Let's be real, Nintendo's online service hasn't always been the best. While it's always worked, it has not always necessarily been a completely stable experience across every game. While we won't name any specific titles, you probably already know the ones that haven't run quite as smoothly as others.
With this in mind, it seems Nintendo's online services are finally getting an update, of sorts - with dataminer OatmealDome (via thomasnet_mc) detailing how Nintendo will be replacing its multiplayer server system, which has been around since the Wii U and 3DS era. It's doing this by swapping from 'NEX' to a newer system called 'NPLN'.
The recent Monster Hunter Rise demo was the "first game" to make use of NPLN, and was apparently a great way to test out how it worked under pressure.
OatmealDome further explains how 'NEX' was originally created by a company called Quazal (back then, the tech was known as Rendez-Vous), Ubisoft bought it out in 2010, and this followed with Nintendo licensing and renaming it to 'NEX'.
Nintendo has been using 'NEX' for about 10 years now, but the tech itself is about 20 years old and the "Splatoon 2 version has an unused function to check to see if it's running on Windows 98".
So, will this improve things? According to OatmealDome, probably not. The dataminer goes on to state how Nintendo's "primary goal" at the moment is to make the transition "as seamless as possible" to ensure users won't even notice.
"Once done, then they can add new things or improve existing ones."
If we hear any updates about all of this, we'll be sure to let you know.
[source twitter.com, via nintendoeverything.com]
Comments 86
good. now maybe they can fix the lag in some games. I think this will greatly improve the online service now.
It'd be nice is Smash ended up playable online. Not seamless or perfect, just playable
What outdated technology exists that is also cheap that Nintendo can buy and call it new?
@Hobbitgamer OK, SOMETHING is happening.
Finally the hamster gets his well deserved rest, you've earned it my friend.
....I never went online with Rise's demo, so...yeah. Is it still that crappy PtP thing or whatever? Or are the games finally getting their own servers and all that? >.>
"to make the transition "as seamless as possible" to ensure users won't even notice." I'm gonna guess it's still going to be crappy, then. lol
"So, will it improve things? According to OatmealDome, probably not"
That made me laugh. Up until that part I was assuming things were about to get better.
I just want to be able to send a pre-written Nintendo approved message to an already added friend when they go online on a game I'm playing (like Animal Crossing or Pokémon) and say "hey I'm online let's play in a family-friendly Mario-approved manner" instead of having to deal with an entirely different outside system to message them, and then exchange goddamn codes or whatever, please?
Hopefully 3D World can get a little help. Super Mario Maker 2 lags in 2 player mode, and Nintendo's expecting 3D Mario to work across the internet? Seems unlikely with existing infrastructure.
NEX is an API for matchmaking, online authentication, and data storage. As far as I understand, switching from NEX to NPLN shouldn't impact the actual quality of online gameplay.
Before you start messing with new things, it's best to fix what you have. It makes sense that they want to switch to a new system first, then later on, assuming it all goes well, they can potentially add new things.
It's the internet and people are always ready to jump on the next hate-train and I agree, Nintendo's online offerings utterly pale in comparison to everyone else, but at the same time, it's not nearly the mess people often claim it is either.
When Nintendo "recommended" players to buy an adapter to be able to enjoy Smash online properly, they knew, 2 years ago, their server was worse than outdated, thus useless for the purpose in question. Now, 2 years later, they start things in order to provide a service that will "not" be improved. I don't know what to say about it
If it actually makes Smash Bros. Ultimate playable, then I'm all for it. That game is a complete sh*tshow as soon as you dare even think about playing online.
Good hopefully online play for the upcoming Super Smash Bros. Ultimate 2 will be better improve.
It’s Nintendo...online will forever be like it’s 2008, lol
Hah! I'm surprised that they're even bothering to upgrade from their current infrastructure as millions upon millions of adoring customers have been happily throwing money at their NSO "service" when it is now apparent that it is the very same "service" that was previously provided at no extra charge.
NES/SNES ROM access and cloud saves could have been their own thing, or hell, allow us to back-up our save data manually (like the Wii days) rather than holding it hostage behind a paid "service", as the only incentive to cough up the goods (as I don't play online) is to preserve my BotW/Smash/AC:NH save data and the like.
