Nintendo, Sony And Microsoft Band Together To Fight Tariffs On Video Game Consoles

It would be nice if manufacturing went back to Japan as it seems like we were getting the highest quality electronics then, but at the same time you wouldn't want to be paying a lot more. As for Microsoft I have always been disappointed with the reliability of their hardware, but I remember a lot of the American computer companies making great hardware back when it was still made in the USA. Quality all around seems to drop with Chinese manufacturing, and the work conditions are questionable at best.

I doubt any government officials in the world will take gaming companies' pleas seriously.

so i'm supposed to cheer for these sweat shops?
These people live where they work in order to survive.
They have safety nets around the buildings so they don't jump off.

Except it was problematic to have relied on foreign production in the first place. Try not relying on China, guys. It'd be more expensive but better in the long run. >

well im not looking forward to paying a thousand bucks for a console, that's all i can say

Everyone is just looking out for their bottom line.

Well if corporations are banding together, it's probably for something unethical.

@SlyPlayr09 that’s not the point and won’t be the result of these tariffs tbh. Not saying I’m against them, they just may only mean paying more taxes to the government, not a move in production, change in quality or change in the supply chain or labor that’s used. It’s worth keeping in mind.

Nice, but companies shouldn’t be making them in, nor supporting concentration camp China. Screw that country and the atrocities they enact on the people.

I love it when someone claims something is made more poorly in China. China makes product exactly as they're dictated to by a company. If they wanted it higher quality it would be higher quality regardless of where it's made.

May they win too. Trump doesn't do anything good for anyone.

I don't want to get all political in a place that I visit to escape the reality of what's going on... but I think there are too many people suggesting that companies should ditch a country that we (American economy, at least) rely so heavily on... and, to be fare, has a direct impact on the small business person. I speak from experience since part of the reason my business was closed was companies preparing for the worst with these tariffs. My video equipment costs spiked considerably, projects I assumed were in the bag were cancelled and a bunch of clients went somewhere else... as in across the ocean to places where they can get "bargain" prices for work. I lost something I was incredibly passionate about because I what I do and how I do it as a small company. I didn't get the mega tax break or help when this type of thing happens. I know it's frustrating to hear big companies complain, but the impact is real and it's taking waves of businesses with it.

Sadly, one of my last projects spoke to small businesses and how they can't survive massive shifts... don't I know it.

Sorry for venting... back to games!

Oh wow, I am so pleasantly surprised to see such a large amount of good comments on this- yeah, moving manufacturing from China stinks now (but only in terms of raising costs for us), but it's gonna happen sometime. And the rest of the world is going to benefit

@Tasuki it's a nice idea in theory, but you'll end up paying A LOT more for product, and raise your cost of living, while the service industry goes to hell.

Majority of Americans don't even want manufacturing jobs. It is an industry better suited for a developing country.

Unless we are going to let more immigrants in bc that's who would fill the positions in that industry if it grew in America.

What have these tariffs done other than reshuffle a deck of cards, for a game that was rigged against the majority of people anyway. If the point was to increase manufacturing in the US, it has been a massive failure. The biggest result of this debacle has been just to make consumer goods more expensive and further sour international relations. The US corporations have already sold the worker out decades ago, so to come back later and “blame the Chinese” now is idiotic.

@Tasuki While I would love more jobs in the US... the problem is, the cost would be crazy. Americans want a minimum $15/hr to work while the same job can be completed, the item shipped on a slow boat and make it to the shores for far less. And I can speak to the fact that projects I was going to work on were cancelled and given to countries like India for a fraction of what I could do the work for (i.e. - one client was quoted $5/hr for animation and created by a team in half the time I quoted). I can't live off that price so bringing it all "home" isn't as easy as it sounds.

Also give me a break- these corporations act like they're looking out for poor people who can't afford video games. When what they're really saying is we aren't taking a pay cut, were gonna pass the costs of this on to the consumer.

Developed countries didn't want the manufacturing jobs back in the days, it's not like Manufacturing countries suddenly stole the product to manufacture. Companies would rather swallow the new tariffs then bringing back the factories in their own country. It's just too expensive in terms of costs. (setting up, labour, training, sourcing,...)

People say bring back the factories but no one in the US wants a factory job unless it pays a CEO salary.

China needs to be punished somehow...but sadly that means we get punished too. Its a lose lose scenario, just like everything in politics

@hakjie11 As long as I can make $22/hr delivering food (GrubHub, southwest AZ) I can see why people wouldn't want half that for a backbreaking factory job.

@TeslaChippie and these tariffs hurt someone in your line of work. First thing people would cut out of their budget is delivery services if prices go up due to tariffs

@PBandSmelly Punished? What has China done?

@boywundr There was a time when high quality products were manufactured in the US and it was made affordable enough for the average consumer though. Most families also worked one stable job that paid well and provided great benefits. The problem is Neoliberalism policies and Americans willing to shoulder more debt, has resulted in most people accepting stunted living standards. The great irony is the America that most supporters of Trump idolize was actually a result of greater government intervention and more Union organization. It really is a profound irony, right?

@Tasuki assuming they don’t figure out how to make a machine do the work? There is a reason that we have self checkouts, atms, face time for doctors. Pfft no one wants to pay for an American worker.

