That's great - a price point like that puts it in the realm of an impulse buy or a purchase for holidays or something, rather than a huge investment of money that needs to be carefully considered.
(At least for people with a reasonable amount of disposable income)
I'm not sure about this rumour, 8GB seems quite small. I guess they'll offer room for expansion again.
For one, Wii had a tiny file limit for WiiWare, but if they offer a similar service I imagine it will require much more storage space - with better graphics horsepower comes larger texture maps, more detailed models etc. which all require storage space. It's not unusual to see games on Steam reaching over 1GB just for the installation files, let alone the final unzipped space. If Nintendo doesn't want people to run out of space, they'll need to address this.
The point of installing games to the HDD is because loading everything off an optical disk is very slow. You can't get open worlds (e.g. GTA) easily without installing some stuff to hard drive, from which it can be loaded quickly when needed (still not as quickly as some other storage methods, but not too badly). So I imagine installing to HDD will be necessary for some games, and again 8GB seems a bit small.
As for people mentioning larger flash storage, it's incredibly expensive for large capacity drives. For a 160GB SSD (solid state drive, a form of flash storage) you're looking at hundreds of dollars for that alone. A HDD costs a fraction of the price.
As Capt N said, it may be that Nintendo is choosing to keep the base price down by only offering the bare minimum to start with, and people can expand from there if desired.
From the sounds of it, Nintendo will still do their thing - it's just that, alongside Nintendo's first party titles, there will be a greater range of third party games, including some like Call of Duty that won't be stripped-down versions.
Ugh. I hate the wait for announcing these titles. I just want to be able to buy the ones I want and not have to sit around waiting for them to get released in a trickle!
They'd better lift their game - the 3DS ads here in Oz are awful. You literally watch someone standing there with a 3DS (all you see is the back of it) saying things like "wow!" and "that's amazing!".
Come on...
(Here's an example, the rest are exactly the same thing:)
I bought it, because I'd never played the SMB games very much before. I think it's great! And, for the $25 I bought it for, it was priced as a bargain game here in Aus.
No denying that Nintendo didn't spend much making it, but I've already got my money's worth from it and still haven't made my way through all the games. That's what matters to me!
It's good to hear DS support will continue, as others have said - telling the owners of 140-odd million consoles to go buy another one if they want new games isn't such a good idea!
Also, the mental image of Reggie giving birth scares me...
In shock? Really? I've been playing games for about 20 years now, and I've never felt the need for achievements. Good game design makes you want to replay games, not a little window that pops up in the middle of your game to tell you "Congratulations! You just beat the 278th zombie over the head with nothing but your bare hands! Here's a little star for your trouble".
If I've achieved something in game, the recognition for that should come from me. I don't need game developers telling me I've achieved some menial task that they only thought of right before the game went to print just to fill out their required achievement list quota. It's a shallow, pointless practice that is levered into games just because people seem to enjoy collecting points for a little number next to their name more than they seem to enjoy playing the game itself.
Achievements are indicative of the way game development has gone in the last few years. Banking on the umpteenth game in a series to bring in the cash, while tacking on an ultimately irrelevant and tedious system just so people can think, "You know, I feel like I'm playing exactly the same game as last year - but hang on! That little box in my list of achievements is still greyed out! It's NOT the same game with a different texture pack! This was totally worth my $90!" makes me sad.
I want games to make me care enough about them to go back and replay them. I want them to be good enough that they don't feel old, even though they came out 10 years ago and I've played them over and over.
/rant
(Sorry Triforce, that wasn't really directed at you - just achievements in general! Apparently I had a lot to get off my chest...)
I keep banging on about cartridges, but I just want to point out about your 3DS comment - the cartridges are only 2GB, so the storage is cheap, and I imagine the games are cheaper to produce than a full-blown console game (art assets etc. are not as big). Consequently, {cost of media}+{game dev costs}={cost of game} can be the same for 3DS and Wii (I'm obviously simplifying that a lot) but for a next-gen home console both game dev costs and media costs would go up for a cartridge, resulting in a much more expensive end product.
@skywake That's true that I was quoting retail prices, so the chips themselves would be less - still expensive however.
