It's fair to say that there are a lot of fans looking forward to upcoming game Pokémon Sword and Shield that comes to Switch later this year. Because it's the first mainline game since the 3DS-era people are, rightly or wrongly, expecting a fair boost in visual fidelity when it comes to the Pokémon visuals.
Now, an interview with Famitsu has recently caused a stir online with Polygon reporting that Game Freak is indeed creating new models for Pokémon in the latest game (which was also picked up by Eurogamer).
Cue Internet drama. Which for once, isn't completely unfounded. Looking around the comments on articles on the subject or YouTube videos, the debate seems to stem solely from the initial translation of the interview (via reddit) which is often an issue when people use a computer-based translation, such as Google Translate.
We figured that it would be worthwhile getting a professional human translation service (in this case gengo.com) to translate the quote again and see what we get back.
The excerpt we picked was the one immediately following the answer that explained that not all Pokémon would be included in the new game.
Considering the quality of graphics in Pokémon Sword and Shield, it certainly would require considerable time to do that kind of work for every Pokémon.
Masuda: I was personally sad about this decision. Of course, had it been feasible, I would have liked to make it possible to bring every Pokémon into the game. However, this was a choice we needed to make sooner or later. In the end, we had to choose quality.
Ohmori: Masuda and I discussed this issue a great deal. Even for Pokémon Sun and Moon, it was quite a difficult situation (to make it possible to bring every Pokémon into the game). Now that we are moving to the Nintendo Switch and remaking the models from scratch, we had to make some kind of choice. That said, despite the limitation on the Pokémon that can be brought into the game, the game's wild areas, story and other content is quite rich. I believe that players will understand that when they play the game.
Firstly, if you've seen the Google Translate version of these answers, you'll instantly notice the difference in quality. Now, we still don't speak Japanese but the translation we received seems to back up the original report by Polygon.
Case Closed? Probably not. Whilst we don't want to claim ultimate authority on the subject, we wanted to share our findings and perhaps it will help clear up the issue until we (or others) are able to get a straight answer out of Game Freak.
We're sure this won't be the last interview that gets lost in translation; if you speak Japanese and dispute this translation please let us know - maybe we can get our money back.
What do you make of this debate? Does it even matter at the end of the day? Let us know in the comments below. Thanks also to Nick Mosier (@N_Mosier) for help deciphering all of this.
[source famitsu.com]
Comments 117
Now to watch as the comment section turns into people whining about the National Dex, and how the series is suddenly absolutely terrible because of this.
@Fiyaball I'm sure it'll be fine
Good effort on reaching out for an independent translation. Appreciated.
I'm all for a Pokemon cull. This is probably not the best way to go about it.
Inbefore the funny debates started...
@Anti-Matter
I'll take some "sits back and watches"
Ill believe those models that are "made from scratch" are new when the game gets datamined.
@Ardisan yeah, obviously there is still a debate around how much work actually goes into the model - we just wanted to try and clear up what the guy said in the first place
It's interesting how the first half a dozen comments on this article are people waiting to see drama. But I guess that's what the world is now.
It's fairly obvious the national dex had to go and personally I'm not going to miss it. But it was also obvious this would upset people. Having said that, as someone who has worked in the games industry for almost a decade, I don't see what they can do at this point.
I might be the only one happy about a limited national pokedex. Atleast I'll have a close chance to getting it to 100% filled.
Ironically the first comments are people talking complainers.
Glad we got a clear translation on that segment of the interview.
Good to see someone do their due diligence and not use Google translate.
BTW this interview was from over a month ago. I think it's best if we move on from this topic.
Thanks for re-translating, that is actual journalism, a rare thing nowadays.
From what I can see, these new models are definitely based on the previous ones that have served us well for seven whole years, but that doesn't mean it didn't need an overhaul. Here is a quote from ResetERA:
" Updating your engine so it uses modern physics, modern shaders, better animation based solutions, different kind of lighting etc REQUIRES you to check every single old asset you are importing, thats unavoidable! Maybe the polycount needs to be changed, maybe the rigs are acting funky, maybe the textures dont work well with the new lights, maybe all new materials for every creature need to be made. Its a ton of f***ing work that is oftentimes solved by just remaking the damn thing."
As seen here: https://www.resetera.com/threads/new-pok%C3%A9mon-sword-shield-trailer-gigantamaxing-new-pok%C3%A9mon-version-exclusive-gym-leaders-and-pok%C3%A9mon.127862/page-74#post-22727962
@JellyPop
These guys have been in the industry for decades they knew this was going to be a problem with fans and they went with it anyway while digging a hole with statements in a Todd Howard-esque fashion, the solution is as always money which they plenty of, they knew about the Switch and what it’s massive technological jump over 3DS would mean for years and long before we heard the NX rumors but obviously didn’t seem to make a big investment to prepare for it, it seems the decision they made was to use it as scapegoat for a pokeculling that they’ve been wanting to do for a while.
Regardless of how you feel about the many issues leading up to this game, it is inarguably a missed opportunity on Game Freak's part to have passed on innovating with this new Pokemon generation.
