These things make games better to play NOT better games.
What is this I don't even.
I think he meant "more accessible to play" or "easier to play"(I think "more accessible" fits in good for that to make sense)
goodbyes are a sad part of life but for every end there's a new beggining so one must never stop looking forward to the next dawn
now working at IBM as helpdesk analyst my Backloggery
3DS Friend Code: 3995-7085-4333 | Nintendo Network ID: GustavoSF
But I was not saying that game design has failed to evolve or that "modern" games will be swept away more quickly from memory by time. It's simply a new generation, and for the most part gamers stand to benefit.
I never said that either. What I'm taking issue with is, again, the automatic assumption that games have evolved for the better. So the camera moves with more freedom, so we have QTE's instead of clunky combat, so there are extra polygons to fearsome creatures, so what?! These things make games better to play NOT better games.
But, I already made the opposing claim, which I expected more agreement upon. When I talk about "classics" I mean that simply: these are games that are still regarded fondly (due to their timeless elements) by generations on both sides of the gap. Modern games of any caliber would be disqualified according to that description, but not indefinitely; time will tell.
I just can't stand the misguided notion that game designers have some how evolved the medium to a point where the classics are effectively extinct.
Name me some AAA classics from the last 5 years. Try and be objective about it if you can, consider everything when you do so, including the likes of AI, balance, challenge etc.
I'm trying to underscore the fact that we are saying the same thing.
These things make games better to play NOT better games.
What is this I don't even.
I think he meant "more accessible to play" or "easier to play"(I think "more accessible" fits in good for that to make sense)
Yeah, but a game that is more accessible is almost invariably a better game. Unless you're going for hipster cred, there's nothing really good about a flawed, clunky game design that turns off its potential audience. Any of the games that we now regard as classics don't have off-putting mechanics anyway. Any game that we revere today had simple, accessible gameplay that anyone could pick up and have a lot of fun with. Even if they were difficult games, they were difficult because of good, challenging level design, not because they were broken.
There are games still being made today that go by this philosophy as well. Simple, accessible gameplay does not make a bad game at all. You don't want 12 buttons that do 40 things, random difficulty spikes, or unfair enemy AI (eg. constant AoE spam that keeps you pinned to the ground and unable to respond). These all make games harder, but not in a good way. Both new games and old games are good when they are accessible AND challenging.
So Anakin kneels before Monster Mash and pledges his loyalty to the graveyard smash.
These things make games better to play NOT better games.
What is this I don't even.
I think he meant "more accessible to play" or "easier to play"(I think "more accessible" fits in good for that to make sense)
Yeah, but a game that is more accessible is almost invariably a better game. Unless you're going for hipster cred, there's nothing really good about a flawed, clunky game design that turns off its potential audience. Any of the games that we now regard as classics don't have off-putting mechanics anyway. Any game that we revere today had simple, accessible gameplay that anyone could pick up and have a lot of fun with. Even if they were difficult games, they were difficult because of good, challenging level design, not because they were broken.
There are games still being made today that go by this philosophy as well. Simple, accessible gameplay does not make a bad game at all. You don't want 12 buttons that do 40 things, random difficulty spikes, or unfair enemy AI (eg. constant AoE spam that keeps you pinned to the ground and unable to respond). These all make games harder, but not in a good way. Both new games and old games are good when they are accessible AND challenging.
I agree with you, was just explaining what he probably meant.
but just to state my personal point of view in this, I think old games(that were good, disconsider bad ones) had more style and personality compared to most good games nowadays (most, not all) are either realistic or some sort of unchanging style.
music is another thing, now many games just slap in orchestrated music and that's it. before they had very little resources and the systems couldn't handle fancy music so they had to get creative if they wanted something that sounded good.
but the game design itself(ignoring artstyle and music) has been getting better as many flaws from the past are getting removed and many small neat features are getting added so there's less frustration with the controls.
though I can't say anything about deus ex since I never played it
goodbyes are a sad part of life but for every end there's a new beggining so one must never stop looking forward to the next dawn
now working at IBM as helpdesk analyst my Backloggery
3DS Friend Code: 3995-7085-4333 | Nintendo Network ID: GustavoSF
Yeah, but a game that is more accessible is almost invariably a better game.
