News Article

Talking Point: Is Nintendo Ignoring WiiWare?

Posted by Damien McFerran

Before WiiWare became a reality Nintendo was telling everyone that would listen that the service would revolutionise the way people purchase and play video games.

Such was the company’s enthusiasm for the notion of digital distribution, the hype surrounding the launch of WiiWare was almost deafening. It was hard not to get carried away by the tidal wave of optimism.

The service has now been available for a good few months and we’ve seen some awesome games. LostWinds, World of Goo, Pop, Alien Crush Returns, Toki Tori, Space Invaders Get Even, Mega Man 9 and Final Fantasy: My Life as a King are all excellent games that are worthy of your undivided attention.

However, it’s rather telling that not a single one of these titles is produced or published by Nintendo. In fact, the company’s support for its much-hyped service has been mysteriously lacking of late.

So far, Nintendo has published a total of seven games on WiiWare – the trio of ArtStyle titles, Magnetica Twist, Dr Mario, My Pokémon Ranch and MaBoShi: The Three Shape Arcade. Out of those games, MaBoShi is arguably the best - and that wasn’t even developed in-house.

Such data begs the question: why is Nintendo treating WiiWare with such disinterest?

As a company, Nintendo is famous for its brands. Mario, Donkey Kong, Zelda and Metroid are recognized the world over and have sold millions of units of software in every territory.

Nintendo has always taken pride in the fact that its games are system-sellers – Sony and Microsoft may have big titles in their arsenal, but they can’t make the same boast – a game like Fable 2 or Ratchet and Clank does not shift consoles in the same way that a new Mario, Zelda or Wii Sports game does.

So why have we not seen these huge licenses make an appearance on WiiWare? Dr Mario is the only glimpse we’ve had of Nintendo’s leading mascot, and even that was a mildly underwhelming update of an existing title.

Capcom has already reaped the rewards of producing a retro-themed reinterpretation of a classic franchise in the shape of Mega Man 9, so why doesn’t Nintendo do the same?

It doesn’t take a genius to realize that the demand for a new Mario or Zelda adventure - crafted with the same gorgeous 16-bit visuals that made the SNES instalments so appealing – would mean any new first-party project would literally fly off the (virtual) shelves.

Development time would also be negligible compared to the kind of effort involved with creating a first party Wii retail release; and if Nintendo’s own hype is to be believed, the company would stand to make a tidy profit thanks to the digital download scheme.

Perhaps Nintendo thinks that WiiWare doesn’t need its support. However, while the service has provided some sterling titles, only the most blinkered fan would argue that there hasn’t been quite a lot of shovelware present as well.

SPOGS Racing, Hockey Allstar Shootout and The Incredible Maze are not good advertisements for the potential of WiiWare. More often than not, we’re finding that the small indie coders behind the vast majority of WiiWare games are unable to turn their lofty ambitions into reality; the result is a catalogue of software that is becoming increasingly populated by below-average ‘me too’ titles produced by ambitious but underfunded Western coders.

Looking to the future, WiiWare has plenty to offer, with or without Nintendo’s involvement. We have some promising indie titles such as Bobby Carrot Forever, Eduardo the Samurai Toaster, Evasive Space, Icarian: Kindred Spirits and LostWinds 2, but we’re willing to bet that most WiiWare gamers would be willing to trade all of those titles for a true Mario, Zelda or Metroid game crafted by Nintendo.

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User Comments (102)

KDR_11k

#1

KDR_11k said:

I have a feeling Nintendo may be intentionally holding back so third parties can feel safe, after all they whine so much about having to compete with Nintendo. Plus they got enough libraries to feed, the Wii needs more retail games and anything that's simple enough to fit on it can be put on the DS instead. And hell, Nintendo can afford to make its big brands retail. In fact it may be a better idea to keep them as retail since using ideas up on cheap downloadable titles means the ideas are no longer available for the next retail release and if people can get lots of Mario, Zelda, Metroid, etc from the WW service the big retail releases may lose some of their impact as people think "oh, yet another Zelda" instead of welcoming a brand they haven't played for years.

Jonny

#2

Jonny said:

It's not just wiiware- nintendo is seemingly not producing any games at all these days. Other then wii sports resort or a bunch of GC remakes what are nintendo cooking up that we know about?

As for wiiware, while there is a lot of shovelware you'll find that with any console, as long as a truely good game (WOG, toki tori, MM9) comes along once in a while thats enough for me, though I am worried when the next great one will come along.

As for wiiware wish list, I'm still waiting on an online co op 4 swords remake, come on nintendo make it happen.

Kevin

#3

Kevin said:

I see Co-op four swords probably more likely to come to the wii rather than wiiware.

MarkyVigoroth

#4

MarkyVigoroth said:

I bet Nintendo thinks of WiiWare as a way for little developers to shine.

Then again, did not Nintendo apparently emphasize WiiWare releases over Virtual Console?

Pablo17

#5

Pablo17 said:

I am also surprised with the lack of Nintendo made games on Wiiware. Wiiware would be a great chance to upgrade a classic and I would love to see something like, Zelda, Metroid or the Super Mario series get a make over. It would also be nice to see them put out somthing new but maybe they are working on something?

Jon2

#6

Jon2 said:

Nintendo treats it's service like ****! First the VC and then the WiiWare. They could have earned millions by doing new 16-bit-like games of their own brands. I guess they earn enough already.

Sycoraxic98

#7

Sycoraxic98 said:

Mario and Zelda, almost certainly, but Metroid, NO. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE the Metroid franchise, but Nintendo CLOSED down the wing that made the Metroid games. So, if there IS another Metroid game, it'll suck. Big time.