Every statement they make is received poorly, and then they have to go into fire-fighting mode to explain themselves (which isn't exactly the ideal marketing campaign for a new game). Uncharacteristically poor project management for this new generation.
What they failed to understand with this release is that, if they knew early on that they needed to cull the number of available Pokemon for this game, they could have used this as an opportunity to develop a completely new Pokemon experience on a fresh system that throws out the Pokemon formula in favor of something different, such as the open world HD Pokemon adventure fans have expressed demand for since the late nineties. They could have taken this entry in a bolder direction, and fans would have been OK with the lack of a National Pokedex and seemingly recycled content like 3D models/animations, etc. because there would be so much more to enjoy in the game, and they would have appreciated that the title is a starting point for a new era of Pokemon games in which their favorite Pokemon would appear in future entries. Instead, they chose to stick to the formula, re-hash the tried and true 3DS engine with an HD upgrade, and introduce yet another per-generation gameplay gimmick, which created initial player disappointment that has only worsened over time with every statement they make regarding the things that aren't in the new game.
Not to say all of this is necessarily bad. I would think of this generation as Pokemon's Skyward Sword moment, a necessary partial misstep where they realize that change is needed for their IP to remain fresh.
@Anti-Matter
They been making 3D Digimon games seens the PSP days and Gamefreak is still having trouble with a franchise that sells like hotcakes? I guess they need to line their pockets instead of getting a bigger staff, like selling a game 3 times a generation is not enough. Do we need to wait for DLC packs to offset the cost of adding more Pokemon?
@Zorox88 : Isn't selling us the same bloody game four times not enough?
@JellyPop Not waiting to see drama. I'm more ready to see it end.
I'm so tired of the few content creators or people of influence creating such hive-minded outrage over everything.
It's time people stop seeing evil in every single company every time they don't get everything exactly as they want.
Here's a game developer's take on why Game Freak made the decision. It's pretty important
https://askagamedev.tumblr.com/post/185566109937/what-do-you-think-was-the-most-likely-reason-that/amp?__twitter_impression=true
So many comments about people waiting to see people get angry lol
@Xelha various quotes from actual game developers who actually know what it is like to make games seem contrary to the conspiracy theorists.
" quality of graphics " lul
This really doesn't help, there's still confusion as to whether or not the models are referring to the 3D Pokémon models for graphics/animation, or development models as in planning or systems.
I sincerely hope that Game Freak aren't communicating that they had to remake all of the models, because that would mean they are either lying, or incompetent.
I'd say there's a reasonable chance that they will simply add all of the past Pokemon, one generation at a time, post-release of Sword and Shield, either as free updates or as part of a season pass.
I don't really mind either way though. I'm skipping this generation in hope that they produce something more inspiring next time.
I do not think there should even be a debate.
The Pokémon Team should've work harder (hire more people) and deliver the ultimate game for the NEW generation of Pokémon. We have the amazing Switch and a Pokémon games that makes the fans sad. Not a great start.
It should've been huge! But no. Now the fans recognise it, that they undertook an impossible task for them.
Let me explain this from a different perspective. Copying and pasting animations from one hardware generation to another isn't very feasible because a lot of the old code for rendering and parsing were based around of the old 3DS's capabilities and not the Switch's. This is why porting old games to newer hardware is difficult. "The animations and models look the same!". Just because they look the same doesn't mean that the process is the same either. This is a keen rule in game development. Let's take an example like the original Resident Evil 2 on N64 and PS1. Sure the two versions look similar to the untrained eye but the process of porting those two were different especially because the N64 used cartridges and had very little memory compared to CDs. The people who did the porting had to find ways to try and compress the files to fit onto a small memory. When it comes to porting or transferring something from one hardware to another, you have to consider the hardware differences in order to create something optimal
Source: https://askagamedev.tumblr.com/post/102545886301/can-you-go-into-the-problems-with-porting-old
@Fiyaball and the people and consistently reduce the whole debate to this single point even when it isn't even remotely about that.
OK, reduce the amount of Pokémon to half or something, but at least make the animations for individual Pokémon as memorable as it was back in Pokémon Colosseum back in 2004. Or Stadium games even before that.
Part of me thinks everyone needs to just chill out and see how the game is and what gameplay elements get added to Pokémon Home in the future, but part of me also loves reading the comments. So, I’m genuinely torn. As if choosing which version I’m going to buy wasn’t already hard enough.
@commentlife I'm personally going for the Cheapest Second Hand Copy I Could Find Version.
@Verg that’ll show em
I’m okay with a Pokémon Skyward Sword and Shield, but just as long as we get more new games soon. Hopefully something to shake up the series as much as Sun/Moon did.
That being said, this is only the first ‘new’ Pokémon generation/game to be on the Switch, I didn’t expect some total revolution to the series, like Zelda BoTW. Because BoTW was technically the last Zelda for the Wii U, not really the first game for the Switch. I wouldn’t expect a Pokémon game to blow us away until a couple more years. (Pls be open world Breath of the Pikachu)
This is literally how the 3ds era of Pokémon games were, some trial and error, mediocre games, and then the super-Ultra Sun/Moon games. Just because it’s on the Switch, it doesn’t and shouldn’t have to be the Ultimate installment, especially if there are games in the series to be on the Switch.
