@NassaDane: Absolutely correct, but there is a line to draw between "only way" and "only practical way". Given that production has ceased, the consoles and games are only becoming rarer. This can lead to prohibitively expensive costs to buy from the used game market, assuming one can even find the game that they are after.
Now I'm with you - I prefer to play games on the original hardware, and still occasionally buy SNES games. However this isn't a realistic option for many, and as a result emulation is attractive.
@Capt_N: That's an interesting point you raise about accuracy of emulation. Simply put, 100% accurate emulation is incredibly computationally intensive and basically not achievable in software in a console. There's a really interesting read by the developer of bsnes here:
I'd suggest anyone with an interest in the topic read that.
The upshot is that to accurately emulate a SNES, he needs a PC with a 3GHz CPU - a fairly beefy requirement, and something Nintendo consoles aren't anywhere near. Other emulators (such as ZSNES) are really patchy jobs with game-specific modifications to get things running properly. To the average user this may not be apparent, but it's a really messy way of doing things.
In some games 100% accurate emulation is required for them to even be playable, while in others it may result in minor differences from the original that are pretty hard to spot.
However not all hope is lost - Byuu mentions a 100% perfect software emulation of the original Pong game, right down to the transistor level. That's a phenomenal achievement in my eyes, and the same may be possible for some other retro systems in the future.
@Nintenzo: I'm by no means an expert, but I think this is more of a legal 'grey area' than anything. In some countries the 'fair use' laws (pertaining to a product you have purchased) dictate that you are allowed to make a single backup of software, a CD etc., in the case of the original being damaged or lost.
However, downloading of games means that the backup has not been made by you - someone else has done it - and as a result it doesn't come under the fair use laws in many cases. Of course, the average person doesn't have the equipment or the know-how to dump ROMs from their cartridge games, and backing up optical discs isn't always straightforward either.
Things get murky when you're talking about software that has some form of copy protection (such as PC games with SecuROM and the like) - there exists circumstances where freely copying the game is legal (e.g. after copyright has expired and the product is in the public domain - this takes a while though!) but to do so you still have to circumvent the copy protection - which is illegal.
In the end it becomes a horrible mess of laws with some rulings appearing to contradict those of others, especially in different countries, which leads to things like the emulator sites saying that you can "download a copy if you already own it" or "you can download and play it, but have to delete it in 24 hours".
As I said I don't really know which is true, but I DO know that it's not straightforward to determine what your rights as a consumer are.
I'd like to see them retain the manuals etc. but lower the price. Paying about $9 AUD for original Game Boy games is far too much.
I understand they need to do some level of QA with them, but the instructions manuals and the like are, I'm sure, still sitting in digital form somewhere in Nintendo's archives - it wouldn't take them very long to convert it into an eShop format.
I would have bought more from the Wii VC catalogue if it wasn't so pricey - for $12 AUD per SNES game, I could just about go out and buy the original game and play it on my actual SNES for many games. Having said that, it is useful for the rarer ones that the collector's market has placed a huge value on.
Long story short - personally, I think that Nintendo's pricing on its VC catalogues is far too high which puts me off buying more than one or two hard-to-find games. They need to realise that, especially in the case of simpler GB games, that I can easily find free or $1 games on my smartphone that will give me as deep an experience as the games they want $5 or more for. That's a hard sell.
@Highwinter: if I had a bit more time I'd be playing at the moment - I plan to get back into it soon. However, I've finished the main quest and will be doing post-game stuff which many people won't do.
It is nice to see them supporting the game regularly, even if it is just aesthetic options. I'd like to see some more wifi events, but this is better than nothing!
It looks like some of the bulk is due to it having a couple of grips on the bottom - maybe that's something positive to come out of it?
Not the most stylish thing ever though.
Wait and see at the conference, I guess.
@James: That's a good point, but personally I'm of the opinion that it'd be better to have a second analogue pad that might occasionally get used than only have one. It at least allows more choice with control schemes which is a good thing in my opinion.
@Highwinter: I haven't played DQIX so can't comment on the NPCs, but I'd be impressed if they managed to enforce subscription fees for an entirely offline portion of a game...