But, Super Mario Bros 4 might be on it's way, so meh. If it DOES come, it'll be a thoughtless download for me!

Sycoraxic98

#9

Sycoraxic98 said:

@Damo

No...?

That's Super Mario World 2.

Super Mario Bros 4 is the fabled 8 or 16 bit Mario Platformer coming to WiiWare soon.

Dunno if it really will, though.
Can't wait till next E3!

Scrent

#11

Scrent said:

"We have some promising indie titles such as Bobby Carrot Forever, Eduardo the Samurai Toaster, Evasive Space, Icarian: Kindred Spirits and LostWinds 2, but we’re willing to bet that most WiiWare gamers would be willing to trade all of those titles for a true Mario, Zelda or Metroid game crafted by Nintendo."

I guess you answered the question with this part of the text. During the launch of the WiiWare there was a lot of talk about how this could help new ideas to come to life by small developers and such. But if Nintendo had made a ton of games to WiiWare, I'm pretty sure that most of those great games listed above wouldn't shine like it did.

DamoAdmin

#12

Damo said:

Oh yeah, Super Mario World 2.

I think it was called Super Mario Advance 4 when it came out on the GBA, which is probably where I'm getting mixed up.

EDIT: Yeah, er, what Daz said! I knew I was right (kinda)

gameking23

#13

gameking23 said:

I want Nintendo to come out with a Super Mario Bros 4 too. That game would be so awsome. I just wish Nintendo would wake up and offer us some more games like these.

Sycoraxic98

#14

Sycoraxic98 said:

Yes, but, that was never OFFICIALLY called 'Super Mario Bros 4'.

I'm thinking, simple. It could work for under 30 blocks, too, if you look at the sizes of Super Mario World and Super Mario Bros 3, so it would take minimal development time.

If it did come out, I'd be ecstatic!

DazzaAdmin

#15

Dazza said:

@Sycoraxic98 - It was official in Japan! :D

A WiiWare port of Zelda: Four Swords Adventures would seem to be the simplest option. Despite this games genius I cannot imagine it sold to it's potential on the Gamecube. It was always a game crying out for online support.

Make it happen Nintendo! :-p

hal

#16

hal said:

hmm.. think Nintendo wants to make space for other contributers on Wiiware + probably focus on retail release [--though a Game&Watch remake +/OR MarioPaint on wiiware should certainly be welcome]. maybe they should:

  • occasionally, create small teams from their R&D base with the best ideas to make wiiware.(pretty sure they have lots of unused ideas; some should work!). +
  • BE MORE DISCRIMINATING (why the garbage?!) Wii users want to trust Nintendo's 'taste level'..

--as for 'system sellers', [probably a generalization but] PS3 has better than Ratchet&Clank (LittleBigPlanet, Echochrome, SirenBloodCurse,Mainichi Issho,Ico series,のびのびBOY! for others: Home ect.,ect.).

Sycoraxic98

#17

Sycoraxic98 said:

@Dazza
Hmmm...

It wasn't official here, so they could pull off another Super Mario Bros 2 and call it 4 here, and USA 2 there, or 5.

Nickname

#20

Nickname said:

I really think Nintedo created WiiWare with another idea on his mind rather than publish their own ames. I think it' more like give a chance to all indy developers to get into the market so that the company can focus in their bigger projects, which are the ones hitting the shelves.
I'm not saying that wouldn't be great to see a New Super Mario Bros kind of game on WiiWare but I don't think we are going to see it soon.

KDR_11k

#21

KDR_11k said:

I'm saying they already made another sidescrolling Mario game. Why would they make a WiiWare game? Megaman had to go 8 bit because the later Megaman games sucked and they wanted to pretend those didn't exist in order to get their reputation back. The Mario brand hasn't been driven into the ground like that so there's no reason to "rewind" it. Metroid already recovered from Fusion without any need to go retro (no pun intended). Zelda changed so much from its original design that the fans the series has probably wouldn't even WANT another NES-like entry. Without a need to rewind to 8bit there is no need to make a quick and cheap WW version when a full fledged DS game could be made instead that sells for 40€ a piece instead of 10. Also cheap versions of the big brands could dilute the brands by leading to overuse of the brand and do more harm than good (a Zelda game wouldn't be a big event if you got one every year).

From a strategic standpoint it doesn't make sense either, the WW service is running perfectly without much interference (and might even suffer if Nintendo dropped big bombs, choking all third party sales) so Nintendo doesn't need to make games just to help the service. If they make games for their big brands they can make them retail and know that people will buy them. What Nintendo does occassionally put on the service is smaller games that wouldn't (or didn't) work well at retail.

Luigi_La_Bouncy

#22

Luigi_La_Bouncy said:

If you want gorgeuos colourful 2D Nintendo platform games buy a DS.

Best WiiWare game so far? Dr. Mario (by Nintendo) :p

Adam

#23

Adam said:

I hate to say this, given how sick many of us are of WW puzzlers, but I'd love to see Nintendo pull out a WW Puzzle League so I don't have to play with Pikachu on the VC.

Their big titles (Mario, Metroid, Zelda) might be better off, from a business standpoint, going retail where they're certain to get the attention and sales they deserve. However, I still think Nintendo's neglecting the service because they have so many neglected titles they could bring back. Kid Icarus, Balloon Fight, Star Tropics... I'm sure someone else could fill out the list.

Mega Man has only gotten much, much worse since the early SNES days, so it's not a fair comparison even though he was a worthy competitor with Mario and Samus back in the day. I'm not sure Nintendo has as much reason as Capcom to do such an old-school revival, as much as I'd love it.