That makes me want to vomit and/or cry. Exactly the reason so many great series have died, or why studio's have closed, jobs have been lost, genres have been dumbed down or indeed difficulty levels of games have weakened. There is absolutely nothing good about that statement you just made.
Yeah, but a game that is more accessible is almost invariably a better game.
That makes me want to vomit and/or cry. Exactly the reason so many great series have died, or why studio's have closed, jobs have been lost, genres have been dumbed down or indeed difficulty levels of games have weakened. There is absolutely nothing good about that statement you just made.
it's really relative, if the content is still good accessibility makes it better.
the danger lies when other parts of the design have their quality sacrificed just to make it more accessible...
"accessibility has nothing to do with it" is essentially a wrong statement, MH3U is a perfect example as it is a single game that has two version with different "accessibilities" in gameplay, even ignoring the graphics and online the WiiU version is better compared to the 3DS one because the controls are more accessible, it's the exact same game(once again if you ignore that the WiiU version is the only one with online and the difference in graphics) but even with the complications of playing on the 3DS(especially without CPP) both versions are still good, even though anyone can see which one is better
basically, more accessible DOES mean "better game"(that it would have been otherwise) but "better game" doesn't always mean "good game". it's actually a very common mistake people make, you can't really compare two different games with different content like this(you can do that but not in this specific case), this exact comparison must be made between different versions of the same game or other factors will make the results unreliable
goodbyes are a sad part of life but for every end there's a new beggining so one must never stop looking forward to the next dawn
now working at IBM as helpdesk analyst my Backloggery
3DS Friend Code: 3995-7085-4333 | Nintendo Network ID: GustavoSF
Yeah, but a game that is more accessible is almost invariably a better game.
That makes me want to vomit and/or cry. Exactly the reason so many great series have died, or why studio's have closed, jobs have been lost, genres have been dumbed down or indeed difficulty levels of games have weakened. There is absolutely nothing good about that statement you just made.
'I used to be with 'it', then they changed what 'it' was. Now what I'm with isn't 'it', and what's 'it' is weird and scary to me. It'll happen to you too.' - Abe Simpson
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You and him are the most ridiculous people on this forum, bar none.
What you and him have essentially said in this thread from start to finish is that no older games can ever be deemed good, successful, or worthy of anyone's time. The only games worth playing are the ones that are polished and perfected in every single way. The very idea that games were at some point experimenting with things, taking risks with limited technology and assets, is nothing more than that, an experimentation, because according to you the real games and the real reasons for games are right here in recent history. Forefathers paving the way for truly supreme games to come out in the future and then burying the remnants deep underground never to be seen or regarded to ever again. You have no idea how ridiculous a notion that is - imagine if your theory applied to cars - classic cars, Jaguar's, Mercs etc, would have no place, just give me a KIA!
And if, I somehow doubt, you didn't mean anything of the sort, we can put that down to your general intellects being so insufficient that you cannot explain yourselves properly - which, I'm sure isn't a coincidence, could be linked to the geographical locations of yourselves. Which is a shame, since most people in your respective places are actually quite impressive on here.
You and him are the most ridiculous people on this forum, bar none.
What you and him have essentially said in this thread from start to finish is that no older games can ever be deemed good, successful, or worthy of anyone's time. The only games worth playing are the ones that are polished and perfected in every single way. The very idea that games were at some point experimenting with things, taking risks with limited technology and assets, is nothing more than that, an experimentation, because according to you the real games and the real reasons for games are right here in recent history. Forefathers paving the way for truly supreme games to come out in the future and then burying the remnants deep underground never to be seen or regarded to ever again. You have no idea how ridiculous a notion that is - imagine if your theory applied to cars - classic cars, Jaguar's, Mercs etc, would have no place, just give me a KIA!
And if, I somehow doubt, you didn't mean anything of the sort, we can put that down to your general intellects being so insufficient that you cannot explain yourselves properly - which, I'm sure isn't a coincidence, could be linked to the geographical locations of yourselves. Which is a shame, since most people in your respective places are actually quite impressive on here.
Wow, you take the most extreme assumption from their posts. Never once did I take away from what they said as the original games were bad in their own right just better for the update or streamlining.
I agree, if you like the original say Resident Evil and the way it controls more power to ya but making the controls better is better for most everyone.