And it sounds like Nintendo are only upgrading out of necessity, 'cause if the customers ain't broke, why fix it?
It’s not that Nintendo’s online hasn’t always been the best, it’s that it’s consistently been the worst. I get major mid-noughties Steam vibes from any attempt to play Switch online.
It's about damn time they made some changes. They can't keep relying on just improving the netcode of games. Even though it worked in Splatoon 2, it failed horribly in Super Smash Bros. Ultimate. Say goodbye to your complaints about NSO!
On the side note, there's a pretty good reason why you shouldn't call their service "Nintendo Online" and it's simply because you'd be saying "NO" all the time.
I knew somthing was up with MHR demo I was really thinking it was going to lag but didn't Now I see why.
Finally all that Switch online money going towards, you know, improving their online service.
My number one issue with NSO from Day 1 is that Nintendo was clearly failing to upgrade their actual online to justify adding a cost to it. People didn't buy NSO for the free games, they just wanted to play their Nintendo games online. I'll still argue forever that they could just sell the games as a 20 dollar a year service and keep the online gaming paywall out of the whole thing. As long as they keep adding games, its not a bad service on its own, and I'd still pay for it.
Regardless, thank god they're upgrading things. Even free, but especially paid, there was no excuse for some of these online issues.
It won't fix anything, it's simply the back-end. There is hilarious lack of understanding from everyone I know and a lot of people online of how most nintendo titles work online.
Smash is peer to peer, so is mario kart. When a match starts your consoles directly connect to one-another, then when the match ends, you go back to nintendo's online manager servers.
The lag in games comes from antiquated netcode which these companies refuse to replace with the likes of GGPO because they didn't make it themselves in-house, they have some sort of superiority complex.
Lag in Mario Maker 2 is because the netcode is lock-stepped, every player has to communicate what the next game frame is like before any action can continue and its amazingly bad.
Look forward to paying continuing to pay $25 a year or whatever for the privilege of frustrating online experiences.
source: bachelors in CS. Work in games engineering.
OS level communication would be good too.
@NathanTheAsian its because they barely even 'fixed' the netcode in smash bros. this 'upgrade' will not improve anything, the netcode is 100% at fault.
@kkslider5552000 I have NSO online for the SNES/NES games and the backups. I generally don’t play games that require NSO online. I did appreciate the few games that have been free for a week to confirm I have zero interest in them.
The $35/yr I now pay so my kids and parents can play animal crossing together has been worth it. Especially this last year and I have few complaints. I spend more on soda (almost a single soda these days) in a month than the $3/mo. I pay for it.
So... Basically a stability update in Nintendo's servers...?
@Draco9898 Your comment should be at the top as the first one people see, since the vast majority have no idea how it actually works.
A lot games, including ones on all other platforms, are also running peer-to-peer. People seem to think every single game has it's own dedicated online server for gameplay.
Just amazing that they're still so far behind on online! I mean, by this point, it's one of the defining weaknesses of whatever Nintendo happens to be doing. You'd think they'd want to focus on fixing that, but every new gen of hardware proves to be just about as disappointing as the last.
I have to ask, does anyone know how this will affect online play in 3DS games?
If Mario Maker 2 could work online I'd be the happiest person in the world. I doubt those new servers will make much of a difference, but one can hope
@Joeynator3000 As a developer, I can pretty unequivocally say that's code for:
"We've perfectly replicated the old systems functionality in the new one to avoid causing bugs during the transition, and we wont start working on improvements until everything is transitioned."
Which, for a live system, is the best way to do it.
So, basically, we're losing Wii U and 3ds online soon?
This article almost gave me a heart attack, I thought they were shutting down the Wii U and 3DS online multiplayer.
You know, I think people would want to notice that the servers had changed. It might imply that they're useable now.
Something something kept you waiting huh.
Can't wait to play online without crashing every 0.34589096322 milliseconds.
Not the flashiest headline, but who knows, maybe it heralds something important (perhaps more upcoming titles that would utilize online multiplayer or functionality, such as Mario Kart 9). Not that I would be
nearly that optimistic. Whatever the case, Nintendo's track record with online to date has been absolutely dismal, and it's saying something when you have to struggle to justify a subscription to Switch Online at $19.99 a year. Online multiplayer is atrocious, fans have to get in an uproar to get Nintendo to bother incorporating its cloud saves into major first-party releases such as BotW or Animal Crossing, and the trickle of NES and SNES games shows blatant lack of interest. Kind of like Nintendo's entire history with online.
