Topic: Does anyone else feel this way about Deus Ex

Really, someone's love of more archaic game mechanics is that off-putting to you?

Which is fine but that doesn't invalidate criticism.

And no I don't believe it was unintentionally unfair. It was actually a fairly well made, terrible game. But half of its fans don't actually realize this, and that's a problem.

Also I think most of you missed the point of my post that I was just burying people for having terrible justifications for why a game being enjoyable is a bad thing. There's really nothing I hate more than blatantly garbage justifications because people are too insecure to acknowledge a problem in a thing they like.

Believe me, I can find flaws in most of the games I actually love. I'm an adventure game fan you see....

Certain people like having their hands held during game time - the COD generation, if you will. Which is fine, I'm just so glad I'm not part of it. What's not fine is that they are mass market and have been for many years, so all AAA games are aimed for those and simplified, streamlined, dumbed down, call it what you will, as a result. Those that streamline themselves too much miss the core gamers, whilst those that don't do it enough miss the mass market.

Which for me is desperately sad, if it wasn't for the PC gaming scene. I can't speak highly enough of Steam Greenlight, games that are chasing small profits by aiming for only the most elitist gamers.

Oh, no, of course not. What kind of idiot do you take me for? Now that's just insulting. No, it's because I've seen his argument a thousand times, and I know that the people who say those things have nothing of value to offer and certainly aren't worth my time.

Well that got heated rather quickly.

The over defense of modern game design from the younger generation is rather fascinating.

How'd we get from this

To this thread now?

Yeah to be fair I want to avoid defending modern game design as a thing, and of course the evolution/deevolution of the game has yet to be established in anything more than anecdotal claims.

I just can't stand the misguided notion that game designers have some how evolved the medium to a point where the classics are effectively extinct. The game playing mainstream likes to emulate the experience of playing the classics, possibly condemning to obscurity the source material in the process.

_{reading a few posts back, I'm realizing this topic was one to avoid, entirely...}

I hope you're not talking about me. Most of the people I bash are in fact creepily obsessed with old school gaming ideas even if they were utterly broken. And I'm one of the only people that buries COD by even mentioning level design (or by having actual reasons for that matter) so...yeah...

Like 99% of the time, if your opinion isn't extreme and/or stupid, I'm probably not talking about you.

Though your point is ultimately meaningless regardless because "modern game design" and younger generation" are terms you could replace with a lot of things and it would still be true

Name me some AAA classics from the last 5 years. Try and be objective about it if you can, consider everything when you do so, including the likes of AI, balance, challenge etc.

Because two generally terrible communities have collided: FPS community and retro gaming community. It was an accident waiting to happen.

(no offense intended to FPS or retro fans who aren't insane)

Maybe ya'll need to take Deus out for dinner and a movie, get to know it better... Let them feelings grow with time

Bioshock Infinite
Skyrim
XCOM Enemy Unknown
Dark Souls
Street Fighter IV
Deus Ex: Human Revolution

EDIT: To quantify my POV, I've been playing video games since 1989.

Why should I do that, I have nothing more to offer than you can find for yourself on this website or many others. I was suggesting that classic games (from bygone eras, not talking about AAA games or whatever) have something unique to offer, a timeless quality if you will. But I was not saying that game design has failed to evolve or that "modern" games will be swept away more quickly from memory by time. It's simply a new generation, and for the most part gamers stand to benefit.

Shouldn't more than 5 years pass by before declaring something a 'classic'?

You didn't need to quantify, or rather 'qualify' your opinion. I'm not a fan of that. I just wanted to see what you regard as classics.

Not a bad list, I personally would take issue with Deus Ex for reasons already stated, perhaps Skyrim for the same reasons (smoother to play, but Morrowind had it's own charms and exceeded Skyrim in some aspects) whereas I think it's a close call between Bioshock Infinite and the original Bioshock.

What I don't understand however is the automatic assumption that modern mechanics are smoother, easier and therefore better. I was pretty sure I played some amazing games growing up that had no such luxuries - whether time has been kind to them or not surely doesn't matter? It's easy to pee down on Ocarina of Time now because in many aspects it hasn't aged well - but I refuse to accept that game is no longer a 'great' game or that it's greatness should be diminished because we have 'moved on' mechanically.

IS there anyone out there that has played the original Deus Ex and think HR is better?

Xenoblade Chronicles
Red Dead Redemption
Pikmin 3
Super Mario Galaxy 2
Uncharted 2
Batman Arkham Asylum
Batman Arkham City
Mortal Kombat
Ultra Street Fighter 4
Portal 2 and plenty more.

I never got into Morrowind I did appreciate that it had a user interface designed for a PC however.

I liked Oblivion and the way it worked seemed just right for me. (With mouse and keyboard).

Skyrim felt like an absolute mess with either a controller or mouse and keyboard.

I think the only genre that has it right now with "something for everybody" that people keep on going on about is the one that has stuff like Crusader Kings 2 in it. Simplest to most complicated it has something for everybody everything is not lowest common denominator.

Which is exactly what I said.

But I was not saying that game design has failed to evolve or that "modern" games will be swept away more quickly from memory by time. It's simply a new generation, and for the most part gamers stand to benefit.

I never said that either. What I'm taking issue with is, again, the automatic assumption that games have evolved for the better. So the camera moves with more freedom, so we have QTE's instead of clunky combat, so there are extra polygons to fearsome creatures, so what?! These things make games better to play NOT better games.