailing information from that expense. Please research why fallacy arguments don't actually prove what you are intending and are bad arguments. You say market demand is provable. If you could prove that market demand for a Switch sd is less than 10% of owners, that would be extremely strong support for your position. Your position isn't impossible to defend, you just refuse to defend it or acknowledge the limitations of what you are trying to ask.
I warned you about cussing. Resorting to name calling and whatever new fallacious argument you are trying to make with the boogeyman doesn't help your argument either. Providing actual proof would and fallacies are actually determined based on the philosophy of common sense.
I'll let you in on a secret before you go looking for digital download numbers. You won't find them. Nintendo doesn't release them. But Zelda, MK8, Splatoon2, Arms have all been high on the top sellers chart on the eshop since they've been available. If you downloaded Zelda and MK8 (the Tie ratio suggests almost everybody has those), you'll have to pick either Arms or Splatoon because you can't fit all 4. Unless of course you get a microsd card, but nobody does that do they? Then of course there is Mario Odyssey which might be a popular title to download too. I'm actually curious how big the patches for Arms and Splat 2 will end being since they are releasing a good amount of content for those games post physical release versus Zelda which was basically patches for glitches and framerate improvement.
You've been trying to engage me in the argument of ignorance for multiple posts. Pretty classic case of it. If you need help with the definition I can explain it further and why it's not a good tool to use in arguments. I've maintained all along that there is no proof for what you are asking for and you've not tried to prove your side of the case. Not sure what else you want from me. Pointing out that you are using fallacies for your argument just makes me educated, not a madman. If you don't like it don't use them. You're the only one I've called out on this thread for it so whatevs.
I didn't claim victory but admitted that I couldn't prove what I was arguing and now you are crying because I said you couldn't prove what you are arguing. Most people don't use fallacious reasoning to try to win arguments but here we are. shrug
Your argument is argument from ignorance. Pretty appropriate name for your debate skills eh?
Background you can't prove something. So you set the premise to be that so and so must prove something and when they can't, the conclusion is you are right. The premise is false because you can't prove what you are arguing. The conclusion is false because my ability to prove or inability to prove anything does nothing to validate your argument in any way. Just an FYI.
Those are interesting opinions that you list that I've countered above but I'll give you a couple more thoughts on them before seeing if you have any facts. NBA 2K18 is pretty equal to the hd twins. Sure slightly lower framerate, but all modes, all versions, all DLC, max resolution on Switch. Pretty big risk for TT. We know Switch demand is more than supply right now but we don't really know how high it is. But if you know if it's going to sell 100 million already that'd be interesting to know. Almost all games "require" (using that term loosely because they'll auto download patches if you're connected to the internet) storage usage. Zelda uses about 500 MB for the physical cart which while not a huge amount is still about 2% of the available space. Your argument also ignores digital downloads of which Zelda has been a big seller and will use over 50% of your available space or the DLC for Zelda which if you were highly satisfied with Zelda (as most were) you probably got the DLC.
You and I both know that neither of us can obtain exact usage of extra memory for the Switch, Wii U, 3DS or any system. Your whole argument is a fallacy. If you argue that you can prove the data then prove me wrong. Otherwise stop wasting precious space on this message board. The digital trees are crying here.
I argued there are scenarios it's beneficial. That's an opinion which isn't proovable because the market data I'm able to get is more representational than definitive. This is a website where opinions are welcome so I shouldn't have to deal with your hostility on those points.
You're argument is that I'm wrong. That is a fact. That's different than disagreeing with an interpretation of non-definitive facts. If you are going to make up facts you can't back up then maybe you shouldn't use the internet.
Also don't cuss. This is a family site. I look forward to your proof that there is 100% no scenario that makes sense for Nintendo to package an sd card with the Switch to back your stated fact.
Businesses assumptions aren't always correct so they don't always work in their best interest. The Wii U is a perfect example. Nintendo's models showed it would sell and be a profit machine. It didn't.
You have no proof I'm on the wrong side of the argument. You have no proof that including an sdcard would not be beneficial for them. I made a rational argument so quit your silly send your argument to Nintendo waste of space. Your argument is sdcard usage is niche. My argument was it's not and even if it was the math can still make sense. If you disagree thats fine, if you still don't understand I don't care.
I am curious how you'd explain the case of the Wii U though. To your point Nintendo consumers don't download stuff. Yet they overwhelmingly picked up the 32 GB version (essentially a free flash upgrade since Nintendoland was the $50 difference) to the point that the 8 GB version was immediately discountinued and clearenced by retailers for well below msrp prices. It seems your argument would be A. Nintendo was irrational for making a bundle with higher memory and B. Consumers are irrational for overwhelmingly going for the bundle. Of which even if we assume consumers irrationally want more memory than they need it still makes sense to cater to those consumers since they are spending $ on our product.
