Not so long ago, the bombshell was dropped that certain Switch games will require you to have a microSD card inserted in order to gain access to all features, with NBA 2K18 being the first title to make this stipulation.
The game is now out, and we've got a better idea of exactly why the additional space is required. The following info comes from Nintendo of America's official support site:
A microSD card (sold separately) is required to download NBA 2K18 for Nintendo Switch, in addition to 5GB per save file on the system memory. Please have the microSD card inserted before beginning the game download and ensure that you have a least 5GB of system memory (not on a microSD card) available.
Below are the storage space requirements:
Initial software download after purchase – 6.8 GB
Additional software update – 16.1 GB
Save file – 5 GB system memory per save file
Please note that a microSD card is required for both the digital and physical versions of the game. Additional information about this requirement is located on the game packaging and in the Nintendo eShop / Game Store.
Games like DOOM and Wolfenstein II are likely to employ similar mechanics to ensure that players get the full experience - we already know that DOOM's online portion has to be download separately and will not be included on the card, no doubt due to the costs involved in shipping games on high capacity Switch game cards.
[source neogaf.com]
Comments 415
I'm downloading it now. It currently says 1% and 6 hours 12 minutes remaining. This will take awhile but I'm just happy to get full, AAA sports games on my Switch. I look forward to FIFA in a couple weeks and now all I need is for E.A. to GIVE ME MADDEN! After that my sports gaming life will be complete.
UPDATE: It was much shorter than a 6 hour DL. I got home and saw it was finished. So that means it took less than 4 hours.
My poor SD card is taking a beating. Of the 128 gigs I started with on March 3rd, I will only have 52.4 remaining after this download.
Waste of money.
Waste of memory.
...5 GB per save!? head explodes
If only Switch didn't ship with 32 GB of memory...
Won't be buying any games retail that require this at this time. Too many other games deserve my attention that fit on the cartridge. Doom is the only exception since I don't need multiplayer anyways.
5 GB for a save file???? Wow
This is why the Switch's 32 GB limit is ridiculous!
@BlueOcean Don't you know, you're not allowed make common sense?
That is quite ridiculous for just a save. I have less then 12gigs left on my memory. This game can wait for the bargain bin.
The only positive side of this I can think of has to be how hard it's gonna be for pirates to work around this. At least I think it will...
5 GB each Save Data ?!
Game looks so dope!!
@Yorumi C'mon now, I get what you're saying but that's an exaggeration. Smash Bros. Wii U is nearly 16GB's in size, nevermind all the DLC on top of that.
People, people! Don't you realise it needs that 5GB's to keep track of your 450,000 Virtual Currency for €99.99/£79.99?
Does this mean that even people who buy the physical version will need to download the 16.1GB additional file, that the card only has the base 6.8GB game on it?
@justin233 Your opinion. I downloaded it overnight last night and am enjoying it.
@SLIGEACH_EIRE Yeah, I mean, for that price in 2017 you would expect more. All 3DS/2DS systems come with SD cards that are relatively big for the size of 3DS games. Some developers said that the Switch prototype came with 64 GB which is not a lot for the price of the hardware and still they cut it in half.
I'll get this when the physical version arrives.
@flapjack-ashley Ok? I'm entitled to my opinion that the game is a waste of money and space. Did you get the extra special $150 version?
@BlueOcean then it would cost even more and be an impossible investment for some people, including me
@Yorumi I think you're thinking of SM3DW. I think that game's under 3GB's.
Edit: Nope, it's much smaller. It's nearly 1.7GB's, though strangely the Japanese version is 2.4GB's.
I have the physical edition preordered so that 16gb will be on the cart.
Just have a 6gb patch to download and the save file on internal memory, obviously. But I bought a 400gb microSD for all my games and left the internal memory free and clear for stuff like this- updates and save files.
@flapjack-ashley @JHDK Last night I hit download at 10pm right when it became available. When I went to bed (midnight) it was at 71% downloaded. When i woke up this morning it was done. However, if that was only the 6.8GB then I regret not taking some time with it this morning to get the 16GB download initialted.
I'm very excited for this game!!!
So, anybody remember all the people saying Switch was better than PS4 and Xbox One b/c those other consoles required you to install the game on the HDD but Switch games came on carts that didn't need to be installed, they just came and ran on the cart itself?
Anybody?
Anyway, when I first started reading I thought 5GB was the install, which really isn't that bad these days, even by Wii U standards. But yeah, it kind of gets out of control after that.
And for those of you who still don't get it - if you share your Switch with a family, it says 5GB per save. So a parent and 2 kids, that's 15GB of the 32GB internal memory. Just for saves. Just for 1 game.
Ludicrous may be a bit harsh, but it's something. Something that aint' good.
All the Switch is better than PS4 and X1 stuff b/c cart is better than discs installed on HDD just makes matters worse. No 1 game takes up half of those 500GB HDD with 3 save files. No 1 game requires you to buy an external HDD to install it on.
i know this is only 1 game, but I'm not optimistic about it being the only one. So much for carts are better because...
@justin233 not to many of us. I will enjoy this game just as much as Splatoon 2!
@justin233 You cared enough to share your opinion.
@SLIGEACH_EIRE It's actually pretty crazy to think that the entire game of SM3DW is less than what is needed for a save file for this game.
@BlueOcean And the retail price of the Switch would have been more and then people would moan about that (oops already do) and the storage still wouldn't be enough. And less sales due to price increase = less support
5GB save file for a 26GB game? Something is extremely off about this.
The save data for The Sims 2 on PC + all 17 or so expansions installed (mind you, this is a game where you customise almost every facet of the experience) was under 1GB from memory (that's covering various neighbourhoods with hundreds of buildings and characters). I can't even begin to fathom how a few customised players/teams should warrant a such a gargantuan save file.
And remind me why the entirety of the game isn't on cartridge? The eShop indicates that it's around 24GB or so, so it should definitely fit on a 32GB card. It's not as if the retail version is cheap (and don't get me started on the microtransactions and obscenely priced collector's editions). This port just screams of poor/sloppy programming.
@Ballzilla Honestly, I don't think that Nintendo reduced the price of Switch when they decided to cut the internal memory in half, they just wanted to increase profits. This theory also explains why Switch accessories and SD-like cartridges are obviously overpriced.
@Fred13 I let mine download overnight and when I woke up, it was the entire game, not just the initial 6.8GB file. Hopefully yours is the same.
@Judgedean Same answer (comment above).
@JaxonH Guess I owe you an apology for calling you nuts getting that 400GB card.
Nintendo should have come with 64gb cards from start and make them cheaper for 3rd parties, selling stuff with a loss is nothing new, Sony did that for years with the PS3.
But this is ridiculus, Nintendo made mistake with 32gb max, 3ds has plenty enough from 4gb carts because even big titles like Pokémon are by far not that big.
Nintendo made the same mistake Sony made with the vita, vita cartridges are 4gb max and a lot of games dont fit on them lately and you have to download extra stuff like extra audio options or better soundfiles, or even better Bamco released a vita game on 2 cart because the game was above 6gb.
And do not forget, 32gb carts arent true 32gb, like with all digital media there is around 26gb space on the cart, on 16gb variant it would be even around 13gb, thats how it works with cartridges, hard drives, sd cards and so on.
@Fred13 Good for you?
@rjejr that 5GB save file must be doing more then just a save file.. it's a pretty ridiculous if not.
@JasonH You have a 400GB card?? Where did you get it?
@Yorumi I am also a professional computer programmer. 5GB for a sale file is either (a) a misprint or (b) the most rediculous thing I have ever seen in my life.
Getting a hefty sd card seems to be the understatement of the century.
@flapjack-ashley I'm glad to hear that. Thank-you!
@rjejr Right. The biggest Xbox One game is Halo 5 (around 100GB after all the updates) but the console comes with 500GB, 1TB or 2TB HDD, not to mention external storage is much much much cheaper than SD cards. The greatest thing about a handheld is that you can insert a cartridge and you are ready to go but on Switch this is not true. We are not talking about patches but more than half of the game is on the internet.
@Lumine ....until it's a game you want.
@BlueOcean If only 2K opted to use the 32GB cartridge.
I'm glad I bought a 200GB card with my Switch because at 5GB per save and 3 in my family likely wanting to play it adds up
@flapjack-ashley yes, it must be this. All the confusion about the physical version needing an sd card is due to (a) stupid save file size and (b) most of the game not being on the cartridge.
Will wait for a 1TB micro sd card.
@Fred13 I think all save data needs to save to the internal memory!
All good sports games are going to make you download a huge file before playing. I believe they do this to insure that the most recent team roster and player information is correct and up to date. Maybe I'm wrong though.
Those numbers still seem huge though. Splatoon 2 is less than 6gb I think. Mario Kart 8 Deluxe is around 8gb.
@rjejr I still maintain this to be true.
The 5GB save file makes this game (in my opinion) broken. I was very temped but this is too much.
Checking my data management, this is what NBA 2K18 lists.
3.0GB on internal memory
22.9GB on SD card.
Total Size: 26GB
The 3GB must be the save data. I haven't played all but one trial quick play game - no season or roster stuff - so I bet it grows to 5GB as the description says. 3GB just for options seems like an awful lot.
@flapjack-ashley was it any good?
@flapjack-ashley something is seriously wrong with 3GB of save data (left alone 5GB).
Yeah, I'm gonna wait for the physical release.
@SLIGEACH_EIRE it ain't about common sense. The problem ppl here has is that u talk like we should all care about the stuff that bothers u. Why?! I don't care about all this data storage "problems". I have learn to deal with that on PS4 and with my 16GB phone.
@Curlynob Yes, it plays really well, actually. Awesome presentation.
I wonder what size card this will come on, though. The game download is split between a base download and an additional file download. Does that mean the game on the card is only the 6.8GB base game and you'd still need to download the 16.1GB file?
@JaxonH I think it says that the 16GB is the download. The 6GB is what will be on the cart.
@Yorumi 1000 pages of text will be approx 4 MB without any compression.
@BlueOcean Sorry, i don't know how to reply, I'm so used to fighting with people on here i forgot how to react when someone agrees with me.
@Yorumi "Also again I'm a programmer, 5GB save file is BS"
That made my day.
"should be"
But it isn't. A lot of things should be, but they aren't. Switch carts are theoretically better than discs and installs, I know that, but now we're into reality. And reality is BS, to borrow your French.
Funny thing about the 5GB save file size is it reminds me of the save file issues for Skyrim on PS3. People were complaining b/c some of their file sizes were going up to 20MB. That's mega, w/ a M. Though of course the real problem was the game ran like dreck, more like crawled, when it did. Hopefully that wont' be a problem on Switch when those 5GB actually get filled up with something.
Look, Wii U had 32GB's of internal memory back in 2012, though in reality it was about 27GB's after the OS update. Wii U used optical discs which were 25GB's in size. Nothing came close to filling them until XCX and then later again, BOTW. So a game could in theory could fit on the internal memory.
Fast forward 4 and a half years and Nintendo somehow thinks 32GB's is enough again. Again the OS eats up another 5 or so GB's of data. So what's the limit of the Switch cartridges? 32GB's(though that can increase but cartridges are already expensive at the lower limit so it could be quiet some time before we see a 64GB cartridge). Straight away we had a square peg in a round hole. And in Japan that square peg was already in existence with Dragon Quest Heroes 1&2. That game ate up the full 32GB cartridge. Nintendo knew this would be a problem but they still stuck with 32GB's, both for the internal memory and the upper limit of their cartridge size.
Nintendo don't care about the customer, I think they see that internal memory as being for themselves, for future apps and OS updates. Sod the consumer, they can pay for micro SD cards if and when need be. They're paying for everything else. Nintendo are worried about piracy above all else and will take the disadvantages of cartridge size and expense as long as it prevents piracy. It's partially why I believe we don't have a browser and a lot of other things yet. They don't want to give would be hackers the means to hijack the system before they can figure out everything themselves and put in safeguards. There was already an early exploit in the Switch that Nintendo removed with firmware update 2.1.0.
@Yorumi What about stats, and player specific data. Every single player has a model and different stats. That seems like a lot of programming. I really have no clue though, just a guess.
@Fred13 the 5GB per user goes on the internal memory only. Save games go there. The sd card will hold the 22 GB game, or 16GB update if you have the cartridge version.
@rjejr my ps4 only has enough space for 5 of my games to be on it at once..it's still a disappointment to me and I am not gonna buy a bigger hdd. So to me the switch is still better, I already downloaded 8 games on it and still have alot left.
@Lumine agreed. I'm digital only but find this very off-putting.
@justin233
Your forgot one!
@The-Chosen-one Really clever. Oh, you got me! I'm entitled to my opinion of this game.
@memoryman3 Right. I said that very thing on the other article, but 32 GB Switch cartridges are so overpriced -they have a flash memory inside which is similar to slow SD cards- that developers can't choose them and if the do it costs them around 20 euros or dollars more compared to a BD. Only 4 GB cartridges are cheaper than what they have to pay for that 50 GB BD (including publisher fees and everything) for Xbox/PS.
You can blame the publisher if you want but they are assuming the extra costs that Nintendo doesn't want to assume, at least in Australia where the Switch version is cheaper than the others.
yeah, i'll wait until ii can get a bigger sd card.
@Fred13 wont solve the problem, switch saves are always saved on switch itself.
Which if more games get this big save files becomes a huge problem because nobody can back it up.
Thx Nintendo (not)
I dunno why people are having such a fit over this. I'm just happy it's not a 50-100GB install like Xbox/PS. The 5GB Save file is probably because of something like the Game builds Custom Custscenes using your Avatar and its faster to save them in solid state than it is to render them in real time. Also possible, any customizable texture would need to be saved in 1080+ to pull off those graphics.
All fine by me and it looks amazing. I'm guessing it was THIS that lead to the stripped down FIFA, because this soils all over FIFA visually, but memory space is needed
@SLIGEACH_EIRE I think the reality of the Switch is: if you want to download games you need as SD card. If you are buying physical media, then internal memory is enough for you.
I don't think anyone was ever under any illusion that the internal memory was ever there for downloading games.
But the alternatives aren't that great. If the Switch had 64GB of internal memory any serious downloader would still need an SD card. Probably the same for 128GB. And 128GB would have added at least $100 onto the price.
But I do think things get silly when publishers aren't putting the whole game on the cartridge or developers require 5GB of save data! Personally, I would target this behaviour rather than the lack of internal storage.
@MsgBoardGamer
"Most gamers don't buy a gazillion games for their consoles.
Most gamers buy physical retail games for consoles.
Most Switch gamers don't primarily play AAA video games that are a gazillion bytes."
Really? You do realize that more and more games are being released digital-only, right? Well over half of the games on the eShop are digital only. Nintendo pushes digital sales on their own games. With the Switch being a portable unit, many people are deciding to go digital only so not to cart around a bunch of game cards.
32GB internal is not enough. It wasn't even really enough in 2012, either.
@SLIGEACH_EIRE
@justin233 How is the game waste of money if the game is good? Sure, those Legend editions are really expensive, but the normal version has a standard price of 59,99€ (in Europe, of course).
If you don't like the game, that doesn't mean that the game is waste of money for those that like this sort of games.