John 8:7 He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone.
MERG said:
If I was only ever able to have Monster Hunter and EO games in the future, I would be a happy man.
Take something like Wizardry 8 - its complicated but it isn't broken simplifying it would make it not as good but we will never get a game like that with say Skyrim quality graphics.
Tropical Freeze is the only Wii U Platformer with anything close to a good difficulty curve. (I think they could have made it a bit harder (Rare did second time around which was absolutely the right choice) but at least it doesn't waste half the game for anybody who has ever played a platformer before which seems to be the fashion).
Stuff like assisted aiming it is not better controls it is like cheating.
“30fps Is Not a Good Artistic Decision, It's a Failure”
Freedom of the press is for those who happen to own one.
I somehow doubt, you didn't mean anything of the sort, we can put that down to your general intellects being so insufficient that you cannot explain yourselves properly - which, I'm sure isn't a coincidence, could be linked to the geographical locations of yourselves. Which is a shame, since most people in your respective places are actually quite impressive on here.
All this time I thought we were speaking the same language of mutual game enthusiasm. Next time I'll just flash my ID card and be deported from this insipid chatter.
Take something like Wizardry 8 - its complicated but it isn't broken simplifying it would make it not as good but we will never get a game like that with say Skyrim quality graphics.
Tropical Freeze is the only Wii U Platformer with anything close to a good difficulty curve. (I think they could have made it a bit harder (Rare did second time around which was absolutely the right choice) but at least it doesn't waste half the game for anybody who has ever played a platformer before which seems to be the fashion).
Stuff like assisted aiming it is not better controls it is like cheating.
I can't help but agree on the assisted aiming thing. When I found out that Goldeneye had this after I was not using it for like 100 hours I was ticked. The problem was I didn't want to use it but it was hard to keep up with the better players that did so I finally reluctantly turned the option on.
Take something like Wizardry 8 - its complicated but it isn't broken simplifying it would make it not as good but we will never get a game like that with say Skyrim quality graphics.
Tropical Freeze is the only Wii U Platformer with anything close to a good difficulty curve. (I think they could have made it a bit harder (Rare did second time around which was absolutely the right choice) but at least it doesn't waste half the game for anybody who has ever played a platformer before which seems to be the fashion).
Stuff like assisted aiming it is not better controls it is like cheating.
I can't help but agree on the assisted aiming thing. When I found out that Goldeneye had this after I was not using it for like 100 hours I was ticked. The problem was I didn't want to use it but it was hard to keep up with the better players that did so I finally reluctantly turned the option on.
aim assist is really(some sort of) cheating, it at the very least shouldn't be allowed for online play. but it doesn't really matter when it's for playing alone you can do whatever you want when playing by yourself, it won't/shouldn't bother the others.
goodbyes are a sad part of life but for every end there's a new beggining so one must never stop looking forward to the next dawn
now working at IBM as helpdesk analyst my Backloggery
3DS Friend Code: 3995-7085-4333 | Nintendo Network ID: GustavoSF
Take something like Wizardry 8 - its complicated but it isn't broken simplifying it would make it not as good but we will never get a game like that with say Skyrim quality graphics.
Tropical Freeze is the only Wii U Platformer with anything close to a good difficulty curve. (I think they could have made it a bit harder (Rare did second time around which was absolutely the right choice) but at least it doesn't waste half the game for anybody who has ever played a platformer before which seems to be the fashion).
Stuff like assisted aiming it is not better controls it is like cheating.
I can't help but agree on the assisted aiming thing. When I found out that Goldeneye had this after I was not using it for like 100 hours I was ticked. The problem was I didn't want to use it but it was hard to keep up with the better players that did so I finally reluctantly turned the option on.
aim assist is really(some sort of) cheating, it at the very least shouldn't be allowed for online play. but it doesn't really matter when it's for playing alone you can do whatever you want when playing by yourself, it won't/shouldn't bother the others.
When I found out the best players in the game were using this online I created a topic on Gamefaqs calling all the best players that used this cheaters. It turned out to be one other the biggest topics on the Goldeneye forums ever. To say it caused quite a stir would be an understatement. You'd be surprised how many people defended the use of it as it's in the game so why not use every advantage you can. These were some fun times for sure!
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