@SNES64DD
Oh boy, this will take a couple months to explain. Just think of them as North Korea 2

I remember when tarrifs became so 19th century in America. Now they're making a comeback.

Hm, while China astounds me with their multitudinous human rights violations, tariffs don’t exactly strike me as the best course of action as it hits ordinary citizens just as much as the governments. Of course, China having concentration camps full of Uyghur Muslims is deplorable but Trump has migrant children locked up in facilities eerily similar. While grandstanding politicians claim that they’re ‘humane, very humane, the most humane society the world’s ever seen’, they will always be about the bottom dollar. Especially if they have vested business interests...

It's not just consumers who would be hurt too. Countless people could lose their jobs in the US, China, Japan, and elsewhere. This would damage the video game industry as a whole, hurting everyone from the consumers to the executives of game companies. It would hurt the parts suppliers, the shipping companies, the retailers, the news websites the YouTubers the Twitch streamers...

But I promise you, the cheeto in the White House couldn't possibly care less. All he cares about is getting his own way. The only way Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft could stop this is to make him think it would hurt him too.

Good lord do I hate politics these days. I hate all of it. Trump, America, China, Iran, the left, the right and everything in between! All they do is make things worse for everyone but themselves. Sometimes everyone including themselves because most of them are indeed that stupid!

@Tempestryke What's wrong with a great economy, become energy independent, reduce taxes to a 60-year low, reducing unemployment, protect borders, protect law enforcement, protect unborn babies, and protect free speech?

That "doesn't do anything good for anyone", how?

In 2020, hindsight will be perfect.

@nessisonett It didn't start with Trump. Illegal immigrant children have always been detained so that they don't flee as officials look them up to find out who they really are & where they came from. You can't just trust that the adults they came with are their legit parents because in many cases they aren't.

@Tasuki You is right. Sure, costs will go up but many industries will thrive when our products are domestic.

So long as we need to build pencils for instance, the companies who supply the wood, lead, aluminum, rubber and yellow paint will continue to thrive.

That is the essence of capitalism which has lifted 90 percent of the world out of poverty.

Huh, I was expecting general ignorance of Chinese human rights abuses and religious persecution, and for the general tendency to be to think that if America's current president suggested it, it must be bad by default, but it seems like there are some comments that recognize that China's government is doing some pretty messed up stuff and that Chinese manufacturing is doing some pretty messed up stuff. That doesn't necessarily mean that tariffs are the right thing or wrong thing to do in this case, but I'm an American: I don't expect anything from people when it comes to being aware of international affairs. I'm impressed.

Just here to sample the tone of the comments. No surprises so far

An out of touch, grifting neanderthal thinking he can bring manufacturing back: an industry that people not only don't want to work in, but is being made obsolete through new technologies and automation.

Bravo, douche-lon don. 🙄 It's laughable. DUMP CHUMP.

Yet another Switch Tax. It stated in the letter that it would be more expensive than the tariff to move production out of China. This means that the manufacturing will most likely continue in China for a while. Games (and other things) will be more expensive because of this tax, especially during the coming Christmas. Over time manufacturing will move to other countries but I wouldn't assume that manufacturing would move to the USA. I would guess that manufacturing would move to other parts of Asia. My suggestion would be to make the Switch Pro digital only to avoid the tariff on games.

Briefly wanders into comment section

@PBandSmelly Nearly 1.4 billion people would disagree with you there. China isn't NK and even NK isn't what it seems.

@Tasuki Seriously? The US doesn’t have the ability, or manufacturing infrastructure to produce products like this on the scale required to supply normal demand.

As for taxing a consumer product with the expectation that it will somehow influence a shift in manufacturing locations, I’m sorry but that’s not how it works. The consumer ends up paying more for the product in the end. The companies have the same cost margins per counsel/item. There is little, if any, reason for any of these companies to undertake the massive cost of not only building a manufacturing facility, but also finding/training skilled workers for said facility.

China and the surrounding countries are the technological powerhouses. They have the infrastructure, they have the skilled labor, and they are geographically close to all of their suppliers. The US is, at best, two decades behind China. At worst, the US is so far behind that there is no foreseeable way for them to catch up.

@ComposedJam i mean, it’s not like you can balance the other consoles on top of it

@Moistnado nobody in thier right mind is going to go for a digital only console, a pro one at that.

@graysoncharles The problem is that import tariffs are being imposed on a populace whose wages has stagnated and are taking in higher amounts of debt. Increasing the price of consumer goods in an economy where 40% can’t afford a $400 medical emergency, is not the right course of action.

I agree that protectionist government policies, like tariffs, could work in a well functioning economy but America isn’t there.

I’m not for bailouts either, since that only shifts the burden back on the average tax payer. Maybe I was unclear about my position about the role of government in creating jobs. I’m for federal and state funding being used to provide the infrastructure and resources necessary for industry to be created. It was a combination of the lack of any preventive laws and neoliberalism, which led to the abandonment of factories in the US.

I’m not entirely sure what the best course of action is now, but reading and looking at the consequences so far of the Trump administration’s policies, had led me to the conclusion that this is only exasperating the problem.

@mozzy1,

The big companies know it's going to be tough to pass the increases on to the consumer,hell it's hard enough to get people to buy an Xbox One at a low price already...so they are just trying to get a reduction on the costs.