@flapjack-ashley does anyone have figures for download vs retail. I was full digital on Wii U and 3DS but kept getting told I was unusual.
I suspect Nintendo must know... I would be very interested in these numbers.
The Switch really should have had more than 32 GB packed in it.
@KoopaTheGamer Hey, you are entitled to your opinion. I am too.
I have an idea. Release a Switch Pro with an M.2 connector for easy upgradable memory.
@JamesR I think the problem many people have is not that having to have additional storage is a reality, but its one that Nintendo ignored in only putting 32GB in their consoles. They are pushing digital sales, more than half of the games on the eShop are digital only, Resident Evil Revelations 2 (at 26GB) is digital only even when buying the physical collection that's coming out. Nintendo had to have known digital sales are a big thing. They basically pushed additional cost for many people onto the customer by forcing us to buy SD cards with it paltry 32GB internal.
@JamesR @derrin @Rayquaza2510 Wow, that stinks. Thanks for the info though. Good thing all my games are on the SD card and the internal only has saves because this game alone will either take up 15 or 20 GB (I'm not yet sure if my 7 year old daughter will want her own save file but my wife and son and I will for sure) I might have to buy my wife her own copy of the game (for her own switch) where we were previously going to share this one copy. That way it'll be 10GB on each internal instead of 20GB on my internal. Man I feel bad for families that buy this game and only have 1 Switch for the whole family. We were going to do that, but my wife and I have way too much fun playing Splatoon online together so we bought a second one.
@rjejr Whining aside, I know larger cards = higher cost, but aside from that, cards were the logical choice for Switch. I look forward to card costs coming down.
>5GB save file
@MsgBoardGamer I think you are really underestimating the "typical" user these days. Nintendo promotes the eShop heavily - on their website and on the Switch itself with the news updates and advertising. Even the most basic of gamer will be aware of downloading games. And now, those gamers who do buy game cards only will be aware of the storage limitations when they are forced to download additional data for games like NBA 2K18 or DOOM (for online multiplayer). Someone buying Resident Evil Revelations in physical form will be directed to download the sequel digitally, and that's a 26GB game file.
It's getting to the point that digital downloads are a major thing in the industry and everyone is getting to become aware of it.
This kind of thing is commonplace on other systems. Get with the times people.
Why are Nintendo getting the blame for a third party development problem. Yes the switch should have launched with 64GB internal storage but it's not there fault for bad programming.
Now what Nintendo should do is allow saves to be stored on memory cards and introduce cloud storage
@flapjack-ashley I guess I'm part of the "minority" too. I prefer to download all of my games and I typically do. On the Wii U I downloaded most of my games. The same is true about my 3DS. I'm not a collector and I don't trade in games anymore; and more importantly for me these days is the fact that I don't want a billion game boxes sitting around my house.
I thought the measly 32GB was a huge thing until I recently looked at the cost of SD cards. You can buy a 64GB for less than $10 on Amazon. I know longer think this is a problem.
5GB per save file, holy salt!
No wonder why Nintendo was emphasizing that you can utilize 256GB Micro SD cards from the jump (Guess that's why the SD card is also so easy to get to on the Switch...). I'm kinda gonna turn this disgrunt around though and look at this another way-- Is this mayhap a dev's inability to be more efficient with storage, rather than Nintendo just not blessing the Switch with vaster internal storage for the Switch? Taking a step back for a sec, I think there's enough blame to go around on each side. Nintendo has almost always been good about their games' storage space, but I know that's also because they know the ins and outs of their hardware. I dunno... I'm more or less just interjecting another train of thought into this conversation. What do you guys think?
@dkxcalibur it will be a problem if we see more giant save files which can only be installed on internal memory
5 Gb per save file? Wow. First time I hear of such a thing. What is in there, entire anatomy character editor? Space reserved for saved replays in advance? I don't think even PS4 games normally require that much. XD
@MsgBoardGamer Typical members to this site won't take advantage of eshop sales and download games? I know the eshop on the Switch hasn't done many of these so far, but Nintendo does a lot of sales on the 3DS and Wii U shops.
What about the Humble bundle that's been happening for the last 2 years that many of the members on here took part in?
@flapjack-ashley @Rayquaza2510 Right, people saying buy the physical version are forgetting these digital-only games like Revelations 2 and save data which is stored in the internal memory, not to mention semi-physical games like this.
@Damo Nice image 😀
5GB for a save file? That's gigaBYTES?!? What are we saving, the players' iCloud accounts?
Just thinking aloud here. This 5GB save data file cannot just be save data. I was wondering whether this is just an "install" by any other name. The game software on the Switch may not have permission to execute an initialisation process and save to the SD card. 2K may simply be using the save file as a way of installing the game and it can't write anywhere else. Now why they would chose to require an install, I don't know. Maybe for faster access... maybe part of anti-piracy... maybe this is how they are used to delivering their games elsewhere...
Something is certainly odd here
@SLIGEACH_EIRE Wii U did have at least 1 game that couldn't fit on the Internal storage. I remember buying NBA 2K13 and it wouldn’t fit, I popped in a USB flash drive and pushed ALL my data including save files to the USB flash drive and I still didn’t have enough room for NBA 2K13.
That game is why I bought a 2TB external hard drive for my Wii U.
@kobashi100 I didn't know that was a possibility. If there are games that can only be installed on internal memory, than that could become a problem.
You could also delete games that you don't play anymore and re-download them again. I know that get's annoying though. I've personally never gone back and re-downloaded a game after I deleted it.
Let's all take a moment and appreciate Nintendo's ability to deliver great games without eating all our storage: Splatoon 2, ARMS, Mario Kart 8... we love you all!
@EVIL-C Carts were their only choice, PSP proved that. But carts aren't all - Hurrah, now we dont' have to install discs and upgrade our HDD b/c carts are better and PS4 and X1 are bad, boo." There are trade-offs. Always trade-offs.
This a problem though b/c - they should ave explained why we need 5GB save files - I'm guessing replay vids - and Nintneod's choice on 32GB storage. Wii U was 8 and 32, 64 is natural linear progression. Sure cards are cheap, but it HAS to be cheaper for Ntinedo to get an extra 32GB on board than us to buy a card. If not, let Ntinedo stick a SD card in the box. Or make these guys put an SD card in the game box. It's just a lot to take in all at once. And then isn't like - oh, Switch has been out for 4 years, tech moves on, games get bigger - this is 6 moths after launch. Games aren't getting any smaller. Maybe nobody is dumb enough to have 5GB save files, but plenty of downloadable GB ahead. I'm just mad the $90 dock doesn't have an Ethernet port to download all of those GB.
@JamesR "The 5GB save file makes this game broken"
It certainly seems broken, or a misprint, or a typo, but i think it's coded that way from the X1 and PS4 versions - game makes a 5GB save file for whatever reason, nice round odd number - and nobody stopped to think maybe Switch's 32GB internal storage required something a little smaller. Like a 20MB internal storage SAVE file and a 5GB - WHATEVER - file on the SD card. I really doubt it's a save file. We all know it isn't saved date, more like HDD RAM space, probably for online. Or maybe replay data for the last 20 seconds to post a vid on Twitter. Yeah, I'm going with that one.
@Yorumi Good for you. I try to fight the good fight, say I wont 'do things like buy physical games digitally, or pay the same price for digital as physical, b/c the companies aren't paying for the materials, but then Ntnedo bundles the Switch with a digital download Mario, so I'm like argh Win some, lose some.
@Alex0714 I'm going to guess those 8 Switch games aren't comparable to those 4 PS4 games. I own most of my PS4 games on disc, and deleting stuff a couple of times - mostly huge demos or PS+ is annoying - but I've never had a PS4 game tell me I needed to buy an external HDD before installing it. And no save file takes up 20% of my internal storage.
So it's a trade-off. And I'm fine with that. I'm mostly just bothered by people who bad mouth other systems without having all the facts. Or distort the facts to make their point, which they then confuse with fact.
@kobashi100 Hopefully at some point somebody with a PS4 or X1 will tell us the size of the save file on those. It's possible that's just the way they programmed it across the board and they never optimized it for the Switch. I've never actually looked at the size of the save files on my X1, I own about 5 games on a 1TB system so I haven't had to care, but some of my PS4 save files are way too big. I read somewhere they are doing something with the OS. Or something. Netflix is like 4kb on my PS3 and 1GB on my PS4.
@kobashi100 personally I don't think 64GB would solve the issue. You would need at least 128GB. And then you are talking a pretty large cost increase.
Welcome to current gen gaming 2017
So has anybody at NL contacted them yet to ask WHY we need a 5GB save file?
My money is on "instant replay" or posting to social media, and that's what size PS4 and X1 have.
People always find something new to complain about. I'm just happy I'm finally getting 3rd party support on my nintendo console. This is a portable and sacrifices had to be made and this is a small one imo. Xbox and ps4 also need extra HD space because og installs. These sacrifices help the hardware to be reasonably priced. It's ok to be critical but this complainy kids ranting is getting old fast. The switch is here and it has 32gb of storage. Not much but it's not going to change anytime soon. Buy it or don't. Personally this doesn't bother me at all since i bought an sd card 2 months ago with 128 gb. Sure it's getting maxed out at some point, but I'll cross that bridge once I get there. Peace.
@rjejr a very good question. I'm thinking this must be a game install.
They couldn't even bone up for a 16gb cartridge?!
@rjejr I used to be that way too. The fact that the price to download is the same as the physical that cost money to produce and also ship always made me frustrated. However, there's something about having most of your games on the system is very convenient. I used to trade games in but I don't do that anymore and it gets to the point that you have too many cases sitting around the house!
@derrin
Idk, I talked to people who said it was a 6gb download if you buy the cart. We'll see
I know sports games have huge save files (because I assume you're tracking an entire league, at hundreds of players, but 5 GIGABYTES?)
And I though Pokemon was crazy for using 1 MB saves (as of gen 6). Which sounds, in theory, similar as far as data requirements.
Yes... I just compared NBA players to Pokemon.
Wow in the NES and SNES days, most lived with 8KB saves and the smallest saving Game Boy carts had 256 BYTES of saving.
What a difference we've come in 30 years.
@MeloMan @JamesR It's not as simple as Nintendo knows their own hardware but they reuse assets throughout the whole game and don't use voice acting. Even Breath of the Wild has only a few spoken dialogues. They also tend to use simple and repeated textures and sounds.
It doesn't mean that Nintendo are geniuses. Take for example, Yooka-Laylee. Its size is 5 GB on Xbox One and it looks pretty good, like Super Mario Odyssey. Your game is going to get big when you include voice, lots of high-quality sounds and lots of different and extremely detailed textures. I am thinking of Halo 5 and Uncharted 4. Of course, I can't find any explanation to the 5 GB save file in this game which is bigger than anything that The Sims or Minecraft ever had. Could that be what is called "Reserved space" on Xbox One games?
For those of us who can do math... this is NOT an ok solution.
Nintendo sell people a "$300" system.... that needs a $100 controller, a $200 memory card, and that's just to fit games from the first year. Never mind if the thing lasts a decade.
i guess xbox got everyone used to it back when they sold you the system and THEN told you to go buy an HDD for your games.
@KingMike
I don't understand 5gb at all. Tracking a whole league and all the stats, season, trades, etc is still small data. just numbers really. video and pictures are what take up space but all the assets should be in the base game already with the save file just telling the game where to look for certain pieces of info or what fields to populate with #'s like shooting percentage.
FWIW 2k14 was a 50gb download on xbox for anyone going digital. people complained about that too. so not entirely a nintendo problem. the problem of course is buying extra memory where others have it packed in (and a higher price)
@kobashi100
It really does look pretty awesome.
@Geeks4Life
I mean, I agree the Switch 32gb is fine because of SD and higher cost of flash memory, but I still think it's bogus for TakeTwo to not shell out for the full game on the cart. Especially if it ends up on an 8gb cart with a 16gb download and 5gb save reservation. Even a 16gb cart with 6gb download sucks.
I'd rather pay $10 extra and get the full game. A 32gb cart could have held everything like DQ Heroes 1/2
@flapjack-ashley
Amazon.
https://www.amazon.com/SanDisk-Ultra-microSDXC-Adapter-SDSQUAR-400G-GN6MA/dp/B074RNRM2B/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1505493617&sr=8-1&keywords=400gb+micro+sd+card
@SLIGEACH_EIRE
Nintendo also DON'T CARE with your STUPID Wishes !!
You keep glorify your Dead Wii U machine as the Best of All.
Wake Up !!
The more you complain, the more disappointment you get.
First, you keep crying for NO 3rd parties. Okay ! Nintendo Switch finally got some serious 3rd parties, but what your last reaction ? You COMPLAINED again because it was PORTS !! You expressed your dislikeness about PORTS !!
And you keep pesting for Fresh From Oven AAA 3rd party games that you NEVER mentioned what titles that are you looking for, until some users here wondering your complaints about 3rd party titles. Basically, You keep COMPLAINING for "No 3rd party" for Switch even there are some 3rd party games, you keep being Delusive, basically your AAA 3rd party that you looking for are NEVER EXIST !!
Second, You keep ACCUSING Switch is a Bad model of Nintendo machine. Even you said you have some interest with 1st party games, but your Main Complains are lack of 3rd party games. Some users suggested you better try other console for better experience of AAA 3rd party games, but you REFUSED !! You Keep insisting for AAA 3rd party games, NO PORTS, MUST be AAA on Everything, MUST be NEW, MUST be on NINTENDO machine, MUST be Super Cheap, MUST be HOOKED on TV, NO PORTABILITY, MUST be So Many Titles Every Month, Blah Blah Blah. Geez... you are so Greedy about those specs !!
Third, you were complaining for Micro SD cards. DUH !! Is it hard to buy that important tiny thing ?
Fourth, the way you keep Complaining about Switch + your plans to buy Switch someday were very Questionable. Are you gonna buy Switch just for HUMILIATE Nintendo Switch ?! Like you want to say " Looks ! I have bought Switch, I have bought this Stupid machine with 32 GB Internal Memory, "No" 3rd party games, "Handheld" & Blah Blah Blah compared with my Wii U ! "
Also, some users here are still waiting your answer. Reply them ! Show your manners ! Don't behave like you want to say any Negative comments as you like then wait for someone nagging at you and you feel "Delighted" to be scolded by someone.
Next time if I see you keep complaining about Nintendo Switch with very Ridiculous reasons, I will keep send you comments.
@flapjack-ashley it could mean that, but it doesn't have to. it's only releasing in a month so the patch might already be on there.
@LegendOfPokemon 32 GB internal is acceptable. what's not acceptable is a 5 GB save file.
@BlueOcean the biggest xbox one game i know is actually quantum break when you download all the tv episodes (120 GB)
Would people have preferred it if Nintendo didn't provide any usable internal storage on the Switch and solely relied on SD cards?
@JaxonH Thanks!
Why do you need 5gb for a save file? Ugh I wish devs would optimize their games better.
@JaxonH Yes. They probably did this so they could sell the game a little cheaper. It's ok that you would rather pay more and have more of the game on the cartridge but tbh. I think the majority of switch owners feel differently. I understand 2Ks decision but it's also very okay that you think it sucks. I just love that the game has been released for the switch.
@manu0 Hi Manu. I own that game and I had not realised.