Looks interesting, but I just don't know if I have the time to invest in big games like this these days!
I do, however, like that it can be completed offline - good for people like me who often don't get to a game until the online community is small or completely dead, which can result in missing out on chunks of a game.
@XCWarrior: well if you go back a generation or two there's plenty of RPGs we've missed out on (Chrono Trigger, anyone? Prior to the DS release at least).
It's certainly unfortunate that you're not getting them currently, but if you really want to you can find a way to play them... Importing's certainly pretty simple given the prevalence of online stores etc.
I'll have to wait and see what the PAL cover is like for this before I grab the USA one - I don't normally put much stock in cover art, but the previous three PAL Layton ones have been gorgeous!
@WaltzElf: The thought of Apple spreading out makes me cringe. I avoid their stuff wherever I can - far too overpriced for what you get!
Having said that, if I ran a company I'd love to have the level of consumer loyalty that they get, although it completely escapes me why people like them so much.
@James: Surely there's a recommended price though? I don't see how Europe is different to the USA or Australia with regards to pricing, in that retailers can charge whatever they want.
Can anyone enlighten me as to why it's taking so long? As far as these things go I would have thought it was pretty simple to get up and running, or are they having distribution problems?
It's a real shame for Nintendo that they're probably restricting the eShop to a small part of their audience - I imagine a large fraction of 3DS owners are unable to buy points with a credit card for various reasons.
The PAL console is way cooler (I'm probably a bit biased) but we did have to put up with missing out on a lot of releases. Luckily they were only unimportant ones, like, you know, Chrono Trigger...
Oh, and the PAL conversion problems, although that wasn't something I was aware of until recently.
Wow, I'm surprised to see such large lists - particularly for the Wii! Apparently there's not a complete dearth of games after all, and quite a few of them look pretty good.
To all the people saying this is a bad move - I imagine that very few people in the Wii target audience use the GC compatibility. If Nintendo can strip out unnecessary components and make a super-cheap console it'll position itself like the PS2 today - a great entry-level system for people buying their first console or buying for children.
Having said that, I assume this will be sold alongside the current Wii. Can anyone confirm?
EDIT - Eurogamer has confirmed that this will be replacing the current model. THAT seems a little much to me - let's hope my Wii doesn't break down!
@Geonjaha: I think the point people are trying to make when discussing how similar the 3DS looks to the DS Lite and DSi is that, to the casual observer, there appears to be very little separating the consoles.
Sure, to people in the know, it's obviously a brand new console with lots of additional features, but to someone browsing in a store looking for presents for someone else I'm sure there would appear to be few compelling reasons to buy one over the cheaper DS models.
While I doubt Xenoblade will ever get an NTSC release, I've done my bit - my copy of Xenoblade is ordered and paid for. Now to wait for it in the mail!
To those people complaining, it's not unfair - it's capitalism. You bought when the price was right for you, so stop complaining about people who waited being able to get it cheaper!
@TheSolarKnight: I daresay that retailers are choosing to do that because of the cost price.
Say, currently, the cost price for a retailer in the USA is $200. If they buy a bunch of 3DS systems now but don't sell them all, they're forced to lower the price to $170 on August 12. Thus, they make a $30 loss on those systems sold.
However, I'm sure the cost price will drop along with the retail price, so systems that retailers buy after the price drop will give them profit.
Hmm, I was hoping from the previews that it might have been something special! If I didn't have 2 WM+ already I'd grab this, but I think I'll give it a miss.
1. I think it's quite unlikely that Nintendo would spend the time and money writing emulators for these games (some excellent ones, I might add) and doing QA etc. on them without expecting to release them for sale at some point. That'd just be a large outlay for zero return, barring the extra sales they might get from people buying up before the price drop.
2. Even if the games aren't released for sale ever, get over it. It's a limited offer. They happen. People are acting like it's the only time any company ever has offered a deal with an expiration date. It's not like those games aren't available through other means anyway. If it really means that much to you to play them, track down a copy!
At this stage I still won't be buying a 3DS, as there's plenty of life left in my DS! Nothing really makes me want to upgrade (in fact, I've got several reasons why I really don't want to).