I agree on the 5GB limit for Wii games, but with greater graphical power comes higher resolution and larger textures - these chew up space. Wii games didn't need a lot of texture space but if they're pushing for graphics past the current HD consoles, I think space issues will become a problem again for some games.
There's a few PS3 games pushing tens of GB from a quick search I did, and that will only get worse for greater graphical power.
Long story short - I'm dubious that cartridges are viable, speaking in terms of pricing!
You're right about the speed, and scalable capacity is a plus but the downside of cartridges is cost - BluRay holds 25GB in a single layer and cost a few dollars each retail (after a real quick google), whereas for even 16GB of solid state storage you're looking at roughly $30 Australian. Adding that to the cost of a game isn't particularly attractive! I know not all games need that much, but the cost for solid state is far above the equivalent optical storage.
@Corbs : I'm interested as to what the attraction is to cartridge games for you? Not having a go, just curious!
@madgear : Backwards compatibility, while great news for owners of previous gens, isn't a particularly simple thing to do. From my understanding it was easier with the Wii because the hardware was similar to the GC, but once you make an entire architecture change then it's difficult to incorporate without increasing costs significantly.
Things that might sway me into buying the next console would be:
Improved storage (512MB is a joke, really, even with expandable memory)
Better online gaming, with friend codes either removed or easier to manage.
Better online shop - Australia has been shafted with offerings (and I realise that's partly to do with the price of getting a game rated), with games linked to an account rather than console.
Backwards compatibility would be nice, but only if it doesn't compromise the rest of the system. I'll be hanging on to my Wii regardless.
Region free games. Unlikely with the 3DS having incorporated region coding, but it's a real pain in the neck.
It's going to have to be an excellent offering for me to pick it up though, as I'm really a PC gamer and the Wii was meant to be a once-off console purchase for me. I think the features that will help it in the marketplace are (but I'm not THAT fussed about) are:
HD resolutions. Pretty much a given, but people complain about it a lot. Better resolutions are always nice though, and the Dolphin emulator running at 1080p sure is pretty.
Multimedia functionality. If it has an optical drive, it should do playback of DVDs and any other media it can support.
Finally, the X factor - I imagine Nintendo's got a pretty good card up its sleeve, but they will need something to draw people away from the 360 and PS3. Simply matching or beating specs won't be enough, I imagine - something will need to be done differently.
I have a hard time believing that Nintendo will reach the same sales as the Wii has done. It was marketed towards non-traditional gaming audiences, and I think that many of those are people who won't see the purchase of a new console to be worth it.
I guess I'd class myself as one of those people, although I've always been a gamer. It's just that I see more value in investing in a PC and the Wii's successor will have to do something pretty special to convince me otherwise!
Of course, the games are always the unknown factor, and that's hard to judge. You could have the most technically impressive system in the world, but if your games are bad (or the library is too small) it'll go down like a lead balloon. I think ultimately, that will be the deciding factor for a lot of people (see the last few years of the Wii with the - at least perception of - lack of quality traditional gaming experiences).
While I'm not that excited (although a red remote in the PAL package is tempting) it hopefully points to some more WM+ support coming (apart from the obvious Zelda).
I'd like to see some more big titles using it, and with Nintendo's push here to get more WM+ units into homes that might be more attractive for developers.
I don't have a 3DS, so there doesn't seem to be much here I'd be interested in. I'll wait for some reviews, but the only one there is Conduit 2, and even that's a maybe!
I'll wait for later in the year, there's a few big games I'll definitely grab when they come out.
I wonder how they have taken into account increases in purchases due to new games coming out, since that is somewhat of an unknown factor (e.g. a killer app might sell far more or less than predicted).
Only having gotten into consoles in the last couple of years (I'm a PC player at heart) I don't really have a feel for how these figures relate to other systems.
Sigh Does he really think his opinion will dissuade people from buying products? Because, you know, when I want to get the definitive answer to what's cool and what's not I look to 50 year old company CEOs...
The only one I see as having any significant sway over consumers is Steve Jobs.
(Oh, and badmouthsadmouth, I do hope you realise your comment is exactly like Tretton's...)