@flapjack-ashley i think you're overestimating the typical user. the typical user only buys a couple of games for their console in its entire life time. console attach rates show that. of course you won't find these people here on gaming news sites. a friend of mine has had a ps4 for 3 years and only has 4 games.
@flapjack-ashley : Have you run through a game yet? I was wondering how well this will hold up on the Switch.
Otherwise, from what I've read about this game, it is absolutely huge. They've introduced My Neighborhood which is some sort of open world mycareer. And with the number of rosters, current and classic and all time, I can understand the size. I think a lot of folks posting negative thoughts about a save file need to actually go read about the game. They'll quickly learn this might be the most feature laden game ever made.
@BlueOcean that's probably because you looked at the install sizes when you sort by size. for some weird reason it doesn't count the installed add-on content towards that
@Cyberbotv2
I've heard great things on Reddit. People say it's a fantastic game on Switch, and it's just chock full to the hilt with content.
@Geeks4Life
I mean, I'm still buying it, and I too am glad it's released. A great addition to the library for sure! But I really wish they'd have fit it all on a 32gb cart. I don't mind the 5gb save file, that's fine. But ya. It is what it is.
Thankfully Nintendo's games are all small and on the cart, and even most 3rd party games. So a few exceptions won't kill me. But still, it sucks. I like the LA Noire approach. Give me the full game, I'll gladly tip that extra tenner. DOOM I completely understand because that game probably is already using a full 32gb cart. It's like 80gb on other platforms after DLC and patch.
@JamesR the only use I can think of is that the game needs some kind of cache/reserved space on the system memory for faster access than from SD.
@manu0
@JHDK I am right there with you. GIVE ME MADDEN!!! NFL on the go is a must.
@Cyberbotv2 Go on Youtube and check out RGT85 channel. He captured Switch gameplay, in docked mode and gave his impressions. He is thoroughly impressed. This game is a buy when the cart comes out for me. Cheers!!
@speedracer216 Pretty hard to do math when your figures are out of whack. You don't need a controller beyond the one (2 split) that comes with the system. Beyond that there are numerous options for a second controller, none of which are $100. And if you are spending $200 on an SD card you are getting ripped off. Pretty sure my 128gb card was like $35...
@rjejr LOL You can just say Right or smile. I am going to check the "Reserved space" on Xbox One (I don't have this particular game, though) in a while and let you know. I think that the 5 GB save file in this game could be some kind of reserved space.
@JaxonH : Nice. I was watching this game prior to purchasing a Switch. Take Two must very confident in the system considering WWE is coming next.
Doesn't this game launch on the 19th on all platforms? I just checked. How are people already playing? Naughty retailers or what?
I worry if this sells well it'll only embolden publishers to pull these cheap tactics to get out from absorbing the cost of a larger cartridge. Really poor form.
Are they gaining, what, $1 or 2 per sale?
That is a wasteful save file size. I understand the other file size requirements.
Ouch !
The 32gb system memory is starting to show its redundance which is a shame so early in the consoles life.
That save file size requirement is a friggin joke, what on earth is being saved in that data packet??
Constructive criticism incoming - At this rate , Nintendo will need to either ship the system with more flash storage as a revised unit, or a 'pro' edition (which so early on would really grind my gears) , or start shipping with a 64gb+ memory card in the box.
Modern gaming is hitting the Nintendrones hard today. This is funny. Glad to see some fanboys wake up and see that 32gb wasn't ok now.
It also means they're using an 8gb game card to not have a "switch tax" situation. Nintendo created this problem people.
Deal with it
@BlueOcean Would you have paid $100 extra for 64GB memory? Because that's the pricing model Apple uses, and likely the one Nintendo would.
@Menchi187 I'm just wondering what all the non-Nintendrones suggest Nintendo should have done. What, put a hard drive in the Switch, making the weight and battery life even worse? Or put a higher capacity NAND chip, which would dramatically increase the cost (look at iPhones, which use the exact same storage module, for reference).
Seriously I wish people would think before talking.
@TeslaChippie See comment #33.
@Cyberbotv2 I see a lack of confidence, otherwise they would have released on a 16gb card. This is a solid port, nothing more. But if they were confident in sales they would have absorbed the small cost of a bigger cartridge.
Now they have a convenient excuse if it doesn't sell to expectations. Except they won't blame themselves, they'll blame the Switch market.
@BlueOcean You mean 34? Because I agree with 33.
Of course companies do what they can to increase profits, especially if they're publicly traded. But are you seriously suggesting that all these problems would be solved if Nintendo had just included 64GB of memory? Please. You people would still be complaining all over the place.
@BlueOcean On the other platforms if you preordered it you got to play the game early with the "Tip-Off Edition". With the digital Switch version they just bypassed all that and released it today.
Seems like 2K opted to use 8 GB cartridges for the physical release of NBA 2K18. What a bunch of cheapstakes.
Even quick and dirty ports like LEGO City Undercover and the upcoming first Resident Evil Revelations used bigger cartridges, and those two games are far less successful than NBA 2K.
Also, 5GB for a save file is ridiculous. Arms, Splatoon 2, and Mario + Rabbids are smaller than that.
@TeslaChippie So you only reply if you disagree with people disagreeing?
I never said 64 GB would have been enough. I mean this comment of mine, probably not #33 because I ignored a rude person, or what some people here call (rude) Nintendrones.
"Honestly, I don't think that Nintendo reduced the price of Switch when they decided to cut the internal memory in half, they just wanted to increase profits. This theory also explains why Switch accessories and SD-like cartridges are obviously overpriced".
The Switch prototype was 64 GB.
5 GB for save data is ridiculous. I went from about 7 GB of free space on my internal memory to about 12 GB by archiving the ARMS Global Testpunch, Splatoon 2 Global Testfire, and Splatfest World Premiere (don't really need those anymore lol) as well as the demo for DQ Heroes I & II, so I'm good there.
This type of thing is exactly why Nintendo needs to introduce cloud saves ASAP.
@TeslaChippie It means their entire design shoulda changed if this was the outcome. Funny you mention apple though, since iphones have been officially exposed to be around €600 in profit per device sold when apple got forced to reveal it a few years back.
@Menchi187 Ha, the game just won't sell. It's the other way around, Nintendo has trained the "Nintendrones" to expect a full package. Because Nintendo knows their fans don't appreciate the way gamers are treated on other platforms.
For me and many the 32gb isn't an issue. Micro SD cards are pretty cheap. It's having to download many gigs after buying a physical cartridge.
This is on Take Two, do you suggest the Switch use discs? Do you really think the difference in cartridge cost between 8gb and 16gb is prohibitive to these 3rd parties?
It's bewildering when people shout down from their pedestal with enlightened morsels of perspective as if Nintendo fans live in a bubble.
@IceClimbers OK, thank you.
@BlueOcean Your theory is based on pure speculation. The Switch prototype was never sold, so we don't know by how much they "reduced the price."
They don't price things arbitrarily. Switch was the culmination of years of engineering and economics. They didn't put the 32GB chip in there just to piss you off.
@Menchi187 Like I said, Switch wasn't born overnight. It's the product of years of careful consideration and planning. You guys seem to think they could have willy-nilly changed any part of its design with no impact on the final price.
Gutted you cant change the 5GB save file to sd card
I really hope they change that in the very near future.
@BlueOcean But 5GB for a freaking save file is completly fine?
@ACK Nintendo fans are perfectly capable of rational discussion and realising this isn't ok. Nintendo fanboys (aka Nintendrones) aren't. The design of the Switch is unacceptable if these are all the options. They cut corners to achieve what they did and will have to deal with it. As will Nintendo gamers who buy these products. With increased physical costs, extra memory costs to get the FULL GAME THAT THEY ALREADY PAID FULL PRICE FOR, and games that have no physical version yet are sold at retail and will not fit on the Switch without an SD card (Resident Evil Revelations 2)
@MrBlacky I never said such thing. Check this:
"I can't find any explanation to the 5 GB save file in this game which is bigger than anything that The Sims or Minecraft ever had. Could that be what is called "Reserved space" on Xbox One games?"
@TeslaChippie How much money do you think that cost 32 GB more memory for a company that buys in high numbers like Nintendo? Is it okay for Nintendo to be that stingy and cut in half the original size? At the end of the day, is worse for them. Less space, lower sales, less money they get.
Eh, could be worse. I don't go for sports games, but at least I'll have an idea as to what'll happen with DOOM and possibly Skyrim.
But 5GB for a save file is quite ridiculous...
The game looks and plays amazing. I don't really care about the space needed. Buy a large micros SD and get over it.
@MsgBoardGamer the thing to remember is it's always Nintendo's fault. 2K being mean on buying cartridges? Nintendo's fault. 5GB save files? Nintendo's fault.
Okay, they (obviously) cheaped out on cartridge size, but STILL have the nerve to charge 69,99€ for this game?!!!!
I'm sorry, but this is bullshit!😠
@manu0 I agree.
I rather pay 20$ more, to have the publisher release the game on a 32 GB cartridge. The game is only 25gb in size!
Seriously folks, what should we do about it? Should we boycott these kind of games, so publishers would stop being cheap bastard's, and use those 32gb cartridges in the future?
The problem about this: Third party publishers would probably leave the Switch!!
So what to do? I don't like to support this kind of practice with releasing the game on small capacity cartridges! This should not become the standard procedure for Third party publishers!
Can we get a poll on this? What's worse: physical copies shipping with only part of the game or the 5GB save file?
I find it much harder to accept the 5GB save file.
@rjejr I just checked. Some Xbox One games have a 4.5 MB "saved data" (The Master Chief Collection). Others have 4 GB of "reserved space" (Final Fantasy XV).
@dres I agree with you. Personally, I don't think a boycott will be interpreted as anything other than "we don't want third party AAA games". This is unfortunate.
I don't want to say this but... buying NBA 2K18 (which looks awesome beyond the 5GB save file and half-a-game on the card issue) will ensure that NBA 2k19 is made. And... it might not have these issues. (Sorry! I hate myself)
Well, this is a bit of a turn off. I'm pretty excited for the game but with the physical release delay and now a 5GB file just for save data, I'm a bit on the fence. I'm going to wait for a few reviews and direct gameplay feeds before deciding to download it.
@MsgBoardGamer My phone got waterlogged when I was climbing Ben Nevis. It was ruined and I had to get a new one. Nintendo's fault.
@wiggleronacid likewise but I believe I am going to download tonight...
@sillygostly
No, It screams more of bad management, who only think about the smallest profit margins!
25-26GB is fine for this kind of game, but please release it on a 32GB cartridge then!!!
But yeah, ok... The 5GB savedata seems very sloppy programming / optimization!!!
@dres It's tricky. It you only have a Switch and you want this game why wouldn't you buy it? However, the reviews are not out yet so I wouldn't recommend to buy the game until reviews and impressions are available. Ideally, we should be able to play a demo. On Xbox One you have "The Prelude" for free, isn't there a demo on Switch as well?
This game still plays off the hook. I can't believe I have the full version on-the-go! MyCareer mode is awesome!
@BlueOcean "Others have 4 GB of "reserved space" (Final Fantasy XV)."
I have FFXV on my PS4, all 80GB even though I own it on disc, never deleting it though, it will probably be getting updated the rest of my life, and I do recall that large "reserved space". Since nobody in their right mind ever calls it "Reserved space" though I'm guessing that's what this is, they are reserving 5GB for whatever, calling it a save file. I'm still hoping for a patch though. 5GB on a SD card is one thing, 5GB on 32GB intenral, which I'm guessing less than 32GB are free to begin with, is a lot. And of course I'm most concerned about that "per save file" comment w/ 3 people in the house who would each have their own account. That 15GB would be more than half of the space. And with no cloud saves, and almost all games saving to that internal memory, well moving things around is one thing, deleting save files is another.
@dkxcalibur I still trade some games in, not as many as I used to, but knowing I'd never trade in Mario helped me just fork over $50 at Gamestop for the Switch Mario bundle. I feel dirty dealing with GS, and $50 seemed like a lot for a pre-order, but it was available, I was there, in a rush, so I took it. So that's Christmas shopping done for this year. I can put the tree up Columbus Day and take it down Nov 1.
Can I get some advice on the game? Are the Legacy editions worth it? Is any of this content exclusive? How does the price compare versus buying the stuff in-games?
Apologies but haven't played NBA 2kXX at all.
@Yorumi Well it's a good thing you buy a lot of games digitally then b/c I have a bad feeling that in a year or 2 this will be the norm, not the exception, from 3rd parties. Ntineod has magic fairy compression dust, they'll make it fit on carts. Of course it's their carts.
@rjejr Agreed. 5 GB of save file on a console that has only 32 GB of internal memory and that uses SD cards as external storage is crazy. Also, the save files of all your games are stored in the internal memory, right? You need a save file for each person and Switch supports multiple profiles so Nintendo encourages that. I don't know how people are going to handle it.
It's like Nintendo didn't expect third-party support at all. The generation began in 2012 (not counting 3DS) and Switch has been released in 2017, hasn't Nintendo check how much is required by today's games or did they not expect any big third-party release? It puzzles me.
PS4 owners would KILL for this kind of small numbers...
On PS4 it's like 50+gb
@BlueOcean what about the cost. If Nintendo would have went with 128GB+ the machine would have gone over the £300 barrier.
That would have been a mistake.
@Rika_Yoshitake
"PS4 owners would KILL for this kind of small numbers...
On PS4 it's like 50+gb"
But they have 500GB or 1TB available and Switch has 32 GB only.
32 GB is 6% of 500GB and 3% of 1TB.
Switch has 6% or 3% of the memory available on consoles and the SD cards have less memory and are much more expensive than external portable HDDs.
The 5GB save file is the same across all versions. Not just a switch thing
@kobashi100 "what about the cost. If Nintendo would have went with 128GB+ the machine would have gone over the £300 barrier.
That would have been a mistake".
I respect your opinion but I think that the only reason why they chose 32 GB is to get a bigger profit not to make the Switch more affordable because they get better deals than we buying flash memory. Switch is overpriced hardware like Wii U - and I love Wii U.
@JamesR how do you know that the cartridges don't have the full game? we don't know that yet.
@BlueOcean "did they not expect any big third-party release"
I'm guessing they knew and expected this to happen, but they either thought companies would pony up for the bigger carts and either eat the cost or pass it on to consumers. They also probably figured they'd have cloud save up by now.
Remember when they canceled Club Nintendo in the spring and the replacement was supposed to be out in the fall but didn't launch until the following spring? Remember when they said online would be ready this fall then delayed it until next year? So it's possible they had a solution for all this but it's taking them longer to implement, b/c it always does.
Though nobody can prepare for a 5GB save file, that's just absurd, Nintendo probably can't even comprehend a 5GB save file, some of their games - all on their 3DS games - near that size or less. People, myself included, keep comparing this to PS4 and X1, but in reality it's probably also a replacement for the 3DS, it's a tablet w/ removable controllers and a dock for TV out. We own three 3DS and I can't recall ever having this problem before. Maybe inside mythical Nintendo they were focused on Switch as their next gen 3DS and just missed the boat on the realities of this gen's home console needs?
@rjejr ha ha, I love it. Although, if it were for my sons, I would make them wait until December 25th to open it.