Glad to see an article among the rubbish that actually states that the poorly translated info spreading around like wildfire wasn't entirely accurate.
I speak Japanese, and I interpreted what Omori said as
"Bringing all Pokemon to Sun and Moon was a considerable challenge. With Sword and Shield, since the hardware is the Switch, models need to be rebuilt from scratch".
This is far different from "Every one of the pokemon's models needed to be redone from scratch, and dynamax forms all have their own unique model also made entirely from scratch", which is the misinformation that's been spreading.
The internet truly is just like a game of telephone. When one person with an agenda hears something official, they spin it and say "look the official guy said this! I'm right and all you complaining about dexit are dead wrong hahaha!".
I personally am not overly concerned about Dexit, mainly cause we don't know the reason why pokemon are being cut. The game isn't out, and we're not even close to knowing everything about it.
Alolan forms weren't revealed until August for S/M. For all we know, there could be another really cool and unique mechanic that makes all the Dexit haters be like "oh man, this is really cool, I can totally wait for all old pokemon to come back if it means we're getting this!".
@Xelha the Models are (supposedly) different, I think you mean the crappy animations look the same. Which they do. But GF never said they were changing the animations, just the models, which is definitely believable.
@commentlife Hope so. Not much else I could do.
@xmrmeow
Expect some regional evolutions and the camping feature to be unveiled soon.
My big question has been what does this mean for their other games? Is the still wildly popular Pokémon Go just going to stop after the next generation or so?
Granted, the two games have very different design goals, and animation was never really one of them in PoGo's case, but even with only 4-ish generations in, there's already some balance issues.
If it's a "we don't have enough time to implement 'em all" thing, then perhaps they could use PoGo's approach and roll out additional Pokémon into the game on a regular basis, which I'd be totally fine with since I normally wait a while before purchasing new games anyway.
It's just still so mind-boggling to me that a game that built its identity around collecting its huge variety of fictional creatures would compromise on that central facet.
@Xelha Agreed, but what could they do to the models? Like give them fur or something like Pokken? I mean, I would like that, but they should save that for an open world, ultimate Pokémon. I’m not sure what it takes to make models, so I don’t know whether or not GF is actually working hard on these games. Hopefully, they are.
Honestly, I gave up trying to "catch them all" a long time ago.
It usually required me having to own the previous games (and I usually only owned one version, not both) and partake in special events to get the event-exclusive Pokémon, like Mew or Keldeo.
It was just a waste of time and money for me and my parents, so I never put much effort into "catching them all,' especially when the National Pokédex went over 800.
So really, them not having every previous Pokémon in the new games doesn't upset me as much as it does others.
Relying on Google translate for JPN->ENG translation for professional purposes is just stupid. You can even get the opposite of what something means sometimes.
@westman98
I'm hoping the camping feature was fake. I never was a big fan of the petting and hanging out with your pokemon mechanic of X/Y and S/M. I'd much prefer changes to old pokemon that try to flesh them out more in battle over friendship interactions.
My ideas for things I'd want that would also explain why pokemon need to be cut temporarily:
Old pokemon are getting reworked:
Tag Teams:
@Xelha they should just stick to crunch then. A whole lot of work is going to go into this. Just by changing one small detail of a game, can create incredible issues down the line. Through in a secondary game with some small differences, then throw in the fact you’re still working on hardware that you don’t have the most experience with. Then also throw in 800+ Pokemon, each with IV’s and EV’s that all need balancing, especially when you consider Pokemon is battled competitively and you have so much work. Something had to give. Smash has what 70+ fighters and takes an age between releases. Tekken is the same. This isn’t even including all engine upgrades, localisation, story, game planning, raid multiplayer battles and I could go on. So I often get annoyed when I see the expression not using “effort”. They don’t just make Pokemon and then you have a game. Personally I wouldn’t mind if the game got delayed 12 months we got all the Pokemon. But these developers are against strict deadlines and deserve our respect. It’s a person in a suit that will make all of the decisions on release. NOT the developers. I also don’t remember people being so bitter when Sapphire and Ruby released. Also who knows what’s coming next year in Ultra Sword or whatever the name is.
Also I work as game tester at Sony and previously worked at Rockstar Lincoln. I know what happens during development.
@xmrmeow
Some 4Chan leaker who has been spot on about the game thus far mentioned regional evolutions and camping.
That's not to say the leaker has leaked everything Sword/Shield has to offer, but expect those two features to be unveiled alongside some new Pokemon.
@SmaMan That's been one of my other questions. They've stated that future games would have the Pokemon not available in Sword and Shield. So what exactly does that mean? Exactly how many games will one need to buy to use their Pokemon in game? Will these games connect if theoretically they're home to different Pokemon not featured in another? How exactly does that work out?