You repeatedly calling me dumb and this topic blowing up means people don't give a crap about sd cards? Okay, whatever. Reality is though it can be niche and make a profit. They probably only need 20% of the people to download one game to make it worth giving every one a sdcard. 20% too high? What about 5% downloading 4 games each? Or 1 out of 70 people deciding to go all digital and downloading 10 games. The math can work to profit Nintendo even if it's niche.
There is a right answer, but you're right neither of us can determine which best that is. I have a hard time with you calling it loss leader because in fact they are not losing money on the switch either way. At some point they reviewed all their options to maximize profit which included adding more value to the package or raising/lowering price and I bet considering adding an SD card was one of those things they considered. Are they right not to? Who knows, but it seemed like you were replying it was irrational to even consider it.
I understood you correctly. Can't misplace something you didn't touch. And my argument was replace the expensive flash memory for a 128 GB sd card. That would have been cheaper for them and supposedly they wouldn't have shortages now because Apple wouldn't be snapping up all those 32 GB flash modules.
Companies don't always make a profit. Nintendo lost money for 4 straight years because they couldn't sell the Wii U at a profit. The goal is maximum profit which involves a variety of things such as how many you can sell at a given price point. Nintendo thought the Switch would maximize profit at $300. Where they right? They weren't on the Wii U. Given the shortages they probably wish they started at $350.
So is it worth it to throw in a $3 sd card for the given price? Maybe. You can't discuss maximum profit without looking at consumer preference. Including more storage helps move consumer demand towards downloadable content. Downloadable content is more profitable by a wide margin. You could certainly come to the conclusion that throwing in a $3 sdcard could add more profit to the transaction. I preordered NBA 2K18 for the Switch for $38 from Bestbuy. Did they sell it to me at a loss? In your words, inconceivable. Thus the retailer is taking a huge cut. It's in Nintendo's best interest to limit that cut. Nintendo could incentivize people to move towards download better than they are for sure. Either way Nintendo is making a nice profit on the Switch with or without a sdcard.
Okay Mr. Economics. At least you dropped your dumb people will lose an sdcard they will never touch argument. Now you want to add something to this board or just continue personal attacks because you didn't like me not agreeing with you.
But it's alot cheaper for Nintendo to buy SD cards than a consumer. It's also not entirely true that the cost of the item leads to the price. Price is more nuanced with supply/demand. When the Switch launched the Japanese price converted to US $ was $260. What did we get for that $40 extra? Not a dang thing. And it's selling so Nintendo is cool with that.
If NBA 2K18 moves 1 million on the Switch, that would be about 15% of Switch owners and would be alot of people needing microsd cards. Certainly not as niche as you make it seen. And you know it's only the first game to announce this there will be others and AAA will sell on the Switch even if it's not as much as the HD twins. If any consumer intends to go download only they'll need a microsd. 10 years ago that was niche, today it's not so much.
What's your thoughts on a future microsd bundle? Certainly if that happens it's an admission that 32 GB isn't enough for the average consumer by Nintendo. They know who is using microsd and who isn't.
NBA 2k17 sold 8.5 million last year. It's a very popular game and a portable version of it will likely be popular and it will likely lead NPD in September. I don't think you're right on me being the minority. The Switch is about expanding to more than just the 13 million Wii U owners. It's about expanding to the average consumer. The average consumer wants these types of games as noted by it being the highest selling game of the month. And I just disagree about the difficulty of putting a microsd card in a slot. If you've ever used a computer you can do it. The average consumer does it all the time. I think it's very likely that the Switch gets bundled with a microsd in the future and I'd be curious in say 2020 the number of Switch consoles that people are frequently using that don't have one in it.
Well you've not done a convincing job convincing me that 32 GB is enough so I guess we are even. Seriously though NBA 2k18 is just the first. If you want third party AAA games you will need one. This is proof. That's just to play 1 game on a system.
Ironically though the 3DS XL came with 4 GB of memory. The resolution of the Switch is 10.8 times that of the 3DS. So a comparable number would be 43.8 GB storage. Compensate for the much larger OS and you are at 50 GB. But even then you are just matching the memory of a handheld released 6 years ago when home consoles typically have larger games. Breath of Wild is a perfect example. There is no game on the 3DS close to the scope of that.
To me it's silly to spend $60 on a download of NBA 2k18 versus $38 for the physical where I can pre-order that at Best Buy right now. It also helps on the microsd side assuming it's a 10 GB download versus a 25 GB download as mentioned above. I bought a 128 GB card so I'm hoping that lasts me this generation and eating up 1/5th of the card on 1 game doesn't show promise.
Lol, I am a gamer and I'm in business which is why I can see that we as consumers are getting the short end of the stick. My original argument was the Switch could have came with one like the 3DS. The 3DS had the microsd card in it and it required some skill to remove the back panel to upgrade it. This could have been the same way.