I can't imagine that Nintendo won't release the GBA games at some point in the future. They would have to have gone through the process of writing an emulator, making sure the games work with no problems etc.
Sure, they'll probably hang on to them for a little while to make this deal worth buying early, but if they don't want to throw away money (as the GBA emulator and games will be ready to go) they'll let people buy these games in the future.
@Aviator & 47drift: You're right that it's a score based game, but I disagree with both of you for two main reasons:
1. The game also includes achievements and unlockables. Some people (including me) enjoy being able to wipe things and start over. YMMV.
2. While this may not be a huge deal right now, this sort of thing doesn't bode well for the future. I'm far from a doomsayer, but removing the ability to do something as simple as deleting a save could grow into something more. I remember a while ago thinking that online activations of PC games were annoying but not a huge deal; Ubisoft then took that to the extreme and required a PERMANENT online connection to play several games. To me, that's unfathomably stupid. The backlash was huge, but it didn't stop them from ruining several games for many people.
I long for the days of buying a game and being able to do what you want with it. All these online activations, locking to accounts, messing with save systems - all it does is impact on the legitimate users' experiences.
Comments 492
Re: Talking Point: The Future of No-Frills Emulation on the eShop
@NassaDane: Absolutely correct, but there is a line to draw between "only way" and "only practical way". Given that production has ceased, the consoles and games are only becoming rarer. This can lead to prohibitively expensive costs to buy from the used game market, assuming one can even find the game that they are after.
Now I'm with you - I prefer to play games on the original hardware, and still occasionally buy SNES games. However this isn't a realistic option for many, and as a result emulation is attractive.
Re: Talking Point: The Future of No-Frills Emulation on the eShop
@Capt_N: That's an interesting point you raise about accuracy of emulation. Simply put, 100% accurate emulation is incredibly computationally intensive and basically not achievable in software in a console. There's a really interesting read by the developer of bsnes here:
Byuu on bsnes
I'd suggest anyone with an interest in the topic read that.
The upshot is that to accurately emulate a SNES, he needs a PC with a 3GHz CPU - a fairly beefy requirement, and something Nintendo consoles aren't anywhere near. Other emulators (such as ZSNES) are really patchy jobs with game-specific modifications to get things running properly. To the average user this may not be apparent, but it's a really messy way of doing things.
In some games 100% accurate emulation is required for them to even be playable, while in others it may result in minor differences from the original that are pretty hard to spot.
However not all hope is lost - Byuu mentions a 100% perfect software emulation of the original Pong game, right down to the transistor level. That's a phenomenal achievement in my eyes, and the same may be possible for some other retro systems in the future.
Re: Talking Point: The Future of No-Frills Emulation on the eShop
@Nintenzo: I'm by no means an expert, but I think this is more of a legal 'grey area' than anything. In some countries the 'fair use' laws (pertaining to a product you have purchased) dictate that you are allowed to make a single backup of software, a CD etc., in the case of the original being damaged or lost.
However, downloading of games means that the backup has not been made by you - someone else has done it - and as a result it doesn't come under the fair use laws in many cases. Of course, the average person doesn't have the equipment or the know-how to dump ROMs from their cartridge games, and backing up optical discs isn't always straightforward either.
Things get murky when you're talking about software that has some form of copy protection (such as PC games with SecuROM and the like) - there exists circumstances where freely copying the game is legal (e.g. after copyright has expired and the product is in the public domain - this takes a while though!) but to do so you still have to circumvent the copy protection - which is illegal.
In the end it becomes a horrible mess of laws with some rulings appearing to contradict those of others, especially in different countries, which leads to things like the emulator sites saying that you can "download a copy if you already own it" or "you can download and play it, but have to delete it in 24 hours".
As I said I don't really know which is true, but I DO know that it's not straightforward to determine what your rights as a consumer are.
Re: Talking Point: The Future of No-Frills Emulation on the eShop
I'd like to see them retain the manuals etc. but lower the price. Paying about $9 AUD for original Game Boy games is far too much.