KDR_11k

#24

KDR_11k said:

One thing about WW remakes of 8bit games is that there's already the VC that can get you all those 8bit games in their original form.

indenmark

#25

indenmark said:

I think it's a little early for an article like this . . . the WiiWare service is roughly 8 months old in NA and Europe (10 in Japan), and there are already a whopping 35 games available for it that have scored a 7 or better on this site (and 21 of them scored an 8 or better).

We really have nothing to complain about on the WiiWare side of things.

It's the lack of disc games that has me a little concerned. I think Jonny makes a good point when he observes that Nintendo doesn't seem to be making any games nowadays. It's really baffling, isn't it?

If they haven't put out anything aside from Wii Music over the past 6 months, and they've got nothing but re-makes of GCN games and Wii Sports Resort on tap for the next 6 months, what, exactly, ARE they doing? Fine-tuning Wii Motion Plus?

j

KnucklesSonic8

#26

KnucklesSonic8 said:

Don't worry guys. Kirby, DK, Mario, Zelda and even Metroid WiiWare titles are in the works. Trust me. Question is, which one's on its way first...?

Yasume

#27

Yasume said:

(and 21 of them scored an 8 or better).

But probably 75% of them are overrated. I've played LostWinds, Bomberman Blast, Alien Crush Returns and My Aquarium and they all don't deserve the score that they have been given.

Djungelurban

#28

Djungelurban said:

I'd so love a new 2D Metroid, I know many others would aswell and I think that WiiWare would be a perfect fit for it. Come on Nintendo, time to throw us a bone here!

dfalco

#29

dfalco said:

if you ask me i think wii ware shoud give up there is no games on the grab my teast and i want more vc games. the older ones are better then the new wiiware games by miles. the only wii ware games i like are publish by nintendo wtich is only art styel and dr mario pokemon ranch and anloop twist

Adam

#30

Adam said:

Re: Nintendo Isn't Making Retail Games

Punch-Out, anyone? I'm not a fan of the old games (sue me), but I enjoyed Wii Sports Boxing, and the art style looks very nice. Is this not being made by a first-party studio? Even if not, it should still sort of count since it is one of Nintendo's franchises.

Also, I know it's still only one game, and yes, that does worry me, but it's worth mentioning.

ness

#31

ness said:

I agree with KDR_11k's 1st and 21th post.

@ Jonny: "Other then wii sports resort or a bunch of GC remakes what are nintendo cooking up that we know about?"

At least a new Mario, Zelda and Pikmin game.

TrueWiiMaster

#32

TrueWiiMaster said:

It would be awesome if Nintendo would make some new versions of some of their old games. I would love to see a Super Mario World 2, or a new entry in the much-neglected Donkey Kong series, but honestly Nintendo has no reason to resort to them. They still have plenty of games to put on the Virtual Console like DK64 and the first SSB, not to mention third party titles that have enormous followings. I would rather see Nintendo put out a product to expand the Wii's hard drive so that I could download more at once; maybe to plug into the usb?

As for actual retail games, I don't think we have anything to worry about. Sure, all we see so far in the line-up are rehashed games and Wii Sports Resort, but that doesn't mean there's nothing else on the way. I mean seriously, when has Nintendo ever announced everything they're working on? They've probably been working on an new Zelda, Mario, etc. ever since the last installment. It would not be unlike Nintendo to still have a few tricks up their sleeves. We just have to wait until the next masterpiece comes out, and until then, I'm satisfied with the current line-up of rehashes.

KDR_11k

#33

KDR_11k said:

I actually think the DS would be better for a new 2d Metroid because of the poprtability. Metroid is big enough to be sold retail.

Terra

#34

Terra said:

I Wouldn't say that Nintendo are ignoring it but the fact that we haven't seen much IN-HOUSE stuff (Did that in case someone doesn't see that part). They've just been relying on Skip ltd. with Art Style games and use it as an excuse to say they do support WiiWare. Nothing against the games, as they're good but we need more stuff directly from Nintendo.

There is also the case that there are several games they have developed/published that haven't been released outside Japan. People don't take this into consideration or just ignore it because we don't have it.

I can't imagine any PROPER (Same reason as before) games based on big Nintendo franchises coming out on WiiWare. I'd count out Metroid, Zelda, Pokemon and Mario unless they were spin-offs of the main games like Dr Mario and Pokemon Ranch were. Those games are much more profitable at retail. Metroid Dread though, that could be likely for WiiWare if it exists. However, i'd say DS is more likely but i can hope.

Smaller franchises are more likely though. I do hope we'll get a WiiWare Startropics at some point, or Ice Climbers, or maybe even Duck Hunt. Maybe even some more WiiWare adaptations of Touch Generation Games. Maybe the west will even see a game in the Wii Series released on WiiWare, like Wii Chess probably should have been when compared to what Japan got. Any of those that i mentioned would really be great. The DSi could be interesting for this though. We are several original games and we're getting the WarioWare games (Even though theyre basically an excuse to show off the capabilities of Nintendo's new hardware and controls) and one of them will have a WiiWare version. Unfortunately, so far only smaller versions of retail/WiiWare games and a couple of Art Style's have been made available

I Guess one problem is with them deciding to do a new title or make one based on an existing franchise and it doesn't always end good. Think about Disaster and Endless Ocean. Two original games published by them for retail and compare the successes they've had.