You still can't seem to grasp that Switch needing a microsd card is a thing now. So by not including it, it just became more complicated for the consumer because many will have to do it which is what you think Nintendo is protecting them from. And as discussed above the attach ratio suggests it's highly likely if you own a Switch you own MK8 and Zelda. If you own those two games digitally your internal storage is done and requires you to get a microsd card to download more games. This is way different than the 500 gb solution for PS4, Xbone. It is possible that there is someone who could get 10 games on those systems and not actually need another hard drive. Sure I got another one right away as I am a gamer and knew it would be insufficient, but this is worse than the 500 GB limit because almost everybody is going to buy more than 2 games for a system. So it affects a great deal more people than just us gamers and it drops to 1 game for a system if you want NBA 2k18 and it won't be the only game that does this.
If the choice was pay $10 more per game or pay $20 one time for additional microsd storage that can service multiple games, I'm picking the microsd everytime.
Flash drives are not even remotely similar to a microsd on a handheld. You stick it in it and never think of it again vs a computer where you only use it to move data between computers. If I lose my microsd it's because I've lost my switch.
Microsd is essential if you want to play some switch games just like joycons are required for some switch games. I bought a microsd and stuck it in my switch and never had to look for it. I've not lost a joycon yet, but I've spent much time looking for it. Nintendo even updated their OS to help you find lost joycons. The lost argument is a lost cause for you my friend.
Almost every gamer has mk8 and zelda. If you dl those and want to download arms you are out of luck. Storage that only allows 2 games is pretty worthless to me. Even 128 sd card would be a huge improvement.
Do you have a microsd card in your switch. Not easy at all to lose unless you are swapping them out constantly. Plus as games are requiring a microsd now it seems your comment about losing them is pretty invalid. I mean joycons are very easy to lose should nintendo have not included them?
They could have dropped the flash since it wasn't enough to be usable and included a microsd card of 256 or 512. That should have been cost neutral for them by dropping the flash and they've used that strategy before on the 3ds so it's not unthinkable.
I'll probably double dip. I'm getting the Switch version now and will get the steam version when it goes on a huge sale since that will be the best version and the switch has mobile.
The comments are funny to me though. If FPS and resolution are that important to y'all you shouldn't be getting console games, only pc games.
I'm surprised the negativity surrounding this. I always thought this was something to mess around with, not to replace the original game. There will always be something about original music, but sometimes new ways to look at old games can be good too.
Pre-alpha and post alpha by definition are more about how the developer defines it. Arms version 2.0 is live now. Nintendo very well could have called that alpha version 1.0 but they didn't. The last game I bought early access was Dirt Rally. I bought it a couple months before it went gold. I could make a solid argument that it was more complete than splatoon 1 when it was released but if you only seem to be focused on if a game calls itself early access or not.
Most early access games play well and more about producing additional content rather than changing physics. Sure the physics can be tweaked but arms physics has already been tweaked as well. To me with splatoon and arms had enough content released after launch to indicate that they weren't finished. If you want to argue not finished is different than early access that's fine, but I'd rather have as finished a game as possible at launch.
"Pointing fingers to past practices only substantiates that something has happened before, not that something is currently true. Without substantial evidence that the Day One DLC is content cut from the game, any such claims are bogus and nothing but conjecture."
What you are asking for is something that only a few people in Ubisoft would know for sure. The asking for "proof" to back up ones opinion thing is overdone and a poor argument. I mean do you have proof that Ubisoft absolutely crammed everything into a $60 game they could? And they are cramming everything they can into the $20 DLC? Oh, you're just mad because Yorumi never claimed to have proof that you are demanding except past history which you claim is invalid here? I mean I wish we could all be naively optimistic over all things Switch but making yourself judge of opinions is probably not going to endear you to many here.
Perception matters and anytime a company announced DLC on a new IP before seeing if that new IP is actually successful is going to be a bad look. You shouldn't be upset at someone's opinion so much. This is a forum to discuss opinions. Maybe the game will prove to be well worth $60 and the DLC well worth $20 and this whole discussion dissapears much like the Zelda DLC. But until that time there's nothing wrong with being skeptical of the approach.
Except in the case where Nintendo is going. There two biggest new release games (Splatoon, Arms) are being released in parts with significant parts being released well past actual release. It's like early access beta on Steam.
Inflation is just 1 compoment. The large increase in the market well offsets any inflationary increases since a game is largely fixed cost and cost/game takes into account the sales the game makes. Also as the move into digital distribution has occured the middle man is more often getting squeezed out as well as lower distribution/boxing costs. Also as mentioned above tech has allowed companies to reduce manhours on certain components of development and the high amount of competition at this point means that margins will naturally decrease.
Don't worry all. The Walmart employee I asked about in-store preorders said that Nintendo is doing this right and the product won't be limited. 100% confirmed that anybody who wants one on day one will be able to get one.
Use istocknow. I live in a mid sized city and Walmart/Target have been very consistent getting stock of the Switch. I was able to use istocknow to grab a Switch in April when the shortages were stronger.
I think the stock is pretty close to be met in the US. I'm sure there are some parts that are out of stock. But we've had stock in my city the last three weeks. Until then all stock sold within a day or 2.
200 lumens is like a $2 single led flashlight though. Really only playable in the darkest conditions. In 99% of situations you'd be better off with 2 people looking at the handheld screen.
