Sony already announced that the system would be sold in 2 models -- WiFi-only and 3G -- so it's really a premium upgrade-option, rather than something essential.
Sony already announced that the system would be sold in 2 models -- WiFi-only and 3G -- so it's really a premium upgrade-option, rather than something essential.
I did not know that. Thanks for the info bud.
Seems kinda odd that they'd announce 3G as a big upgrade and yet make it optional. Either way, it's kinda a smart move
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@lz: that way you can have it if you want it, and if you don't, you don't -- it kinda falls in line with them offering all the different packages with the PS3 regarding internal storage and stuff, that they would want to give people the option. I believe the Kindle and the iPad both sell 3G/WiFi and WiFi-only models too, so they're not the only ones offering that kind of thing. :3
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@lz They're probably making 3G optional to offer a cheaper model. Adding the 3G capability is expensive, plus there will probably be a data plan attached as well. For those who don't want to drop the extra $$ and are ok with Wifi, that model is available.
@Waltz I don't know about Europe, but I don't think a lot of the Japanese-style dating games are released in the US (at least not the real "adult" ones). The one's that are would be "niche" titles anyways. While they can rely on the adult market in Japan with stuff like that, it's shooters that seem to carry the "adult" market here. Can't speak to Europe, obviously. I think Sony will continue to do well in Japan, but Japanese gaming companies in general are having trouble competing in US markets right now (with the exception of Nintendo).
@Holy Mackeral As for me, I'm going to hold out for the NGP Color.
I am way too lazy to think of something clever. My Backloggery
Final Fantasy. Don't forget Final Fantasy. I would also say DQ, but that series seems to be moving back onto Nintendo platforms
DQ goes to whatever platform has the greatest traction, traditionally. I would expect that to be 3DS, but if somehow NGP hits with a bang who knows?
In fact, perhaps DQXI will be iPhone/ iPad.
@Waltz I don't know about Europe, but I don't think a lot of the Japanese-style dating games are released in the US (at least not the real "adult" ones). The one's that are would be "niche" titles anyways. While they can rely on the adult market in Japan with stuff like that, it's shooters that seem to carry the "adult" market here. Can't speak to Europe, obviously. I think Sony will continue to do well in Japan, but Japanese gaming companies in general are having trouble competing in US markets right now (with the exception of Nintendo).
Oh yeah, for sure. "Adult" games are pretty much relegated to Japan. I probably should have explained better, but what I was saying is the Xbox 360 isn't "failing" as badly as the numbers suggest in Japan. It's not winning anything, but despite Microsoft's distaste for the weird stuff the Xbox attracts in Japan, it's actually carving them out a hell of a niche, with a very strong loyalty from the... men... that buy these games.
Microsoft basically has an entirely different approach to Xbox 360 over there than it does out west.
The PSP gets a lot of it as well (surprising, given the PSP's popularity over there), and I think the NGP might struggle a little bit with getting children on-board because of this reputation.
As for Japanese companies struggling in the west... I tend to feel that's and overinflated "problem." It's not in a heyday right now, but Sony's doing very well (including its software publishing arm), Square Enix is fine (despite taking a hit in recent financials, there's a bunch of mitigating factors to dismiss that), and some of the more niche publishers are coping with the poor economic climate in Japan pretty well - Marvellous has somehow returned to profit, last time I checked, and Tecmo Koei is still a growing company.
This whole "Japanese games industry is in trouble!" media hysteria is really down to two things - 1) The incorrect assumption that because no game has sold as well as Call of Duty, than Japanese games have not had a blockbuster for a while (Nintendo regularly produces blockbusters, FFXIII was wildly popular despite being critically panned, the Japanese market itself has a bunch of blockbusters that are "failures" over here.)
2) a nutjob, dissatisfied Capcom senior whinging about how he hasn't got the freedom to do whatever he likes. Capcom's in trouble, yes, but that's one company.
@TokyoRed: if that pricepoint actually ends up coming true, I'm guessing that Sony will be taking a HUGE loss on every unit sold. I doubt it will be that cheap...
@TokyoRed: if that pricepoint actually ends up coming true, I'm guessing that Sony will be taking a HUGE loss on every unit sold. I doubt it will be that cheap...
It's possible though. Console manufacturers don't much care about making money on the hardware - the margin's too small to bother.