Not that the Trump Administration affects me
*Laughs in English

Wow this comment section. Im really surprised how civil everyone is. No one is telling anyone else to kys. Everyone has opinions but are respectful and well communicated......Glad that many of us are adults or at least know how to act like one. I give this website an A+

While I love Nintendo and I tolerate Microsoft and Sony, these companies are not fighting to keep costs low for the end consumer, they are arguing in favor of maintaining the status quo of producing their goods through China, which has positioned itself as the global manufacturing hub through the combination of many strategic infrastructure accommodations for businesses as well as entirely illicit practices, including child labor, slave wages, inhumane working conditions, sweat shops, etc.. Every Halloween in America, it is not uncommon to read news stories about consumers opening purchased costumes and other cheap materials of Chinese origin that, to their surprise, came packaged with small folded notes in a child's Mandarin begging for help, with their names and the addresses of their factories hastily-scribbled in the margins. This bizarre position of advocating for continued use of China as part of the manufacturing pipeline, while cheered on by those in the media, is essentially the modern day equivalent of arguing in favor of continued slavery prior to its abolishment in Europe and the Americas.

Culling the hot-bed of corruption and human rights abuses that is the Chinese manufacturing industry is a short-term pain that will lead to a fair global manufacturing landscape where countries that do not subject its citizens to torturous conditions and daily human rights abuses to achieve economic growth can compete economically, leading to job creation and ease of production across the globe. This is the economic equivalent of ripping off a band-aid. We have an entire world of consumers and only one region producing the majority of the goods we buy. It's nonsensical.

The question is how much do you value the life of a Chinese worker? You know that the cheaper price of electronics comes at cutting the safety budget.

And we are talking about toys here. Things everyone can definitely live without.

@HarryHyruleHero Wait till Trump announce tariffs for Hyrule

25% is a Quarter 1/4 of every dollar....

@TempOr Well, for one, I think they should move production out of China simply because I consider China the "Prime Evil" in terms of unethical treatment of the working force, and because they employ children well before even the most insane lunatic would consider it alright.

Yes, prices will go up. Yes, it'll be more expensive and poor people won't be able to buy their video games and consoles and so on. I don't care. Human rights is #1 here. If that means half of you can't buy vidya gaemz, then so be it.

Now, Temp0r, I'm curious: All the issues you listed seem to fall right into place with that of the vocal minority of community websites like Reddit that tend to inflate and blow issues way out of proportion... So are you writing these issues out from personal experience, or from the local Reddit list of issues that "everyone clearly has"?

Because nobody I know or have spoken to (and I know hundreds of people with Switches, courtesy of being in Switch communities and switch meet-ups) have had any of the issues you listed with their Switches...

Save maybe my uncle who is a gigantic moron with a dog that very obviously left teeth marks in his Switch despite him claiming it was Nintendo's product being flawed. xD

@graysoncharles haha agreed!

@DarkLloyd I would buy a digital only console but maybe Im crazy haha. Would you buy a game for an extra 25% switch tax plus an extra 25% China tax? If it is 29.99 on ps4 but 45.99 on switch? (Don't check my bad maths). What if it is 20 as a download, considering the significantly reduced production and distribution costs but 45.99 as a basic cartridge that asks you to download updates before you play anyway? I don't know about you, I loved cartridges back in the day but these days the cartridge is often, to some extent, just a token to access a partial download. You won't be able to play a lot of these cartridges in 15 years like you can with gameboy carts.

I don't agree with the tariffs or many (if any) of Trump's policies... but it does feel like everyone has their head stuck in the ground in regards to the sheer volume of goods being made in China and their associated dominance.

Consumers demand a the lower price is what all of these companies will claim, but at what cost to more local industries, workers rights (home and abroad), living conditions and equality?

Would I have paid £500 for my PS4 at launch? Probably. Would I have paid £400 for my Switch at launch? Certainly.

So, whilst I welcome these companies pushing back on Trump's policy which is clearly too hard ball and inappropriate... I do not welcome their ignorance to the bigger picture and lust to drive higher profits through lower hardware costs > higher install base > more software sales (software being significantly more profitable than hardware).

So Trump is right to press the issue... but it needs a better approach. From everyone.

Good! Come together on this one.

Console wars are dead and I love it.

When anyone starts talking about taxes or tarifffs, this is my go to thought

I hope we get to see MADE IN JAPAN again on all Nintendo consoles. I don’t mind paying the markup for a product that will last for life

@Tasuki and why should Japanese companies like Sony or Nintendo be giving Americans their jobs? In any case they should produce them in Japan and give you ZERO JOBS, you ass. You can keep Microsoft.

For me President trumps highest priorities are the financial interests of President trump, but I say again you get what you vote for. I also believe that the electoral college system is at odds with the freedoms they claim to champion.

Maybe one day when fellow humans rise to be of more import than wealth / insane greed humanity will prosper once again.

But I fear with the people that are able to scheme / game thir way into public office the planet is not going to last.

Enjoy your games while we still can....