I understand they need to do some level of QA with them, but the instructions manuals and the like are, I'm sure, still sitting in digital form somewhere in Nintendo's archives - it wouldn't take them very long to convert it into an eShop format.
I would have bought more from the Wii VC catalogue if it wasn't so pricey - for $12 AUD per SNES game, I could just about go out and buy the original game and play it on my actual SNES for many games. Having said that, it is useful for the rarer ones that the collector's market has placed a huge value on.
Long story short - personally, I think that Nintendo's pricing on its VC catalogues is far too high which puts me off buying more than one or two hard-to-find games. They need to realise that, especially in the case of simpler GB games, that I can easily find free or $1 games on my smartphone that will give me as deep an experience as the games they want $5 or more for. That's a hard sell.
Re: Get a Venusaur C-Gear Skin with Exclusive Code
@Highwinter: if I had a bit more time I'd be playing at the moment - I plan to get back into it soon. However, I've finished the main quest and will be doing post-game stuff which many people won't do.
It is nice to see them supporting the game regularly, even if it is just aesthetic options. I'd like to see some more wifi events, but this is better than nothing!
Re: Rumour: Analogue Stick Add-On for 3DS Revealed
It looks like some of the bulk is due to it having a couple of grips on the bottom - maybe that's something positive to come out of it?
Not the most stylish thing ever though.
Wait and see at the conference, I guess.
@James: That's a good point, but personally I'm of the opinion that it'd be better to have a second analogue pad that might occasionally get used than only have one. It at least allows more choice with control schemes which is a good thing in my opinion.
Re: Dragon Quest X Requires Online Connection
At least it might be a way for Nintendo to prove how serious they are about online with the Wii U - be interesting to see how it goes.
Re: BIT.TRIP COMPLETE and SAGA Trailer is Hard to BEAT
Looking forward to PAL releases for these! (Although I'll only be getting COMPLETE).
Re: Dragon Quest X Goes Online for Wii and Wii U
@Highwinter: I haven't played DQIX so can't comment on the NPCs, but I'd be impressed if they managed to enforce subscription fees for an entirely offline portion of a game...
Re: Dragon Quest X Goes Online for Wii and Wii U
To everyone worried about online:
It has been confirmed that you can play the game entirely offline, with NPCs filling the slots where other players would be (from http://www.andriasang.com/e/blog/2011/09/05/dq_press_conference/ )
Re: Dragon Quest X Goes Online for Wii and Wii U
Looks interesting, but I just don't know if I have the time to invest in big games like this these days!
I do, however, like that it can be completed offline - good for people like me who often don't get to a game until the online community is small or completely dead, which can result in missing out on chunks of a game.
Re: In Space, Nobody Can Hear This Aliens: Infestation Trailer
Looks pretty good, although I think I'll be waiting for a few reviews just in case.
Re: Flame Red 3DS Heats Up Australia from 22nd September
Still not enough to push me into 3DS ownership. I'm afraid (although I don't think just a colour scheme would manage that).
Re: Feature: BIT.TRIP SAGA vs. BIT.TRIP COMPLETE
They didn't happen to let slip a PAL release date did they?
Re: Nintendo Europe's Official Statement About eShop Cards
Oh well, you'd hate for them to put TOO much effort into promoting their hardware...
/sarcasm
Re: Professor Layton's London Life Won't Make It to Europe
Hmm damn - looks like I'll get the US version! I've much preferred the cover art on the UK versions for the last 3 though
Re: Musical Mario Toys Hit Japan, Score Continuous 1-Ups
Try play-asia.com if you want to get hold of these - they may offer them.
Re: Europe Gets Zelda: Skyward Sword CD and Bundle Too
@XCWarrior: well if you go back a generation or two there's plenty of RPGs we've missed out on (Chrono Trigger, anyone? Prior to the DS release at least).
It's certainly unfortunate that you're not getting them currently, but if you really want to you can find a way to play them... Importing's certainly pretty simple given the prevalence of online stores etc.
Re: Professor Layton's London Life Will Make It to Europe
Phew!
Re: Europe Gets Zelda: Skyward Sword CD and Bundle Too
@XCWarrior: Trauma Team
Re: Professor Layton's Last Specter Out in October
I'll have to wait and see what the PAL cover is like for this before I grab the USA one - I don't normally put much stock in cover art, but the previous three PAL Layton ones have been gorgeous!
