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Topic: What GC VC games could look like if they were upscaled to 1080p

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kyuubikid213

thelastlemming wrote:

It's more like: I'm outside seeing the world in color with all of its beauty and then noticing that you are standing inside a cardboard box looking at a picture of the world.

I think this is a really bad example. I think what you should have said is "It's like I'm outside viewing the world in all of it's beauty and then I notice that you aren't wearing HD sunglasses."

thelastlemming wrote:

HD has the potential to bring a layer of beauty to your favorite video games, in a similar way to how 3D alters the way you see games in an arresting and meaningful way.

No. 3D enhances the entire depth of the gaming world whereas HD makes it look good. I'll take the epic depth over the HD anyday.

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Aviator

kyuubikid213 wrote:

LollipopChoSaw wrote:

Gaming is an audio/ visual experience.

So, yes, the artistry of games, and the ability for developers to do more with games is directly enhanced by more powerful computers and graphics chips.

Limbo would have been impossible on any console but the PS3 and Xbox 360, for instance, simple as its artistic design is.

[/div]

You want an audio/visual experience? Watch a movie. Games are about the interaction with the visuals and/or music.

So then it is an audio/visual experience is it not.

QUEEN OF SASS

It's like, I just love a cowboy
You know
I'm just like, I just, I know, it's bad
But I'm just like
Can I just like, hang off the back of your horse
And can you go a little faster?!

kyuubikid213

Aviator wrote:

kyuubikid213 wrote:

LollipopChoSaw wrote:

Gaming is an audio/ visual experience.

You want an audio/visual experience? Watch a movie. Games are about the interaction with the visuals and/or music.

So then it is an audio/visual experience is it not.

He didn't mention the interaction with the visuals. Otherwise it is just a movie or a television show.

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I used to own a GBC, PS2, and DS Lite

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Aviator

perhaps you should look up the definition of an experience.

if he were observing the audio/visuals, then yes it would be a movie/tv show
though watching a movie/tv show is still an experience

QUEEN OF SASS

It's like, I just love a cowboy
You know
I'm just like, I just, I know, it's bad
But I'm just like
Can I just like, hang off the back of your horse
And can you go a little faster?!

kyuubikid213

Aviator wrote:

perhaps you should look up the definition of an experience.

if he were observing the audio/visuals, then yes it would be a movie/tv show
though watching a movie/tv show is still an experience

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_game
"A video game is an electronic game that involves human interaction with a user interface to generate visual feedback on a video device."
"Video games typically use additional means of providing interactivity and information to the player. Audio is almost universal, using sound reproduction devices, such as speakers and headphones."

No interaction, no game.

I own a PS1, GBA, GBA SP, Wii (GCN), 360, 3DS, PC (Laptop), Wii U, and PS4.
I used to own a GBC, PS2, and DS Lite

I'm on YouTube.

I promise to not derail threads. Request from theblackdragon

I pro...

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Wheels2050

kyuubikid213 wrote:

LollipopChoSaw wrote:

Gaming is an audio/ visual experience.

So, yes, the artistry of games, and the ability for developers to do more with games is directly enhanced by more powerful computers and graphics chips.

Limbo would have been impossible on any console but the PS3 and Xbox 360, for instance, simple as its artistic design is.

[/div]

You want an audio/visual experience? Watch a movie. Games are about the interaction with the visuals and/or music.

I still don't think you understand where I'm coming from on this one... I'm not saying that downscaling a game like Limbo to 480p would make it better. I'm talking about upscaling GameCube games. If you took Metroid Prime and upscaled the graphics to 1080i, why would I enjoy that more than the original version? It's the same game with the same enemies, the same power-ups, the same bosses, the same story, the same world, and the same Samus. Simply upscaling to 1080i wouldn't improve anything but the look of the game.

And I know that developers can do more with a game if it has better technology, but it shows how skilled they are in art direction if they can make games look great even in a lower resolution. Take Xenoblade Chronicles for example. 480p and beautiful. Twilight Princess? Masterful artwork and engaging scenery. Monster Hunter Tri? Skyward Sword? Resident Evil 4? Super Smash Bros. Brawl? These are just a few great looking Wii games that are in 480p and what they were able to pull off in terms of graphics and overall content is incredible. And once again, if these games were just upscaled to 1080i, why would that make them any more enjoyable than they were in 480p?

So are you saying that if you took a given game and played it with its original graphics, and then played it with far improved graphics, you would find zero difference?

I find that hard to believe. I've been playing games for almost 20 years, so I'm no stranger to older graphics, and most of my favourite gaming experiences are late 90s PC games, which I love to death. However, I can't deny I wouldn't enjoy playing them with better graphics, simply because that would improve my immersion.