Comments 1,281
Re: Digital Foundry Does a Deep Dive on the Super NES Classic / SNES Mini Emulation
@samuelvictor
Yeah all modern tech has some lag. The only game that bothers me a little is Mario Kart. Still playable, but the handling seems slippery to me whereas on a crt it's very tight. But that's a game I love and play alot.
Re: Digital Foundry Does a Deep Dive on the Super NES Classic / SNES Mini Emulation
@BlueOcean
All the clone consoles on the market suck though because they are trying to reproduce old hardware with new parts.
Also Nintendo has emulators and they are at least releasing SNES emulation on the Switch with the online plan. So at worst this is really trying out the emulator with the public to see what they should release with the Switch.
Re: Digital Foundry Does a Deep Dive on the Super NES Classic / SNES Mini Emulation
@impurekind
The snes jr had different components though and had some issues playing certain games.
I really think you are underestimating how much $ building a 30 year old chip would cost much less shrinking it. No manufacturing companies are set up to produce those chips and none of those dies exist. It would be very costly for an item that probably will sell only 10 million. Not withstanding it doesn't actually fix a big issue using old analogue consoles with digital displays. There's a reason for the XRGB $300 scaler market. And that's because usually the cheap digital converters work really poorly. Here they are just using over the counter parts to produce a digital signal upfront.
Re: Digital Foundry Does a Deep Dive on the Super NES Classic / SNES Mini Emulation
@impurekind
It would be very costly to reproduce them. Even more costly to pay the r&d to shrink them. It's very good for what it is. Which is an $80 emulator box. FGPA solutions which emulate hardware like the AVS and analogue nt mini will be available soon and will provide excellent hardware emulation. But they'll cost more than $80.
Re: Hardware Review: Wireless Fighting Commander for SNES Classic By Hori
@JaxonH
8bitdo is releasing the SN30 and SF30 controllers which have the standard SNES controller look and are wireless at the same price at $25. It does have the ability to access the menu by pressing down and start.
@sleepinglion
The 8bitdo one is the normal SNES controller layout.
Re: SteamWorld Dig 2 Has Had the Biggest Launch in the IP's History
I finally broke down and bought it. Using an older like 10 year old 720p plasma. Not sure how it handles over scan or if it's adjustable but it does not show the full screen it cuts off on all 4 boarders. Anybody else have this issue? In the Switch menu I adjust the screen size to 95% to fit my screen, but it doesn't seem to have any impact on this game. Not the hugest issue in the world but it makes the onscreen overlays unviewable.
Re: The SNES Classic Mini Uses the Same Hardware as the NES Mini
@Heavyarms55
Gamecube mini...... YES!!!!!!
Re: The SNES Classic Mini Uses the Same Hardware as the NES Mini
@ACK
Hardware emulation removes lag. I.E. the AVS or Analogue NT Mini via fpga boards. There's also lag free scaling of original hardware with the OSSC. I've beaten Punchout on on my AVS on modern TVs whereas I can't can't come close on the NES mini. That game is essentially broken on the mini. That said, the SNES mini doesn't have any games that truly require a high reaction time so it should be good for the games it has. Super Mario Kart doesn't feel right with VC type lag to me but it seems most don't notice it and I can still beat it.
Re: Here's How Much Data You'll Need To Download For NBA 2K18 On Switch
@ThanosReXXX
I don't understand the 5 gb save. I think the bigger problem though is Nintendo forcing saves to internal memory which can't be expanded.
I'm not sure a bigger cart really solves the issue on a day 1 patch. I'd prefer no day 1 patch but this has become common as developers try to hit tight deadlines. No cart is going to be re-writable. So if you aren't okay with large patches being released then you'll have to be okay with the Switch version being released months after the other versions.
You're in computer parts sales so honest question. I didn't understand why Nintendo wouldnt release the Switch with 4 or 8 GB flash just for the OS and a 64 or 128 GB microsd. Since flash is so many times more costly it seems like this would be cost neutral while providing a great deal more storage for the consumer. The only positive I could see is the flash is faster, but it's marginally faster and doesn't seem to be large enough to really take advantage of it being faster.
Re: Oh Yes, Resident Evil Revelations Will Have Joy-Con Pointing and Waggling on Switch
I'm skeptical. What made RE4 great was pointer controls, not motion controls. And I'm not sure exactly how the switch could mimic pointer controls. So we'll see.
Re: Some Retail Nintendo Switch Games Will Require You To Own A MicroSD Card
@MsgBoardGamer
I really hope if you're a parent that you don't tell a scared child to prove something to you or you might be the worst parent ever. If my child was scare of something that didn't exist I would go about proving it not existing to them. Go in the closet show them nothing is hidinbyg there, ect. There are ways to prove things don't exist.