The money is to be made in licensing fees - and the greater the install base, the greater the licensing fee can be. So Sony has a vested interest in getting those things out as much, and as quickly as possible, and making back the loss on hardware on software licenses.
@TokyoRed: if that pricepoint actually ends up coming true, I'm guessing that Sony will be taking a HUGE loss on every unit sold. I doubt it will be that cheap...
It's possible though. Console manufacturers don't much care about making money on the hardware - the margin's too small to bother.
The money is to be made in licensing fees - and the greater the install base, the greater the licensing fee can be...
I agree WaltzElf. I think that Sony PlayStation will try to have the biggest install base ever with the Sony NGP. A price tag of $299.99 would be perfect in making that happen to.
Its a massive read, and looks like a complete ngp fanboy. but its just my personal opinion on this matter. feel free to argue with me. or say that i'm a total turd. but atleast describe what exactly you didn't liked about it.
People should stop talking about who innovated this or who innovated that. You would be shocked on how much either did innovated themselfs.
if you call 2 screens + a touchscreen innovation by nintendo? you are deadly wrong. There where already tons of products featuring the same kind of products. Everything that gets made = inspired by something els. Gets combined or recreated or evolves etc.
Just as recently got announced, that streetpass idea came from a kid that wanted to play dragon quest 9, but didn't wanted to put that function on while gaming. So they created streetpass. Sony got a gps version of it called live area. that locates with gps where you are etc, and with 3G transfers data through. Who invented streetpass? nintendo? Sony? Hell the whole concept is already findable in tons of products. Its just adjusted version for a gaming console. Because at the end dragon quest designers that basically created it, got probably inspired by something els.
Everything gets made out of inspiration etc.
Otherwise you could argue, that who was the first? that made the chip to go portable at all?. who was first that made the cells for the screens? exactly. its all already known tech combined together.
But what nintendo really misses this generation with handhelds = innovation. The 3D hype will lose ground when people actually experienced it longer then 1-2 days of gaming. when people get 3D camera's at home/ on there mobiles / on there laptops etc.
You can argue what you want on this point. but from what i want = a product. If i get a streetpass 2 function. hell yea. Why would i go for a streetpass 1 function? ( hell i can call 20 things already from nintendo what they didn't invent themselfs ). they didn't even invented the 3D screen to start with. While oled screen comes from sony himself. ( whats the point? there is non.)
I find GPS + 3G ( optional ofcourse ) + mega sharp 5 inch screen + dam sharp view angle and no ms + solid online experience + touchscreen on the main screen + 2x control ontop of it + 2x analog + a trackpad ( that fixes lack of aditional buttons / or removes the blocking from the complete main screen while touching the screen / can be combined with front one ) just a dam worth device. Then i'm not talking about the amazing resolution or graphical solution ontop of it.
ps1/ps2/ android games + psp library on ps suite. and ofcourse the additional psp games + ps3 ports. and probably a snes/gba/ds/n64 emulator ontop of it.
The point is. people choose for the NGP, Because one of those factors = ( if not software ) what they want. Lets not forget that the DS basically is a graphical pimped up + 3D handheld version. that lacks major features that for example mobiles at this date got. Tons of company's jump towards mobile platforms atm. Inclusive the NGP. The software library from android devices will add a ton of content towards fast simplistic fun games.
But the major point for people to buy a NGP = Graphics, Screen, 2x joysticks, touchscreen. The other stuff just makes it more appealing.
There is atm nothing that the NGP couldn't do that the 3DS has. ( besides 3D ) , but NGP has a 2D oled screen. Its just what you prefer really.
Hell you could even turn the ngp on its side, emulate for example ds on it with 2x screens ontop of eachother, you still end up with 1 analog stick and 4x right buttons. while having 2x buttons on the back if not more for l+r.
People automatically aspect that 3DS will be a hot item, nintendo does too. But nintendo did go wrong on major points that i actually wouldn't aspect from them to do.
They chosed relative cheap parts, but the price still hits 250 euro there battery life time got sacrificed massively there touchscreen isn't on the main screen anymore, and can only be used with 1 input ontop of it instead of 2 ( dunno how its called ). It lacks extra features, AR is already old as hell. everybody has it on there iphones/mobiles or even the PSP. Online department is still a 10 years old solution the 3D controls are lackbusting. ( specially after psp, they should realise that 3D games with 1 stick isn't funny. ) Check re videos for example. Lack on speed will show itself against iphone 6. I wouldn't be suprised if the graphical level of iphones will exceed 3DS this year already. As a multitasking device.