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GameLord08

A video-game is an interactive audio/visual experience. When either three of these aspects become insignificant, the game itself starts to become insignificant.

Case closed.

GameLord08

Happy_Mask

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[16:08] Reala: what ljm does for cash is ljm's business
[16:08] LordJumpMad: Gotta look good my my next game u_u

Bankai

kyuubikid213 wrote:

Aviator wrote:

perhaps you should look up the definition of an experience.

if he were observing the audio/visuals, then yes it would be a movie/tv show
though watching a movie/tv show is still an experience

[/div]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_game
"A video game is an electronic game that involves human interaction with a user interface to generate visual feedback on a video device."
"Video games typically use additional means of providing interactivity and information to the player. Audio is almost universal, using sound reproduction devices, such as speakers and headphones."

No interaction, no game.

I'm petty sure I made it as clear as humanly possible that I consider it silly to try and break a game down into components like Graphics, Gameplay, Audio. We are not talking about Lego blocks here.

Even Gamelord agrees with me on this one - games are an interactive audio/ visual experience. If any three of those components are crap, the game is crap. End of story.

Hokori

Wait wait wait, so let me get this straight, the same people who complained about Nintendo remaking games with better graphics for 3DS/WiiU are the same people who say a graphics increase will make the game better?

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kyuubikid213

@Wheels2050 If the only difference was upscaled graphics, then why would it matter? Im not saying HD doesn't have it's good moments, I'm just saying that a good game is a good game whether it is in HD or not. And if they upscaled a good game to HD, then it'd be the same good game with improved graphics.

Now this is only my opinion, but remaking one of my favorite games in HD and not fixing any of the flaws won't make me enjoy it anymore.

I own Legend of Zelda Ocarina of Time 3D. This is an example of a game that upscales graphics and improves gameplay to make me enjoy it more. I did play the original and the improved graphics make it look good, but I would still love the game just the same as the original if it had the same N64 graphics. What they did to make me enjoy it more overall is improve certain aspects of the actual game like using the Iron Boots, aiming with the gyro controls, adding in little tips to help you throughout the game (especially the Water Temple), and add new game modes (Master Quest and Boss Rush). What this thread is talking about is a simple upscaling of graphics. If it is the same game underneath the paint, why would I enjoy it anymore?

I own a PS1, GBA, GBA SP, Wii (GCN), 360, 3DS, PC (Laptop), Wii U, and PS4.
I used to own a GBC, PS2, and DS Lite

I'm on YouTube.

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I pro...

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GameLord08

LordOtakWiiU wrote:

Wait wait wait, so let me get this straight, the same people who complained about Nintendo remaking games with better graphics for 3DS/WiiU are the same people who say a graphics increase will make the game better?

Otaku, if you can't represent the different opinion of a majority correctly, then don't represent it at all.

As I said before, graphics, audio and gameplay are the three main components that define a game, and each are as equally important as each other. Actually, throw out audio - we're not debating on that right now. Graphics and gameplay are each as equally important as each other; if you don't care for one or the other, then you don't care for the true value you could get in the game when it surpasses into its full potential. They are not separate aspects of a game; they are hamornised into the game as one solid experience. So, basically, what is being said is that you can't really truly say you care for gameplay, and don't give a flying toss about graphics; that's a half-*rsed statement, and one that would've countered the advancement of video-games and technology were it believable, in my opinion.

When a remake of a game comes out, and only one aspect of the game is changed (which in this case we're debating, is graphics), then exactly what's the use of that remake? The graphics may provide a better visual experience, but truly, it's the same game, only all dolled up. And even we don't like that. The same applies vice-versa for gameplay as well - if that changes, and the graphics stay the same, we might as well just stick with what we have; it's the same game, only different control experiences. Not very intriguing.

Whereas, when it comes to potentially new games and experiences, then changes of graphics are a vital and appreciated addition - it instantly provides the gateway to a more immersive and realistic experience over its past renditions, as well as providing a fresh way to play; boom, it's a bigger and better game. Are you going to tell me that, had this concept hadn't been held on a high pedestal by the industry, we would be where we are today? In every successful console generation, we see significantly different aspects over its past counterparts, and that is because no aspect of a game, graphics/gameplay/audio, was deemed to insignificant to upgrade and improve on. None of them were left behind, and that is why we have the video-game experiences we have today; every single aspect of a video-game was considered important, no matter what any certain majority may have thought against them. They mattered to the right people. And this, all you anti-graphic evolution people, is why we disagree with your points of view.