However, this is a nonsense comparison. I have an sd card, you have an sd card, many on here have an sd card. We know demand exists we just don't know how much so trying to get me to prove things that don't exist exist is another fallacy since my argument hinges in no way on the boogeyman existing. Companies spend millions trying to determine demand and they often have incomplete trailing information from that expense. Please research why fallacy arguments don't actually prove what you are intending and are bad arguments. You say market demand is provable. If you could prove that market demand for a Switch sd is less than 10% of owners, that would be extremely strong support for your position. Your position isn't impossible to defend, you just refuse to defend it or acknowledge the limitations of what you are trying to ask.
Re: Some Retail Nintendo Switch Games Will Require You To Own A MicroSD Card
@MsgBoardGamer
Profanity and yes. It's in at least two of your posts. You could edit them I suppose but my guess is NL still has a record of them.
Re: Some Retail Nintendo Switch Games Will Require You To Own A MicroSD Card
@MsgBoardGamer
I warned you about cussing. Resorting to name calling and whatever new fallacious argument you are trying to make with the boogeyman doesn't help your argument either. Providing actual proof would and fallacies are actually determined based on the philosophy of common sense.
I'll let you in on a secret before you go looking for digital download numbers. You won't find them. Nintendo doesn't release them. But Zelda, MK8, Splatoon2, Arms have all been high on the top sellers chart on the eshop since they've been available. If you downloaded Zelda and MK8 (the Tie ratio suggests almost everybody has those), you'll have to pick either Arms or Splatoon because you can't fit all 4. Unless of course you get a microsd card, but nobody does that do they? Then of course there is Mario Odyssey which might be a popular title to download too. I'm actually curious how big the patches for Arms and Splat 2 will end being since they are releasing a good amount of content for those games post physical release versus Zelda which was basically patches for glitches and framerate improvement.
Re: Some Retail Nintendo Switch Games Will Require You To Own A MicroSD Card
@MsgBoardGamer
You've been trying to engage me in the argument of ignorance for multiple posts. Pretty classic case of it. If you need help with the definition I can explain it further and why it's not a good tool to use in arguments. I've maintained all along that there is no proof for what you are asking for and you've not tried to prove your side of the case. Not sure what else you want from me. Pointing out that you are using fallacies for your argument just makes me educated, not a madman. If you don't like it don't use them. You're the only one I've called out on this thread for it so whatevs.
I didn't claim victory but admitted that I couldn't prove what I was arguing and now you are crying because I said you couldn't prove what you are arguing. Most people don't use fallacious reasoning to try to win arguments but here we are. shrug
Re: Some Retail Nintendo Switch Games Will Require You To Own A MicroSD Card
@MsgBoardGamer
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance
Your argument is argument from ignorance. Pretty appropriate name for your debate skills eh?
Background you can't prove something. So you set the premise to be that so and so must prove something and when they can't, the conclusion is you are right. The premise is false because you can't prove what you are arguing. The conclusion is false because my ability to prove or inability to prove anything does nothing to validate your argument in any way. Just an FYI.
Those are interesting opinions that you list that I've countered above but I'll give you a couple more thoughts on them before seeing if you have any facts. NBA 2K18 is pretty equal to the hd twins. Sure slightly lower framerate, but all modes, all versions, all DLC, max resolution on Switch. Pretty big risk for TT. We know Switch demand is more than supply right now but we don't really know how high it is. But if you know if it's going to sell 100 million already that'd be interesting to know. Almost all games "require" (using that term loosely because they'll auto download patches if you're connected to the internet) storage usage. Zelda uses about 500 MB for the physical cart which while not a huge amount is still about 2% of the available space. Your argument also ignores digital downloads of which Zelda has been a big seller and will use over 50% of your available space or the DLC for Zelda which if you were highly satisfied with Zelda (as most were) you probably got the DLC.
Re: Some Retail Nintendo Switch Games Will Require You To Own A MicroSD Card
@MsgBoardGamer
You and I both know that neither of us can obtain exact usage of extra memory for the Switch, Wii U, 3DS or any system. Your whole argument is a fallacy. If you argue that you can prove the data then prove me wrong. Otherwise stop wasting precious space on this message board. The digital trees are crying here.
Re: Some Retail Nintendo Switch Games Will Require You To Own A MicroSD Card
@MsgBoardGamer
Then prove it. Shouldn't be that hard since I'm wrong. Try to it in a non-condescending manner. Saying demand does or does not exist isn't proof.
Re: Some Retail Nintendo Switch Games Will Require You To Own A MicroSD Card
@MsgBoardGamer
I argued there are scenarios it's beneficial. That's an opinion which isn't proovable because the market data I'm able to get is more representational than definitive. This is a website where opinions are welcome so I shouldn't have to deal with your hostility on those points.
You're argument is that I'm wrong. That is a fact. That's different than disagreeing with an interpretation of non-definitive facts. If you are going to make up facts you can't back up then maybe you shouldn't use the internet.
Also don't cuss. This is a family site. I look forward to your proof that there is 100% no scenario that makes sense for Nintendo to package an sd card with the Switch to back your stated fact.