I had a go at this game at a demo event - it was one of the games I was looking forward to trying. I only got to try the periscope mode, and that was pretty fun (and the 3D looked superb). My only concern, as the review notes at the end, would be that it might get a bit tedious after a while. Combined with the other play modes it might make it last longer however.
Then again, after playing the excellent Silent Hunter III (on PC) I think any other sub games I play have a lot to live up to
I got a BSOD on one of the demo units I was playing with when they came to my city. The girl explained that the units were a bit 'tired' from six weeks on the go at 8 hours a day. :S
That equals about 350 hours - I'd be spewing if my console started having problems that soon! (I realise she was trying to play it down, but still...)
@lz20XX - he should just come to Australia. He'd get the "pleasure" of paying $68 for Street Fighter IV!
I've got to hand it to Rovio, they've managed to get a game out there and selling well. I can't help but think that it was a huge amount of luck though (considering there's lots of previous games with very similar gameplay) and a matter of the right place at the right time.
Not having played any iPhone games, but plenty of online flash ones, I think that this argument is pointless (from both Nintendo's and app-style developer's points of view). In my experience, the iPhone-style games are fun for a half hour or hour, and then the appeal wears off. A dollar well spent though. I'm sure there's exceptions to this, but there's only so much you can pack into a $1 game and keep it profitable.
Generally, forking out more for a full retail release gives you a much deeper experience. I'm not naive enough to think that all full retail games are great (I've played my fair share that definitely haven't been worth it) but you absolutely couldn't say that none of them offer $50 or so worth of entertainment.
I can't comment on the XBox and PS3, but I have used Steam and in comparison WiiWare is terrible. Don't get me wrong, I've downloaded my share of games from WiiWare and enjoyed it greatly, but it just isn't a great system from a consumer's standpoint IMO (lack of demos, lack of sales, the great disparity between software availability between regions - I understand that isn't all Nintendo's fault though).
Having said that, Mr. Fish's comment was extremely unprofessional. Good luck with your burning bridges...
Comments 492
Re: Wii Price Cut Could Bring About the £99 Wii
That's great - a price point like that puts it in the realm of an impulse buy or a purchase for holidays or something, rather than a huge investment of money that needs to be carefully considered.
(At least for people with a reasonable amount of disposable income)
Re: THQ Cancels Saints Row: Drive-By for 3DS
What? THQ has published plenty of great titles - the Dawn of War series, STALKER, Lock's Quest to name a few.
Not that that necessarily says anything about Saint's Row (I haven't played it)
Re: New Elements Planned for Mario Kart on the 3DS
I think with the items, as long as there's a choice then everyone is happy. If you don't like it, turn it off and don't worry about!
Re: Forget About Cards, Have an Augmented Reality Tattoo
Kind of cool - definitely different!
Unfortunately it forces him to use only one hand for the AR stuff, meaning it's pretty shaky...
Re: Rumour: Wii Successor Won't Have a Traditional Hard Drive
I'm not sure about this rumour, 8GB seems quite small. I guess they'll offer room for expansion again.
For one, Wii had a tiny file limit for WiiWare, but if they offer a similar service I imagine it will require much more storage space - with better graphics horsepower comes larger texture maps, more detailed models etc. which all require storage space. It's not unusual to see games on Steam reaching over 1GB just for the installation files, let alone the final unzipped space. If Nintendo doesn't want people to run out of space, they'll need to address this.
The point of installing games to the HDD is because loading everything off an optical disk is very slow. You can't get open worlds (e.g. GTA) easily without installing some stuff to hard drive, from which it can be loaded quickly when needed (still not as quickly as some other storage methods, but not too badly). So I imagine installing to HDD will be necessary for some games, and again 8GB seems a bit small.
As for people mentioning larger flash storage, it's incredibly expensive for large capacity drives. For a 160GB SSD (solid state drive, a form of flash storage) you're looking at hundreds of dollars for that alone. A HDD costs a fraction of the price.
As Capt N said, it may be that Nintendo is choosing to keep the base price down by only offering the bare minimum to start with, and people can expand from there if desired.