@JayJ Not sure how it is at this moment, but Panasonic in the 80's 90's and maybe a bit beyond made most of their stuff in Japan. You wanted a VCR in the 80's 90's? (I know, what's a VCR), you could have one made in Japan if you bought a Panasonic. How do you think Toyota and Honda back in the day destroyed the American auto industry, (don't try and tell me American cars made here are good:) Japanese made...I purposely look for a Toyota or Honda or even a Hyundai (Korean built model), over ones made here if I need to buy an automobile or help someone but one..I was hoping video games would have followed..

@Terrible_Majesty If it were made in Japan, I have to wonder if it would be minimal in production costs...I would pay the extra $9 to have it made in Japan all day long.

The consoles would cost significantly more, but the price will eventually go down to reasonable levels. Games could cost as you said

Implying the Trump administration cares what anyone outside said administration has to say. This won't accomplish a thing and won't even be publically acknowledged.

@Blizzia I’ve owned my Switch since brand new (launch) and my joycon are drifting like stupid. First time I’ve ever had a problem with a piece of Nintendo hardware.

@Jawessome Can't say I share the issues, fortunately. The Switch has been the same as all other Nintendo hardware I've ever owned (aka all of it), absolutely perfect and without faults.

I'd say I'm probably just lucky, but eh.

China seems more a kin to a criminal organization. I'm glad someone is willing to throw caution to the wind and fight back. The video game companies are just as greedy as the others. "No way can we pay more than $5/hr for labor cost, that would kill our bottom line, we'd have to drastically raise the price." What a strawman argument and a phony choice. The price of gaming will not be raised for me because I won't pay your fake made up prices because you couldn't use slave labor. You're the ones who chose to put all your eggs in the Chinese basket. That's poor planning and not my problem. Now you can pay the cost of diversifying the labor force and if you try to do it by raising prices on your customers you'll lose our business and you can explain to your investors how you screwed up such a basic idea of not relying solely on Chinese thugs.

Nice article. On the one hand, paying more would stink, but on the other, China is a bully that steals IP, so anything that hurts them (even if it hits my wallet) is a good thing.

I don’t like the orange man, but I agree that something needs to be done about trade.

@JayJ Yeah, why don't they just move the supplies to Japan?

Here's my take: We talk about Capitalism and Free Markets but only when it benefits oneself but when when Capitalism and free markets works for others we cry fowl. What a bunch of inBreeds-if NA buyers want good product then pay for it but you know they will talk the talk but won't buy the buy. So USA has always wanted the cheap so what do you think they would do huh? Sounds like alot of poor loosers can't accept they lost the game*pun* to another competitor. Also most America as one mentioned don't want manufacture jobs or meat processing or Farm Labor. USA has what I call American privileged and fail to see the bigger picture. If you want to talk about those China giving subsidy then you should address why USA tax payers are subsidizing Corporations and then getting the shaft like paying for Oil companies subsidy and farm subsidiary and then they JACK oil prices on American car owners. Now tell me whom is getting pumped. Here's the REAL take remove all USA tax payers subsidiary from Corporations to Farms and make them do the "pickup yourself up by your own bootstrap" and then we well see whom is the ART OF THE DEAL.

BLAMING others for what the USA consumers wanted and politicians created is what USA does best at.

@NintendoFan4Lyf Political discussions are a big part of why I quit social media like Facebook entirely. Not the only reason, but one of the main ones.

@Tasuki I totally agree with you, and people, stop acting like China some angel country, it's not.

@backup368 Are you just turning a blind eye? Children are dying! They’re sleeping on the floor with a sheet of aluminium to protect them. How can that be justified in any way?

I love video games because they bring people together when we say to hell with politics, but what is interesting is that people who wouldn't otherwise consider how politics and world events affect them are more receptive when someone from a different demographic explains to their friends how it affects them.

For example, I have a friend who is a gamer but he can't buy digital games since he doesn't have a credit card or online presence, and the laws affecting people with incarceration records or those with citizenship issues that aren't as easy as being "illegal" or "undocumented" as one blanket category make my friends who know him from college more sensitive to these issues that they otherwise would never have cared about until they realized that it's a totally new perspective and experience that their privilege blinds them from seeing.

They are open to discovering these things, but their parents are another story...

That's nice that they are "banding together". Of course they are. They are businesses that need to make money and tarrifs are a hazard to them.

But some things are bigger than video games or hobbies. And I don't really appreciate large companies politicizing this issue to young and impressionable consumers of an entertainment media. This is one of the many, many things wrong with the world today.

As an American, I stand by my President for standing up to China and demanding fair and balanced trade practices. All nations should be doing the same thing. He is the only POTUS in decades that has the cajones to resist the backlash from the Left and do what is actually right for his country. A little bit of short term pain in higher prices for the things we want (and maybe even need) will result in much better prices and, most importantly, economies of trading partners in the future. Don't be fooled by the garbage the global media (and especially American) is serving. This is a good thing and needs to be done.

Forgive me, but isn’t that the point? To disrupt production of anything being produced in China?

Trump is an idiot and disrupting a lot of stuff, it only hurts the consumer in the end.

These companies want that near slave labor in China. The US trade imbalance with China is ridiculously one sided. I'll take a temporary hit if the end result is to slow down China (which is the point, except nobody has had the nads to actually go after them and do it) and improve the ridiculously large US trade imbalance.

Don't want to pay the tariffs? Then move production out of China.