GameLord08

Hokori

So what version of So crazy chicken pirates 3D will be a ton better then Crazy Chicken Pirates for DSiWare?
Also Famitsu rated the HD version of MGS PW a 39/40 and the PSP one 40/40

Edited on by Hokori

Digitaloggery
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shingi_70

Well the game was made for portable use. The HD review complained about the stuff that while suited for a portable system didn't fit an HD one. That was the biggest complaint in most reviews. That doesn't mean HD as a format is worse because its not.

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GameLord08

LordOtakWiiU wrote:

So what version of So crazy chicken pirates 3D will be a ton better then Crazy Chicken Pirates for DSiWare?
Also Famitsu rated the HD version of MGS PW a 39/40 and the PSP one 40/40

Your skills of comprehension are devastatingly poor. Did you, or did you not see my opinion on remakes of games where graphics alone were all that was different? You just completely opposed what I said about that.

GameLord08

Wheels2050

kyuubikid213 wrote:

@Wheels2050 If the only difference was upscaled graphics, then why would it matter? Im not saying HD doesn't have it's good moments, I'm just saying that a good game is a good game whether it is in HD or not. And if they upscaled a good game to HD, then it'd be the same good game with improved graphics.

Now this is only my opinion, but remaking one of my favorite games in HD and not fixing any of the flaws won't make me enjoy it anymore.

I own Legend of Zelda Ocarina of Time 3D. This is an example of a game that upscales graphics and improves gameplay to make me enjoy it more. I did play the original and the improved graphics make it look good, but I would still love the game just the same as the original if it had the same N64 graphics. What they did to make me enjoy it more overall is improve certain aspects of the actual game like using the Iron Boots, aiming with the gyro controls, adding in little tips to help you throughout the game (especially the Water Temple), and add new game modes (Master Quest and Boss Rush). What this thread is talking about is a simple upscaling of graphics. If it is the same game underneath the paint, why would I enjoy it anymore?

[/div]

As others have said, I think it matters because visuals are part of the overall experience. You say that visuals have absolutely no effect on your enjoyment of a game, which I find hard to believe, but OK. I think differently.

I'm not aiming this at you, but I sometimes think that the people who bang on about graphics not mattering in reaction to people who only care about graphics are incredibly misguided.

The old, "It's not the graphics - it's the gameplay" thing is somewhat incomplete. It really came about when companies started prioritising graphics over everything else - the gameplay suffered, because the development budget was consumed building a better graphics engine. However, there is some middle ground where graphics do add to the experience, which a lot of people seem to want to completely deny.

Let's put it this way - if someone put two versions of a given game in front of me, one of which was rendered in 1024x768 with no AA or AF, and another version that was rendered in 1920x1080 with 8xAA and 16xAF, and are otherwise exactly the same, I'm going to go with the latter because I'll enjoy it more. This is basically what I'm arguing, and people seem to insist that they'd settle for the former.

Edited on by Wheels2050

I used to have a blog link here. I'll put it back up when the blog has something to read.

scrubbyscum999

I said it once and I will say it again, I think you guys are getting a little to emotional about this. I have been watching HD forever, I am excited that Nintendo is going HD, it's a big deal. However, it's not like the ultimate jump in gaming. The RE4 example in my opinion explains my point. The only I see is a higher resolution, the graphics others wise look the same (as in number of polygons and stuff like that). Do I like higher resolution? Yes. Is it an improvement? Yes. It's still all it is, higher resolution. In games it's a little different because you still have to make the actual graphics look good. N64 game in 1080p is still an N64 game. If someone isn't excited about higher resolution than fine, there is nothing wrong with that. I am very excited since it will finally completely convert all my screen observing activities to HD, but it didn't bother me when the Wii was in 480p. That was on a 50" HDTV too. You guys are treating this thing like it's the rediscovery of fire. I do feel that this is a great upgrade, but I realize it simply an upgrade in visuals. Obviously visual are important, but I actually do feel that stuff like gameplay is more important. I just don't like seeing people getting all worked up over something that is not as big as they perceive it to be. It's a great advancement, but it isn't everything.

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moomoo

Based on what I've been reading it looks like everyone has the same opinion on why graphics/art style are important. :/
Now in regards to if better graphics means better version, listen to Wheels2050^. If only the graphics are improved, and the game is otherwise the same, then only positive changes are made and thus the game is made better.
I would like to point out an exception to the HD makes a game better argument. Look at the Silent Hill HD collection. The left side is HD, the right side is original.
Untitled
Granted, its a sloppy port, but by making the resolution go up, the atmosphere was almost entirely lost.
EDIT: sigh looks like the image won't show up. http://www.destructoid.com/elephant/photo-m.phtml?photo_key=2...

Edited on by moomoo

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