-
"I'd love to see Nintendo pull out a WW Puzzle League"
I've mentioned such a thing before and i would love for it to be true. I mean, i don't honestly see Nintendo making a Wii Puzzle League retail, unless it was a budget title and i wouldn't bet they'd do that. Look at Actionloop on DS and WiiWare and you'll see what i mean. WiiWare would work better

-
"Other then wii sports resort or a bunch of GC remakes, what are nintendo cooking up that we know about"
Punch Out!! Wii, Another Code R, Endless Ocean 2, New Mario and Zelda, Pikmin, possibly Kirby, Sin and Punishment 2 and a fair number of original games, half of which are likely to hit the west IMO. These are all Games Nintendo are publishing or/and Developing.

Rawk_Hawk

#35

Rawk_Hawk said:

You know this was discussed on the IGN's Nintendo voice chat as well. The point was made that most casual gamers are not taking advantage of downloading affordable games from Wii Ware or the VC. Nintendo is not made the process of getting the Wii online and downloading games simple enough for the casuals and only regular gamers are the ones downloading most games. I think if Nintendo did put out more titles it could help garner some more interest for the downloadable services.So far I just don't think they advertise it very well. I have talked to many casual Wii owners who did not even know they could download cheaper games onto the Wii. I think that needs to change

AlexSays

#36

AlexSays said:

What are you people talking about?
Did you miss the part where Nintendo said this would be for third-party developers?
Who would make a game that had to compete with Mario and Zelda? NOBODY!

This isn't a tough one, guys.

Terra

#37

Terra said:

@Alexsays
It may be for 3rd party devs and i can understand them not wanting competition (Who Would? Developers will always have competition and there is no way around that) but surely they could add some more of their own stuff every now and then. Would that hurt so much?

Starwolf_UK

#38

Starwolf_UK said:

Out of those games, MaBoShi is arguably the best - and that wasn’t even developed in-house.
You say that as if any of the Nintendo published WiiWare was developed in-house. The only difference with MaBoShi is it was Nintendos first time they publised a title for erm, Mindware (if WiiWare world hadn't done the interviews I wouldn't know the name...wait, why don't you guys list developer?) except I think Dr.Mario was also a first for Akira.

Skip Ince previous ones were Chibi Robo and Captain Rainbow, Ambrella are a craphouse owned by Nintendo who make Crappy Pokemon games and nothing more and Mitchell Nintendo published Polarium and Action loop.

I think many people are over estimating the size of Nintendo. In real terms they are not a large company. That is why they are earning as much per head as Goldman Sachs (of course Nintendo employ a whole lot less people so their total profit is nowhere near as high).

In order to feed us hungry gamers appetites they have slowly but surley bulit a tursted network of links most of which became second party. People like HAL (Kirby), Intelligent Systems (Advance Wars and Fire Emblem...also software and hardware to aid game development; things like TV-out for DS) are good examples.

Then we have 3rd parties like Fuse Games (Metroid Prime Pinball) and Kuju games (they recently changed their name...Batallion Wars, House of the Dead Overkill). Many of them seem to be doing nothing (in particular Fuse games have been unheared from since Metroid Prime Pinball) but what if they were working on something?

Finally you've got to remember Nintendo of America are the ones behind WiiWare. They wanted a platform to compete with XBLA and the like while NCL didn't seem to care outside of the TV Tokyo Bingo Channel (made up but seriously Japan is getting loads of "sponsered by" channels of that nature). Basically, the American WiiShop is turning into a pit of shovelware and the Japanese one into advertisement hell.

Terra

#39

Terra said:

@Starwolf_UK
With Kuju, only their London division changed their name recently (the ones doing House of the Dead: Overkill) to Headstrong Games. I think the Kuju Name is just for the core company while the divisions within have different names.

Wiiloveit

#40

Wiiloveit said:

@Damo: Wrong again, Super Mario Advance 4 was SMB3 - Yoshi's Island was SMA3 and Super Mario World was SMA2. On a related note, the person who decided to release SMB2 (Western) as the first SMA game needs to be shot.

...most WiiWare gamers would be happy to trade all these for a true Mario, Zelda or Metroid game crafted by Nintendo.
Erm.., LW2, Icarian, Evasive Space, Eduardo... - no way would I trade all those for a new Ninty game - however much I'd like a 2D Metroid return or a more challenging New Super Mario Bros.

Oh, and good new feature - will "talking point" be a new weekly feature? The weekly charts are starting to tire.

Luigi_La_Bouncy

#41

Luigi_La_Bouncy said:

Why's everyone doubting Nintendo. Of my ten favorite Wii games 9 were published by Nintendo and the other one is RE4.

I think WiiWare is for the likes of Frontier and 2D Boy and other small-time developers to get some attention, would we have bothered with Lost Winds if we'd had a Mario game at launch?

I definately wouldn't want Nintendo to get distracted from making big retail games, for example I would freakin' love a new full-blown Starfox game, that would make my 2009. (what are the chances I wonder?)

AlexSays

#42

AlexSays said:

@ Terranigma
Yes that would hurt a lot.
Games like MaBoShi and Art Style are fine because they don't overshadow other games.
A game like Mario or Zelda would completely overshadow any other game on the service.
Heck, they made sure they released Pokemon as soon as possible so they didn't release it when there were a ton of games. That's why Nintendo's two biggest titles came so early, because Nintendo didn't want competition to suffer.
And even with that precaution, I'm sure Toki Tori felt the affects.

Some people aren't even happy with WiiWare sales as is.
You think they want to compete with Nintendo?
Nintendo is serving the service best by completely ignoring it.

Anyone who thinks Mario or Zelda on WiiWare is a good idea must hate games like World of Goo. Because those kind of developers would not compete with Nintendo on Nintendo's home turf.