Problem solved.

China is a problem. So is Trump. So I keep an eye on both.
It's not an either ... or.

made in china

@Morpheel Then those other consoles need more balance updates!

@Heavyarms55 Honestly, humanity could do well to follow your example. Social media, while initially useful and still so in some ways, has gotten to a point where it's a poison on our society and each of us as humans.

These companies can band together to fight the tariffs....or they can stop building in China. I'm a staunch supporter of all companies finding alternative locations to make their products. China is terrible when it comes to labour rights and protections. Yeah it's because they're super cheap and lax with their laws so companies make higher profits there but we as a species need to do better. Pull manufacturing completely from China and build in countries that actually respect workers rights & the international rules-based order and therefore companies will avoid the tariffs and teach China they can't bully the international community. Signed - a pissed off Canadian.

@nessisonett They have better hospitality under care of border patrol than wandering the middle of nowhere, likely with a child trafficker.

@Pickettfury It's OK, we're all allowed to be wrong sometimes. During the industrial revolution, the western world never had children as young as four performing fourteen hour shifts while imprisoning and torturing those who criticize the state (and others who simply do not follow the ideal lifestyle as mandated by the government) in modern day concentration camps such as those in Xinjiang. The western world never enforced a social credit system tracking citizens' every move, a system devised to punish acts of free will such as simple junk food purchases with lower scores, which prohibit "offenders" from leaving the country, finding work, renting/owning a property, etc. The western world never carried genetically-modified CRISPR human embryos to full-term in secret and then publicly denounced the act to save face with the media, potentially introducing fatal genetic mutations into the human gene pool should the children with modified DNA mature and reproduce (the alternative is to deprive them of one or both of these privileges, which itself is inhumane, hence the ethical debate on allowing human genetic experiments). You are defending what is today's subtler equivalent of Nazi era Germany out of sheer ignorance.

@backup368 Care of border control? What planet are you on??? Read up on these horrible concentration camps before talking absolute nonsense.

@hakjie11 When my dad got a job in manufacturing for a transportation company they gave all their employees $20 per hour as a starting salary and this was in the 90's! Now the employees start out with $15 per hour and the senior employees think all the new people are complete dunces. People don't want "CEO wages" they just want enough money to support their family on a single income and that's not unreasonable if you ask me.

I just want to point out that one of the Switch's largest weaknesses in its Joycon is a decades-old Chinese part that controls the analog sticks.

I can only hope that Nintendo's hardware quality improves as a silver lining to moving manufacturing outside China. The Switch's fragility is a serious low point in a long list of well-made hardware, so regardless of this political outcome, I really hope Nintendo strives to return to form with their hardware legacy.

They are right that these tariffs will make the consoles unaffordable for many people and hurt the gaming industry in the short term. In the long term the problems the tariffs could cause could make the short term ones look like nothing but a bump in the road a small bump at that. These tariffs are damaging the United States economy which in key ways is weak i.e. wages are poor, benefits are poor, the cost of things especially things like rent and insurance are astronomical, and there is an ungodly amount of personally held debt i.e. student loan debt, medical debt, credit card debt and loan shark debt. If the price of goods goes up by 25% a lot of people are not going to be able to afford to buy things and that will hurt the flow of money the economy needs to not seize up and sink into a recession. If the economy goes into recession it’s not just going to be that so many more people will not be able to afford gaming as a hobby some people who have the money may not have the time because they have to work more to make the same amount they were making prior to the recession.

I know some people are hopeful these tariffs will force the companies out of China and end the unethical production of their consoles but that ain’t happening they will just go to another country where workers are horribly abused and exploited. All three companies are capitalist entities their raison d’être is profit maximization for their owners and exploiting and abusing workers is a good way to maximize your profits in fact its one of the best. For Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft to stop it will require one of two things. The first is government involvement in the form of a prohibition of products being sold in which the workers who produced them weren’t treated and compensated properly. The second is the fundamental structure of the companies being changed so they are worker owned and democratically controlled freeing them of the capitalist hierarchy of control that drives people especially those at the top to see those below them more as cogs than people and freeing them from the pursuit of profit maximization.

This is one of those "too little too late" requests though. Ultimately they're saying "we've spent decades orienting our business around maximizing the amount of slave labor utilized, in order to spend the absolute minimum on production as we reel in profits. We don't want to stop the exploitation of a powerless population held as slaves in all but actual property rights, so we're begging for everyone to keep looking the other way and preserve the exploitative status quo that gives the comfortable cheaper toys."

I find their argument pretty unconvincing here. The amusing part is they don't seem to notice how weak the argument is because they accept their current status so absolutely.

People in this thread keep talking about the tarifs hurting the economy here etc. Which isn't incorrect. But they act like removing the tarifs would help. The problem is the hole is far, far, far, far too deep and the time to fix it was in the 1990s. The problem is inset either way. If we put the tarifs on there's immediate pain in the cost of goods going up and the difficulties that causes the economy, albeit with the hope of building infrastructure to create a more sustainable long term. The lack of such tarrifs however is a temporary bandaid. All it does is slow the bleeding until there's no more blood left to lose and the economy is dead. this should have been foreseen 30 years ago and not allowed to get to this point. "Do nothing" isn't a fix. It's either about letting it hurt sharply now and hoping that can allow for a longer term fix, or letting it hurt slowly for a little while longer until there's nothing left to fix. There's no option of actually comfortably fixing it now. This is what happens when you allow your entire production base to be exported while still living in a manufacturing economy.