Said it before and I'll say it again, I find it really hard to have much of an opinion beyond "that's a bit of a bummer" without knowing how many pokemon are actually in the regional dex. If it's only got 150 that's a huge problem, if it got 400 its bearly an inconvenience (in comparison)
Hadn't heard of this interview before, or controversy surrounding it, but since there's a lot of interesting details in there, I thought I'd do a personal translation of the whole thing: https://pastebin.com/raw/2BN7YC9Z
Seeing the full thing in context answers more questions, so it seemed worth translating. As for whether they really are remaking the models from scratch... I guess we'll really find out when dataminers get into the games.
Stop being a bunch of whiny kids. Until you have made a video game you have no room to complain about this. If it really bugs you so much, don’t buy the game. It’s as simple as that. The world is going to crap and all you care about is a video game. If you’re going to complain, complain about the state of the world.
@Pokefanmum82 Calling people whiny kids is not how you debate nor make a point.
@adema16 The thing is that Smash Bros. is actually a balanced game, and even gets regular updates to tweak the balance even further. Pokémon, on the other hand, has about 20 extremely powerful/versatile creatures (not counting Legendary Pokémon, because those are usually banned anyway even if they're really weak) that blow all of the hundreds upon hundreds of others out of the water. Some types are really weak, some are really strong. Game Freak created Fairy type to 'balance out' Dragon type, despite the fact that Dragon isn't even a very good type, it's just that they nearly always give that type to the most powerful Pokémon in the games so it looks like it's more powerful than it really is. Game Freak created Mega Evolutions to balance out the competitive game, but handed out those Mega Evolutions almost exclusively to Pokémon that were already among the most powerful to start with (bar some exceptions like Beedrill), and then proceeded to make those Mega Evolutions extremely powerful in their own right, making the competitive aspect entirely about Mega Evolutions. Pokémon is not a balanced game at all and Game Freak is either clueless or completely uninterested in truly balancing the game to make more than just the handful of Ubers competitively viable.
@westman98 There's a decent chance it's real, but lots of leakers in the past throw in a few false details of their own ideas into real information they obtain. A lot of the time a leak has like 10 things leaked, 9 of which are real and 1 is something they just made up and tossed in. As of now we know a good amount of the leak has been confirmed, but camping still isn't guaranteed. It would be cool, I'm just saying there's other things I'd like done more with old pokemon than making them more fun to play with out of battle.
@Pokefanmum82 "Stop being a bunch of whiny kids. Until you have run a government you have no room to complain about your country's economy being run into the ground. If it really bugs you so much, don’t vote for those politicians. It’s as simple as that. The world is going to crap and all you care about is your country's economy. If you’re going to complain, complain about the state of the world."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism
Edit: actually, it's probably more of a false dilemma/red herring (appeal to worse problems) than whataboutism. Still, nothing but a fallacy, as you can see.
@Luffymcduck These are my thoughts. Battles still look stiff and lifeless. They may be telling the truth about remaking the models but it’s a shame they passed up the chance to make them look nicer and improve the animations.
I’ll probably pick it up but I’m more excited for Yo Kai Watch 4, something I never thought I’d say.
Lost in translation...
I still don't understand why the icecream and garbage Pokemon made the cut.
@graysoncharles I'm with you on most of those points... except, they sold that Pokemon Box Service explicitly stating that it was a future-proof solution to bringing your Pokemon to future games... and that was only the case, what... once? From Gen 6 to 7?
But of course, now you've got all your 'mons up there... shame if something were to happen to them. Better keep paying Gamefreak!
@nintendoknife your points are certainly fair and correct and I respect your opinion (thanks for being civil) game freak have certainly created themselves a somewhat un-winnable situation, but my main point is that I’m excited to see what they bring to the table and I look forward to a knew adventure and I wish people was stop s***ting on developers that are going to work and just doing as they are told. But again as for the competitive scene your argument is spot on.
@Sandro89 The same reason the pebble Pokémon and toxic waste Pokémon did.
@graysoncharles Your first points speak to entirely different scenarios. All those you mentioned allowed for at least some measure of connectivity among each other, with all Pokemon being able to be funneled into a game or two.
Here, we are literally talking about the Dex being split apart. So my question isn't about concern of losing your Pokemon. I understand if I pay a fee every month, my Pokemon will (theoretically) be fine in the cloud.
The question I am asking is what exactly kind of connectivity among the games (if any) are we talking about when either the third Galar game is released or if the next games are remakes of some sorts and are home to the other 500 Pokemon? How does that connection among the games work if they're both featuring Pokemon that can't transfer to the other? Are we then talking about mainline Pokemon games on the same generation of consoles that don't feature any kind of means of connectivity? Unless we're now talking about later games that do include every Pokemon. But then that begs the question: Why couldn't Sword and Shield be that game from the beginning?
Let me also make it clear I am not asking these questions as a means to attack Game Freak. And I'll also acknowledge I'm sure there is probably more information coming down the road.
And here I am just looking forward to the new games regardless of what Pokemon may or may not be included
@adema16 You certainly aren't wrong that the real blame lies with the executives, but I see it more as though people are saying that the executives are lazy rather than them saying that the actual developers are sloths. If anyone is actually directing their anger toward the employees themselves, they should probably get their heads checked.