ACK

#43

ACK said:

Nintendo doesn't need to develop and release WiiWare games to make money. It's really that simple. I'm sure they'll release the occasional title to rejuvenate interest in the service, but they don't need their franchises hogging the Wii points when they are trying to convince other companies that WiiWare offers a viable market.

Also, Nintendo makes money off of every purchase of Wii points regardless of the game you buy. Which is why they probably prefer that we buy games that other companies funded and developed.

PiratePete

#44

PiratePete said:

I don't think Nintendo should be pressured to recreate the old style for Mario, Zelda or Metroid. They can sell those at retail with ease, although they wouldn't be unwelcome on WiiWare. I would rather have Nintendo focus their attention to the Wii's retail library ( DS is doing OK IMO ) But yes, Nintendo really should be realising new IP, to set an example to indie developers, so they know their game could sell.
I think more companies and small developers should be making free or very cheap downloadable content for the Wii. Look at the iPhone/iPod Touch's success. Lots of free content made its gaming aspect so successful and popular. Simple games like Cube Runner could be ported to Wii with relative ease, as the controls are the same as the iPod's. Once everyone knows of that developer because they downloaded their free game, they will buy their future releases which require purchase. And space won't be a problem, developers! The iPod games take up little memory because they're so simple and minimalistic. Heck, it would be easy enough to let the games be played straight from an SD card. If Vicarious Visions and hackers can do it, a development studio could. Just think of how big this could become!
Sorry if somebody already mentioned my idea, I scrolled straight to the bottom to comment. I'm eager :)

Wiiloveit

#45

Wiiloveit said:

Maybe if they did a remake of Super Mario World, that would be popular and make Ninty a "quick buck". All they'd need are some Super Paper Mario style graphics (nothing too fancy) alongside easier controls than those on the Classic Controller. 1000-1200 points should ensure it still sells pretty well.

Rawk_Hawk

#46

Rawk_Hawk said:

No No No..... everyone is wrong. Super Mario 4 was actually released on the GBA as Super Mario 5 USA in Japan and ported to the USA as Super Mario 4 Deluxe. Yoshi's Island Advance part 2 was actually Super Mario World 3 in Japan and Brazil but not in America. It may have also been ported to the Sega Master system :P Anyway I hope that clears it up

Kirk

#47

Kirk said:

Just imagine how many games Nintendo could do WiiWare versions of in the same vain as Mega Man 9!

Even if they changed very little in terms of the actual design and graphics etc but offered them like they were expansion packs with new levels and maybe a few extra modes like multi-player online play etc I know I would love to play them...More than most modern games in fact:

Super Mario Wold
Legend of Zelda
Super Metroid
Super Punch Out
Earthbound
F-Zero

The list goes on...

I mean look at this 4-player version of F-Zero that some guy hacked.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=hFbEFNdO0HU

Now imagine if Nintendo actually put in some time and effort and released that as an official properly polished WiiWare game.

How cool would that be!

vherub

#48

vherub said:

1st party sales drive hardware sales historically for nintendo, but the wii doesn't need any help right now. And if anything, you see 3rd party struggling a bit to compete with 1st party titles like wiifit or mario kart. Nintendo has a balancing act because any mario (or pokemon) wiiware game will sell tons- perhaps at the expense of the other wiiware titles. Could be similar with the vc games where the aaa nintendo titles are slow to release. Is 1st party or 3rd party more important right now and for the future of nintendo?

Terra

#49

Terra said:

@Alexsays
Let's be Honest. What are the chances of a Proper Zelda or a Proper Mario appearing on WiiWare? I would place my bet that it would never happen. Sure, we got Dr Mario but it ain't exactly a Proper Mario title. Looking at sales figures in the past, i can see what you mean with the sales generally going towards Nintendo's games but the other game sales can't be that bad surely. Toki Tori is a good example of 3rd party games suffering, i'll admit.

I Would have to disagree with you where you say that them ignoring the service is for the best, as IMO, it isn't. I'm not saying Nintendo should release loads of games, that isn't a good idea as they should keep most focus on their generally excellent Retail titles (where the 3rd party developers often don't deliver) and it will drive away the smaller WiiWare 3rd party Devs. What i am saying is that they shouldn't just not develop any at all but release something outside Art Style on occasions. Maybe they should just focus on original titles and stick to Art Style but gamers will want more and on very special occasions release a game based on one of their franchises. It may hurt some 3rd party sales yes but it would certainly please a lot of fans.

@Vherub
I would say 3rd party because, although the 1st party range of titles is generally great on the Wii, you can't keep a console alive solely on that. 3rd party support is essential for any console to stay alive.

Wiiloveit

#50

Wiiloveit said:

A new Punch Out is severely unlikely with the upcoming Punch Out!! Wii coming to retail later in the year, but if they were to rerelease games such as Super Mario Kart with Wi-fi slapped on, I know that many people would be very, very happy indeed.

No No No..... everyone is wrong. Super Mario 4 was actually released on the GBA as Super Mario 5 USA in Japan and ported to the USA as Super Mario 4 Deluxe. Yoshi's Island Advance part 2 was actually Super Mario World 3 in Japan and Brazil but not in America. It may have also been ported to the Sega Master system Anyway I hope that clears it up
Way to confuse everyone, there. And wait... Sega Master System? You crazy?