.....but you're going to want to play that game too.
October 27th happens to be my birthday so that's my excuse.
@rjejr I was about to write something along those lines in my comment. Was Switch supposed to be a handheld or a home console? Technically, it's replacing both 3DS and Wii U, although 3DS is alive and kicking and has as much support as Switch which is far beyond my most optimistic expectations as a New 3DS owner. Does it mean that it's replacing Wii U and that's why it's getting all these Wii U ports?
Now Switch is facing problems as a handheld and as a home console. In my opinion, it stands out as a handheld but faces problems of the home consoles with minor-scale solutions.
Like you said, Nintendo takes it time to sort things out. I think that they are already planning a successor, an upgrade or revision, but that would piss off Switch owners, probably. There are some things that they can fix right now with the current model, like making the bigger cartridges affordable for developers.
@BlueOcean it isn't overpriced though. Estimated at costing $257 to produce and Nintendo retail for $299.
Bigger memory pushes up the costs. Nintendo don't sell consoles at a loss and going over $300 would have been been a bad decision.
Bigger memory was just not possible
Passing on NBA 2k18.
Personally I don't give a crap about this extra data business or the fact that switch comes with 32gb storage! Lol all I wanted was an awesome console that I could play on the go with amazing games. I understand most people can't look at it as the glass is half full, as hell we need to let our inner drama queen out every now and then.
@kobashi100 @BlueOcean
http://nintendotoday.com/nintendo-switch-manufacturing-cost/
$257 just on manufacturing. Not including transportation or retailers profits.
I think if we could access the 32gb and the sd card, and transfer files between them rather than only use one. Then you'd have 64gb sd card plus 28gb of extra storage then have nearly 100gb of storage
@BlueOcean
Well, you are pretty good with a 128gb card for now. And I think Nintendo will make support for external hard drives before the end of the year, and before it's getting a real problem for most consumer's.
When 50GB AAA games do arrive, the current solution witch expensive SD-card is not going to work anymore!!!
But I think Nintendo thought about that long time ago. Or why else does the dock have a nice USB-3 port for no use?!?
External hard drive support would fix a lot of the problems the Switch have as a home console. And it seems the system can handle external storage pretty well.
Internal storage and SD-cards could then primarily be used for your favorite games, or games you want to play on the go. It would be a acceptable solution, together with save data management and cloud saves.
Nintendo will surely address most of these issues before it's getting a real problem for most consumer's. But we just like to make a problem bigger than it is.
In many ways, the Switch is still almost a beta product, and the first year seems like a test year for Nintendo!
I know a lot of people have said it but I can't help it....5gb save file??!!
@BlueOcean The Switch isn't overpriced. You get a 6.2" touch screen, a dock, two Joy-Con controllers, two Joy-Con straps, and a Joy-Con grip. The price is fair.
By the way, 5 GB for a save file is insane.
@dkxcalibur Happy birthday to you indeed.
As it turns out last year was the first year we really discussed
"no Santa" with the kids though they were way past the age - 1 turns 15 Sunday - just bought him Ever Oasis, long live the 3DS - and the other is 12. So they know this is it. We also won't be home for Christmas - 12 hour drive each way - and Thanksgiving - 5 hour drive each way - so Oct 27th works out well for us. Well better for them, I'll be driving.
Don't feel bad for them though, they're Jewish, they'll get gifts in December anyway. Probably 8 $10 eShop GC.
Has anyone downloaded it yet? I am interested to know what it is like.
As usual, a negative article on Nintendo Life brings out the usual suspects.... like flies round sh*t
@manu0 fair point. There's a lot of speculation and best to wait for the release.
I remember a similar issue with Lego City that turned out to be a misunderstanding.
@JohnSquarez I think this feature would be great. It was a nasty surprised when I needed to re-download BotW to get it saved to the SD card
@Yorumi "Still haven't put a sd card in the system"
I wasn't planning on 1 for awhile, but now I'm a bit worried w/ SMO being a digital download. And Monolith may be good, put XCX wasn't small. Hopefully they just manage to fit it all on 1 card and that's that. My kid wants Sonic Forces, which is 3rd party, but shouldn't be this bad. I'm actually not sure what else we'll get, I basically am getting this for Mario and XC2, its' my kids system after that, I'll be on PS4 all next year anyway.
@justin233 Jeez dude, chill. You shared your opinion and others can share their own. No need to be offended because someone thinks differently.
@Yorumi "But most products are actually sold at around two to three times their manufacturing costs to make a profit."
You're mistaken. Gross profit margins of most companies aren't that high. A GPM of 30% is quite good. Where did you get that information from? Which companies have GPMs of 100-200%?
@BlueOcean "There are some things that they can fix right now with the current model, like making the bigger cartridges affordable for developers."
Or including a 64GB SD card in the box going forward. Or bundle one w/ the Pro or a set of Joycon. And start making new Switch w/ 64GB standard. PS3 had a bigger HDD size seemingly every 6 months over 5 years - 20, 40, 60, 80, 120, 160, 250, 500, 12. (I bought the 12) HDD support for the dock for people, like me, who will only play docked. My kids will mostly play portable, that's their problem. Cloud saves, that aren't locked behind a paid subscription.
They'll do stuff, the videogame industry never stands still anymore, it's not the smartphone or PC business, but it changes fairly regularly - see 3DS, 3DS XL, 2DS, New 3D, New 3DS XL, New 2DS. That's about 1 every 18 month over 8 years. I'd wait, but I already waited for Mario (which I'm willing to bet started life as a Wii U game, Wii U never got a proper Galaxy follow up, SM3DW was too linear and multiplayer focused) I'm done waiting.
5gb per save file is utter nonsense.. they need to learn how to code properly
@kobashi100 Not sure if I can trust that Kobashi, Nintendo like Microsoft and Sony get much better deals that those estimates. 32 GB is ridiculous if you ask me. It's fine for a 3DS or a phone, but Switch? I see what you mean, though.
Why on earth is 5GB per user file? Do they upload all your lifetime's facebook videos and pictures history together?
@dres What you said makes sense.
For all those saying 2k18 should of been been on a bigger cartridge. I agree but why should they foot the cost.
This is a Nintendo problem.
As it is they are already taking a big risk bringing this out for the switch.
Nintendos hasn't really made it easy for the big third parties.
All these comments about PlayStation uses more space on its hard drive, its true but the entry level comes with 500gb.
You can buy a PS4 new and this game but wouldn't need to buy additional storage. You can't say the same for the switch.
Nintendo needs third party. Third party doesn't need Nintendo.
@NinNin Hmm, a bit overpriced compared to other handhelds and consoles, perhaps?
After a lot of back and forth I've just purchased it. It looks like I'll be waiting 5h for the download...
Hey guys anyone of you notice on the eShop listing of nba2k17 under features and accessories it says it's supports touchscreen and Surround Sound linear PCM. Any clue as to what you can use the touch screen for? In game ? Maybe menus?
@Yorumi The articles you read are inaccurate. Most companies don't have GPMs of 100%. That's insanely high. I'd be very interested to invest in such companies.
You can use https://ycharts.com to check GPMs of many companies. For example, in the past 5 years, Apple has an average quarterly GPM of 38.82%: https://ycharts.com/companies/AAPL/gross_profit_margin.
@MariOnline third parties need Nintendo (and Microsoft) otherwise Sony has a monopoly.
@JamesR I can agree with that but Nintendo don't really make it easy for themselves do they.
@Yorumi
Yeah, I'm not sure what fact checking goes on but the firm involved in that particular teardown is supposed to be very reputable. It's their business to get these things right. My own suspicion is Nintendo make pennies on the Switch but just bragged about not taking a loss in order to appease investors.
@rjejr "Or including a 64GB SD card in the box going forward. Or bundle one w/ the Pro or a set of Joycon. And start making new Switch w/ 64GB standard".
That's right. Similarly, each model of Xbox One is improved. Even the Xbox One controller has been improved multiple times and DualShock 4 now comes with a narrow window for the light on the upper side that the original didn't have.
Including the Switch pro controller in the bundle makes a lot of sense to me because I don't like the joycons and most people are used to traditional controllers. I was disappointed to learn that Switch doesn't support the Wii U pro controller, that I own.
Starting to manufacture 64 GB Switches or including an SD card also makes a lot of sense to me, recent 3DS models include bigger SD cards than the first model, not to mention PS4 and Xbox One.
Buying a Switch, a big SD card and a pro controller separately is too much money for what you get without a single game!
@BlueOcean Wii U pro controller working on Switch. Not out of the box, but it looks possible
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=l9vDnyoDwIE
@Yorumi Nintendo could eat the cost but we both know the answer
@Yorumi Yep, same here. I hate the joycons, they are ridiculously small. I tried with the grip, a bit better but cramps after a while. Switch should support the Wii U pro controller as well.
@Gerald it's is possible with the adapter. Even PS3 PS4 controller work on the switch.
@Gerald Do you need an adapter? The Wii U pro controller uses Bluetooth like Switch, why Switch doesn't support it? To force people to buy the Switch pro controller.
@Shiryu That is literally the only logical and correct way to react to ridiculous save file sizes like that.
What is this world coming to? Lazy @ss developers. I fondly remember the time that we could make our standard GameCube/Dreamcast/Playstation memory packs last for years, regardless of the type of game...
@ThanosReXXX If this keeps up they might need to make a dock with USB storage... I would take that over these SD Cards memory chunks for a single game!
Good lord, that's just atrocious. They didn't even bother with compressing/optimizing their data, apparently.
I heard even the 149,99€ "NBA 2K18 - Legend Edition Gold" for Switch comes on a 8GB cartridge. What a rip off!
For that price I would expect the full game on a 32 - nah! - 128GB cartridge! With a 15GB on-cart battery save!
Yeah, it's nice to get high-end sports games on a Nintendo console, but with an asking price of 149.99€ you put your game on a 32GB - not an 8GB - card! Bandits.
@BlueOcean from the Video it looks like you need an adaptor. I suppose if Nintendo made it work officially without an adaptor, there would people moaning that HD rumble doesn't work, of NFC doesn't work.
@MariOnline the option is there if people want to use them, is that not a good thing ?
@Shiryu Or what @dres suggested, the dock to support external HDD like Wii U does.
@Gerald Why would anybody complain if they can buy a Switch pro controller if they want? Wii U supports GameCube controller (Super Smash Bros. 4, at least), Wii Remote, Wii nunchuk, Wii Classic Controller, Wii Classic Controller Pro and Wii U Pro Controller and I haven't heard anyone complaining yet.
Mario Kart 8 and Sonic & All-Stars Racing Transformed support them all and also Wii Wheel.
I didn't expect Switch to support all Wii and Wii U controllers but at least the Wii U pro controller would have been nice, because that was kind of a "mandatory" purchase for their last and quite recent console.
@Gerald options are always a good thing. Checked this a while back but last I checked on Amazon its half the price of the pro controller. It's 25 pounds in Amazon uk. Inputs work but rumble is not there. Future updates might fix this. Again it supports various controllers
@Yorumi I have that game, and the accompanying memory card, but it isn't completely filled with that one game, so there's space left.
But even if it would need the entire card, it was a so-called "Memory Card 59", consisting of 59 "blocks" to make up a grand total of 4MB of Flash memory.
Now compare that to this ridiculously sized save file in NBA 2K18...
@Yorumi To add to that, and in my humble opinion, they should have simply struck a deal with Nintendo for a larger size cartridge, instead of bothering consumers with this kind of BS.
@Shiryu Sounds like a plan. Tweet Nintendo...
@Yorumi Completely agreed. Obviously, I'm no developer, but in my mind, I always see a save game as nothing more than a marker on a map, to signify your position, almost like skipping to/resuming from a certain point on a music CD or a Blu-ray movie.
At the very most, I can understand the file size being somewhat bigger due to achievements, add-ons or changes you made in the team setup, buying/selling players and so on, but other than that, nothing factual seems to warrant such a ridiculously large file.
It feels like having to hire a sea container to store a few chairs and a lamp...
@BlueOcean I'm sure there would be people on this Website who would complain lol.
With the Wii to Wii U reference, i don't recall there being any addition functions on Wii U that weren't on Wii. After all it is part of the Wii family, hence the name Wii U.
Perhaps Nintendo wanted to separate the Switch brand from the Wii brand, a fresh start, a clean slate, or perhaps they are evil, greedy, money grabbing Nintendo. Who knows.
@Shiryu That doesn't make sense. Games that use the USB storage wouldn't work in handheld mode.
@BlueOcean Other handheld consoles don't come with docks and detachable controllers and the Switch is much more powerful than them. The Switch is almost 14 times as powerful as the PS Vita. Other consoles don't come with touch screens and detachable controllers. The Switch can't be directly compared with other consoles.
@LegendOfPokemon it's probably more accurate to say it's ridiculous a save file eats up 5gigs...
@NinNin I do NOT mind loosing portability to play these games that need huge installations.
@wiggleronacid I'm chill. You chill.
@NinNin
Well, I think it's obvious that the Switch will get external hard drive support down the line, just like with the Wii U. The USB-3 port in the dock really is there for that.
It would also make a lot of sense. It would be a fantastic options for those that use the Switch mainly as a home console. And if AAA games keep getting bigger and bigger, and perhaps one day are as big as 50GB, the current storage solution with SD-cards will just not be good enough for many people.
Portable gamers can stil transfer thier favorite games for the go on the internal storage, or a SD-cards. And many games will also still be small enough, and can still fit into a singe cartridge. So no big deal.
I am pretty impressed with the way the Switch handles external storage right now. You can easily switch between different SD-cards, and the Switch quickly detects wich games are available for you to play, and which games can't be accessed. Why not put a big capacity storage option in the mix, like an external hard drive? It would just add another option for consumers.
Soooooo... when we get the new generation Switch in two years, maybe it'll have 128GB internal memory and we'll finally have 1TB SD cards. :3
@JHDK wait is that new? ive never noticed the estimated time left
SD Cards are so cheap, I have no issues with the Switch being 32GB, I think of it this way, smartphones that allow SD Cards you're a fool if you buy the more expensive one with the higher onboard storage.
IF hardware allows for cheaper expaned storage its always cheaper to add it yourself, if a manufacture adds storage for you they always overcharge
The limitations on where you can and can't save files to is annoying but will surely change eventually. 5GB save files does sound pretty insane given that current limitation. What I don't understand here though is people getting so upset saying that the Switch should have had 64GB internal rather than 32GB. A 32GB microSD is £9.99, so getting that extra 32 is really not worth whining about as surely saves this big are going to be rare and you will be able to move data in the not too distant future. It was never going to come with 1TB or something as it's a portable and that would cost a fortune. I'm a battle scarred Vita owner with several of Sony's memory cards, so none of this can excite me too much.
@ValhallaOutcast While a game is downloading, click on the game icon like you want to start playing. A box will come up with a status bar showing the download progression percentage and the estimated time until finished.
@rjejr Cartridge prices will go down. Reading from a cartridge is much faster than a hard disk unless it is a solid state so it increases the Switch's performance quite a bit. The first year or two will be a little painful until 32gb and 64gb cartridge prices go down. Nintendo should have put 64gb in the system. I'm sure the internal storage will be bumped up a lot with the next iteration of the Switch.