However, despite the employees not being the ones to blame for decisions made from higher up, there is simply no denying that Game Freak's programmers (not the artists or writers) quite frankly aren't very good at programming overall. One of the most recent examples is how Viridian Forest suffered from serious slowdown in Pokémon Let's Go. It's an area you enter after less than 20 minutes of playtime in a graphically simple game on the same pretty powerful console that also runs games like Breath of the Wild, Mario Odyssey or Dragon Quest XI, even Doom and Wolfenstein. You would almost have to be programming it badly on purpose to get it to lag with that much horsepower to tap into, and yet they managed to make it lag. Another slightly older example is how in Sun and Moon (and Ultra Sun/Moon), character models are duplicated across all areas in which they appear, because instead of referencing the model from one folder, Game Freak's programmers decided to copy and paste it to every folder for every environment where that character at any point in the game shows up. Another example: why do you think it can sometimes take a noticeably long time for the opposing trainer to give a command, even though they only have four moves and perhaps another Pokémon to choose from? Because Game Freak's programmers fundamentally misunderstand how to run calculations simultaneously. Or way back in the day, Game Freak could not fit the entirety of the Johto region on one cartridge, until Satoru Iwata single-handedly fixed all of the code and managed to put in the Kanto region as well. That was one guy, who did all of that all by himself, fixing nearly all of Game Freak's bad code, massively optimising it and adding the feature Gold and Silver are so well-known for, the second region - and still, he managed to have a reasonable amount of space left on the cartridges. The guy is a legend for good reason. It's a real shame he's longer here.
@nintendoknife
I always assumed character models were duplicated in Sun/Moon due to the limited memory capabilites of the 3DS.
Viridian Forest having frame rate issues boggles my mind, considering that the Wild Area (a considerably more ambitious region) in Sword/Shield runs without any noticeable frame rate problems if E3 impressions are to be believed.
@Anti-Matter I'll take some
then why are they identical? doesn't make the situation better
@nintendoknife exactly this.
What baffles me is that there are people defending the quality of games ive seen popping around lately. Its these people who call others ”entitled children” because they dont have the capicity to argue or understand other people. Quite frankly, i dont care that much about reused Pokemon models. Just my opinion. The thing that amazes me is how hilarious the game looks. That rabbits double kick, Steelix popping in from nowhere and Charizard shooting fire over its right side of the head instead of the mouth, im speechless. This is 3DS level, not Switch.
@Pokefanmum82 Do you think reviewers all make video games? Do you think games automatically improve on their own without critizism or complaints? Why should the series that ive grown with, ive played when I was a kid, a series that made a impact on my life and the same for others not deserve valid criticism?
Would Bloodstained been successful?
Would the Sonic the Hedgehog movie team decide to revise how Sonic looks?
Are we "whiny kids" for wanting a product from our favorite series to be better than what they are giving us so far or are you Pokefanmum82 just incapable of accepting critisism of the game you might view positively then we do?
Does anyone think we might be entering the "dark ages" of Pokemon? Come on, every series goes through one for a few years, right? Mario Bros. had the weird Sunshine years, Zelda had the Philips CD-i games, and Pokemon...now has an incomplete Pokedex. We'll just have to wait and see...
@Anti-Matter Wow, Nick Cage sure needs money. He's working in a movie theater! Was Left Behind that bad?
Yeah, I'll have some popcorn.
@Samsamsam
The Steelix and Charizard moves are glitches that will (hopefully) get fixed.
Double kick is here to stay.
@graysoncharles Whoa people really did that to him?
@graysoncharles That's not entirely true. I was able to complete the dex in Gen 6 and 7 without paying the $5 and without owning the older games by using the GTS, Wonder Trade, and breeding. I've never personally transferred old Pokémon forward, but I have definitely benefited from the feature being available to others and am bummed out that I won't be able to complete the dex again in the first game on the TV. Also I never had shinies before. Now that I actually have a couple sitting in my Gen 7 carts, I would like to move those forward but might not be able to.
@graysoncharles,
First world problems at their finest,the game and the Pokemon look fine to me,of course it's all opinions at the end of the day and the people who do not like the new game will never be convinced otherwise,so I just like watching them complain on each thread with the same old arguments,well everyone has to have a hobby don't they.
Graphically the games still look and run terribly, just like the 3DS ones did, but this time they can't blame it on the hardware. Game Freak are either lazy, or really bad programmers/optimisers.
For the record, I don't care about the fact that not all the Pokémon are there; I never tried to get them all anyway. However, Pokémon is not a niche, indie game series, this is one of the most lucrative franchises in all of media; there is no excuse whatsoever for the games to look as bad as they do. They need delayed to be made better, but Game Freak are rushing them out and coasting on the brand name.
@graysoncharles Just cause there are far worse problems doesn't mean we shouldn't be criticizing this. It is our right as consumers being sold a product. By the logic you guys are using, I could tell you to not waste $60 on a kid's game and instead give it to things that really matter like charity. So, we can very well criticize this game and Gamefreak has most certainly given us plenty to criticize.