I'm confused. So Wii U and 3DS gets new servers, but Switch will continue to stumble along with P2P?
Wulff Den has explained in some reasons why: also why other tech wouldn’t really work for Smash, as an example.
https://youtu.be/o7Wfqv85ero
Mario Kart 8 is the best online Nintendo experience IMHO. It's like they anticipated 30 million sales. It's not perfection but nice and smooth when it works. But other games are simply exceeding their server expectations. Going forward they need servers to accommodate 100 million players any popular online game. The better it is the more players will play period.
It's nice to see them investing bells in infrastructure for online gaming, although it doesn't quite sound the revolution we are all hoping for (but I am in no way going to try to sound like I know what I'm talking about.) Still, it's the right kind of noise.
Win 9x baseline..... Wow i knew it felt familiar....
Owned by Ubisoft... That's new info though. Nintendo had been paying ubisoft for their matchmaking licensing for a decade? Wow. Then again Sony pays Microsoft for their entire online experience now, so stranger things have happened...
Nintendo will finally be able to use the phone and go online at the same time!
Finally!!! It's about time! Now can we add N64, GameCube, and Gameboy Games to Nintendo Switch Online Please and Thank you!!
@Kieroni I find Smash playable 95% of the time. Mario Maker, however, is just ludicrous. Even Dreamcast online gaming via a 56k modem ran better.
And where can I order the Windows 98 version of Splatoon 2? 😉
So, we're past 4 years now... the question is, how many more years of Switch making Nintendo billions in profit before they spend some of it investing in their online services?
I cannot understand how no-one at Nintendo has realised that the eShop is making them a huge sum of money in an entirely unoptimised state. Spend a little money sorting out the eShop and optimising it and it will be better for everybody.
Growing very tired of Nintendo plodding along with unacceptably bad online features, all the while they have literally billions pouring into their coffers.
They could literally employ someone for £20k a year to just work on eShop recommendations. That person would more than earn their keep and it would improve the eShop service twofold overnight.
@michellelynn0976 if you read the article it says likely it won't improve things lol.
This is merely a cost cutting change - Nintendo actually need to upgrade their servers. Move to Microsoft servers and join Gamepass.
I hope this fixes Smash Bros online. Every "for fun" match I join on Wii U or switch is unplayable.
I never noticed any problems when I played MK7, Heroes of Ruin, Splatoon, MK8 online. I also played a limited amount of Smash online and never had problems. I guess my total online time is probably only around 90 hours on Nintendo service, so maybe that's why.
What would happen if Spla2n WAS running on Windows 98?!?
Interesting how rise used the new server and yet I still had games where players would DC?
I wonder if Nintendo will finally start using that "Online Invites" feature they added to the Switch but have never used at all in any of their games...
Please is there anyone here FROM THE US that plays Smash Ultimate online? On the average, how long does it take you to find people to play against in Quickplay and secondly, in Public Arena are there usually lots of rooms to join whenever you search for them or is it often empty?
@Draco9898
I mean, that was what I initially thought. If you're telling me that, then alright.
@VenomousAlbino All Smash Bros have been a sh$t show online. Brawl was the worst offender.
ah ha ha ha... couldn't try the online on the demo, my subscription expired just before, thought it was interesting the demo didn't bypass the online subscription like free to play games.
Exciting. Really hope this means we get actually good servers this time.
@liveswired and wrong. It is a faster architecture and if you read it, it says it will give more flexibility.
I have been expecting this based on some internal chatter from friends. There is a much bigger project coming that will need the server update and long term they have a lot of other plans.
@kkslider5552000 admittedly it could be that charging for NSO is what separately allowed them to not only afford to finally replace their 20 years old tech... but also see there was demand for it.
Nintendo after all only got where they are by avoiding "unnecessary" expenses and overhauling online tech only to find no demand could very much has been this. After all, unlike other console manufacturers, almost none of Nintendo's console were ever sold at a loss with the WiiU being almost the only exception
I've had more crashes and disconnects on PS3, than i have ever had on wii, Ds(yes it had online!), Wii U and 3DS. At the moment even xbox is tripping out an awful lot. Who knew traffic would cause so many network problems....