Considering it's 47 GB on PS4, they compressed it well!
How many comments do we have to write to fill up 5GB?
@JHDK cool I swear before it was just a percent and no estimate time left but of course I can be not remembering right
@roboshort be realistic if Nintend put 64GB in they would charge triple the differnce it cost for the Switch and a 32GB card
Heck I would argue a Switch and 128GB cards would be the same price as if Nintend put the 64GB in for you
@rjejr 5 million 1000-character comments.
@roboshort "The first year or two"
Don't forget the other half of the equation. Sure, card prices will get cheaper, but do you see game sizes getting smaller or bigger going forward?
2 years from now PS5 and Xbox Eleven might launch, and almost 4k Pro is out now, and Scorpio X is months away. So devs are starting to make everything in 4k, that means bigger games. Now Switch won't play 4k games, it'll continue to get the downsized "last gen" version, but does anything make you think devs will go the extra mile to really shrink their games down to a reasonable size?
The Switch is only 6 months old, and already it's getting games that require you to buy extra storage to play a game on cart. Forget about the size or the ratios to other systems, 6 months after release if you buy this game on cart - not a download, on a $60 cart - you must first buy and install a separate memory card to play it. This isn't 2 or 3 years after launch like the N64 RAM, 6 months. So the floodgates are already open. People NEED to buy SD cards. So what reason is there for devs to try harder or spend more money on bigger cards if they know Switch owners have been trained nearly since launch to buy an SD card? Why should devs pay more for larger carts if they don't have too? Why make their games smaller?
Sorry, carts will get cheaper, but games will get bigger, and devs have no reason to pay or try. A few will, but EA is known as the worst company in America for a reason.
As a person who has this game and can tell you first hand. The 5 gig internal storage was a big turn off, however having said that this game is HUGE therefore i can understand why they need to accomodate the huge storage, there is so much customisation, also got Myteam, Mycareer also having the playgrounds area. I felt actually overwhelmed at the amount of content. This not game is not for everyone, but for hardcore NBA fan or basketball in general its a must buy. Its the full game like the other console which we have been complaining about (eg fifa). So i think its either your damned if even they give us a full game or make it smaller with less feature for storage and higher framerate. I am sure this will be an issue with other big dev games too.
@JJ286 It is very different. ZAll major AAA games on the iPhone don't amount to more than 2GB (taht I know off), leave alone 20-24GB (comparing 26GB free on the Switch vs the 36-37GB needed for this game).
It all could be avoided so easily with Nintendo going the cheaper, faster SD route (with 2TB cards being readied) instead of micro SD.
@NinNin "5 million 1000-character comments."
Thanks. We'll I better go put a pot of coffee on and start a fight with @ThanosReXXX was'up 😆
@rjejr "So what reason is there for devs to try harder or spend more money on bigger cards if they know Switch owners have been trained nearly since launch to buy an SD card? Why should devs pay more for larger carts if they don't have too? Why make their games smaller?"
Fantastic comment and I wish it was right at the top and not get lost somewhere
@SLIGEACH_EIRE Super Smash Bros. Wii U version is 15.5 GB with all the Updates and DLC already installed.
@Olmectron Wrong. It's 15.6GB's for the base game.
Super Smash Bros. Wii U Download Size Is 15.6 GB
http://nintendonews.com/news/wii-u/super-smash-bros-wii-u-download-size/
That was before any additions. The DLC is about another 3.1 GB's.
Google translated:
"If you have not downloaded update data even once after purchase, you will need up to 3.1 GB of free space."
https://www.nintendo.co.jp/support/wiiu/soft/axfj/update/index.html
@rjejr Interesting points, but I am not so sure of that. We don't know how this experiment will work out. It may backfire on them with fewer sales. And game file size is probably increasing linearly now, while storage is increasing exponentially. If the price difference is neglible it would behoove them not to go with larger capacity carts. There are also policies Nintendo could enforce to remedy the problem. It just does not make business sense to do that yet. Also, EA is not the culprit this time; 2k is. FIFA fits on a cart.
I'll never understand why sports games eat so much memory. I have the old MVP baseball games on PS2 and they would eat a ton of memory off of my PS2 memory cards. It seems like 2K could've done a lot better job of compressing here, I dunno.
@ThanosReXXX
I don't understand the 5 gb save. I think the bigger problem though is Nintendo forcing saves to internal memory which can't be expanded.
I'm not sure a bigger cart really solves the issue on a day 1 patch. I'd prefer no day 1 patch but this has become common as developers try to hit tight deadlines. No cart is going to be re-writable. So if you aren't okay with large patches being released then you'll have to be okay with the Switch version being released months after the other versions.
You're in computer parts sales so honest question. I didn't understand why Nintendo wouldnt release the Switch with 4 or 8 GB flash just for the OS and a 64 or 128 GB microsd. Since flash is so many times more costly it seems like this would be cost neutral while providing a great deal more storage for the consumer. The only positive I could see is the flash is faster, but it's marginally faster and doesn't seem to be large enough to really take advantage of it being faster.
@Fake-E-Lee I find myself generally feeling the same way. I enjoy playing Western AAA games--but in general they don't get me excited in anticipation, they don't leave me with a sense of wanting to return to them when I'm done, and they don't disappoint me to miss out on them.
I have a PS3 that I got to complement my Wii, a few years into the generation when there was a better library and prices were cheaper, and I always figured I'd do the same thing again: get a PS4 to complement my Wii U. But two things happened. First, about the time of E3 two years ago, I noticed how much Sony and Microsoft were touting how PC-like their consoles were, a message which has been reinforced by two subsequent E3s. And second, that the number of PS4 exclusives I was interested in paled in comparison to the number of PC exclusives I was interested in. These were essentially all indies, just because of the economics of the situation--AAA publishers have enough money to put their games on console; small indie studios might not. Why would I buy a PC wannabe with a smaller library when I can get an actual PC with a bigger one? So that's what I'll do (eventually). When I do, I'll play more AAA games, because I'll be able to. If Switch gets more, I'll play more, for the same reason. (Doom and L. A. Noire are at the top of that list.) But what isn't coming doesn't faze me one bit.
A much much bigger issue for me isn't the 5GB save file but the way the game handles its internet connection. I played 20 minutes on my career earlier and put my switch to sleep to go to the toilet. Awoke the switch and lost all my progress because sleep mode disconnects from 2K network. This connection is required it seems. For on the go gaming where you need to pause and sleep switch regularly this will be a nightmare, that's provided you can even connect on the go.
I admire 2Ks ambition in putting this on Switch but it feels like a bad fit. Perhaps EA had the right idea with FIFA all along
I don't understand why. Breath of the Wild was only 13 gigs, and that's a MASSIVE fantasy game. What the bloody hell could be in a Basketball game that is so space intensive?
Still, I DO NOT MIND the Micro SD card requirement and you shouldn't either. It's 2017. Get over it.
Remember when Donkey Kong 64 required a RAM pack and it was packaged with the game?
Remember how Animal Crossing GCN required an entire 59 block memory card for saving your village and one was packaged with the game?
Here we are 6 months since the Switch was launched and several supposedly physical games are requiring large downloads and the purchase of additional hardware. There's more on the horizon but Nintendo's leaving us holding the bag.
I'm really curious how sales of the Switch version of NBA2K18 hold up compared to PS4 and X1. If I had to choose between the PS4 and Switch versions today I'd go with the option that doesn't immediately require an additional hardware purchase.
Tinfoil Hat Time: The physical version of NBA2K18 for Switch was delayed a month so when it sells poorly it can be blamed on the delay instead of the required SD card purchase.
Ok correction to my earlier comment. When I got dumped back to main menu after putting switch to sleep I had clicked on my career before clicking connect to 2K. That prompted an offline my career new game which seems to be missing all the story stuff and just gives a calendar of matches. It's confusing as hell.
Anyway basically the whole story mode only appears to be available when have a wifi connection.
Would be interested if someone can ask 2K what kind of system limitations led them down this path.
@Some_Donkus You buy one good SD card and you are set for dozens of games.
@Nostromo8 : 2K started that a few years ago, tying in game things to the servers, namely my career. I've never played my career on my xbox one in any 2K version. The franchise and my GM mode are the meat of the game, and those can be played/saved for offline play.
@Heavyarms55 So you're okay with purchasing additional hardware despite the fact that NBA2K18 should be able to fit on the internal memory already present in the Switch (at least in theory)? Would you be this calm if it were Sony or Microsoft telling you that a game required the purchase of a second HDD just to play it?
@Some_Donkus There is a HUGE different between an external hard drive and a simple SD card. But as to Sony and Microsoft, those are dedicated home consoles and a different type of device. The Switch is a Tablet that you can play on TV.
But to answer your question, no I wouldn't be, because if they did what Nintendo has done, I would have known from before the release of the device, that I would need additional storage. Which I did know for the Switch, which well knew. Further, you can get a 128GB card for 35-40 bucks.
@roboshort "EA is not the culprit this time"
This time. But you would have to think there will be others. Madden is 36GB this year. After NBA and FIFA most people are probably thinking Madden next year.
DQ11 is 30GB. (I know that's Squenix, not EA either) Remember when they said they were having "adult issues" with DQ11 on Switch? Maybe file size and the cost of the carts was the problem?
https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2017/05/square_enix_silent_on_switch_dragon_quest_xi_due_to_adult_circumstances
Only the beginning. (inside Switch storage management)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZuZ7DG1KPA
This is just ridiculous... 5GB for a save file? What kind of developer think that is something acceptable? It smells of rushed port.
And the game fits perfectly in a 32GB cartridge with room to spare, so why the hell are they using a 8GB cartridge? Is not that the game is cheap or anything...
Man, 2K just lost a customer. I'm not buying this game because of that horrible requirements.
Edit: I went to Twitter to vent my frustration on 2K and NoA... for all the good it will do... they never listen, they don't care.
@Heavyarms55 So because you know you were shortchanged on hardware it's okay? Got it. 😉
@maceng ppl will still complain they need to buy an SD card.
@rjejr I don't think so because Square Enix uses a 32 GB game card for Dragon Quest Heroes I & II for Nintendo Switch.
@JJ286 Yes, probably. Still, SD cards are cheaper, come in larger sizes and are set to hit 2T in the very near future (3-6 months, methinks).
@BlueOcean It launched on Friday on PS4/XBO with Early Access to people who preordered beginning on Tuesday I believe. The Switch version also came out digitally Friday with the physical version coming on October 17.
Gotta get those clicks, can't put a little info in the title.
@Rayquaza2510 exactly, enough of the nonsense. Just subsidize the cards. This is all nintendo's mess.
wow 5 gb for save. even i want to support third party game. but maan.. for years I've been playing on my pc and never i waste this much space for saving game.
Been cool if they made the dock also be a external hard drive enclosure. Easily swap games back and forth when you want to take it with you.
@maruse it's not a rushed port at all. Looks superb on switch.
Also the huge save file requirement is for all consoles. I have been told it was the same last year.
I really hope it won't be the same mess when FIFA comes out in a couple of weeks :/ I can see that be a problem if they had used the Frostbite engine, but using a custom built engine hopefully mean that things are properly optimized and all fit on one cartridge. And save files should be a bit less than 2k's...
All it took was 3 games to practically wipe out my PS4's memory. This isn't such a big deal when SD cards are so cheap, but I do agree that they should have increased the cart size (or at least got some compression tips from Nintendo).
@kobashi100 OK then, but that 5GB per save file is just ridiculous. That is the same for all consoles doesn't make it any better.
That's the main reason I'll probably stay away from the game. If save files were on the cartridges or the SD that might alleviate it, but taking 5GB of the small system memory is a big no no.
@JamesR it's gotta be a misprint.
when would you think will the reviews are out? @nintendolife
OK. I now have a copy of NBA 2K18.
My install is as follows:
-6.8GB of "Software" on the SD Card
-16.1GB of "Update data" on the SD Card
Both the above were downloaded when I purchased the game.
Once the game is started another 3.0GB of "Update Data" is copied to/installed on the system memory. This was not an additional download.
I also have 75.5MB of save data.
I opened the game under a new profile and saw another 75.5MB of save data created.
My guess is that this game needs 26GB (of which 3GB is onboard) and uses 75.5MB for each sale file. This obviously contradicts the statement by 2K - but it is what I'm seeing.
@maruse not saying it's okay. Just making a point that its not some exclusive switch problem like some people are claiming.
@JamesR that makes lot more sense as the 3.0GB required for each save file would be crazy.
As someone who cautiously bought this on Switch, I want to say it's fantastic. Very good presentation, looks great, sounds great. I'm not familiar with this series and haven't played an NBA game since the Gamecube - but colour me impressed.
So basically, a 23 GB day 1 update, plus another 3GB to be copied onto the system storage. That's a pretty significant chunk (or even nearly the whole card) out of most of the more affordable 32GB - 128GB SD cards, plus nearly 10% of system memory. Pretty sure most people are just going to opt for other options when there's data breakup like this. They probably could have condensed a lot of the update files onto 9GB along with the almost 7GB additional base software, and filled up a 32 GB card. They didn't want to spend more resources and effort on an NS port, then...
Whatever happened to Nintendo being a bastion against day 1 DLC/updates? This isn't much different from other home consoles pretending to be PC's. At least in their case, they can be installed from the disc 10+ years from now. What's going to happen to games that take this data break up stance when NS game files are inevitably unavailable to download anymore? I guess the days of games on Nintendo hardware all being preservable legacies is over...
@JamesR I am thinking about getting this but was a bit nervous, I've not heard much about the Switch version of this game (except for the memory issue on here). Even the eShop shows no preview screenshots or video. My biggest fear is that it might an unoptimised port. Does it run smoothly?
@Shane76 Nah, 1TB HDD's are $50, much cheaper than SD cards. That kind of money only takes you up to an 128GB SD card. Flash storage has gotten cheaper over the years, but it's not that cheap yet... Disc platters are going to remain relevant for a while yet.
I can't imagine the ammount of ghost data and I optimised code in the game to require 5GB per save
Nintendo should either launch cloud saves (included in their paid service, perhaps), so we can swap games in and out, the way most people with an iPad had become accustomed to, or sell a more premium version of the Switch (Switch Pro?). With saves files (or more likely game installs) that clock in at 5Gb, it won't take long before that 32GB is used up...
@Gerald it seems impressive as far as I can see. I'm not an NBA 2K veteran and don't have an XBoxOne or PS4 to compare what the "expected" performance should be.
As far as I can tell, it's very polished but I would wait for review videos to appear (it's been very quiet, hasn't it?). I will enjoy this as a daily pick-up-and-play a match on the train. I have yet to play on the TV.
@Gerald BTW, I jumped in after watching RGT 85's thoughts on youtube. He's a PS4 owner and NBA 2K player and he seems to think this is a "legit" version of the game.
@JamesR it is. I'd say the graphics gameplay is just as good as the PS4. I'd say 2k has done a great job
@MariOnline nah visually it's not as nice as PS4 or Xbox one but that's expected.
Looks nice though for sure and a step above Wii U, PS3 and 360
@kobashi100 true but seeing file sizes and everything. It's a good
I'm quite skeptic towards having to download so much in order to play the game. But 5 GB save files is completely out of the question. I can't fathom what they are using it for.