Re: Some Retail Nintendo Switch Games Will Require You To Own A MicroSD Card
@MsgBoardGamer
Businesses assumptions aren't always correct so they don't always work in their best interest. The Wii U is a perfect example. Nintendo's models showed it would sell and be a profit machine. It didn't.
You have no proof I'm on the wrong side of the argument. You have no proof that including an sdcard would not be beneficial for them. I made a rational argument so quit your silly send your argument to Nintendo waste of space. Your argument is sdcard usage is niche. My argument was it's not and even if it was the math can still make sense. If you disagree thats fine, if you still don't understand I don't care.
I am curious how you'd explain the case of the Wii U though. To your point Nintendo consumers don't download stuff. Yet they overwhelmingly picked up the 32 GB version (essentially a free flash upgrade since Nintendoland was the $50 difference) to the point that the 8 GB version was immediately discountinued and clearenced by retailers for well below msrp prices. It seems your argument would be A. Nintendo was irrational for making a bundle with higher memory and B. Consumers are irrational for overwhelmingly going for the bundle. Of which even if we assume consumers irrationally want more memory than they need it still makes sense to cater to those consumers since they are spending $ on our product.
Re: Some Retail Nintendo Switch Games Will Require You To Own A MicroSD Card
@MsgBoardGamer
You repeatedly calling me dumb and this topic blowing up means people don't give a crap about sd cards? Okay, whatever. Reality is though it can be niche and make a profit. They probably only need 20% of the people to download one game to make it worth giving every one a sdcard. 20% too high? What about 5% downloading 4 games each? Or 1 out of 70 people deciding to go all digital and downloading 10 games. The math can work to profit Nintendo even if it's niche.
Re: Some Retail Nintendo Switch Games Will Require You To Own A MicroSD Card
@JaxonH
There is a right answer, but you're right neither of us can determine which best that is. I have a hard time with you calling it loss leader because in fact they are not losing money on the switch either way. At some point they reviewed all their options to maximize profit which included adding more value to the package or raising/lowering price and I bet considering adding an SD card was one of those things they considered. Are they right not to? Who knows, but it seemed like you were replying it was irrational to even consider it.
Re: Some Retail Nintendo Switch Games Will Require You To Own A MicroSD Card
@MsgBoardGamer
I think you meant "aren't". Here I may be in the minority buying a game at launch. Either way it's not related to the topic.
Re: Some Retail Nintendo Switch Games Will Require You To Own A MicroSD Card
@MsgBoardGamer
"misplace it entirely."
I understood you correctly. Can't misplace something you didn't touch. And my argument was replace the expensive flash memory for a 128 GB sd card. That would have been cheaper for them and supposedly they wouldn't have shortages now because Apple wouldn't be snapping up all those 32 GB flash modules.
Re: Some Retail Nintendo Switch Games Will Require You To Own A MicroSD Card
@JaxonH
Companies don't always make a profit. Nintendo lost money for 4 straight years because they couldn't sell the Wii U at a profit. The goal is maximum profit which involves a variety of things such as how many you can sell at a given price point. Nintendo thought the Switch would maximize profit at $300. Where they right? They weren't on the Wii U. Given the shortages they probably wish they started at $350.
So is it worth it to throw in a $3 sd card for the given price? Maybe. You can't discuss maximum profit without looking at consumer preference. Including more storage helps move consumer demand towards downloadable content. Downloadable content is more profitable by a wide margin. You could certainly come to the conclusion that throwing in a $3 sdcard could add more profit to the transaction. I preordered NBA 2K18 for the Switch for $38 from Bestbuy. Did they sell it to me at a loss? In your words, inconceivable. Thus the retailer is taking a huge cut. It's in Nintendo's best interest to limit that cut. Nintendo could incentivize people to move towards download better than they are for sure. Either way Nintendo is making a nice profit on the Switch with or without a sdcard.
Re: Some Retail Nintendo Switch Games Will Require You To Own A MicroSD Card
@MsgBoardGamer
Okay Mr. Economics. At least you dropped your dumb people will lose an sdcard they will never touch argument. Now you want to add something to this board or just continue personal attacks because you didn't like me not agreeing with you.
Re: Some Retail Nintendo Switch Games Will Require You To Own A MicroSD Card
@JaxonH
But it's alot cheaper for Nintendo to buy SD cards than a consumer. It's also not entirely true that the cost of the item leads to the price. Price is more nuanced with supply/demand. When the Switch launched the Japanese price converted to US $ was $260. What did we get for that $40 extra? Not a dang thing. And it's selling so Nintendo is cool with that.
Re: Some Retail Nintendo Switch Games Will Require You To Own A MicroSD Card
@MsgBoardGamer
If NBA 2K18 moves 1 million on the Switch, that would be about 15% of Switch owners and would be alot of people needing microsd cards. Certainly not as niche as you make it seen. And you know it's only the first game to announce this there will be others and AAA will sell on the Switch even if it's not as much as the HD twins. If any consumer intends to go download only they'll need a microsd. 10 years ago that was niche, today it's not so much.