Re: Xenoblade Chronicles Rated by OFLC
Sweet! Although I'll be ordering it from the UK anyway, to save money :S
Re: Nintendo Reinforcing Western Development for Wii's Successor
From the sounds of it, Nintendo will still do their thing - it's just that, alongside Nintendo's first party titles, there will be a greater range of third party games, including some like Call of Duty that won't be stripped-down versions.
Everyone wins, as far as I can see.
Re: Rumour: Xenoblade Voice Actors Out September EU Date, North American Release
I'm glad I at least know the PAL version is coming - although it's nice to (possibly) have some word on a date!
Re: Miyamoto: A Link to the Past Could be Reworked for the 3DS
While I'm sure a LTTP remake would do very well for Nintendo, how about making some new games?
I know it's not true, but it at least seems like the majority of games they've announced lately are ports or remakes...
Re: Nintendo to Promptly Work On 3D Video Service After Upcoming 3DS Update
Like Rapenzie said, what's with the "currently planned hardware update"?
Is that a mistranslation of firmware? Or something else?
Re: Iwata: Wii has More to Offer, Unannounced Games on the Way
Ugh. I hate the wait for announcing these titles. I just want to be able to buy the ones I want and not have to sit around waiting for them to get released in a trickle!
Re: Iwata Expresses Regrets About the Way the Wii was Marketed
They'd better lift their game - the 3DS ads here in Oz are awful. You literally watch someone standing there with a 3DS (all you see is the back of it) saying things like "wow!" and "that's amazing!".
Come on...
(Here's an example, the rest are exactly the same thing:)
Re: Over 2 Million Players Bought Mario's 25th Anniversary Game
I bought it, because I'd never played the SMB games very much before. I think it's great! And, for the $25 I bought it for, it was priced as a bargain game here in Aus.
No denying that Nintendo didn't spend much making it, but I've already got my money's worth from it and still haven't made my way through all the games. That's what matters to me!
Re: Come On In for Zelda: Ocarina of Time 3D's Intro Movie
I hate to say it, but the animation for that horse is horrible...
Surely they could at least get that right!
Re: Nintendo Confirms New Console
Interesting - I wonder if the 'leaks' were intended, or if Nintendo's hand has been forced here...
Should be a good E3! I hope this means the last few big Wii games I'm looking forward to are still going to be released.
Re: First Impressions: BurgerTime HD - MonkeyPaw Games
I have fond memories of playing this on the C64 - I'll be keen to check it out!
Re: Rumour: Could This Be the Next Nintendo Console?
This picture is fake. i can tell from some of the pixels and having seen quite a few fake pictures in my time.
Re: 3DS Launch Sales Have Been Breaking Records Worldwide
It's good to hear DS support will continue, as others have said - telling the owners of 140-odd million consoles to go buy another one if they want new games isn't such a good idea!
Also, the mental image of Reggie giving birth scares me...
Re: Talking Point: What You Want in a New Nintendo Home Console
@DJ Triforce
In shock? Really? I've been playing games for about 20 years now, and I've never felt the need for achievements. Good game design makes you want to replay games, not a little window that pops up in the middle of your game to tell you "Congratulations! You just beat the 278th zombie over the head with nothing but your bare hands! Here's a little star for your trouble".
If I've achieved something in game, the recognition for that should come from me. I don't need game developers telling me I've achieved some menial task that they only thought of right before the game went to print just to fill out their required achievement list quota. It's a shallow, pointless practice that is levered into games just because people seem to enjoy collecting points for a little number next to their name more than they seem to enjoy playing the game itself.
Achievements are indicative of the way game development has gone in the last few years. Banking on the umpteenth game in a series to bring in the cash, while tacking on an ultimately irrelevant and tedious system just so people can think, "You know, I feel like I'm playing exactly the same game as last year - but hang on! That little box in my list of achievements is still greyed out! It's NOT the same game with a different texture pack! This was totally worth my $90!" makes me sad.
I want games to make me care enough about them to go back and replay them. I want them to be good enough that they don't feel old, even though they came out 10 years ago and I've played them over and over.
/rant
(Sorry Triforce, that wasn't really directed at you - just achievements in general! Apparently I had a lot to get off my chest...)