@flapjack-ashley Thanks for clarifying.
@Nin-Nin I don't think so.
Nintendo needs to accept a costs for providing developers with the 32 gb game cartridge. It will appease both the developers and customers.
Also, people need to understand that there will be trade offs for being an "affordable" hybrid console. Not enough memory for a AAA title is the trade off for having it portable.
Think i'll just wait a month and buy physical.
If Xbox One and PS4 are PCs because they need updates, patches and installations then Switch is a PC with storage problems. If you get an Xbox One or PS4 game physically you can install it and uninstall as many times as you want. You can plug in an external HDD and one second later play the games on it, you can move games from one storage to another. Even Wii U supported this.
On Switch you need to download half of the game or more even if it's physical like NBA2K18 each time you install it which is even less convenient considering its "portable" nature. Nintendo is known for shutting down online services early on (DS, Wii) and even eShops (DSi). In the future these games could be impossible to play.
The dock should support HDD to solve this problem so people are able to copy their games from HDD to internal storage or SD card and vice versa. It's simple, makes sense and doesn't harm anybody.
I really don't get what all the fuss is about. I consider 28GB to be small. NBA2k on PC is twice as big. 28GB are also barely more than XCX's filesize in Wii U.
What did everyone expect, that every game is only 1GB?
Stop whining about the filesize, this is 2017, not 2002.
@techdude If cloud saves are for Nintendo Online suscribers only it would be disappointing. Cloud saving is free and automatic on Xbox One and not free on PS4 but PS4 lets you copy your save data to a USB drive optionally.
@kobashi100 Are the visuals between last-gen and current-gen then? That would explain why the game is bigger on Xbox One/PS4. It would be interesting to see the performance on Switch (frame rate, smoothness...) and see if it's as good as the PS/XB version because that's more important than visuals in my book.
@NinNin "I don't think so because Square Enix uses a 32 GB game card for Dragon Quest Heroes I & II for Nintendo Switch"
Well that's good to know, thanks. Maybe there is a viable path forward after all.
So, what's the deal with DQ11 on Switch then? If it's not one thing it's another. 😠
@BlueOcean switch is stable 30fps against stable 60fps
@rjejr wasn't DQ heroes II priced more for the consumer because they used 32GB card. Will switch owners be prepared to pay let's say $5 more for every game that uses 32GB card.
@kobashi100 You'd have to ask the other guy, I just copied and pasted his comment and thanked him for it, I have no idea as I believe it's only out in Japan.
@JamesR thanks for your feedback. I will take a look at RGT85's vid
@NinNin e.g. Apple. Enormous markups from the actual value of their products, and they just raised their prices again recently. Their newest phone is marked up to $1000.
Also, there are hundreds of companies where the CEO collects several hundreds of times more money per year than their lowest paid (i.e. average) or even median wage worker, often using means other than raw product margins. In particular, Larry Merlo of CVS Health earns over 1000x the pay each year of his employee's average annual wages. The average Standard and Poor 500 company CEO makes over 200 times as much as the median wage of all their workers, although AFL-CIO records place many CEO's in their US company database at an average of over 300 times median worker wages.
In short, we don't need to worry about thr profit margins of products made for multibillion dollar companies like Nintendo, Sony, Microsoft, etc. The market in general is making record profits at the common person's expense.
@kobashi100 I see...
About Dragon Quest Heroes I & II is £67 on Amazon the Japanese version, the only one that exists for Switch. This is an import, though.
@JamesR Thanks for all the updates. I have an almost related question - how's the Wifi? I'm annoyed the $90 dock doesn't have an ether net port, and connecting the 3DS to Wifi is one of the most annoying things ever - 2 kids, lots of hotel rooms and McDonald's. Pre-ordered my Mario Switch bundle yesterday knowing it will be awhile before I get to play the game, Nintendo servers will be hammered with everyone trying to download it.
So, to get to my point, besides the expected agonizing download wait, how is it first time hooking-up the Switch to Wifi? I really should have bought my Switch first, game on cart, but my kids and I want the bundle.
@BlueOcean and that's what will happen with other third party publishers. they will pass the cost on to the consumer. So when the retail game is $5 or $10 more due to 32GB card being used people will moan lots. If they release game on smaller cards and require install on to SD card people will still complain.
@MsgBoardGamer Not yet, anyways. Certainly, plenty of people seem to be accepting it, particularly in the case of DOOM, where the single player game is fully playable, but the multiplayer mode has to be downloaded. The space requirement on PC/other consoles is about 45 GB, plus up to 30 GB in updates/downloads. Bethesda has somehow figured out how to compress that into an NS card, minus multiplayer and SnapMap, so it may use a 32GB card. What's stopping Nintendo's own titles from following suit if they want to create a particularly large game, especially a few years down the line?
For card sizes... I wonder if Nintendo is getting special wholesale rates on cards for their own titles. (Kind of like how it was with N64 carts, except not as pronounced since Nintendo doesn't own the cart factory this time around.)
@MsgBoardGamer That's a bit of nonsense. It was detailed in an article here in NL that using 32GB cards implies a cost of over 20 bucks. Also, as of lately, sports games on a Nintendo console are largely untested for a company that wants to make a profit and continue making games for the platform.
Nintendo should have been prepared for this, by:
1) offering a SD solution instead of microSD: a 256GB card costs around 90 bucks, while a micro SD is 160.
2) an external HD solution, that while not as elegant, can cater to about 50% of Switch users (those that don't take their Switch outside).
@Shiryu I agree 5GB?!? per save...WTF! That's just stupid. The rest of it I'm fine with.
Just for reference:
"ARMS" = 2.2GB
"NBA 2k18" single save data file = 5.0GB
"Splatoon 2" = 5.5GB
"Super Mario Odyssey" = 5.7GB
"Breath of the Wild" = 13.4GB
2K games, you're killing me here!
On another note, I am also looking forward for someone to step forward and claim "It was me! I bought the €150 euro edition of 'NBA 2K18' for Switch!"
@Amsterdamsters I think that the description is worded incorrectly and that we are supposed to allocate 5GBfor all saved files. It agrees with what one user found: saves files taking around 75MB each.
I am still baffled by what that 5GB save contains if not graphics and sound files, no matter how many players or teams there are , the numeric data should not be more than a few hundred MBs at most, heck even the full Windows was around 4GB or something... Then they could have zip it up and the data would be even less..
@MsgBoardGamer Even more nonsense. So, they need to take a 15-20 busk hit on a game selling at 60? Consider this: Amazon and BestBuy sells the game for 48, take Amazon's profit, marketing, making the game costs and 15 dollars. What is left, 10-12 dollars? Maybe.
It is not a charity to make a game, regardless of what you think. Gaming companies do need to make a profit.
Also, you seem to forget that Nintendo is also a billion dollar company, with more than 7 billion on cash reserves.
@MsgBoardGamer I don't need Nintendo to be generous to me in particular. Is the other way around, I'm being generous to Nintendo (maybe 10x more than you. Just look at my profile pic: that is less than half my collection).
The thing is that Nintendo is also taken a lot of flak for their decision. If a given game, much specially AAA titles don't sell or have problem selling on the Switch, Nintendo also gets hurt (look at the Wii U). The cost of using a SD card reader inside the Switch cost less than using the micro SD one. Or allow users a USB drive: a micro 128GB USB drive cost less than 40, maybe 35 if you look around, and it occupies less than 3mm outside the port.
@cleveland124 To be honest, I don't see any reason why Nintendo couldn't strike a deal with third party developers to get them to use a bigger card, and if that does indeed mean that we would get the Switch version a bit later, but without all the hassle, then so be it, and I would think most people would feel the same.
And since most of these patches are day one, the release of that patched version could be released as soon as three weeks to a month later, so that's not really a very big deal in my opinion.
As for your question: well, nowadays, the size of flash-based memory isn't really EXACTLY relevant to the speed anymore: there are more than enough large capacity storage mediums with fast reading speeds, and you're right that Nintendo could have easily put a 64GB or even 128GB flash module in the Switch with next to no extra cost to them, since they'd buy them in the millions, so the bulk prices would at most be anywhere between $4 - $8 extra for them.
And they wouldn't even have to charge that to the customer to be able to still make a profit on the device itself. But for whatever reason, they chose not to go with a bigger size. I myself was also quite (unpleasantly) surprised by that, and I wonder if we'll ever get to hear about the real reason behind that decision, but probably not, so it's going to be yet another one of those baffling and mysterious Nintendo factoids...
I won't complain about the roughly 20 gigs for the game itself, but 5GB for a save file? That's ludicrous.
@rjejr Well, to be honest, I haven't been in anything of a fighting mood of late, mostly due to all the recent goings-on in my private life, the details of which are probably lost somewhere in that backlog of 300+ messages in your inbox...
And coffee don't work for me. Make it a cuba libre and we'll talk...
@rjejr wifi on the Switch has been absolutely fine for me. It's a million miles ahead of 3DS and the downloads are much, much faster. You can also play games and have the downloading going on in the background (unlike 3DS).
The 23GB on NBA 2K18 took me around 2-3 hours. A lot will depend on which wifi protocol you use, the Switch supports up to ac (which I believe would be technically faster than a wired connection via the Switch's USB).
I got BotW on release date (midnight!) and downloaded digitally and there wasn't any problem.
The only odd thing about the Switch's wifi connection is that the number of bars shown on the unit (for signal strength) is always on the low side. I'm pretty sure this is just a display issue though. Despite being rarely on full strength I have had any problems with Splatoon 2, ARMS or Mario Kart 8.
Just tested the speed of my connection from the Switch's settings menu and see: 19.0Mbps down and 8.4Mbps up.
NBA is just about poor memory management.
Why not ship the game in a bigger cartridge and charge a little more?
L.A. Noire does that and it's fine by me.
This whole mess is Nintendo’s. Bottom line. They should have provided more internal memory to the Switch. And if that was not feasible then ship a memory card with the system. I keep hearing how big NBA 2k18 game file is but this is a full fledged game with all the bells and whistles the same As the other systems (minus the visuals). I have it downloaded to my Switch system and I like the game. And more games are going to be released in this manner weather you buy it digital or card game you’re going to require a memory card. Nintendo anticipated this and they are going to try and capitalize on the problem they created instead of fixing it.
@MsgBoardGamer Defintely you misread. SD cards readers cost less than micro SD card readers. Are you blind?
SD card is a more mature product: higher reading speeds, less cost/GB than micro SD cards.
@Drommajin I think that they will have to deliver the game in a 64GB card, since 32GB is cutting it too close. A 64Gb is prohibitively expensive (maybe 40 bucks, since a 32Gb cost upwards 20 dollars).
@maceng that's the price for us, consumers not for them to produce. The difference wouldn't surpass 10 dollars.
Nintendo's probably aware of how ridiculous 32gb is nowadays, especially after this! Watch them start shipping them w/64gb sometime soon. That's gonna succ for us who already have a Switch!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZ9-tZqaMag
Comparison of the Switch version with the other 2 systems. Safe to say they've done a good job.
@WiltonRoots I just scrolled to a random point in the comments because there were so many and liked yours.
Whatever. Stupid game size.
@NinROCK3T there won't be a new machine for a good while yet. It's not gonna be soon
@Drommajin because publishers are probably worried about shipping games with higher RRP. If NBA 2K18 was selling for $65+ people would not be happy.
@kobashi100 At least we would have the full game in our possession.
That's a high entry fee to the Uncanny Valley.
Count
Me
Out.
@MsgBoardGamer the mass consumer has no problem with switch 32GB storage. Sales of the machine prove that.
@MsgBoardGamer
Yeah there's not much danger to Nintendo from the current approach. They can always adjust costs later if the games struggle and support threatens to dry up.
The part of the equation I'd be interested in is what Nintendo's take is on the actual manufacture of the carts. Because that could be something where they forego profits and opt to break even to help publishers get their games released. They'd still make on licensing fees. They'd still get the considerable value that games like NBA bring in terms of selling the system (remember it was featured in the systems initial reveal nearly a year ago). They could increase that margin over time as manufacturing costs come down.
However as we'll never know them figures it's guesswork. It could be something they do now (though knowing Nintendo, I doubt it).
@ThanosReXXX
"so the bulk prices would at most be anywhere between $4 - $8 extra for them.
And they wouldn't even have to charge that to the customer to be able to still make a profit on the device itself"
That $4-8 could be their entire profit margin on the Switch. Multiply that by the 10 million they intend to sell this year and ker-ching!
This would be a buy on a 32gb cart. They're getting $0 from me by pulling this move.
@StuOhQ if it was $65 - $70 would you be happy to pay that or not?
@erv Thanks man....I only come here for the meltdowns. I'm rarely disappointed.
@kobashi100 $65 would be fine for a large game. Even $75 would be okay for a huge game that needed a 64GB cart. I was fully on board with the costly N64 carts back in the day.
That being said, a basketball game that takes up more space than a massive open world RPG speaks volumes. That's indicative of laziness.
If L.A. Noir is entirely on a cart, I will be happy paying the extra $10 for the Switch version.
@BlueOcean
I don't see how SD cards are 'much more expensive' than an external HDD. I recently got a 256gb card for $17 and a 1tb HDD is around $80, so for a single gb the SD was actually cheaper.
If you plan on buying digital (or retail for XBO/PS4) on any system then you'll need external storage. The 500gb that XBO/PS4 shipped with was nowhere near enough. 1tb should be standard
@StuOhQ I wish people would stop talking about Zelda file size and comparing it with other games.
It's not as simple as saying open world game is smaller so that means 2K or capcom are lazy etc etc.
Zelda has small amount of Audio and small amount of video cutscenes. Then let's talk about the textures. Not like nintendo have gone super high res. And that's me talking who thinks BOTW is one of the greatest games ever.
@CaPPa Where did you buy that card?
@MsgBoardGamer I wouldn't consider that a valid reason: literally EVERY company likes counting their pennies, so that's not something that's exclusive to Nintendo. On the other hand: they should also see to customer satisfaction, and this "uproar" is not just in this little corner here, it's world- and internet wide, so they should at the very least pick up on some of it.
For reference's sake: I'm a seasoned sales & marketing professional in the IT sector, and I know my numbers and what certain parts cost, and whether that's meant for workstations or consoles isn't really all that different.
What I proposed in earlier comments, is completely within the realm of possible options, so it really is peculiar, to say the least, as to why Nintendo chose, once again, to go with the lowest possible internal storage capacity. And then there's the second matter of why they don't provide for or strike deals with third parties to allow them to use bigger cartridges so that the internal storage will be spared from the need for extra mandatory downloads.
@electrolite77 Believe me: apart from that difference in price, they've already made a healthy profit on every Switch sold. That (for them) tiny extra investment towards future-proofing their console and offering more customer satisfaction wouldn't even put a single dent in their profit margin as a whole.
Which makes it all the more puzzling as to why they chose to take the route that they did.
Most people probably bought an sd card the same day they bought their switch. I know I did. Same way I had a hard drive hooked up to my Xbox the day i bought it. No big deal and nothing we haven't seen before.
@Drommajin Wrong. That's the price for publishers. You are thinking NAND memory or SD cards: Switch cards are very expensive. There was a NL article about it a week ago.