Cipher

#51

Cipher said:

I don't believe Nintendo is ignoring WiiWare. As I'm sure a lot of people have already said, I believe it was set up and designed to allow smaller third-party companies to release their games without having to pay for expansive SDKs and other costs incurred with DS and Wii releases. It just so happens that, every so often, a major company such as Square Enix or Nintendo themselves decides they want to try it out for themselves.

worrybomb

#52

worrybomb said:

Nintendo made WiiWare in order to not only compete with Playstation Network and Xbox Live Arcade but to also give third-party developers a chance to put out their content where other doors were closed for them. I don't think Nintendo is ignoring WiiWare by not putting a Mario, Zelda or Metroid WiiWare game. A game like New Super Mario Bros. for the Nintendo DS, that is still selling mind you, will mostly have a sequel on the NDS. It would be nice as suggested above if Zelda: The Four Sword Adventures would be ported to WiiWare with online play.

IMO, Nintendo needs to do a tad better job at broadcasting WiiWare to the public. Aside from World of Goo and Mega Man 9, there's no advertisement for other games like Toki Tori or MaBoShi both games which display what the WiiWare service is all about. Also another way of WiiWare getting some notice is by upping the WiiWare size limit so a game like Animales De La Muerte can be released through the service. It's a pain to leave at some features out of a game or break down your game as "episodic content". I'm not saying a 40MB game isn't worth the time or Wii points but in order to make an impact, I certainly think this would be a good way. C'mon Nintendo...release that "direct download-to-SD card" feature and raise the size limit.

Wiiloveit

#54

Wiiloveit said:

@worrybomb: the way Nintendo sees it is that people who really give a damn about the Wii Shop Channel will also be the ones most likely to use the Nintendo Channel, so if WiiWare trailers are on there, they are reaching their audience. I personally think they need to release a TV advert with a brief explanation of what to do followed by a quick montage of gameplay clips. If they stuck a celeb in there, the service would appeal even more. Sadly - it would appeal more to those who are likely to think "The Incredible maze" sounds good :(

BulbasaurusRex

#55

BulbasaurusRex said:

New 16-bit versions of Mario, Zelda, and Metroid aren't necessary due to the overwhelming popularity and quality of the 3D installments. However, Sega should make a new 16-bit Sonic game for WiiWare, since their speedy mascot's 3D games has never been as popular and almost never (with the exceptions of Sonic Adventure and Sonic Adventure 2) of the same qualtiy as his 2D games.

Wiiloveit

#56

Wiiloveit said:

Sega should make a new 16-bit Sonic game for WiiWare
That. Is. Genius.
And really obvious now I think about it, although no doubt Sega will already be working on something similar... with "added fun" :|

ETSM

#59

ETSM said:

Nintendo's initial goal with Wiiware wasn't to release a plethora of games on it but to try and find "that next big game" from a 3rd party, likely from small devs who they could buy if they wanted. If they were releasing many games on the service, they'd be snuffing out most 3rd parties and removing any chance these tiny devs would get recognition for their games.

Same reason you don't plant flowers in the shade of your house, I guess.

Jonny

#60

Jonny said:

@Ness & Terranigma

Sin and Punishment 2 is being developed by Treasure, Punch Wii is being developed by Next Level Games (people who made mario strikers), Endless Ocean by Arika, Another Code R by Cing.

Everything else you listed is unconfirmed (although pikmin was heavily hinted, they said the same about Kid Icarius last year and nothing turned up at all), with people only assuming that they're coming, for all we know they're not. So once again - what the hell are nintendos teams doing? What happened to the old days when we'd be given glimpses of games a year or two in advance and savour the long wait til we got our hands on them.

Terra

#61

Terra said:

@Jonny
It's not in my nature to be rude but
A: I said games that are being developed or PUBLISHED. Nintendo are publishing Endless Ocean 2, Punch Out!! Wii, Another Code R and Sin and Punishment 2.
B: Mario and Zelda are confirmed
C: While Kirby hasn't been officially announced although it has been talked about and seems to be in development or some sort of development hell.
D: Pikmin 3 IS being developed and has been Officially confirmed. Kid Icarus is still just a rumour
E: They announced several New IP's (Original Games for those who don't know) at that press conference last October, alongside most of the games i listed.

As for Nintendo's general tactic of keeping the lower profile games secret until they're a few months off a release, i like it. It means that we aren't waiting forever until it finally gets released. I hate waiting for games which won't be released for another year or two but i can see why Devs reveal them so early on.

tatemon555

#62

tatemon555 said:

Good article. I agree that classic series such as Mario and Zelda should come to WiiWare, instead of yet another Nintendo puzzle game.

KDR_11k

#63

KDR_11k said:

I buy WW games to get something different from the big budget games, not to get downscaled Mario or Zelda...

I'm not sure 16bit Sonic would work out, they had plenty at that level with the Advance and Rush games and those didn't live up to the Megadrive games either (though the Rush ones were better than the Advance games). I don't think Sega would be able to replicate the quality of the older games.

hal

#65

hal said:

Sega definitely couldn't live up to the megadrive/genesis games! the real Sonic team has been dissolved for awhile now; Sega [currently] is really almost useless..

[actually think they were on the right track with Sonic adventures + pocket adventures (ngpc) which is actually just Sonic 2 lol]

Bass_X0

#66

Bass_X0 said:

Amongst others, I'd like to see more Mario and Zelda "spin-off" games on the WiiWare. Games set in the Mario and Zelda universe but not exactly the next big thing of the series nor strictly remakes of older games either.

What conjures up in your mind if they said "Donkey Kong Jr. 2", "Adventures of Lolo 4" or "Captain Falcon: Bounty Hunter" were to come to WiiWare?

Jonny

#67

Jonny said:

@ Terranigma

Sorry, I just don't see a game as confirmed til I see it in action or at least a picture.