@liveswired NPLN has faster speeds and better architecture, so wrong. It is a faster service that can render 3D models and textures quicker and yes, cheaper.
https://finalweapon.net/2021/02/01/nintendo-is-replacing-nex-their-multiplayer-server-system-after-18-years-of-use-introduces-new-npln-system-with-monster-hunter-rise-being-the-first-game-to-support-it/
So this will still not fix SSB Ultimate's online. Lmao.
I mean, slow motion online play in SSB was already weird on the Wii, a console that had servers with 32 players shooting each other on one map in Medal of Honor Heroes 2 without a hint of lag, a console which supported countless of Call of Duty's and other big online games with no lag spikes whatsoever. But SSB had to perform like some crippled kid, constantly slowing down and lagging like hell, to the point where the gameplay was basically taken away and the entire game became pointless? It was already strange a decade and a half ago.
This became even more breathtakingly ridiculous and alien on the Wii U, where you'd expect this crap to be over permanently, but it returned despite even the heaviest of multiplats at the time (Watch Dogs, Most Wanted etc.) running online multiplayer without any issue.
And now, on the Switch, 15 freaking years later, we STILL see the same BS. And we're STILL gonna see it after this new server system's put in place. There's just no words for how pathetic Nintendo is in this regard. It's basically just disrespectful towards us as well. It's too pathetic to be put into words. It's so ridiculously bad and pathetic and weird and illogical and unnecessary.
While MH Rise is gonna run just fine on a way more demanding engine doing way more demanding things, SSB is gonna remain a slow-mo game online.
So. Freaking. Bad. Nintendo. So PATHETIC. What the hell man. Lmao
If mario maker 2's online play isn't fixed as a result i do not care
You know, as I grew up in the 90s I was convinced every Japanese company would be on the cutting edge of everything in their field, such was the prominence of their electronics back then. Now I'm older I get to see actually they're still using a SYSTEM from the 90s, practically, so that's dispelled that illusion pretty quick.
About the only games I online with Nintendo are MK8 and Tennis Aces, which only have lag when the other sides have poor connection, so as long as those work the same or better (quicker matchmaking would be nice) that'll do. I don't expect a lot from it so my expectations are easy to meet, yet if they don't I'll just chalk it up to "classic Nintendo".
Probably worth bearing in mind that their countrymen over at Sony don't always get it right either. Sony PS Store has been a mess forever, and often the prices and buy button don't appear on a laptop via their PSN website regardless of browser used, so you have to load it on say a PS4 and it takes forever. Rule one of capitalism :- never put any barriers between you and the customer's money. Microsoft knows this - using the store on Xbox One X is basically seamless and makes it way too easy to buy and download armfuls of games any way you choose (smartphone app/console/browser) which is the way it should be. Using the Sony and Nintendo stores is a chore, rather than being an exciting trip to a digital candy store like it should be.
Okay, I've rambled enough. Thanks for reading all of it, one person that did. 📖😂
@Rika_Yoshitake this made me laugh out loud, thanks! 😄
@Draco9898 I’m not too well-versed in how online play works (all I know is that all, if not most, of the games that use NSO are PTP, and that they all suck, just for the record), but you said that Mario Kart and Smash use the same, if not similar. Then why is Mario Kart’s online so good, yet Smash’s is so bad at times? I don’t think I’ve played a single round in Mario Kart where it lagged, let alone to the extent that Smash does, and that’s also far less often than Smash. Same goes for Splatoon 2.
@Clyde_Radcliffe Now that I have decent internet, Splatoon ran great during the last Splatfest, but even playing with my brother, who has great internet, it's a stuttery mess
@Caryslan I wouldn't be surprised if they took the opportunity to bump it off, unfortunately. Usually, they keep the multiplayer up for a few extra years, but this would make a good excuse to kill those servers all at once.
@BeastMode44 This is one of the problems of people's perceptions of "good" and "bad" online play.
First of all, it is different for everyone when it is peer-to-peer because it is completely reliant on the home network of two players (and the hardware of the console). So, yes, dedicated servers can help your side of the equation if the other player has a two-can connection to the Internet.
The biggest issue, however, is that each game deals with net code very differently based on how player interactions affect the game.