Re: Aliens Infest North America on 11th October
From what I've heard about Shantae, this might be worth more of a look than I thought - I hadn't realised it was the same people!
Re: New Wii Design Could Go As Low as £80
@Sir_Dragoon: Doing a straight conversion gives about $130. (Google is your friend).
Re: Inazuma Eleven Finally Makes it to UK Today
My local import shop had this a while ago so I picked it up. Still haven't played it though! I am looking forward to it...
Re: Rumour: Nintendo Readying Big Announcement Next Month
@WaltzElf: The thought of Apple spreading out makes me cringe. I avoid their stuff wherever I can - far too overpriced for what you get!
Having said that, if I ran a company I'd love to have the level of consumer loyalty that they get, although it completely escapes me why people like them so much.
Re: New Wii is No Smaller Than Before
@James: Surely there's a recommended price though? I don't see how Europe is different to the USA or Australia with regards to pricing, in that retailers can charge whatever they want.
Re: New Wii is No Smaller Than Before
Fair enough.
I'll be interested to see what the price drop ends up being!
Re: Nintendo eShop Cards Make it Down Under
Can anyone enlighten me as to why it's taking so long? As far as these things go I would have thought it was pretty simple to get up and running, or are they having distribution problems?
It's a real shame for Nintendo that they're probably restricting the eShop to a small part of their audience - I imagine a large fraction of 3DS owners are unable to buy points with a credit card for various reasons.
Re: Xenoblade Chronicles Assaults UK Top 10
Good to see it's doing well so this type of game has a chance of Western release in the future.
I'm looking forward to seeing some numbers on the sales!
Re: Feature: 20 Years of the Super NES
Yay for the SNES!
The PAL console is way cooler (I'm probably a bit biased) but we did have to put up with missing out on a lot of releases. Luckily they were only unimportant ones, like, you know, Chrono Trigger...
Oh, and the PAL conversion problems, although that wasn't something I was aware of until recently.
I still love mine to bits though!
Re: Zelda: Skyward Sword Hits Europe on 18th November
@timp29: I order stuff from the UK all the time and it usually takes between 6-9 working days to Adelaide. Not bad, really!
@BenAV: If you can, I'd highly recommend you import it from the UK. You'll get it for about half price, and may get it sooner too!
Re: Here's the European Release Line-Up for 2011
Wow, I'm surprised to see such large lists - particularly for the Wii! Apparently there's not a complete dearth of games after all, and quite a few of them look pretty good.
Re: First Photo of New Look Wii Console
To all the people saying this is a bad move - I imagine that very few people in the Wii target audience use the GC compatibility. If Nintendo can strip out unnecessary components and make a super-cheap console it'll position itself like the PS2 today - a great entry-level system for people buying their first console or buying for children.
Having said that, I assume this will be sold alongside the current Wii. Can anyone confirm?
EDIT - Eurogamer has confirmed that this will be replacing the current model. THAT seems a little much to me - let's hope my Wii doesn't break down!
Re: The Last Story and Pandora's Tower Grace Europe in 2012
Excellent, it's great to get official confirmation! I'll probably pick both of these up, assuming they're not terrible.
@WaltzElf - PT seems to divide people a bit. What don't you like about it?
Re: Talking Point: The Great Nintendo 3DS Price Drop Debate
@Geonjaha: I think the point people are trying to make when discussing how similar the 3DS looks to the DS Lite and DSi is that, to the casual observer, there appears to be very little separating the consoles.
Sure, to people in the know, it's obviously a brand new console with lots of additional features, but to someone browsing in a store looking for presents for someone else I'm sure there would appear to be few compelling reasons to buy one over the cheaper DS models.
Re: NOA Will Be Watching European Xenoblade Chronicles Sales Closely
While I doubt Xenoblade will ever get an NTSC release, I've done my bit - my copy of Xenoblade is ordered and paid for. Now to wait for it in the mail!