There's too much "shoot the messenger" going on with people liking or disliking the specific political operators involved, and conveniently ignoring the 30+ year hole that has nothing at all to do with the the political operators currently involved and has everything to do with a coprorate-government alliance that looks a lot like national socialism masquerading as a market....or , as Mussolini called it, "Facism."

@hakjie11 40, 50 years ago, a factory job paid enough for one male to earn enough to pay for a house, a spouse, and 2-3 children, plus healthcare, stock options, and a pension for life. This is not a case of "people in the developed world don't want factory jobs," This is a case of "how is it that in a few decades we wen't from a single factory job being all that was needed for the entire family to live a working class comfortable life, to it being considered minim wage work for borer-line invalids?" The outsourcing IS the answer.

@Yorumi it's a depressing thread, because it revels how many people here, even those I highly respect otherwise, believe "new truth" like it's a religious devotion without even a cursory understanding of reality, and a defiant will to insist reality is wrong and "new reality" is right. If nobody understands where we are and how we got there, how can we ever hope to go anywhere else.

I'm to the point I actually wish for a benevolent dictator. It's got to be better than the mob rule of ill informed fools. Even monarchy is looking good.

@Tasuki they can do whatever THEY want. If Japanese companies want to make them in China instead of the US, they are in their own right to do it.

Americans being entitled as always. You don’t get to choose where they decide to manufacture their stuff... as simple as that.

You’re looking all red neckish... “this damn Chinese taking ma jobs from a Japanese company, U.S.A! U.S.A!”

Newsflash: You don’t get to dictate where foreign companies want to manufacture their products. Stick to your own companies.

“Ugh, these damn Germans giving out jobs to Mexico! They should be making Volkswagen in the USA. Mexicans stealing our jobs! It’s our right to produce a German car in American soil”

Yeah, you look just like that. Get back to your trailer.

@Jokerwolf Actually, in the end, it will HELP the consumer. It will also greatly help countries trading with China (the US in this case because Trump has the nads to stand up to China) to get more of their goods into China. Which means more GDP for those countries, more growth, more jobs, more wealth among the working class. And most importantly, more pride in saying, "Made in {place home country here}".

I don't know how old you are. There are young people who are targeted by Social Justice propaganda that are ripe for the feeding of half truths and ajendas that seem to "feel like the right thing". There are also older people who like to hold the moral high ground and don't care to learn all sides of an issue. They are right because it "feels right". And because the TV, news and Hollywood say I'm right. But the truth lies in understanding the details. Life is rarely black and white. So you have to dig and learn.

I would bet that you really don't know too much about trade and economics. Especially about the last 30 - 40 years of America's Presidents who parlayed to China in their manufacturing strength (born on the backs of slave labor and total lack of intellectual property law) because they were afraid of exactly this... how their uneducated, entitled constituents, would react when they couldn't get their new gadgets when they want it. Learn a bit more about this topic and you will find that Trump actually knows what he's doing and really is the first POTUS in at least 30 years to actually put his citizens first and actually cares about the economy. Don't hate. Educate.

@Yorumi Though, that's a lot of the problem....

@Tasuki poor answer from a poor mind. Im sorry you didn't have a valid answer to an argument... boohoo.

Well.. what did I expect? An American demanding jobs for his country from a foreign company. LMAO.

I guess your answer reflects your intelligence. Are you 12?

Go to the kids' table champ... the adults are discussing important matters. Maybe next time.

@Yorumi Yeah, but that's the exact bubble mentality that built this very problem. That's actually worse than the ill-informed reactionaries. They're working with the information they have trying to fix the wrong problem in the wrong way. You understand the problem but just ignore it as long as you're doing well enough to not be affected by it. Their culpability is due to ignorance and being fed lies rather than the luxury of just ignoring it.

@AcesHigh I know more than you would think I do. I understand how the economy works, I know that horrible stuff happens so that we have our stuff. Life is suffering and others benefit from it Rich people only exist because of slavery.

@NotTelevision the fact that jobs are still being added is a result of jobs coming back to america period. Sorry your political comment holds no ground at all.

$400-$500 for a console now so $500-$625 with tariffs. Thats actually considering inflation that's about right anyways. Anyways it will not stop people from getting a console at all. Nintendo has already taken steps and moved production elsewhere and I am sure Microsoft and Sony will as well if need be. This is doing nothing but hurting china.

It is hard to pick a side. I don't like China, but I like cheap consoles (less than 1000). Oh well...

@nintendork64 Thing is, social media isn't truly the problem, its people. Social media however provides an easy tool for negativity to collect and ferment.

@NintendoFan4Lyf I tried that route, but I ended up unfollowing almost everyone.

@Tasuki hahaha "instead of leeching off of other countries" ... goes in a rant in which he demands work from Japanese companies... LMAO!!!!!!!

Go on, your logic makes me laugh and facepalm at the same time.

And yeah, sure... they LOOOOVE working so hard in manufacturing plants that they demand 3 or 4 times the wage that any other country asks for. Have you ever wondered why they choose to locate those manufacturing plants somewhere else?