@MsgBoardGamer That's really stupid:
" So Nintendo will gladly make you pay more money for microSD cards".
How's so? Nintendo doesn't make neither micro SD or SD cards! Micro SD cards are more expensive than SD cards!!
"So why should a company that is seeking a profit just allow you to use cheaper cards? " Short answer: it doesn't cost them a penny. Second, by allowing customers to buy larger cards, cheaper, more people can buy more games from them.
Please, if you gonna spout nonsense, stop. You are embarrassing yourself.
I had so many 128Gb microSDXC card that it's pretty much common to me now. The 5gb save file is no big deal to me, by the time NBA 2K19 comes out, I'm pretty sure this game is going right back to the bargain bin anyways. It's a yearly release game and to me yearly release games will never stuck around.
@ThanosReXXX 32 GB isn't the lowest possible capacity. Nintendo could have released the Switch with 8 GB of internal storage, but that would have been ridiculous. Nintendo probably thought that 32 GB of internal storage was sufficient because most retail games wouldn't require installations.
By the way, If Square Enix can use a 32 GB game card for Dragon Quest Heroes I & II for Nintendo Switch, I don't see why other companies can't do the same for their games.
@ThanosReXXX
The only figures we have regarding the cost of the Switch show a manufacturing cost of $257 before packaging, distribution, retailers margins etc. Yes that's a few months ago but it's not likely to have shifted much yet. So no, I'm not convinced their margins on Switch are much at all.
Either way, we don't have conclusive figures on either their profit margins or what extra storage would cost them. Without that I'm not going to criticise them for protecting what margins they have as there could be a very good reason, financially, that they went with 32GB.
@electrolite77 I can't believe that cost. The Switch came out priced at 29,999, which was like 270 dollars at the moment. And believe, 13 dollars won't cut as profit for a retailer, specially when said retailer holds discounts of some sorts.
I wouldn't be surprised if the cost of a Switch is around 220, or that it has dropped to that amount soon after selling 2-3 million.
Also, tbh, I really don't mind much the aspect of the 32GB included memory, but the fact that they didn't go for SD cards or even USB flash drives (as slow as they are).
@ThanosReXXX Well said.
@electrolite77 40 - 80MM is peanuts. They sold 400MM worth of amiibos on their first year.
@SEM If 2K couldn't eat the cost of buying a larger cart they should've charged a few bucks or whatever the difference is for the game to cover it.
(I understand a few bucks adds up when it's times a million copies or whatever they plan to sell.)
But, oh wait, this is 2017 and we expect all games to cost the same price. So it's Nintendo's fault for not being a charity and letting publishers buy any size cart they want for the same price.
(not to say whether Nintendo is being fair with their prices to publishers, but many people suggest they should be "free")
In the SNES days, it was normal for carts to have different hardware and very different game prices to reflect that. Then we could accept that new games were as low as $40 (which was probably still more expensive than our current $60 prices, if you consider inflation) and as high as $80.
But those were the days when Square was awesome and made games worth those higher-end tags.
Well the game has managed to achieve a mostly negative rating on steam.
Seems to be a pure cashgrab, that forces you to use microtranscations, if you want to get anywhere in mycareer mode.
So it doesn't seem suprising that 2k cheaped out when it comes to the gamecards.
@MsgBoardGamer I know I'm on a Nintendo site, but my opinion is also based upon observations of other media and websites, so I'll stick to my point, thank you.
@NinNin In this day and age, and with the type of games and the assets they hold, 32GB actually IS the lowest possible capacity.
Any lower than that would be completely outrageous.
If the mandatory 5GB save file for 2K18 isn't true, then you really can't complain about optimization or bad compression for this game.
25-26GB for the game file size is actually really impressive for this kind of sport simulation game! The game is using 47GB storage on PS4, so this was actually a good Switch optimization job from the 2K developers!
The 5GB save data can properly happen, if you save a lot of replays and so on. And that is ok, as long as it's optional!
The real and only complain about 2K18, goes to the 2K management! Why didn't they go for a 32GB cartridge, where the whole game could fit nicely?!?
Releasing physical games, where you have to force customers to download a huge portion of the game afterwards, is just a really bad move. Especially when there exist other viable options, where you don't have to do that. I find it difficult to support this kind of practice!!!
Storage on the Switch is just very valuable, in comparison to other console's. I would gladly have spend 20$ more, if the whole game was on the cartridge, and I could save my valuable SD storage for something else!!!
@electrolite77 Switch will have been in manufacturing for well over a year now, and supply chains and production lines especially will already have had their first optimizations, cutting cost already, and obviously, those are six figure numbers, so yeah...
Also, the flash modules aren't the most costly component, so there's no reason at all to assume that this is where they needed to save money and go with the 32GB. Other components are far more expensive.
A bare bones, standalone 32GB flash module that can be integrated on a PCB doesn't have to cost any more than $5 at a purchasing price in bulk numbers. And as I previously explained, upgrading that to 64 or even 128GB wouldn't have cost them more than $8 extra.
@maceng Thanks.
@CaPPa That's not right. For the same price that you buy a portable external HDD you can buy a micro SD card with only 6.25% (256GB) of the capacity of a HDD (4TB). That's why SD is a much more expensive storage device as everybody knows. Also, you have to take into account that Switch games require a lot of space unlike 3DS games that are usually around 1GB each. NBA2K18 requires around 26GB. Doom and Wolfenstein won't be small either.
@Yorumi probably personal info to sell to advertisers
@KingMike The thing that (Nintendo) gamers whine so much: "Oh no, the Switch versions costs more than the Xbox One/PS4,! How they dare! Gonna wait for it to hit the bargain bin."
Nba game cutscenes are broken for most people on handheld mode. They go slower than the actual speech. Dock it and it works fine. Hopefully patched in the next few days
@maceng What? You are actually saying a 64Gb for Switch costs 40 bucks for devs and pubs? C'mon on, man... Nevertheless, I'm aware of the Switch tax and if I'm willing to pay for it so I can have the full game to myself and not a fraction of it.
@Drommajin There was a NL article stating that 32GB card costs upwards 20 bucks for dev and publishers (these carts are not being sold to the public). Being 16GB the standard, it is an educated guess that 64GB would cost at least double that.
For example, look at prices of micro SD cards: 128GB costs between 44 to 55 (high end), but a 256GB costs 130-160, more than double. Even based on this, a 64GB would cost 47 (at least, based on these figures).
@MsgBoardGamer Unbelievable since if it costs 257 to make, besides marketing, retailers share, distribution, and it's been sold at 270 in Japan, then, yes it is unbelievable.
@MsgBoardGamer There is no profit if it costs 257 to make! Do you think a retailer will take 4-5 bucks per console. Are you out of your mind? 257 + publicity (have to pay for all the ads, TV commercials, magazine, etc) + distribution + retailer's share + Nintendo's share > 270 bucks. Get it?!
I can agree that Nintendo could take a very small profit, 5- 10 dollars, but even then it will incur in a loss if it has to fix a small number of Switches.
@maceng Care to post the source, please?
@Drommajin Sure. Here is teh link for teh NL article:
https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2017/09/feature_exploring_the_switch_tax_and_why_nintendo_was_right_to_use_game_cards
The only thing I don't agree with is that 1GB, 2Gb and 4GB cards do exist. The should cost very close to a 8GB (which resembles the cost of a Blue Ray Disc).
As for the cost of micro SD cards, just go to Amazon and search for "microSD cards 128GB" and you are all set.
Just to be up front and honest, I have caved the hype train and the game does look beautiful in all the YouTube videos out there, I already had a physical copy on order, but I agree that it’s been a wonder to have multiple games ready to launch safely on the system.
The switch is fast becoming my go-to gaming system, I have been surviving solely- on PC for a long time now, having stepped away from consoles post PS3.
I believe that the developers look to have done a great job in bringing this game onto the switch, and I am in two minds on whether to cancel my pre-order because of how the storage is being handled with this title.
I think it’s a sad day for gaming when you can buy a PHYSICAL version of a game and it does not contain all the content on said medium. I think that Nintendo I have them set a bad precedent, but as a business I can understand why Nintendo halve made this call.
I am currently in the strange position of getting most my games PHYSICAL as they simply offer better value for money, which is a mad situation to be in.
I can get a game delivered to my door on day on release including delivery for a good amount LESS that it will cost on Nintendo's own E-shop, strange times.
I guess if maybe there was a portion of the game compressed on the PHYSICAL version and this had to be expanded onto SD storage I would take that, but me buying the PHYSICAL version and then having to go do download the rest, I call BS, GREED that's it.
The older I get the more I understand that this is often how the world works.
Additional a 5GB save file seems a little obscene to me, bigger than lot of my switch games that I have on the system.
I am currently already in possession of a 64GB SD card, but have a 128GB card on the way to be able to cope with my indulgences.
I am largely able to take the hit on this cost / apparently new status quo, but I feel sorry for the people who have been looking forward to this title, but now must rearrange their thinking, I know quite a few gamers who are without an SD card happily going the PHYSICAL route, I think that this choice is a disingenuous one.
I believe that issue is ultimately bad for gamers,
Ultimately, I guess we must wait and see what it is that people who buy the PHYSICAL version must download.
Happy Gaming All.
@MsgBoardGamer Of course not! Nintendo, to my best knowledge, has never take a loss (in the long term) in any console made by them,. I didn't say that! You must read more carefully what others post.
What I said is that the mentioned cost of 257 of the Switch itself, is not real.
@maceng I highly doubt those cost since in Brazil, where I live now, you can find 32Gb around U$ 10 and 64Gb around U$ 16 to 20. If I, the final consumer (with all those godammed brazilian taxes) get to pay that, there's something very, very wrong with they are all saying there, you see that?
I don't believe at all they have more costs to produce their games for the Switch but when we are talking MASS PRODUCTION it's only obvious that you won't have that kind of monstrous cost with a 64Gb card.
I hope you get what I'm writing.
So, at the end, I see that it's more expensive to make a game for the Switch than PS4/XONE and I'm willing to support that extra cost considering all the Switch has to offer.
Also, NBA requiring 5Gb just for a save data is ludicrous. It's just lazy to not use some kind of compressing data tech of some sort. I don't respect that at all and as much as I love basketball, I won't buy that game.
It's not the same thing as DOOM having you to DL the multiplayer. It's not everyone that enjoy MP (like me). I believe that (you having to DL the MP in games) should be the standard from now on. So, I totally approve that practice.
@Drommajin Here we go again...
The carts used by Nintendo are specialized carts, made exclusively for Nintendo to use on the Switch. There are not micro SD cards, nor mini SD cards, no SD cards. There are like the Vita: proprietary carts (the term cart is used since these "cards" hold game info, from cartridges). You CAN'T go to a shop and buy them because there are not sold to the public.
Also, the save files for the NBA game are established to be in the 75MB to 3GB range (according to several players on this same post). Still, it seems that yes, since for every game file it records some specialized footage of the career mode, it requires such a big file. I'm not one to argue: the publisher is not gonna change their approach that has worked for them in teh PS4 and the Xbox One just for the Switch (meaning, coming up with a different save scheme or having less features save. Read: Nintendo fans will riot!).
Just another fact: I thought that 500GB and 1TB HDD were enough for most complete gaming libraries oon the PS4 (my experience). They are not: my son keeps deleting games on his PS4 to make room for new ones on his 1TB PS4. What this means? That we must be prepared to embrace having several 200GB micro SD cards around (the most cost effective card at the moment) in order to have a decent library of games on the Switch.
@Drommajin Look, first, I don't have a Switch, but I'll probably get one in the near future. I have a Wii U and several (read: many) 3DS and a library of more than 200 titles combined to keep me busy for the next 4-6 months. But, I wouldn't mind buying a 200 or 256GB card along with my Switch: as soon as I got my New Nintendo 3DS, I bought a 32GB card (which is filling quite rapidly). I get Nintendo going with a 32GB internal memory to keep costs down (but, in my mind it should have been 64GB given my experience with my Wii U, which has a 500Gb HD attached to it).
I even get Nintendo not having a HD solution ready for the Switch: it would have looked really bad for a console-on-the go. What really baffles me is Nintendo embracing micro SD cards instead of normal SD cards, which cost 40-60% less and come in larger capacities. They made a choice that hurts them and consumers alike in the short run. I don't think a 512GB micro SD card will come out in the following 8 months and already 512Gb SD cards are not uncommon and a 1TB SD card was unveiled a year ago.
@JHDK what’s your friend code? WNt to play nba 2k18 online
Feel free to Add me!!!!!!! 2298-1511-2425
@Jalmcd Just sent a friend request. I'm down to play! My last home console was the 360 (I've been all 3ds for the past few years) so I've learned that I suck at 2k. I'll get better with some practice.
@maceng
I agree in that I suspect the cost of the Switch is lower, but to counteract that I think the cost of packaging and distribution, pls retailers margins is a lot higher than $40. Either way there isn't much margin there.
Say we go with the low estimate of $40 million to increase the storage without charging the customer more. That is not peanuts by any stretch of the imagination. Their projected operating profits this year are $585 million. So that 'peanuts' is 7% of their entire annual profit they'd have to give up for what? To appease early adopters and solve an issue with two games. It's not like that extra 32GB would see them sell any more systems as they're struggling to make enough as it is.
They will almost certainly have bigger profit margins as the Switch sells and costs come down but these were decisions taken before launch. Decisions taken in the shadow of a generation that saw their handheld Console sales drop from the previous generation, their home Console tank completely, their first losses in years and directors taking pay cuts to appease investors. Their innate conservatism is irritating and costs them at times, but I can understand them erring on the side of caution on this issue and protecting their profits.
@electrolite77 As I wrote before, the internal 32GB is not a problem. Only people buying carts (and selling their games afterwards) could be expected to find 32GB reasonable, or even 64GB. Me, I love my 3DS because: a) I don't sell my games, b) love portable, so I wanna have as many games on the go. So, I always buy a bigger card for my 3DS (first for my plain vanilla 3DSXL, and then for my Pikachu New Nintendo 3DS XL). I don't mind. The issue is I didn't see the need for Nintendo to go with the most expensive, less convenient format: micro SD instead of plain SD cards. That's is my mind grip. Also, this is a turning point for the Switch (and Nintendo as a whole), so I think its a bad idea to not play nice with AAA developers: if Nintendo scares them off now, it will be the Wii U debacle all over again.
I'm really glad, tho, when I read comments from gamers that they already download the game and don't mind using the micro SD card, but it makes me sad when there are also several gamers deciding on not buying the game or waiting for it to hit the "bargain bin", or blaming the developer for not going with a bigger (and very expensive) cart in the first place.
@ThanosReXXX This game is an exception. So far, this is the only game that requires a microSD card, right? If you don't buy this game and buy only retail games and indie games, 32 GB is enough.
We'll see if this will become a trend. But for now it's jumping to conclusions to conclude that 32 GB of internal storage is too low for most people. I don't think most Switch owners will buy this game anyway. Also, if this indeed became a trend and most of the major third-party games required a microSD card, having 64 GB of internal storage wouldn't help much. It would only be enough for one or two big games.
@MsgBoardGamer Don't get me wrong, I also expect people to just bite the bullet and kinda grudgingly except it in the end, but that doesn't mean that this buzz about it will stop or won't pick up again with every next title that will force people to do this.