Terra

#68

Terra said:

There is a video you could probably find on Youtube showing some of the games in Nintendo's line up from the Press Conference. IGN has some screenshots for some of the games.

indenmark

#69

indenmark said:

@AlexSays:

I respectfully disagree with your mentality of "Who would make a game that had to compete with Mario and Zelda? NOBODY!".

I think 3rd-party developers would be thrilled to see a Mario or Zelda WiiWare game, as it would raise awareness of the service. No, they wouldn't want it released the same week as their game, but any smart developer would welcome Nintendo boosting awareness and use of the WiiWare service.

When the butcher puts hamburger on sale, the sales of buns at the bakery next door go up, too. A flawed analogy, but there it is.

But really, the best way for Nintendo to raise awareness and use of the WiiWare service IS to release a WiiWare-exclusive game from one of their franchises.

Oh, and it would have to be completely awesome, of course.

Also, Nintendo would boost sales of smaller, 3rd-party games by releasing a WiiWare Mario or Zelda. Say Nintendo releases a WiiWare Mario, and they price it at 1,500 points, which would mean a LOT of spare 500 points floating around.

And some of those points would wind up in the hands of small, 3rd-party developers. It would be inevitable.

Good discussion all around on this one.

j

MayhemStaff

#70

Mayhem said:

Was gonna write something but KDR pretty much summed up my thoughts as well on the matter. It IS a good chance for third party developers to shine instead of competing with Nintendo titles on this platform at least.

@Sycoraxic - as Dazza said, look at the front of the Super Famicom version of Super Mario World and you'll see the words "Super Mario Bros 4"...

Objection

#71

Objection said:

Nintendo making a full-out WW Zelda or Mario is unrealistic and probably a bad idea in every area, but that doesn't mean they can't develop other (NEW) games for WW. This is about "Nintendo not really supporting WW with games," not "Nintendo isn't supporting with their big franchises."

Twilight_Crow

#72

Twilight_Crow said:

^ Totally agree.

@Bass X0
I'd like to here from those games you mentioned.

It would be nice to see a few Nintendo titles, maybe from old forgotten franchises (Golden Sun anyone?).

Bass_X0

#73

Bass_X0 said:

yeah. i'd like to see sequels to several old NES games even if I didn't particularly enjoy the actual NES game. "Donkey Kong 2" should be Game Boy Donkey Kong '94 with modern day graphics (like how they remade Toki Tori). "Donkey Kong 4" could star the modern day Donkey Kong in a short adventure maybe even fighting against Stanley. "Donkey Kong Jr. 2" could still star D.K. Jr. but also be aimed at young gamers this time. I also have a strange fascination with what "Donkey Kong Hockey 2" could be like which would be the sequel to a Game 'n' Watch game.

"Adventures of Lolo 4" could move the series into 3D and new types of puzzles would be introduced with the addition of a third dimension. And there has got to be downloadable stages of course.

"Captain Falcon: Bounty Hunter" could be an adventure game with stealth and shooting sections as you gather information, hunt down your bounty then fight them to bring them in. Characters from the F-Zero series would be your allies and enemies, also the areas would be set on known planets from the series.

And I don't really think of Golden Sun really as forgotten about. As a GBA game, its still quite recent. Its not in the same league of forgotten games as "Faxanadu".

Objection

#74

Objection said:

@Bass XO "And I don't really think of Golden Sun really as forgotten about. As a GBA game, its still quite recent." Well, it's been nearly 6 years since GS: Lost Age came out and there's still no official word on a sequel or any other Camelot RPG. To me, that's forgotten. But I put it this way because I am feverish for such a title. HINT HINT.
@Article-Speaking of LW2, any news? Like...any?

Virus

#75

Virus said:

Bah, I dislike these suggestions for new 16-bit renditions of Mario and Zelda. Sure, you can make a Mario/Zelda game for WiiWare, but I'd rather enjoy current-gen graphics than nostalgia. Still, like others before me, I would prefer to see new games from Nintendo's forgotten franchises. Some games (like Balloon Fight or even Ice Climbers) would probably not make it as retail games but most likely would have a great chance as a downloadable game. Whether that will happen, I can only hope.

And personally, MaBoShi being Nintendo's best WiiWare game seems farfetched to me even if its overall rating says so. I guess it's a hit for some, a scratch for others.

Kaeobais

#76

Kaeobais said:

I'd just love to see a 3d Link to the Past, with the EXACT same visuals, but in 3d. The exact same game, the exact same enemies, in 3d. I would buy that at any price.

Kirk

#77

Kirk said:

^^^^ I know exactly what you mean.

The same goes for Super Mario World.

The exact same game but in 3D.

Same viewpoint, same enemies, same everything but in 3D. Like they did with Bionic Commando (almost).

The could try moving the camera to 3rd person, like they did for SM64, but I think that would change the game too much and then it really wouldn't be Super Mario World as we know it (unless they did it perfectly, but I doubt they even know how) so I would just stick to side on.

I think that would actually be one of the best games ever made.

Bass_X0

#78

Bass_X0 said:

Well, it's been nearly 6 years since GS: Lost Age came out and there's still no official word on a sequel or any other Camelot RPG. To me, that's forgotten.

Yeah, I meant its still quite recent compared to games released 20 - 30 years ago which have been forgotten. The Game Boy Advance is only one generation ago in handhelds. Thats not old.

Chunky_Droid

#79

Chunky_Droid said:

I think if Nintendo needed to make games for WiiWare using their franchises, save Mario and Zelda for retail (albeit a Four Swords on WiiWare would make perfect sense), and develop WiiWare titles for characters either long forgotten about or side characters from existing franchises.