Also, we are not debating about hard work which ALL COUNTRIES DO. We are debating your ridiculous, obnoxious and entitled posture that you DEMAND work from a company that is located in and comes from ANOTHER country!!!

But I guess you feel like the overlord of the world to decide such matters, dont you? Why, in a sane mind, would a Japanese company (or any other foreign one for that matter) be forced to put a manufacturing plant in the US when they have the right to choose wherever they want to put it?

Go on... I'm still waiting for a valid argument

I'd like to point out that a lot of the things people are saying "China" is doing, is in fact caused by the C.C.P. Just look at Hong Kong right now to see how the Chinese don't support what the C.C.P. do. China good, C.C.P. bad.

No idea on the on the economic ramifications, but fixing China's human rights violations were a part of the trade deal that got scraped, which caused the tarrifs in response. If the trade war is a force that can pressure the C.C.P. to stop such atrocities, then I'm all for it.

@Tasuki Also I cannot be held responsible for mexicans or latin americans crossing the border....

But YOU, ultimately, are accountable for what you say in your comments (I guess that's pretty obvious to a moderator), and that you, either way or not, end up looking like an entitled child trying to leech off foreign companies.

(If you don't think so, look at the number of your thumbs down of your original post)

@Jokerwolf Your response doesn't really tell me that you do. It tells me that you are oversimplifying the issue and are looking at it emotionally vs. Rationally. It also tells me that you actually should be supporting Trump rather than bashing him.

If you don't like rich people getting rich off of slave labor than you shouldnt be supporting goods made in China and you shouldnt be supporting imbalanced trade with China because it just empowers companies like Apple, Microsoft, Sony, Nintendo to continue offshoring manufacturing the stuff you consume to countries like China that utilize slave labor instead of keeping production domestically, creating jobs and increasing GDP.

And if you don't care at all and you're good with it, like your response suggests then your opinions on Trump really are inconsequential and void of merit. I just hope you learn more before you are old enough to vote.

@Dirty0814 Exactly. It is a short term inconvenience and pain. But sticking to our guns forces the manufacturer to either look at other means to produce in countries who believe in fair trade or cut operating expenses to continue to be competitive or, most likely, both. Manufacturers will be forced to do this or China will be forced to relent and make trade fair. It is inevitable. Then things will normalize again. One thing that is not debatable, China needs foreign trade more than the United States needs them. Same with Mexico. For the first time in history, the US is totally independent on energy (thank you Trump) and our exports allow us to support counter tarrifs from China on things like soybeans so that we can compensate our farmers for losses in revenue. Long enough to hold us out til China caves.

This must be done. Not just for America but to also set the precedent for other nations to do the same for themselves. We all have to be calm and patient and be resolute. Even if our gaming dollar is temporarily hit. Best thing is to not buy luxury items when prices increase and force manufacturers to put pressure on China to relent by stopping, slowing or moving their production elsewhere. Getting mad at Trump is like the patient getting angry at the doctor for the pain they are experiencing instead of the drunk driver that put them in the hospital.

@AcesHigh you are right on the money. The big thing many people are not even thinking about is Sony and microsofts new systems still have over a year before release and even then they will have almost no library for them to start with just like all systems start except for the previous gems games. This is the very reason I do not buy new gen consoles for the first year usually. I can handle little difference in graphics and loading times until then, hell been doing it for this long already Soo.

@Dirty0814 Trump loves projecting that the tariffs are the reason some jobs are coming back. There was also spurts of job growth during the Obama years...but no tariffs, just lowing corporate taxes.

Major companies, unfortunately, will never probably return so it might be a good idea to see what America could be a leader in. The auto industry and big tech manufacturing belongs to Asia now.

Under Obama gdp growth was .8 percent under Trump it has been well over 2.5%. the fact that even with Trump's corporate tax cuts we are still not the cheapest taxed nation for corporations. When we were sitting at 39% that drove 99% of businesses that left away and it prevented many upstarts also. Without low taxes and other incentives for corporations they will not even consider coming back but when the taxes got cut almost 18% that lead many corps to start coming back or expanding their businesses here.
The fact remains no not all jobs will come back. That will only happen if corporate taxes are cut to 0 but dozens if not hundreds have already started to come back. The numbers speak for themselves . Even with a tariff war America's economy is still doing better than it has in over 50 years.
Obama's lack of doing anything and a 39% tax rate and Trump's aggressive stance and 21% tax rate and over 2.5% growth ever quarter prove my point and debunk yours.
As far as America finding new businesses it has always been in some of everything and will continue to do that most likely.

@TheLightSpirit China has better wages than some western countries. Labour isn't cheap there just people aren't overpaid for "expertise" that's the difference. In the West, you would get experts who get paid 150k+ a year for doing something that is considered an expertise. That's where the difference lies and where the huge cost saving comes from.

Edit: Also it is really bad that some people like @GetShulked are bashing the country about things like its "concentration camps" when they have no understanding of what goes on there. The Islamic leaders has spoken positivity of these camps because unlike the Nazi "concentration camps" that people associate with, they are more camps where people are given food and education so they can integrate into society and live a prosperous life but of course, haters going hate. China even allows the western media to go live in those camps to see what it is really like there.