Just watched the E3 TreeHouse gameplay. The game looks like a true leap forward as far as the graphics go, compared to the 3DS games. I am baffled that so many people are complaining about the quality of the graphics. I was initially disappointed about the National Pokedex being cut, but I've accepted it. It's like a fresh start. Truly looking forward to the game.
@Pokefanmum82 This is my favorite kind of argument. It just screams "Stop criticizing my beloved franchise, it hurts my feelings". You're adding nothing to this discussion.
If you really like Pokémon Sword & Shield from what we've seen so far you should tell the community why you feel that way. Same goes for everyone who dislikes the Game. That's why websites like this one exist.
Every single Sword/Shield thread and story now is a forest fire. EVERY SINGLE ONE. By the way, it is apparently an international crime not to agree with the hate. You have to dislike this game or fear the angry wrath of two dozen or more "fans" telling you why you are wrong.
@Nagi_Nagisa You can't. I've tried that. Everywhere I've seen people talking about the game anyone who has anything positive to say is shot down and called "part of the problem". Doesn't matter that I love this British inspired setting. Doesn't matter that I love the idea of Pokemon in HD on TV or on the go. Doesn't matter than I like almost all of the new Pokemon designs so far. Doesn't matter than I really really like many of the new NPC designs. Doesn't matter that a free roaming camera wild area and raid battles look really cool. No national dex and "bad" or reused animations apparently kill the game. It's the worst game ever made. We should all go play ET on Atari instead.
@Heavyarms55 you cant please some people these days especially people bashing pokemon sword and shield nonstop.
I speak and read Japanese, and the Gengo translation is spot on.
If you don't think it looks good, that's a fair opinion and you're welcome to it - they can have redone everything and done a poor job of it. I don't really agree, but I won't say you can't feel how you feel. To say they're trying to obfuscate the truth because they're lazy is just utter nonsense, though. It's a Pokemon game, guys. Stop treating it like it matters enough for that level of gamesmanship.
I speak Japanese and I just signed up so I could just say that this translation is spot on.
They wanted to bring every single Pokemon but it was a difficult task to do. On top of that, the hardware is the Nintendo Switch so they had to remake the models from the beginning.
In conclusion, they definitely remade the models for the new pokemon game. There is no doubt in that. If you guys want to bring more pokemons from a different game, they would also have to remake them as well.. because they are using the nintendo switch as the hardware.
This is... troublesome if it is the correct translation. As others have stated, this is probably worse than actually porting the models, with the case of Gyarados, you can see that would mean they even replicated the low-poly whiskers.
My biggest problem is that this isn't something I recall any prior dev stating they have issues with. There are several 3DS ports/multiplats on the Switch such as Monster Hunter XX, Hyrule Warriors (All 3 versions use the same models), Captain Toad, and Alliance Alive. None of these devs mentioned anything about recreating all the 3D assets from scratch... which you would think might have popped up in an interview at least once between a dozen games?
Or any port ever, for that matter, unless it's a case like Kingdom Hearts where all the original files were lost.
@RiasGremory The thing is, for any other game, people would not act this way. New COD look bad? People grumble for a day and move on. New Fallout was trash? Make a meme out of it and life goes on. New Pokemon game look bad? Weeks of anger and outrage!
"Even for Pokémon Sun and Moon, it was quite a difficult situation (to make it possible to bring every Pokémon into the game)."
Stay tuned for them unironically claiming they had to remake all the models from X and Y for that, too.
As the article and @bluesun ‘s translation attest, the original quote simply claims that the shift to new hardware demanded models to be rebuilt. I think “rebuild models from scratch” is about as natural translation of モデルを最初から作り直す as you can get. If you want to be more painstakingly literal you could go for “remake models from the start”, but... well, it means pretty much the same thing, doesn’t it.
In either language there are a few ways you can parse this. One is that rebuilding “from the start” means everything is brand-spanking-new and borrows nothing from older titles. The other is that they just rebuilt the old models in the new graphics engine. Even if the end result isn’t ‘new’ (and it’s worth nothing this word isn’t used at all regarding the models or animations), it could still take resources. For example, rebuilding my original Mario Maker levels in SMM2 would still take a fair bit of effort, even if nothing was changed.
As a layman, I don’t know how labour intensive the process really is; whether it involves painstakingly replicating every wire frame, or just C&Ping the Pokemon’s data from old games and leaving it at that. My guess is neither of these extremes, but I don’t know.
Either way, I think it’s worth seeking clarification, but too early to be making accusations of downright lying when the statement itself is somewhat open to interpretation.
@Heavyarms55,
Ah but as we all know the moaners arguments are far more valid than everybody else's,which is why I always find these comment sections so entertaining.
I will say that just because a polygon model is identical, doesn't necessarily mean it wasn't made from scratch. If it is using a different engine / assets, then it's possible they remade the model using schematics. Industry use formulations etc so they can make every lipstick of a certain colour identical for example. I don't see too many folk theorising they are buying the same lipstick over and over lol.