You can play a FPS game on PC and feel like everything is just great compared to horrible Smash, but so much of what you are seeing on your screen in an FPS is predictive in order to smooth it out, and it is hard to really pinpoint if your shot missed or not in all the fast action. Though there are signs when other players jump about or stop moving — you feel better about it because at least your control is consistent.
Now in something like Smash which requires frame-accurate response in a fight and the clarity of the gameplay is pixel-perfect, every hiccup feels like a shockwave and impedes the actual gameplay you feel.
Mario Kart is more like an FPS. Your direct interaction with the track is what you feel the most and it is not interrupted by Internet players. If the interactions stutter, you barely notice (the only important bit is if the players are in front or behind you at any given time, if that is right, everything else can be jumping all over and inconsistent internally and your game will just smooth it out and make it look natural)
This is actually a pretty surface explanation, as people have been trying to solve these issues for decades and it gets very multi-layered. The main points stands, though. Different games lead to different perceptions about playing on a network.
(Mario Maker 2 is like Smash, for instance, while Monster Hunter — much more like an FPS)
@NintendoByNature This can only mean that GameCube games are coming to NSO. Think about it. You'd be dumb not to. What better way to kick test a new system than ironically literal figurationly releasing old games?
@HobbitGamer I'm not on board with that. I mean, nintendo must be playing chicken with AoL. When I play my gaem, I want that broadband adapter to NOT be working overtiem. Oh and btw, there's no way in bowsers castle gamecube games are coming with out some sort of pay wall. Greedy crapcom
I am still missing some accomplishments that get the best results from online play in Yo-kai Watch Blasters Red Cat Corps. I hope this does not effect it.
Imagine what would happen if nintendo got everything right. By that I mean just stay as they are and come in mid gen when the inevitable Ps5 upgrade console comes about and drop a powerhouse home console. Full backwards compatible from wii to switch. The switch would substitute the missing wii u pad and the joycons have everything else needed plus are perfect for vr. Please nintendo just do it.
So, will this improve things? According to OatmealDome, probably not.
Seriously? I been waiting for an online improvement for Mario Maker 2 since release.
All this time I’ve just been blaming the others online of their bad servers. I get good games half the time but I find it odd when I play smash and all of a sudden I get a laggy opponent. When I play online I’m always next to the router and I play when no one else is using my WiFi.
Please fix Nintendo. Online is pretty bad at times.
Whenever something like this comes up (an improvement that does nothing, or Nintendo being Nintendo and doing something that would've probably been cool in the 90s but is utterly antiquated and pointless today), I can't help but think that this is exactly what happens when you actively recruit people who do not play games to make, well, games.
It's incredible how easy it is for a gamer to see what will and what won't fly with consumers or make for a great experience. P2P? Get that ***** out of there. If a game has significant online presence, get that on a dedicated server immediately - it will make the experience better for the majority, which is what matters. Then include local multiplayer for the people sitting in the same room. Done.
Some people would argue fighting games are better with p2p, but that's also just bogus. P2P in a fighting game means that 7 out of 10 fights will be frustrating lagfests where you might as well just afk because the game is unplayable - even with good netcode. Yes, I pulled that number out of my behind, but it honestly isn't even an unfair estimate. Those 3 in 10 great fights where skill was the determining factor simply aren't worth it - consistency is king.
Anyway, rant over. Won't be answering replies, just something I needed off my chest :3
@Zidentia
Is it the Wave Race MMO I’ve been waiting 30 years for?
It’s is isn’t it! I knew it! 🥳🥳🥳
Good for you Ninty, a/b time
So I can currently play Rocket League online without NSO but I can't play ACNH online without paying money?
Now what we need is a miiverse rerun.
Kind of wish it was called the Super NEX (SNEX)
@michellelynn0976 I'm right. Doesn't matter what the architecture is, it will be slow due to Nintendo's servers.
@liveswired Nope, you are wrong. It will be faster from the get-go. Grow up and get over it.
I just hope that one thing that Nintendo makes a priority for during this generation is a dedicated Nintendo Online ecosystem. Sony and Microsoft have had stable ecosystems for three generations now. Nintendo fans like me that have invested countless amounts of money, even hundreds of dollars, in our digital games need to be reassured that Nintendo won't leave us out in the cold if they decide to end the service.
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