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Topic: What GC VC games could look like if they were upscaled to 1080p

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Hokori

81. Posted:

So what version of So crazy chicken pirates 3D will be a ton better then Crazy Chicken Pirates for DSiWare?
Also Famitsu rated the HD version of MGS PW a 39/40 and the PSP one 40/40

Edited on by Hokori

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shingi_70

82. Posted:

Well the game was made for portable use. The HD review complained about the stuff that while suited for a portable system didn't fit an HD one. That was the biggest complaint in most reviews. That doesn't mean HD as a format is worse because its not.

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GameLord08

83. Posted:

LordOtakWiiU wrote:

So what version of So crazy chicken pirates 3D will be a ton better then Crazy Chicken Pirates for DSiWare?
Also Famitsu rated the HD version of MGS PW a 39/40 and the PSP one 40/40

Your skills of comprehension are devastatingly poor. Did you, or did you not see my opinion on remakes of games where graphics alone were all that was different? You just completely opposed what I said about that.

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Wheels2050

84. Posted:

kyuubikid213 wrote:

@Wheels2050 If the only difference was upscaled graphics, then why would it matter? Im not saying HD doesn't have it's good moments, I'm just saying that a good game is a good game whether it is in HD or not. And if they upscaled a good game to HD, then it'd be the same good game with improved graphics.

Now this is only my opinion, but remaking one of my favorite games in HD and not fixing any of the flaws won't make me enjoy it anymore.

I own Legend of Zelda Ocarina of Time 3D. This is an example of a game that upscales graphics and improves gameplay to make me enjoy it more. I did play the original and the improved graphics make it look good, but I would still love the game just the same as the original if it had the same N64 graphics. What they did to make me enjoy it more overall is improve certain aspects of the actual game like using the Iron Boots, aiming with the gyro controls, adding in little tips to help you throughout the game (especially the Water Temple), and add new game modes (Master Quest and Boss Rush). What this thread is talking about is a simple upscaling of graphics. If it is the same game underneath the paint, why would I enjoy it anymore?

[/div]

As others have said, I think it matters because visuals are part of the overall experience. You say that visuals have absolutely no effect on your enjoyment of a game, which I find hard to believe, but OK. I think differently.

I'm not aiming this at you, but I sometimes think that the people who bang on about graphics not mattering in reaction to people who only care about graphics are incredibly misguided.

The old, "It's not the graphics - it's the gameplay" thing is somewhat incomplete. It really came about when companies started prioritising graphics over everything else - the gameplay suffered, because the development budget was consumed building a better graphics engine. However, there is some middle ground where graphics do add to the experience, which a lot of people seem to want to completely deny.

Let's put it this way - if someone put two versions of a given game in front of me, one of which was rendered in 1024x768 with no AA or AF, and another version that was rendered in 1920x1080 with 8xAA and 16xAF, and are otherwise exactly the same, I'm going to go with the latter because I'll enjoy it more. This is basically what I'm arguing, and people seem to insist that they'd settle for the former.

Edited on by Wheels2050

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scrubbyscum999

85. Posted:

I said it once and I will say it again, I think you guys are getting a little to emotional about this. I have been watching HD forever, I am excited that Nintendo is going HD, it's a big deal. However, it's not like the ultimate jump in gaming. The RE4 example in my opinion explains my point. The only I see is a higher resolution, the graphics others wise look the same (as in number of polygons and stuff like that). Do I like higher resolution? Yes. Is it an improvement? Yes. It's still all it is, higher resolution. In games it's a little different because you still have to make the actual graphics look good. N64 game in 1080p is still an N64 game. If someone isn't excited about higher resolution than fine, there is nothing wrong with that. I am very excited since it will finally completely convert all my screen observing activities to HD, but it didn't bother me when the Wii was in 480p. That was on a 50" HDTV too. You guys are treating this thing like it's the rediscovery of fire. I do feel that this is a great upgrade, but I realize it simply an upgrade in visuals. Obviously visual are important, but I actually do feel that stuff like gameplay is more important. I just don't like seeing people getting all worked up over something that is not as big as they perceive it to be. It's a great advancement, but it isn't everything.

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moomoo

86. Posted:

Based on what I've been reading it looks like everyone has the same opinion on why graphics/art style are important. :/
Now in regards to if better graphics means better version, listen to Wheels2050^. If only the graphics are improved, and the game is otherwise the same, then only positive changes are made and thus the game is made better.
I would like to point out an exception to the HD makes a game better argument. Look at the Silent Hill HD collection. The left side is HD, the right side is original.
Untitled
Granted, its a sloppy port, but by making the resolution go up, the atmosphere was almost entirely lost.
EDIT: sigh looks like the image won't show up. http://www.destructoid.com/elephant/photo-m.phtml?photo_key=2...

Edited on by moomoo

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Odnetnin

87. Posted:

LollipopChoSaw wrote:

Games are audio/visual interactive experiences.