I don't see people continuing to accept having to buy micro SD's for almost every friggin' third party game they want to play on the Switch. It would mean having to collect almost as many SD cards as games, unless prices of them will start dropping much faster than they are doing now, so we can buy larger capacity ones without having to tear off a limb to be able to pay for them...
@NinNin True, it's only this game so far, and from what I've read from another user on here, the 5GB isn't even correct, so it may all be a lot of panic over nothing at all, but if it DOES become a trend, then it's definitely going to be a bad one.
And yes, 64GB also isn't that much more compared to the sizes that third party games have, but it's still twice the amount that the Switch has now, it would have cost Nintendo next to nothing extra, and filling it up (too) quick would really only be a problem for digital only users.
And I was also combining my suggestion of bigger internal storage with bigger game cards, so that combined, should take care of a whole lot of these things, which should basically be non-issues in the first place, but Nintendo is charging the third parties too much for their measly 8GB game cards, and third parties will obviously not jump through too many hoops to satisfy the customer, instead going for the easiest solution which is essentially incomplete games on the card and many GB's of extra downloads...
@maceng
Yeah I don't know why they went for Micro SD. Is it literally just the size of the reader?
https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Nintendo+Switch+Teardown/78263
Just as likely they got a job lot of cheap Micro SD readers.
And yeah, my worry is Nintendo fans being given an easy excuse not to buy the game. But if it wasn't this, it's be some other excuse for not buying third-party games..
@ThanosReXXX Well Doom is also said to require a micro SD card, as well as L.A. Noire. Even if the don't, the won't fit on a traditional cart (more than 16GB).
@electrolite77 That's correct. The Nintendo Switch is gonna be a gaming console that gamers will have to spend lots and lots. Upward 1,000 for a basic setup of console, a pro controller, extra joycons, 1-2 200GB micro SD cards (just to be in parity with other consoles that sport a 500GB HD), carrying case and a better stand.
I think Nintendo will alienate gamers looking to have a portable NBA 2k, or Madden, or FIFA 14 machine.
@MsgBoardGamer I f*** spent my money as I see fit. If you haven't notice in my pic, I have money to spare. More than 40 3DS, incluidng a Princess Peach 3DS taht cost me 1,000 euros, more than 150 physical 3DS games and hundreds and hundreds of DS, Wii, Wii U, Ps3, PS4 games. Are you f*** kidding me?!
Still, I have a 1TB PS4 that cost me 250 for my kid, bought 4 pro controllers for 150, and is all I need. Because Nintendo makes a bad decision doesn't mean I have to bend over and take it, like you.
@MsgBoardGamer Man, the issue is that you are so dense and thick. It is a matter of upbringing and principles, you can't never understand.
Feel genuinely sorry for you.
@maceng "Well Doom is also said to require a micro SD card, as well as L.A. Noire."
It hasn't been confirmed yet.
"The Nintendo Switch is gonna be a gaming console that gamers will have to spend lots and lots. Upward 1,000 for a basic setup of console, a pro controller, extra joycons, 1-2 200GB micro SD cards"
A Switch Pro controller is about $70, a pair of Joy-Con controllers is about $80, a 200 GB microSD card is about $80. The total including the console is about $530. I don't think a basic setup requires a Switch Pro controller and extra Joy-Con controllers. Also, I highly doubt that most Switch owners will need a 200 GB microSD card. A 64 GB or 128 GB microSD card should be enough for most people. You can buy a 128 GB microSD card for less than $50.
Not every Switch game requires an installation, so the amount of required storage space is less than those of other consoles.
@maceng
I think you're way over the top with that 1000 figure. You don't need parity with a PS4 HDD for example. Not even close.
Any Console you buy needs a couple of extras. That's unavoidable. And a portable offering Console quality NBA, FIFA etc. is a premium product. But even accepting that statement, somebody wanting to play a bit of NBA on their desk at work needs a Switch (£280), game (£45), a 32GB Micro SD (£12), and a case (£7). Under £350 and you're done. (Another £45 if you want FIFA as well). (As a bonus, buy a Switch from Argos and they'll sell you a Hori Pro Controller for £23 if you don't want to use the Joycons).
@maceng I know, but a handful of games does not necessarily have to signify a trend. It probably will, though, because if one developer or more goes that route, more will inevitably follow, but to me it is definitely a sign of weakness and/or convenience, and that's both on Nintendo and the third parties.
What they SHOULD be doing, is cater to the specific audience, by sacrificing part of their profit (well, that part is only for Nintendo) and striking deals to be able to offer complete games to the customer. Which, after all, should be the whole benefit of using cartridges in the first place.
A tiny disadvantage could in that case be getting games later than the other platforms, but that is happening right now already, so that shouldn't be too much of an issue.
@MsgBoardGamer I'm no wishful thinker: in general, I just look at what could be possible, both financially and structurally. It's what I've done for almost two decades in my job as sales & marketing manager as well, so that's the point of view I mostly use.
And what people get their Switch for is their business, but the slowly growing number of bigger third party titles do show that there is intent and apparently a market for these developers/publishers to bring their games to a Nintendo console once again, whether or not these are somewhat older titles or not. It's still triple A third party support, no matter which way you look at it.
And it's WAY too soon to use statements like "Nintendo just finished producing their worst-selling console in history." and such. And current signs actually point to the complete opposite, so I think that's jumping the gun by a mile or more...
Of course they know their target market, and of course they know there's no point in competing with Sony/Microsoft/PCs for the third-party AAA market, but the nuance there is that they know that there is no point in competing directly, but they're also not doing that, so no argument there and there's also no problem to be seen in that. It's just common business sense, nothing more.
And so far, it seems to pay off and early projections only show results going upwards, not downwards or even leveling off, so they're probably on to something with this system.
And yeah, they make strange decisions every now and then, or at least: it SEEMS they make strange decisions. In my view, and I've worked with Asian people several times in my career, it's just their way of thinking and doing, so it's only strange for those not familiar with those rules, traditions or ways of thinking.
With which I mean to say that people are often looking at them with a purely Western view, and that is regularly where all these misunderstandings come from: I assure you that to them, it all makes perfect sense, and as long as it delivers for them, they will keep doing it.
At least they are a company that still dares to take a risk and has the capacity to renew or even change the industry they're in, something which is useful and healthy for the business, and also something that should be welcomed by one and all, and not just by the people in the industry themselves.
Both Microsoft and Sony see this, and their words and statements concerning this very topic are definitely not always just a sales pitch to look good for the press or other game related media. It's genuine respect and admiration in equal quantities.
To find out if it really is as grim as you seem to think, we need to wait a couple of years so we can look back and then, and ONLY then can we use phrases or statements like "worst-selling product" and such...
@ThanosReXXX "What they SHOULD be doing, is cater to the specific audience, by sacrificing part of their profit (well, that part is only for Nintendo)"
Why does Nintendo have to be the only one to sacrifice?
"and striking deals to be able to offer complete games to the customer."
I don't think Nintendo should do that. If Nintendo did that, a lot of companies would request money from Nintendo in exchange for releasing full games on game cards. It would be unfair to companies that didn't request money. I don't think that would end well.
Consumers can decide which games they will support. If games that require a microSD card don't sell well compared to similar games that don't require a microSD card, more companies will probably use higher capacity game cards.
@ThanosReXXX I agree with you in most points, but I'm tired, to some degree, to receive games later than the other two. Publishers need to put Nintendo developing in their agenda, but specially Nintendo needs to do some more courting. I said it in another post, but could you imagine people playing FIFA together on the train, or a picnic or in a cafeteria, on a handheld device made by Nintendo? That's all I want: Nintendo to be recognized as the go-to platform for AAA titles, but Nintendo needs to do its homework even more earnestly.
@NinNin The largest card at the moment is 32GB. Many current games won't fit on it, and a 32GB sets back a publisher more than 20 bucks. It won't happen since its more than their usual profit.
@ThanosReXXX Just got my inbox down from 550 to 498, so yeah it's probably lost in there somewhere. Though I've read most of them form you, the other 498 emails are from people I don't know, which 9 out of 10 times tell me to stop being a troll and leave. But I don't want to delete them all b/c you can never tell which is the good one.
And coffee is actually too strong for me these days. I'm going to a doctor on Thursday for my once per decade check up. I may have waited too long on this one.
@maceng Square Enix uses a 32 GB card for Dragon Quest Heroes I & II for Nintendo Switch. The $20 thing is just a rumor.
@NinNin What do you think that Microsoft and Sony do, to get those games? And the "sacrifice" is a calculated risk, a business investment to future-proof things, so that they can create an environment in which the investment of offering third parties the right size cartridges they need, will evolve into more sales because people will be happier to receive complete games on cartridges instead of still having to download almost half of it to get it to work properly... In the end, all parties will benefit from that. It's basically sales & marketing 101.
And you may not think that Nintendo should do that, but it makes perfect business sense. And it would more than likely end VERY well, like I already explained in the beginning of this comment.
And if consumers decide which games they will support, it might send the wrong message, like some other smart people in this thread already stated. For example: not buying a game because it has such a huge percentage of mandatory downloads might very well be a signal for the developer that apparently, their type of game isn't wanted by Switch owners.
They certainly won't come to the conclusion that they'd need a bigger cartridge, because that would cost them even more, so that's probably not going to happen, so then the risk will arise that this party will stop supporting the Switch, and there are numerous other negatives that can come from that, so no, that's not a good thing at all...
@maceng Well, I agree with you too, but I was just proposing the lesser of two evils: it is far less worse to receive games a bit later, say one or two months max, and have them be 100% complete on the cartridge, than not receiving games at all, or receiving games that will all continue to have huge downloads, something that basically completely nullifies the benefits of using a supposed plug and play (and closed) system like cartridges.
@rjejr 498? What happened with the 300? Are you getting that many each week? Phew... guess I'm kinda lucky then, to still be able to manage my inbox with relative ease...
I'll keep my fingers crossed for you concerning your check up, but you'll probably get through it relatively unscathed. Angry old men like you generally live the longest, albeit with the odd pains and little discomforts...
@MsgBoardGamer "I was talking about the Wii U"
Ah, okay. My bad then, but in all honesty, that wasn't really clear, and the topic at hand was of course the Switch, so you can see how I made that assumption...
But agreed on the whole Wii U debacle and it better not being repeated now, but signs are relatively positive this time around, and it is a clear sign of Nintendo picking itself up and taking control again in one form or another.
Where it's ultimately gonna go, is anyone's guess, but there aren't any red warning signs yet, and I honestly don't expect them to come any time soon either, unless there's somehow going to be a HUGE gap in the catalog after the release of Mario Odyssey, but that too is something that I don't see happening.
Time will tell, of course, and it's true that the Wii U isn't a high bar to jump over, but the Switch is almost there already, and it still has a few years to go, for it to reach the life cycle of the Wii U, so numbers will more than likely at least triple/quadruple before that time has come...
@ThanosReXXX Thanks I'll let ya know how it goes. And I was at 300 for a long time - leftovers form summer 2016 I think - but the ND did me in.
@rjejr Ah, yes, the Direct. I'm still completely baffled that some people on here thought it was a bad one. I thought it was actually quite entertaining, with some nice surprises as well.
As for finding the right comments: why not just filter them by user name? I haven't replied to you that much in the last few months, so it should only be around 20 - 30 max.
@ThanosReXXX "filter them by user name"
Well I skim over them all and read the ones from you, Jax, Gonru, Spoony and a few other long time people I know, the rest I dont' recognize, and 6 times out of 10 those are bad. Then I get in a bad mood, I go off, things escalate, it's not worth it. I know it's rude not to reply, but it's not a law. Actually I have no idea what, if any, the NL website guidelines are on that.
@rjejr Oh, don't get me wrong, wasn't insulted by you not replying, it was more an idea in my mind that the severity of the message might have rendered you kinda speechless. It wasn't a pleasant message, but I've come to find that sometimes, with rather personal things, that it's easier to share with online friends than with real life ones, especially when things need to get off one's chest...
Just in case you did miss it, I'll send you a reminder later today, but I'll link that in the original thread, because I don't feel the need to put that here in this one.
@ThanosReXXX "And if consumers decide which games they will support, it might send the wrong message, like some other smart people in this thread already stated. For example: not buying a game because it has such a huge percentage of mandatory downloads might very well be a signal for the developer that apparently, their type of game isn't wanted by Switch owners."
If sports games that don't require a microSD card sell well, and sports games that require a microSD card don't sell well, I don't think it's too hard to figure out the reason.
Regarding sending the wrong message, buying the game can send the wrong message as well. It may be interpreted as that Switch owners have no problem with games that requires a microSD card.
@NinNin Well, you've got your thoughts about it, and I've got mine, and I rather go with my own, since these are based upon what my experience tells me. It really is a sales & marketing thing, and that's my profession, so if nothing is done, I wouldn't be surprised if things turn out more or less exactly like I said.
That is, unless Nintendo decides to act, of course, then this point will be moot.
But the thing with gamers not buying games for whatever reason, is already happening now: you even see it on here regularly, if some people decide that there is something wrong with a game or something is missing, or they simply don't like a company's effort.
And if you look at the bigger picture, it doesn't matter for what reason you're not buying that game: the publishers will always come to their own conclusions and maybe not 9 out of 10, but at least 7 out of 10 will subsequently withdraw their support.
People always scream for more third party support, but when it finally arrives, they always seem to have a knack for finding something wrong with it, to validate their excuse not to buy it.
It's idiotic and completely counter-productive where it concerns securing more third party support for the Switch, and that's a damn shame...
@SLIGEACH_EIRE I hadn´t seen your comment before.
I sometimes do really wonder whether you actually own a Wii U or not.
This is a photo I took from my Data Management menu from my Wii U. The Smash Bros. game itself reports 11 GB, while the update data a little bit more than 2 GB:
https://image.ibb.co/eEHw9Q/21942426_848142635355313_773244789_n.jpg
Not sure why should I trust the Nintendo page and a 3 year old article when my own digital copy is working fine in my HDD with those sizes. I must be making some voodoo here.
@Olmectron The base game is 15.6GB...
http://nintendonews.com/news/wii-u/super-smash-bros-wii-u-download-size/
...and the DLC in total is 3.1GB dependent on what you'd downloaded.
"File size: 60MB to 3.1GB (Wii U) / 442MB or 3 538 blocks (Nintendo 3DS, Europe, North America), 325MB or 2 600 blocks (Nintendo 3DS, Japan)"
http://www.perfectly-nintendo.com/super-smash-bros-wii-u-super-smash-bros-nintendo-3ds-software-updates/
Of course I own a Wii U, I play it all the time. People know my Miiverse profile, I've posted screenshots before. I'm playing The Minish Cap this weekend, I might even post a photo if you're lucky.
Edit: Just to prove a point.
https://miiverse.nintendo.net/posts/AYMHAAADAAADV44gczz_7Q
@SLIGEACH_EIRE I read those articles from 2014 when you first linked them.
But then my Wii U Data Management info is wrong. The game reports less thanks you say in my console. I shared a photo.
https://image.ibb.co/eEHw9Q/21942426_848142635355313_773244789_n.jpg
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