The DS was interesting, because it attracted tons of fun games towards it. the touchscreen was a good input for the device. something that the PSP or anything els couldn't emulate. but those days are gone.
Nintendo is going to have a good first year, and probably a second year. But i do think that the casuals where basically nintendo lives on atm. are jumping towards mobile platforms. iphones/android systems. Once they see, that there beloved series like the sims jumps for 1 dollar onto there mobile. they really are not interested into a sims game that looks on par with a 3DS version.
You could argue that nintendo has original software etc, and that will carry them. I do agree. the first 2 years. But at the end. the software will repeat itself. and a simplistic emulator on there phones get released, which will emulate for example a DS + n64 on there mobile. Hell 9/10 mobiles already can emulate ds library.
People will just accept the DS library on there mobiles and bail out on nintendo ( if not the 3DS library already )
Nintendo, hoped to hit to core market. But after seeing what the NGP has to offer. i highly doub that anybody that would have gone for the 3DS in order to game on a handheld is going to jump onto a 3DS. I'm purely talking about specifications here. A core playstation player isn't going to jump to the 3DS purely for the 3D pictures or 3D video's or 3D games that look lackbusting in detail / enviroments.
To finish this massive post off. I always supported nintendo. but i really got the feeling that they yet again dropped the ball. there 2x 266 mhz cpu's 96 ram, and 15m polygon pushing gpu, just seems to lackbusting at this date. There online platform would get the focus point, but they kinda dropped the ball there. The no multitouch screen / removal touchscreen from main screen ( and remapped solution ) just seems lackbusting. The games ontop of it, where 90% of already exists on other consoles etc. just doesn't do the job really. The "another cow farm zelda" or another mario is fun ofcourse. but there are already TONS of mario's zelda's etc, its hardly interesting for somebody that already owns a DS to go there.
The biggest problem that nintendo will face = the DS itself and apple / android ofcourse. there new try to dig up core gamers from the psp side, failed after the NGP got introduced to the public at the last event. 3D will sell first 1-2 years, but then when mobile's enter it. developers that developed for nitnendo, will just jump to mobile platforms, hell they are already doing it at this date.
NGP will just dig up there usual core base ( which is inside europe + japan dam large ) and cover every function that mobiles will hit the feature, so that the psp2 games can be sold again on mobiles on a longer time plan. Sony therefor joins android and probably iphone on a later point. and merges itself with those. while offering a next generation mobile / core game experience on the NGP.
I think that sony nailed it this round. Ofcourse we yet have to see for what it launches. but i wouldn't be suprised of the no 3G version hits for 299 the market. After all 50% of the device = there own stuff. which reduces the price heavily.
I hate to get into this one, but on the eternal "who innovated first?" question, I see great misunderstandings on both sides.
side A says - my company was the first to have feature X, therefore it innovated! side B says - nuh-uh, because some other kind of device out there already had feature X!
You're both wrong. On the one hand, side A is incorrect because any feature has in fact already been invented somewhere, which side B points out. However, side B simply equates innovation with technological invention, which is horribly wrong in the context of the gaming industry.
So what is innovation? It's not inventing some new technology which has never been done before. The fact is, video games simply aren't going to invent in that manner, for they'll naturally inherit new tech coming from other products or smaller scale projects out there in the wild. Instead, it's all about opening a space within gaming where a feature, technology, or idea that was once foreign (or very minor) to gaming can take on a new meaning and change the direction of the industry. In other words it's a manner of taking a real risk by being bold enough to bet on an idea that hasn't been done in a major way in gaming before. It's staking your future on opening a brand new space in the market, or opening a new way of looking at or interacting with games for the consumer.
Nintendo did that with the Wii, not because of the old tech of accelerometers and IR, but because it took an enormous risk and based its console around a vision of gaming that was entirely different from the current market and trends -- and it worked. Sony's Move, while a fine piece of tech, is not innovation in anywhere near the same sense, for it simply took a new kind of market and gaming opened up by Nintendo's risky venture and then crammed some more tech into it. Sure, a nice product that you may or may not prefer based on who you are, but not a real innovation, just a safe upgrade.