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CowLaunch

88. Posted:

Far more important to me is the graphical style than how sharp it looks; though I suppose the latter helps realise the former.

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Happy_Mask

89. Posted:

It all comes down to personal preference. Some people might say graphics are the most important thing, some might say gameplay. And someone might even argue for story. As long as there is constant improvement, who cares of they make remakes? Many people who enjoyed oot 3d had played it before in some form. But many people hadn't before as well. You dont like it then don't buy it. :P. I would buy a luigis mansion remake if it was compatible with the gcn controller but everyone knows, WiiU is not.

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OptometristLime

90. Posted:

I'm always quick to defend the Nintendo fan base, it's in my best interest being an avid fan myself. But this kind of ignorance is what causes much of the divide between players of varying consoles. Graphics should be a common language, where enhancements are celebrated as potential for immersion increases. With the advent of the Wii U this is the rare opportunity where Nintendo gamers can hold their heads above or at least even with their brethren on Xbox 360 and PS3, confident in the power of their console.
Anyway this is all hyperbole, and secondary to the ability of game designers to create games that are both graphically impressive and fun to play. I think Reggie said it best; when pressed about the graphical shortcomings of the Wii versus Wii U: "Now that excuse is gone [for developers]."

Edited on by OptometristLime

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moomoo

91. Posted:

Happy_Mask wrote:

It all comes down to personal preference. Some people might say graphics are the most important thing, some might say gameplay. And someone might even argue for story. As long as there is constant improvement, who cares of they make remakes? Many people who enjoyed oot 3d had played it before in some form. But many people hadn't before as well. You dont like it then don't buy it. :P. I would buy a luigis mansion remake if it was compatible with the gcn controller but everyone knows, WiiU is not.

[/div]

That's not what the argument is about though. It's about that upscaling the game can make it more enjoyable, more immersive, or help it to age better. Which it can. Look at MGS1 on the PS1 and on the Gamecube. If the game could be played in the exact same fashion with the exact same controller for the exact same price, which version would you pick? I'd choose Gamecube for sure, because it looks better. It'd be hard to pick the PS1 version if everything else is exactly the same.
Now there actually are arguements against playing HD vs. not, the main one being that if you HD-ify a game, then certain problems you didn't see suddenly become present due to a lack of consistency in appearance. In the RE4 HD remake on XBLA/PSN, certain crappy textures became more apparent because other aspects of the game, like Leon's model, looked better. Also, like with the Silent Hill HD remake, certain parts of atmosphere can be lost when you simply upscale a game. Plus, some games just won't be able to show a difference. If Mega Man 2 was upscaled, no one could tell the difference. Yeah, that's a stupid argument, since I haven't seen 2d bit-style games ever get that treatment, but just pointing it out.
EDIT: I would like to say that I'd much rather prefer HD to not. Take Turok on the N64. If that game was upscaled, I'd enjoy it much more because I could see more than 20 ft. in front of me. All they're doing is changing the graphics, but it makes the game more enjoyable. And like many have said before, including the post right above me, better graphics capabilites allow for more kinds of games to be made. I can garuntee that Uncharted, Bioshock, and Crysis would not have been possible on the Wii.

Edited on by moomoo

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GameLord08

92. Posted:

thelastlemming wrote:

I'm always quick to defend the Nintendo fan base, it's in my best interest being an avid fan myself. But this kind of ignorance is what causes much of the divide between players of varying consoles. Graphics should be a common language, where enhancements are celebrated as potential for immersion increases. With the advent of the Wii U this is the rare opportunity where Nintendo gamers can hold their heads above or at least even with their brethren on Xbox 360 and PS3, confident in the power of their console.
Anyway this is all hyperbole, and secondary to the ability of game designers to create games that are both graphically impressive and fun to play. I think Reggie said it best; when pressed about the graphical shortcomings of the Wii versus Wii U: "Now that excuse is gone [for developers]."

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WaveBoy

93. Posted:

Goes back to playing Mega Man 9. :p
anyways, completely agree with Romulx. There really isn't anything further to add. But in the end Videogames ARE about having fun, and yup HD graphics, a nextgen graphical boost and true widescreen definitly can ramp that up to the tee' and can add an incredible sense of immersion visually speaking.

And I guarantee the 720p HD, 'true' widescreen visuals and NextGen nintendo graphics of NSMBWii U will completely open up everybodies eyes to an experience that will pretty much eclipse NSMBWii and offer a far more engrossing and gand experience. The Artdirection/graphics are clearly a bit on the safe side but i'm sure the HD will really give you a whole new look on the series and you'll details and little neat things that will put a big smile on your face.
Even the new beautiful backdrops are soemthing to take note of. Sound, visuals, art direction, GAMEPLAY most importantly, controls ect they all matter.