What's your thoughts on a future microsd bundle? Certainly if that happens it's an admission that 32 GB isn't enough for the average consumer by Nintendo. They know who is using microsd and who isn't.
Re: Some Retail Nintendo Switch Games Will Require You To Own A MicroSD Card
@MsgBoardGamer
NBA 2k17 sold 8.5 million last year. It's a very popular game and a portable version of it will likely be popular and it will likely lead NPD in September. I don't think you're right on me being the minority. The Switch is about expanding to more than just the 13 million Wii U owners. It's about expanding to the average consumer. The average consumer wants these types of games as noted by it being the highest selling game of the month. And I just disagree about the difficulty of putting a microsd card in a slot. If you've ever used a computer you can do it. The average consumer does it all the time. I think it's very likely that the Switch gets bundled with a microsd in the future and I'd be curious in say 2020 the number of Switch consoles that people are frequently using that don't have one in it.
Re: Some Retail Nintendo Switch Games Will Require You To Own A MicroSD Card
@MsgBoardGamer
Well you've not done a convincing job convincing me that 32 GB is enough so I guess we are even. Seriously though NBA 2k18 is just the first. If you want third party AAA games you will need one. This is proof. That's just to play 1 game on a system.
Ironically though the 3DS XL came with 4 GB of memory. The resolution of the Switch is 10.8 times that of the 3DS. So a comparable number would be 43.8 GB storage. Compensate for the much larger OS and you are at 50 GB. But even then you are just matching the memory of a handheld released 6 years ago when home consoles typically have larger games. Breath of Wild is a perfect example. There is no game on the 3DS close to the scope of that.
Re: Some Retail Nintendo Switch Games Will Require You To Own A MicroSD Card
@MasterWario
To me it's silly to spend $60 on a download of NBA 2k18 versus $38 for the physical where I can pre-order that at Best Buy right now. It also helps on the microsd side assuming it's a 10 GB download versus a 25 GB download as mentioned above. I bought a 128 GB card so I'm hoping that lasts me this generation and eating up 1/5th of the card on 1 game doesn't show promise.
Re: Some Retail Nintendo Switch Games Will Require You To Own A MicroSD Card
@MsgBoardGamer
Lol, I am a gamer and I'm in business which is why I can see that we as consumers are getting the short end of the stick. My original argument was the Switch could have came with one like the 3DS. The 3DS had the microsd card in it and it required some skill to remove the back panel to upgrade it. This could have been the same way.
You still can't seem to grasp that Switch needing a microsd card is a thing now. So by not including it, it just became more complicated for the consumer because many will have to do it which is what you think Nintendo is protecting them from. And as discussed above the attach ratio suggests it's highly likely if you own a Switch you own MK8 and Zelda. If you own those two games digitally your internal storage is done and requires you to get a microsd card to download more games. This is way different than the 500 gb solution for PS4, Xbone. It is possible that there is someone who could get 10 games on those systems and not actually need another hard drive. Sure I got another one right away as I am a gamer and knew it would be insufficient, but this is worse than the 500 GB limit because almost everybody is going to buy more than 2 games for a system. So it affects a great deal more people than just us gamers and it drops to 1 game for a system if you want NBA 2k18 and it won't be the only game that does this.
Re: Some Retail Nintendo Switch Games Will Require You To Own A MicroSD Card
@MegaTen
If the choice was pay $10 more per game or pay $20 one time for additional microsd storage that can service multiple games, I'm picking the microsd everytime.
Re: Some Retail Nintendo Switch Games Will Require You To Own A MicroSD Card
@MsgBoardGamer
Flash drives are not even remotely similar to a microsd on a handheld. You stick it in it and never think of it again vs a computer where you only use it to move data between computers. If I lose my microsd it's because I've lost my switch.
Microsd is essential if you want to play some switch games just like joycons are required for some switch games. I bought a microsd and stuck it in my switch and never had to look for it. I've not lost a joycon yet, but I've spent much time looking for it. Nintendo even updated their OS to help you find lost joycons. The lost argument is a lost cause for you my friend.
Re: Some Retail Nintendo Switch Games Will Require You To Own A MicroSD Card
@PorllM
Almost every gamer has mk8 and zelda. If you dl those and want to download arms you are out of luck. Storage that only allows 2 games is pretty worthless to me. Even 128 sd card would be a huge improvement.
Re: Some Retail Nintendo Switch Games Will Require You To Own A MicroSD Card
@MsgBoardGamer
Do you have a microsd card in your switch. Not easy at all to lose unless you are swapping them out constantly. Plus as games are requiring a microsd now it seems your comment about losing them is pretty invalid. I mean joycons are very easy to lose should nintendo have not included them?
Re: Some Retail Nintendo Switch Games Will Require You To Own A MicroSD Card
@PorllM
They could have dropped the flash since it wasn't enough to be usable and included a microsd card of 256 or 512. That should have been cost neutral for them by dropping the flash and they've used that strategy before on the 3ds so it's not unthinkable.