So sure, it might look like identical models, but without knowing the software used etc, it's not very conclusive. Game development requires so much resources these days that this sort of thing is going to become very common practice, so I would start getting used to it now lol. I am happy to take Game Freak's word on this. Nintendo are very up front about their games, so I'm going to assume Game Freak are by association.
"What you interfere with now is bigger than you can imagine."
@Zuljaras It's not even that they should hire more people, they are already around a hundred (!) but they need to stop working on multiple projects at once.
They were working on Sword and Shield while working on Ultra Sun and Moon, and now they are working on both the next Pokemon game (already ? Well yeah I guess they still need to release that "ultimate" version every generation gets) and Town. Like wtf ?
They just want to release a Pokemon game every year but with Town they also want to be able to survive if the Pokemon Company and Nintendo gets rid of them.
They sure did every model from scratch when X and Y were released. X wasn't a very good Pokemon, but hey, they did the assets from scratch so to me, that's still great work. It's just that doing some animations isn't their priority. But it's still shameful to see some garbage chinese mobile game ripoff making every model from scratch with actual animations ... and it looks hella great, that's unbelievable.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3OVUM3ltFA
Just look at that ffs. Don't tell me that it's because of the costs or whatever, it's made by some random chinese people who don't even have the rights to make this game, they surely have way less money to make this, but Gamefreak can't ?
@LightBeam Ok, the animations in that video look amazing.
But I guess the official games will be stuck with lesser quality.
Also why are we still with Pokémon Cries? For nostalgic reasons?
@Mycroft I was thinking the same thing. Even if, instead of a year from now, it was a few weeks or months after release. This is probably the biggest internet meltdown I've encountered. I'm curious to see the "community" response after release. Like, when the game reviews well (because let's face it, even the worst mainline Pokemon games are still good games) are all of the reviewers going to be traitorous corporate shills paid off by Game Freak, Nintendo, and the Pokemon Company, or will they be failures of journalism because they didn't join the hate train? Personally, I'm as interested in seeing how well these games reviews and their sales numbers as I am in the games themselves.
I dont hate these changes but they are disappointing. I have played my fair share of turn based RPGs and pokemon is easily the most boring. I mean after playing Persona 5 I am hooked on that game. Let me say too I hate 75% of RPG's so me saying that is a big deal.
It's just crazy that Gamefreak has more money than roughly 95% of all game companies and their games are so boring. I don't hate pokemon but the formula gets stale.
Are we allowed to post articles from other sites? This article sheds some light on the animations from that knockoff app game.
Spoiler alert: they are animations stolen from Pokken Tournament.
https://www.polygon.com/platform/amp/2019/7/15/20694863/pokemon-sword-shield-controversy-bootleg-game-animation
@graysoncharles Except you know full well not every person that is criticizing the game is doing it the same way as each other. Not to mention the same amount of people defending the game claiming that we're whining, that we're selfish and entitled. They're acting as though we want the games to not exist anymore when what we want is a far better product from a company that makes millions times more money than most other companies. It's not one sided.
It doesn't matter if we're not being forced to buy it. They are still advertising this product to us, the consumers, to give judgment and decide whether we want it or not. Whether you like how people pass their judgment is an entirely different matter, but critiques are warranted especially when they claim they couldn't get all pokemon to work on improving the graphics and animation, then proceed to show us graphics that look generations behind with animations like NPCs still moving like robots, and you've probably seen all the other stuff as well like Charizard shooting fire out the side of his head, etc.
@Batty5 "a true leap forward as far as the graphics go, compared to the 3DS games."
Might I suggest you look up "Pokémon Sun Citra emulator gameplay" on YouTube? The 3DS games, when played on a high resolution screen, look nearly identical to the Switch games.
@nintendoknife No, the 3DS games on emulators do not look close to the Sword and Shield gameplay we have seen to me. Sword and Shield look so much better. But that is just my opinion.
I wonder if they could have gone retro, done a sprite based game with maybe 3D enhanced lighting and effects, similar to Octopath Traveler(for the lighting and effects) and gotten all 1000+ Pokemon into the game? Would have been an interesting approach.
@nintendoknife I'm sorry but that's simply not true. I have the models from the 3DS Pokemon games on my PC and while there is a noticeable rise in quality, they are not on the same level as on the Nintendo Switch. Even the models in Pokemon Let's Go had to have their textures improved because doing nothing with them would have made the Pokemon look terrible in comparison to everything else.
At this point, Gamefreak have caught themselves in a no-win situation. If they are not lying and they are indeed making new models from scratch, they are morons because the 3DS Models can easily be upscaled to HD as proven by Pokemon Let's Go.
If they are reusing models then they are just liars trying to deceive their supporters.
Come on, you KNOW the line " Because it's the first mainline game since the 3DS-era people are, rightly or wrongly, expecting a fair boost in visual fidelity when it comes to the Pokémon visuals." before Switch Lite's introduction would have read " Because it's the first mainline game since the 3DS-era ON A HOME CONSOLE people are, rightly or wrongly, expecting a fair boost in visual fidelity when it comes to the Pokémon visuals."