Re: Talking Point: What You Want in a New Nintendo Home Console
@SigourneyBeaver
I keep banging on about cartridges, but I just want to point out about your 3DS comment - the cartridges are only 2GB, so the storage is cheap, and I imagine the games are cheaper to produce than a full-blown console game (art assets etc. are not as big). Consequently, {cost of media}+{game dev costs}={cost of game} can be the same for 3DS and Wii (I'm obviously simplifying that a lot) but for a next-gen home console both game dev costs and media costs would go up for a cartridge, resulting in a much more expensive end product.
Re: Talking Point: What You Want in a New Nintendo Home Console
@skywake That's true that I was quoting retail prices, so the chips themselves would be less - still expensive however.
I agree on the 5GB limit for Wii games, but with greater graphical power comes higher resolution and larger textures - these chew up space. Wii games didn't need a lot of texture space but if they're pushing for graphics past the current HD consoles, I think space issues will become a problem again for some games.
There's a few PS3 games pushing tens of GB from a quick search I did, and that will only get worse for greater graphical power.
Long story short - I'm dubious that cartridges are viable, speaking in terms of pricing!
Re: Talking Point: What You Want in a New Nintendo Home Console
@ravage
You're right about the speed, and scalable capacity is a plus but the downside of cartridges is cost - BluRay holds 25GB in a single layer and cost a few dollars each retail (after a real quick google), whereas for even 16GB of solid state storage you're looking at roughly $30 Australian. Adding that to the cost of a game isn't particularly attractive! I know not all games need that much, but the cost for solid state is far above the equivalent optical storage.
Re: Talking Point: What You Want in a New Nintendo Home Console
@Corbs : I'm interested as to what the attraction is to cartridge games for you? Not having a go, just curious!
@madgear : Backwards compatibility, while great news for owners of previous gens, isn't a particularly simple thing to do. From my understanding it was easier with the Wii because the hardware was similar to the GC, but once you make an entire architecture change then it's difficult to incorporate without increasing costs significantly.
Re: Talking Point: What You Want in a New Nintendo Home Console
Things that might sway me into buying the next console would be:
It's going to have to be an excellent offering for me to pick it up though, as I'm really a PC gamer and the Wii was meant to be a once-off console purchase for me. I think the features that will help it in the marketplace are (but I'm not THAT fussed about) are:
I have a hard time believing that Nintendo will reach the same sales as the Wii has done. It was marketed towards non-traditional gaming audiences, and I think that many of those are people who won't see the purchase of a new console to be worth it.
I guess I'd class myself as one of those people, although I've always been a gamer. It's just that I see more value in investing in a PC and the Wii's successor will have to do something pretty special to convince me otherwise!
Of course, the games are always the unknown factor, and that's hard to judge. You could have the most technically impressive system in the world, but if your games are bad (or the library is too small) it'll go down like a lead balloon. I think ultimately, that will be the deciding factor for a lot of people (see the last few years of the Wii with the - at least perception of - lack of quality traditional gaming experiences).
Re: Rumour: We May See a New Nintendo Console at E3
Aaaargh! I still haven't played most of the Wii games I have - I don't have time to invest in a new console!
Although, I'll wait for details. The Wii was always going to be the last console I bought, so I might not even be interested in the next one...
Re: Dust Off Your MotionPlus for Wii Play: Motion in June
While I'm not that excited (although a red remote in the PAL package is tempting) it hopefully points to some more WM+ support coming (apart from the obvious Zelda).
I'd like to see some more big titles using it, and with Nintendo's push here to get more WM+ units into homes that might be more attractive for developers.
Re: Europe, Your Q2 Release Line-Up is Waiting
I don't have a 3DS, so there doesn't seem to be much here I'd be interested in. I'll wait for some reviews, but the only one there is Conduit 2, and even that's a maybe!
I'll wait for later in the year, there's a few big games I'll definitely grab when they come out.
Re: Nintendo to Release Solatorobo: Red the Hunter in Europe
I'm keen to hear more about this game - people seem excited but I can't find much info about it!