The DS was fairly innovative for its time -- again, not at all because of the actual tech of touchscreens -- because they successfully reoriented the handheld gaming market towards touch gaming and towards new kinds of experiences that emerged from that vision and tech (Brain Age, etc). Now in 2011, a touchscreen isn't innovative at all for gaming, it's just become a given.
As for whether the 3DS or NGP is more innovative: the NGP really doesn't smack of innovation in any sense, it's just an impressive upgrade -- which may be exactly what you want, but you shouldn't call it innovation. The 3DS is not dramatically innovative either, although there is something to be said for reading the market now and deciding that 3D, without glasses, might just finally make sense and wow people on a handheld (even as it fails in TV use again and again), and the crucial idea of making it adjustable with the slider shows an approach to the issues of 3D that no one has yet tried. Again, it's probably less innovative in a lot of ways than the original DS, but still more than the NGP. That doesn't mean you have to prefer it, though.
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Great posts - this discussion got really interesting again
side A says - my company was the first to have feature X, therefore it innovated! side B says - nuh-uh, because some other kind of device out there already had feature X!
You're both wrong. On the one hand, side A is incorrect because any feature has in fact already been invented somewhere, which side B points out. However, side B simply equates innovation with technological invention, which is horribly wrong in the context of the gaming industry.
Agreed, but there are also different forms of innovation (this will be more relevent later on).
So what is innovation? It's not inventing some new technology which has never been done before.
It can be. Innovation is basically a synnonym for "doing something that hasn't been done before." So, inventing something entirely new is innovative. Finding a new way to do something with something that already exists is also innovative.
In other words it's a manner of taking a real risk by being bold enough to bet on an idea that hasn't been done in a major way in gaming before.
Risk is a business term - this applies to the gaming industry as much as any other - and in the gaming industry, literally any product release comes with risk. By that I mean - risk is the investment of money without guarantee that the money will be returned.
Some risk is minor (Ninjabread Man 2 probably isn't going to sink the publisher if it sells lower than the 10,000 worldwide copies expected, although there would be a financial loss). Other risk - like the release of a major piece of hardware - is major risk and can sink a company. If the NGP bombs, then Sony is in trouble. If the 3DS bombs, Nintendo might well go out of business.
Sony's Move, while a fine piece of tech, is not innovation in anywhere near the same sense, for it simply took a new kind of market and gaming opened up by Nintendo's risky venture and then crammed some more tech into it. Sure, a nice product that you may or may not prefer based on who you are, but not a real innovation, just a safe upgrade.
The Move is a risk. If it fails (which doesn't seem to be likely) it will still cost Sony a great deal.
The DS was fairly innovative for its time -- again, not at all because of the actual tech of touchscreens -- because they successfully reoriented the handheld gaming market towards touch gaming and towards new kinds of experiences that emerged from that vision and tech (Brain Age, etc). Now in 2011, a touchscreen isn't innovative at all for gaming, it's just become a given.
Agreed. The DS was a huge risk.
As for whether the 3DS or NGP is more innovative: the NGP really doesn't smack of innovation in any sense, it's just an impressive upgrade -- which may be exactly what you want, but you shouldn't call it innovation.
Why not? I've said it numerous times in the past, innovation doesn't have to slam you in the face to be innovative. Innovation can be subtle, and the NGP is subtly innovative.
@ Mariowoods and gatygun, incredible posts my friends. I really enjoyed reading that although it was quite a tall wall of text there was great wisdom and insight in what both of you wrote and I agree with the both of you.
I think that instead of pitting the 3DS against the NGP we should enjoy both of what both devices have to offer the way we'd enjoy watching Discovery Channel and SyFy Channel. The Nintendo 3DS is just as different from the Sony NGP as the Discovery Channel is from the SyFy Channel and yet they both are marvelous channels the same as NGP and 3DS are great handhelds that everyone can enjoy.
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I don't think we're necessarily all that far apart (well, we are in gaming preferences probably), but to quickly address some good points:
So, inventing something entirely new is innovative. Finding a new way to do something with something that already exists is also innovative.