Suddenly you can't call the Switch a home console, because if Switch Lite is a home console, why can't it connect to a television??
@NCChris Well, naturally the textures were updated, and some lighting effects were changed. However, the wireframes of the models weren't - though I'm not complaining about that, because the wireframes were/are, other than some minor nitpicks on a handful of models, really good.
Edit: I hadn't seen your second post yet, looks like we don't even disagree.
@JellyPop "first half a dozen"...Why didn't you just say six?
@Alex0714
News just in: there are multiple different ways to say the same thing!
@JellyPop I know lol, but I was just wondering.😅
Oh dear, look at all the unaware whiners whining about people whining. It's almost like humans are no longer self aware.
It's almost as good as the anti-censorship crowd unwittingly wanting censorship of people they disagree with on every game review.
@graysoncharles I'm not whining.
I find it hilarious and amazing.
@gamefreak77 Whether it can connect to a television or not is irrelevant. If it runs the same exact games as the home console (for the most part) then it is just a more portable home console variant.
@LightBeam Did those guys actually create the 3d models from scratch? I'm pretty sure that they could have just exported the models from pokemon x and y or Sun and Moon. There's a way to do it, kind of like how it was done with this Ace Attorney game.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xDCtNSXxsA
I'm pretty sure GameFreak is lying because them making models over seems very unconvincing. The reason I think this is because when you're making a game, the rigging, models, animations, and textures have to be completed first in a program such as 3ds Max, Maya, Blender, and so on. Then those models with the animations need to be exported from the 3d animation program and imported into the game engine that will run those animations when appropriate. So with that being said, how does it make sense that models WITH animations completed for them, would have to be remade? Why was this not an issue for the 3ds which was an inferior system compared to the Switch? My primary point being, if they would have to remake the models, and re-rig the models, how would they not get the same issue again. After all, if their game engine won't accept exported models with animations, then why would it accept them if they redid them? Honestly, there's too many unanswered questions, and it seems very sketchy.
@graysoncharles Just because some people are overreacting doesn't mean that the criticisms against Gamefreak are invalid though, if that's what you're implying. And sure, there are other things more important in the world going on, but the conversation isn't really about that.
@Maxz What's weird is why would they have to remake the models? Why would they keep trying to model and import into a game engine that they claim rejected their older models? It would make more sense to fix their game engine, rather than to throw away hundreds of modeled Pokemon, which is part of the reason why it does seem like they're lying.
@BigMike777 That's actually a good question. Maybe they ripped the assets, however I don't think the animations are coming from a Pokemon game so I assume those are new
@BigMike777 Like I said, I’m layman: I don’t know. But here’s an article by someone who’s not a layman on why moving from one generation of consoles to other is not as simply as just hitting C&P. https://askagamedev.tumblr.com/post/102545886301/can-you-go-into-the-problems-with-porting-old
@Aeleron0X — Then, Game Freak should've delayed the release date to give them more time to work on it. Going to the Gameboy Advanced to the Nintendo DS (from Gen 3 to Gen 4) was a 2-3 year gap. Pokemon USUM was released in 2017, and then the Let's Go game came out in 2018, and now SwSh in 2019. And on top of the "Town" game, this is why GF is struggling! The company only has 143 employees, and they're biting off more than they can chew. GF needs to be reminded that they don't need to release a Pokemon game every year. And if they still want to, then they need to hire more people (specifically devs who have experience developing for the Switch).
The President of the Pokemon Company initially thought the Switch would flop, so he likely didn't make plans to release on the Switch. Seeing its massive success, The Pokemon Co. and Game Freak was more than likely pushed into releasing Sword and Shield on the Switch. GF, a company with only 143 employees, in the span of two years, is working on (or has worked on) three Switch games (Let's Go, SwSh, and "Town").
It's no wonder why they struggled with developing for the Switch. I have a good hunch that Sword and Shield started off as 3DS games, and were rushed into being ported for the Switch. I feel like it's not a budget issue, since Pokemon is one of the most successful video game franchises in the world.
The issue is taking on too many projects while being undermanned and making the release date too soon.
With that said, I hope Game Freak has learned its lesson and will do a much better job with their future Pokemon games.
@darkwinter8 Delaying a game doesn't always work mainly because it costs a lot of money. By delaying a game, the marketing team has to readjust its target which can invalidate millions of dollars in already spent marketing material. As a business, you have to ask yourselves these questions: How much do we need the money right now and can we survive without it? How will delaying a game impact the earnings report as well as relations with shareholders? How much can we make if we release it now vs later? If we release later, will other Switch games compete and cannibalize our sales? These are some of the questions that businesses have to think about before deciding to delay a game. Not to mention, Pokemon is a franchise that also produces toys, cards, animations, etc. If they delay Sw&Sh later, then would they have to delay those other stuff as well? It's not as simple as it looks
SOURCE: https://askagamedev.tumblr.com/post/175748637631/when-people-see-a-game-which-launches-messy-but/amp?__twitter_impression=true
https://askagamedev.tumblr.com/post/185911304366/isnt-another-way-of-throwing-more-money-at-the/amp?__twitter_impression=true
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