Re: Research Firm Predicts 12m 3DS Sales by 2012, 70m by 2015
I wonder how they have taken into account increases in purchases due to new games coming out, since that is somewhat of an unknown factor (e.g. a killer app might sell far more or less than predicted).
Only having gotten into consoles in the last couple of years (I'm a PC player at heart) I don't really have a feel for how these figures relate to other systems.
Re: The GameBoy Makes Beautiful Music Even When Switched Off
One word. Sweet!
Re: Fan-Made Super Mario Bros. 3 in 3D is A Little Bit Awesome
This... makes me nauseous
Re: Super NES Classic Controller Visits Australian Club Nintendo
@ThumperUK - I'm not absolutely sure, but I think the cost works out about the same - stars and coins aren't worth the same amount!
Re: Super NES Classic Controller Visits Australian Club Nintendo
I was annoyed that I spent all my stars, but felt better once I found adaptors you can buy that connect an actual SNES controller to a Wii remote
Re: Sony CEO Refers to Nintendo Handhelds as "Babysitting Tools"
Sigh
Does he really think his opinion will dissuade people from buying products? Because, you know, when I want to get the definitive answer to what's cool and what's not I look to 50 year old company CEOs...
The only one I see as having any significant sway over consumers is Steve Jobs.
(Oh, and badmouthsadmouth, I do hope you realise your comment is exactly like Tretton's...)
Re: Nintendo Buys Up TheLastStory.com, Points to Nintendo.com
Hmm... Cautiously optimistic. Here's hoping for a PAL release to go along with Xenoblade!
Re: Your First Look at Pandora's Tower is Below These Words
Interesting - I look forward to seeing more! It's a bit hard to say too much at the moment, but I'm optimistic
Re: Happy Two-Year "Nintendo Life" Anniversary
Sweet cake!
Re: Review: Steel Diver (3DS)
I had a go at this game at a demo event - it was one of the games I was looking forward to trying. I only got to try the periscope mode, and that was pretty fun (and the 3D looked superb). My only concern, as the review notes at the end, would be that it might get a bit tedious after a while. Combined with the other play modes it might make it last longer however.
Then again, after playing the excellent Silent Hunter III (on PC) I think any other sub games I play have a lot to live up to
Re: Xenoblade Chronicles Heading to Europe This Year
This makes me a VERY happy person! That's awesome news - I've been waiting for this for ages!
Re: Nintendo Responds to 3DS Black Screen Error
I got a BSOD on one of the demo units I was playing with when they came to my city. The girl explained that the units were a bit 'tired' from six weeks on the go at 8 hours a day. :S
That equals about 350 hours - I'd be spewing if my console started having problems that soon! (I realise she was trying to play it down, but still...)
Re: Angry Birds Dev Calls Nintendo Games "$49 Pieces of Plastic"
Ah, the war of words continues.
@lz20XX - he should just come to Australia. He'd get the "pleasure" of paying $68 for Street Fighter IV!
I've got to hand it to Rovio, they've managed to get a game out there and selling well. I can't help but think that it was a huge amount of luck though (considering there's lots of previous games with very similar gameplay) and a matter of the right place at the right time.
Not having played any iPhone games, but plenty of online flash ones, I think that this argument is pointless (from both Nintendo's and app-style developer's points of view). In my experience, the iPhone-style games are fun for a half hour or hour, and then the appeal wears off. A dollar well spent though. I'm sure there's exceptions to this, but there's only so much you can pack into a $1 game and keep it profitable.
Generally, forking out more for a full retail release gives you a much deeper experience. I'm not naive enough to think that all full retail games are great (I've played my fair share that definitely haven't been worth it) but you absolutely couldn't say that none of them offer $50 or so worth of entertainment.
Re: WiiWare, Fez Developer Does Not Like You At All
I can't comment on the XBox and PS3, but I have used Steam and in comparison WiiWare is terrible. Don't get me wrong, I've downloaded my share of games from WiiWare and enjoyed it greatly, but it just isn't a great system from a consumer's standpoint IMO (lack of demos, lack of sales, the great disparity between software availability between regions - I understand that isn't all Nintendo's fault though).
Having said that, Mr. Fish's comment was extremely unprofessional. Good luck with your burning bridges...