True, inventing entirely new tech is innovation, my point was just that we won't really see that in the gaming world (or very rarely). The actual inventions will happen elsewhere, and it's only by a clever application to gaming that new tech is likely to make a hit there. On your second point: that's fair, there are different types of innovation, and I'll cede one more point later which is related.
Risk is a business term - this applies to the gaming industry as much as any other - and in the gaming industry, literally any product release comes with risk. By that I mean - risk is the investment of money without guarantee that the money will be returned.
Some risk is minor (Ninjabread Man 2 probably isn't going to sink the publisher if it sells lower than the 10,000 worldwide copies expected, although there would be a financial loss). Other risk - like the release of a major piece of hardware - is major risk and can sink a company. If the NGP bombs, then Sony is in trouble. If the 3DS bombs, Nintendo might well go out of business.
Technically that is true, many products are risks, but the point is still to identify how some companies in some instances are taking much bigger risks than other companies. The Wii simply was a much more major risk than the Move, for the latter, while surely expensive to develop and important financially for Sony, was only an optional add-on to an already successful system. More importantly, it was an add-on aimed at a new kind of gaming which had already been proven and made profitable. I believe that any discussion of innovation must take into account this kind of difference. Betting it all on the Wii and its motion control held the capability to either kill Nintendo or completely change the industry. The latter happened, and so we validly call it a tremendous innovation. The Move, on the other hand, was just an ordinary product risk in an already established domain, and only as an add-on that would have at worst led to some financial loss and embarrassment, but never ruin.
Again, my point is really just to find a reasonable definition of innovation, specific to the game industry, that matches the way I believe it is actually used if we examine our own concepts and test cases. I stand by my main definition above, at least as a basic outline, and I do believe (1) that risk is something to take into account, and (2) that it's important not to lump all product risks together as if there's no difference between staking it all on a new idea and simply releasing a new plugin or feature.
However, you're correct about there being different kinds of innovation, and I do appreciate your last point:
I've said it numerous times in the past, innovation doesn't have to slam you in the face to be innovative. Innovation can be subtle, and the NGP is subtly innovative.
I'm not sure that I see all that much subtle innovation in the NGP at the moment (some, yes), but your main point is correct. There are minor innovations to be found in even basic or unassuming products, and sometimes very clever design is behind those (and is all the more impressive for making the innovations feel so natural that you don't notice them).
I believe we'll have some trouble agreeing fully on the NGP, but that has a lot to do with my preferences for gaming tech, and how I personally feel that the arms race of specs leads to a regression rather than advance for the kind of inventive fun with which I associate gaming. In other words, gaming is interesting to me precisely where it differs fundamentally from other forms of media (films, etc). I do think of it more as a matter of inventing electronic toys for all ages, not interactive media powerhouses. That's why Nintendo, which started as a toy company and still keeps that orientation alive underneath, continues to amuse and impress me, and also why Sony, who began as a more general tech and media company, tends not to go where I want things to go. I agree in principle, however, that the opposite orientation is valid.
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I think we do basically agree, WarioWoods, lol. It's just that, as you said, we have different personal tastes.
I consider both Sony and Nintendo to be equals - in terms of innovation and quality. I think they both have a very different style of innovation and quality (as you mentioned), and I have a lot of difficulty even seeing the two as competitors. Nintendo is kind of a Disney - consistently coming up with "magic" that pulls people in with an innocence and charm to the point where they happily ignore the weaknesses. Sony is more like James Cameron - You're gonna get hit by something that doesn't even try to be subtle, but blows your mind with a kind of power you didn't think could happen.
Nintendo, really, competes with no one. That's why its so successful - it essentially has a monopoly. Sony is involved in a battle with both Microsoft and Apple (and I personally see it as winning that battle, at least from a gaming point of view).
I'm really glad to see fans of different taste getting along here, it has always been a highlight of Nintendolife for myself.
I think the chances of a NGP Monster Hunter are in the range of 100% probable.
I also think that both Sony and Nintendo are equals even though both are at opposite ends of the gaming world. Nintendo is Nintendo, and anyone that has even dabbled in a Nintendo game understands exactly what that means. Sony is the high-end, uber high-risk company that is always going to bring the leading edge of technology to gaming, and of course at the consumers expense. Both equal different, but equally fantastic companies that produce excellent games, and my Black Wii looks perfect right next to my Black PS3 Slim.
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Topic: Opinions of PSP2 (NGP)
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