Re: de Blob Developer Blue Tongue Shuts Up Shop
Ah damn. We don't have enough game development happening in Australia as it is, so it's a pity to see another one shut up shop!
Re: Walmart Already Selling 3DS for $169.99, But Be Quick
To those people complaining, it's not unfair - it's capitalism. You bought when the price was right for you, so stop complaining about people who waited being able to get it cheaper!
Re: Let's Play Xenoblade Chronicles Channel Reaches YouTube
Oh, in case anyone has pre-ordered this from GAME and doesn't frequent the forums, check out my post here.
Re: Let's Play Xenoblade Chronicles Channel Reaches YouTube
I've got this on pre-order, can't wait to get it in the mail!
Re: Gamestop Offers BIT.TRIP SAGA Preorder Bonus
Is there any word of a PAL release for this and COMPLETE? I'm keen to get my hands on them, but couldn't find any recent information.
Re: Japanese 3DS Sales Slump Coincided with Price Cut Announcement
@TheSolarKnight: I daresay that retailers are choosing to do that because of the cost price.
Say, currently, the cost price for a retailer in the USA is $200. If they buy a bunch of 3DS systems now but don't sell them all, they're forced to lower the price to $170 on August 12. Thus, they make a $30 loss on those systems sold.
However, I'm sure the cost price will drop along with the retail price, so systems that retailers buy after the price drop will give them profit.
Re: Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3 is Wii-Bound
I'm a bit surprised to see this. If I grab it (I'll wait and see what they do with it) it'll be on PC.
Re: Review: Wii Play: Motion (Wii)
Hmm, I was hoping from the previews that it might have been something special! If I didn't have 2 WM+ already I'd grab this, but I think I'll give it a miss.
Re: Talking Point: Nintendo Makes Bold Move with the 3DS
To the people complaining about the GBA games:
1. I think it's quite unlikely that Nintendo would spend the time and money writing emulators for these games (some excellent ones, I might add) and doing QA etc. on them without expecting to release them for sale at some point. That'd just be a large outlay for zero return, barring the extra sales they might get from people buying up before the price drop.
2. Even if the games aren't released for sale ever, get over it. It's a limited offer. They happen. People are acting like it's the only time any company ever has offered a deal with an expiration date. It's not like those games aren't available through other means anyway. If it really means that much to you to play them, track down a copy!
At this stage I still won't be buying a 3DS, as there's plenty of life left in my DS! Nothing really makes me want to upgrade (in fact, I've got several reasons why I really don't want to).
Re: Iwata Shoulders Blame for Low 3DS Sales, Cuts Salary in Half
Much respect for taking the blame like that. It's not often you see CEOs cut their own pay following poor performance...
Re: NES and Game Boy Advance Games Coming to 3DS Virtual Console
I can't imagine that Nintendo won't release the GBA games at some point in the future. They would have to have gone through the process of writing an emulator, making sure the games work with no problems etc.
Sure, they'll probably hang on to them for a little while to make this deal worth buying early, but if they don't want to throw away money (as the GBA emulator and games will be ready to go) they'll let people buy these games in the future.
Re: Australia 3DS Price Goes to $249.95 on 12th August
Wow, that's a massive drop! Will be interesting to see what that does for sales...
Re: Uh Oh, Now Namco Goes for Single 3DS Save File
@Aviator & 47drift: You're right that it's a score based game, but I disagree with both of you for two main reasons:
1. The game also includes achievements and unlockables. Some people (including me) enjoy being able to wipe things and start over. YMMV.
2. While this may not be a huge deal right now, this sort of thing doesn't bode well for the future. I'm far from a doomsayer, but removing the ability to do something as simple as deleting a save could grow into something more. I remember a while ago thinking that online activations of PC games were annoying but not a huge deal; Ubisoft then took that to the extreme and required a PERMANENT online connection to play several games. To me, that's unfathomably stupid. The backlash was huge, but it didn't stop them from ruining several games for many people.
Re: Uh Oh, Now Namco Goes for Single 3DS Save File
Bad Namco! Bad!
I long for the days of buying a game and being able to do what you want with it. All these online activations, locking to accounts, messing with save systems - all it does is impact on the legitimate users' experiences.