Say a Tingle (c'mon America, you're the only country that almost unanimously hate the guy, everyone else loves him, including me) quiz show game, where all the questions are video game related, with new downloadable questions as more stuff gets released.

Or say a platformer in the vein of Lost Vikings starring the Koopalings in exile from Koopa Palace trying to get revenge on the father that forgot them, perhaps Roy/Morton have strength, Ludwig/Iggy have magic, Lemmy/Lenny have speed and jumping ability, and you need to reach Wendy at the end of every level.

Or they could start releasing Game & Watch Galleries on WiiWare, and make updated versions starring Mr. Game & Watch. Just some ideas that Nintendo could use for their lower standard characters but bring out decent quality games.

Oh and a Cuccoo raising game involving Anju from Ocarina of Time/Majora's Mask wouldn't be out of the question either.

ness

#80

ness said:

@ Jonny United (#67): "Sorry, I just don't see a game as confirmed til I see it in action or at least a picture."

Yeah, but Miyamoto said that a new Mario, Zelda and Pikmin title are in development. You ask what Nintendo do, and this is a part of the answer.

Ren

#81

Ren said:

I don't get this debate at all. Clearly you misinterpreted the original hype behind the WW service. It is supposed to be about encouraging 3rd party, indie developers. How would that work if they decide to drop even a few great ninty developed bombshells? It's not FOR them. The art style games are almost teasers for the little guys to show what can be done simply (like wiisports was for retail games). Theres no reason for them to come in and dominate their own service thats created for indies. I applaud them for it;
on the other hand it should be noted that it needs more advertising. They have the marketing dollars, they should at least push it harder. I know lots of casuals who have no idea you can download anything, it's a huge untapped market. The VC is enough for nintendo, they have a jillion great classics there, but even that isn't advertised enough. I don't get why; it's like a money machine they haven't turned on.

AlexSays

#82

AlexSays said:

I don't get this debate at all. Clearly you misinterpreted the original hype behind the WW service. It is supposed to be about encouraging 3rd party, indie developers. How would that work if they decide to drop even a few great ninty developed bombshells

Ding! Ding! Ding!
This person is correct.
It's not even a debate because those who say "No" are wrong.
Anybody who disagrees with what Ren said is wrong.

Wiiloveit

#83

Wiiloveit said:

Or they could start releasing Game & Watch Galleries on WiiWare, and make updated versions starring Mr. Game & Watch. Just some ideas that Nintendo could use for their lower standard characters but bring out decent quality games.
Wait for DSiWare for those.

RE: Nintendo on WiiWare
I personally think that it would be best for the service if Nintendo released some more big-name franchise games on the service, to gain attention and MONIES. Plus, it's clear that new ideas Art Style (with the exception of Cubello) and MaBoShi just don't sell, so if Nintendo want money from the service (and of course, the do), they'll have to give the consumer what the consumer wants. I understand that that wasn't the original idea of WiiWare, but hey - things change.

ness

#84

ness said:

@ Wiiloeit (#83): "I personally think that it would be best for the service if Nintendo released some more big-name franchise games on the service, to gain attention and MONIES."

I think AlexSays, Ren and KDR_11k name some very good arguments against the strategy of releasing big-name franchise. And without doing this Nintendo maybe get even more money ;).

Wiiloveit

#85

Wiiloveit said:

It's a very balanced argument overall - for every pro, there's a fairly equal con. We can only guess where Nintendo goes from here - anything could end up happening.

Kaeobais

#87

Kaeobais said:

77. Kirk: Actually, I'd rather like to see a Super Mario World with the view point of Super Mario 64 ... And 3d would only work on my Link to the Past idea if it was in the view point of Ocarina of Time (or any other 3d zelda games) ... unless they did the Pokemon Diamond/Pearl thing, but that would defeat the purpose of making it 3d.

Also would like to see a new Wrecking Crew or Ice Climbers.

Objection

#88

Objection said:

@BassXO- "The Game Boy Advance is only one generation ago in handhelds. Thats not old." Don't mean to drag this on, but I didn't say old, I said forgotten.

Wiiloveit

#89

Wiiloveit said:

New Super Mario Brothers Wii, anyone?
Hey, that's a great idea - too bad no-one came up with the idea for a new Mario WiiWare game before.

Actually, I'd rather like to see a Super Mario World with the view point of Super Mario 64
That could work... or it could fail. Don't know what to make of that.

Bensei

#90

Bensei said:

@ Damo: Why don't you consider Super Mario World as SMB4?

Nintendo said already they want the better games to be available for everyone, but there are plans for a Wii(Wario)Ware

Terra

#92

Terra said:

@Wiiloveit
Nintendo Says. Made in Ore, one of the DSi WarioWare titles allows you to create your own microgames. The DSi WarioWare will connect with Asobu! Made in Ore, a WiiWare WarioWare which allows users to upload the microgames from the DSi game to the WiiWare game

Poo_Eats_Vomit

#98

Poo_Eats_Vomit said:

i would like to see arcade classic like The Simpsons, Teenage Mutants Ninja Turtles, or X-Men on Wiiware with its four player action.

Rawk_Hawk

#99

Rawk_Hawk said:

I agree with Post 81

And the reason were getting less VC games is because Nintendo feels they must stretch this VC thing out forever and ever and ever.

tkubas1

#101

tkubas1 said:

I think they should make a new Contra. Maybe call it Contra-Reloaded*, and it woulden't be on X-Box live. Use 16-bit graphics and have some new wepons. I would buy that for even 1500 points

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