I'm just waiting for the day the nintendo fully embraces '3D' as the next new big thing on the big screen. that's what i'm truly excited for.
realistic depth perception is just natural unlike looking at a flat image, and like the 3DS has proven can make the experience 10x more exciting and fun because of that very reason alone.

Edited on by WaveBoy

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shingi_70

94. Posted:

Yep I was kind of bored at NSMBU screens seeing as how the wii and 3DS games look la kluster. But seeing those direct feed screens and view made me a believer. Game looks closer to the older games than anything else and the backgrounds look amazing.

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WaveBoy

95. Posted:

I'd also like to throw in a little something about the 'audio' experience. The Wii has always been DPLII, which is alright for those of you who have a 5.1 surround set up like myself and may have used it(although i tend to resort to headphones, because i can't exactly blast my set up or I'll blow up the neighbourhood. :p)

Playing Super Mario Galaxy for example in 5.1 surround sound with the speakers positioned in the right spots, with a good subwoofer and the treble set just right is like you just stepped foot into a virtual audio playground. You can hear crickets and water falls pouring behind you, just everything is far more dynamic as if the Audio/world just entered your living room and this is just generic simulated DPLII we're talking. Now, the wii u has stepped it up to DTS HD Master which is absolutely mind blowing...Then again i think they may have resorted to Dolby digital '6.1', either way I'm completely stoked for this. This is another huge thing that can make an experience like Galaxy far more immersive, fun and outstanding to play. B-)

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Lan

96. Posted:

Now about graphics, I used to think graphics don't mean anything, it's 100% about the gameplay. But I recently built a PC and I've been playing DiRT 2 and 3, and wow, the graphics enhance the gameplay so much. After every race I watch the replay, it's funny because it looks like a real rally car driver driving like an idiot, crashing into everything. It wouldn't be the same if the game looked bad. The graphics just add so much to the experience, in this case anyway.

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DudeSean

97. Posted:

@romulux The wii got shoddy ports because the wii didn't have enough ram. Not because it didn't have a high enough resolution. Again, your comments about games like ghostbusters and red steel, their graphics are based on lack of ram, not resolution. You are right, however, about Miyamoto making Pikmin 3 have a more zoomed out view because of the higher resolution. But I would not consider that to be a change in art style.
Literally speaking, HD can make a game more immersive, but as I have already said, I do not care about that.

Edited on by theblackdragon

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kyuubikid213

98. Posted:

Wheels2050 wrote:

As others have said, I think it matters because visuals are part of the overall experience. You say that visuals have absolutely no effect on your enjoyment of a game, which I find hard to believe, but OK. I think differently.

If a game is made one way and upscaled years later to a higher resolution without fixing any of the "issues" of the original game or adding anything new, it is the same game with a better coat of paint. That's how I see it.

Wheels2050 wrote:

Let's put it this way - if someone put two versions of a given game in front of me, one of which was rendered in 1024x768 with no AA or AF, and another version that was rendered in 1920x1080 with 8xAA and 16xAF, and are otherwise exactly the same, I'm going to go with the latter because I'll enjoy it more. This is basically what I'm arguing, and people seem to insist that they'd settle for the former.

That's where the argument falls apart. You are saying it as though we are getting a brand new game in HD and people like me are saying, "Well, I'd rather have it in 480p." When in actuality, it is an old game being remade with upscaled graphics only, but the new version with newer graphics is somehow superior when the only "fix" was the graphics. If your scenario was true, I would most certainly want the higher resolution copy. In the scenario this thread is posing, however, I don't see why it would make a difference.

I like Resident Evil 4 (yes, I'm using this scenario again, but bear with me). However, I think that not being able to move and shoot is harmful to the Mercenaries mode and the more action-packed parts of the game. Also, I wish there were more characters in the Mercenaries mode. If this game was upscaled to HD and that was all they did, then I wouldn't enjoy it anymore than the original because it was the original...just with better graphics. End of story. If they made the "appropriate changes" and upscaled it in the process, then I would enjoy it more because the gameplay would have improved or there would be more content.

Once again referring to Ocarina of Time, the original version is fun, but I like the 3DS remake more because not only did they improve the graphics, they also added two game modes not in the original, had a new control method (gyro aim) not in the original, and made the game more playable through more difficult parts (the Water Temple).

IN SHORT: If a game was made today and they had two versions accessible to me with one in SD and one in HD for the same price with the same content, I would get the HD version. If it is just an upscaling of a good game from the past that I had a good time with, why would my experience be any better than my first time through? Because the graphics are better? I don't think so...

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grumblebuzzz

99. Posted:

My simple reply on this issue: that would be cool, but too much work to do on Nintendo's part so it won't happen.

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theblackdragon

100. Posted:

I do hope we can all calm down and keep it civil in here, please — the next user(s) to make it personal up in here may find themselves temp-banned. Consider yourselves warned.

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