Re: Some Retail Nintendo Switch Games Will Require You To Own A MicroSD Card
@Wolfgabe
I think the warning is pretty hideous.
Re: Some Retail Nintendo Switch Games Will Require You To Own A MicroSD Card
@Smigit
Nba 2k17 pc is a 66 gb dl. Switch version is supposed to be on par with the other consoles.
Re: NBA 2K18 to Have All Modes and Support amiibo on Switch, But Won't Hit 60fps
I'll probably double dip. I'm getting the Switch version now and will get the steam version when it goes on a huge sale since that will be the best version and the switch has mobile.
The comments are funny to me though. If FPS and resolution are that important to y'all you shouldn't be getting console games, only pc games.
Re: Super Mario Kart on SNES Gets MSU1 Digital Audio Enhancement
I'm surprised the negativity surrounding this. I always thought this was something to mess around with, not to replace the original game. There will always be something about original music, but sometimes new ways to look at old games can be good too.
Re: Mario + Rabbids Kingdom Battle Is Getting a Season Pass
@TheMisterManGuy
Pre-alpha and post alpha by definition are more about how the developer defines it. Arms version 2.0 is live now. Nintendo very well could have called that alpha version 1.0 but they didn't. The last game I bought early access was Dirt Rally. I bought it a couple months before it went gold. I could make a solid argument that it was more complete than splatoon 1 when it was released but if you only seem to be focused on if a game calls itself early access or not.
Re: Mario + Rabbids Kingdom Battle Is Getting a Season Pass
@TheMisterManGuy
Most early access games play well and more about producing additional content rather than changing physics. Sure the physics can be tweaked but arms physics has already been tweaked as well. To me with splatoon and arms had enough content released after launch to indicate that they weren't finished. If you want to argue not finished is different than early access that's fine, but I'd rather have as finished a game as possible at launch.
Re: Mario + Rabbids Kingdom Battle Is Getting a Season Pass
@MegaVel91
"Pointing fingers to past practices only substantiates that something has happened before, not that something is currently true. Without substantial evidence that the Day One DLC is content cut from the game, any such claims are bogus and nothing but conjecture."
What you are asking for is something that only a few people in Ubisoft would know for sure. The asking for "proof" to back up ones opinion thing is overdone and a poor argument. I mean do you have proof that Ubisoft absolutely crammed everything into a $60 game they could? And they are cramming everything they can into the $20 DLC? Oh, you're just mad because Yorumi never claimed to have proof that you are demanding except past history which you claim is invalid here? I mean I wish we could all be naively optimistic over all things Switch but making yourself judge of opinions is probably not going to endear you to many here.
Perception matters and anytime a company announced DLC on a new IP before seeing if that new IP is actually successful is going to be a bad look. You shouldn't be upset at someone's opinion so much. This is a forum to discuss opinions. Maybe the game will prove to be well worth $60 and the DLC well worth $20 and this whole discussion dissapears much like the Zelda DLC. But until that time there's nothing wrong with being skeptical of the approach.
Re: Mario + Rabbids Kingdom Battle Is Getting a Season Pass
@TheMisterManGuy
Except in the case where Nintendo is going. There two biggest new release games (Splatoon, Arms) are being released in parts with significant parts being released well past actual release. It's like early access beta on Steam.
Re: Mario + Rabbids Kingdom Battle Is Getting a Season Pass
@MasterWario
Inflation is just 1 compoment. The large increase in the market well offsets any inflationary increases since a game is largely fixed cost and cost/game takes into account the sales the game makes. Also as the move into digital distribution has occured the middle man is more often getting squeezed out as well as lower distribution/boxing costs. Also as mentioned above tech has allowed companies to reduce manhours on certain components of development and the high amount of competition at this point means that margins will naturally decrease.
Re: Soapbox: The SNES Classic Edition Pre-Order Farce Proves Nintendo Hasn't Learned A Thing
Don't worry all. The Walmart employee I asked about in-store preorders said that Nintendo is doing this right and the product won't be limited. 100% confirmed that anybody who wants one on day one will be able to get one.
Re: Nintendo Switch and Splatoon 2 Led US Retail Sales in July
@bimmy-lee
Use istocknow. I live in a mid sized city and Walmart/Target have been very consistent getting stock of the Switch. I was able to use istocknow to grab a Switch in April when the shortages were stronger.
Re: GameStop Gets Major Nintendo Switch Restock in the US, But Only In Stores
I think the stock is pretty close to be met in the US. I'm sure there are some parts that are out of stock. But we've had stock in my city the last three weeks. Until then all stock sold within a day or 2.
Re: The OJO Aims To Be The First Dedicated Nintendo Switch Projector
@bluesdance
200 lumens is like a $2 single led flashlight though. Really only playable in the darkest conditions. In 99% of situations you'd be better off with 2 people looking at the handheld screen.
Re: Nintendo Download: 10th August (North America)
@electrolite77
It's the switch 2 I'm worried about. Switch 2 likely won't be viewed as innovation and even less 3rd party support is likely.