@DarthFoxMcCloud Except it is America doing the bullying. China has better IP protection laws then the US does and still gets accused of theft. Huawei, for example, got taken down by the US because they filed the most patents out of anybody and the US simply put doesn't like China.

@hakjie11
Damn didn't think of that! 😅

@SNES64DD LOL! Maybe for their own goods. But that is only because China is a communist state and the Communist party owns the rights to everything made there.

However, when it comes to honoring International IP, they are the worst globally. You are aware that China is the world's leading manufacturer of conterfeit goods, right?

America isn't doing any bullying. The only thing we're doing is standing up to the bully and telling them, "If we are going to trade with each other, you import as much as you export. Same with us. But if you sell more than you buy from us, we will impose higher taxes on the things you sell us to make you play fair." It really is as simple as this. And, its simply fair trading.

I will say one thing... You do your Democrat party leadership proud. If I were you, I would learn a little more about international trade, economics and politics before nroadcasting opinions based on incorrect or wrong information - or worse, personal "feelings".

@Dirty0814 Agreed. Besides, by the time they launch, this will likely be over and we'll have a new trade deal.

The thing that really makes me upset is these manufacturers trying to generate sympathy among their (mostly) young, passionate and highly impressionable user base. These are luxury goods. They are not commodities. And they should be ashamed of themselves trying to motivate their user base to rebel and be vocal against the governments that are just trying to do the right thing and get China to play fair. They absolutely know that what the US is doing is really the right thing. But it's going to hit their pocket books. So they turn to their younger consumers to try and generate opposition to their government. It is the same tactic the Democrat party is using on the rest of America. Playing the moral high ground for causes that are purely self serving and NOT in the best interest of the people. We need more people like you to speak out and help educate people on truth vs. Half-truths and flat out lies.

@AcesHigh "America isn't doing any bullying." ==>The rest of the world does not agree.

@NEStalgia It would be much easier if US just moved on and show the world it still has the high tech innovation it proudly started. US workforce would earn so much more with high tech compared to go back and try reclaiming the manufacturing jobs. There are so many undeveloped countries out there waiting in line to do the cheap manufacturing jobs.

@AcesHigh Um no...I'm talking about international patents in recent years.
What has counterfeit goods got to do with anything I said?
Huawei doesn't make counterfeit goods, they made premium American products that are produced in China like pretty much everyone else.
There are individuals that do counterfeit goods but that's like saying my brother-in-law is bully so I get punished.
If you actually go to the flea markets in most countries you will find plenty of counterfeit goods that are sold there. Some Made in China, some not.

Also, most "counterfeit goods" are legal.

Counterfeit goods are generally made from legit good parts by big companies doing shady dealing on the side. They don't want to be responsible for mass producing a certain quantity of goods (in order to get the cheap price) so end up selling the rest back to the manufacturer for a cheaper price and the manufacturer does something out of it by making it slightly different from the original goods.

"If you sell more than you buy from us, we will impose higher taxes on the things you sell us to make you play fair"
And how is that fair?
In terms of importing, America doesn't really PRODUCE anything of value for the world to buy.

The playing field has not been fair since the Opium Wars. Back then England tried to sell Opium to the Chinese knowing full well it was a drug they banned themselves because of it addictive value.

The Qing government wrote to the queen at the time wanting it banned from sale in the country as well but instead got their government toppled by several wars.

That close to literally all you had to "trade" with at the time.

China wanted nothing from you. You wanted everything from China.

The playing field has not been fair since.

China gave up and lost its innovative space to America.

Isn't it you conservatives who vote for lower taxes for the rich?
Why?
Because the rich PRODUCE more then and should get more benefit.

Seriously, read what is being traded and tell me how it is fair what you're saying.

https://ustr.gov/countries-regions/china-mongolia-taiwan/peoples-republic-china#

China buys tools and parts from America then sells you the final product. Of course, the final product is going to be less but cost more, how else is people going to make a profit?

China say imports $100 worth of parts and exports $150-200 worth of goods. That's business.

Also what is being imported ranges from things like machinery to services. America's manufacturing industry would basically die without Chinese imports. China, on the other hand, does not need a few extra jet planes and some beans.

Don't try to pull politics into this when you know full well you are full of shit.

Edit: If it had been the other way round, you'll be putting taxes on exports saying China is buying American quality goods and technology and should have to pay for it. #TRUMPLOGIC

@AcesHigh Also China is more conservative then you or I. They're like socially stuck in the 1950s or something but with 21st-century technology and manufacturing. Ironically, the West in the 1950s had a lot of discrimination for blacks, gay, transgender, etc...oh wait. (they. still. do.)

I meant that China is far more social then America is and even has bad 50s habits like smoking...lots of smoking.

It's funny how all conservatives around the world more or less hate one another. You see this with America, the Middle East and even Europe...

And apparently, progressives are to be blamed for this?

@Yorumi Quite the luxury to be able to separate yourself from that and not be confronted with its problems all day every day as the world directly around you falls apart. Most don't get that level of luxury. The China issue isn't just about trade and impending depression. It's leading to the slow collapse of everything around you right now, from empty shopping centers, to broken roads. If you can insulate yourself that far from it, that's high luxury indeed! For most in the world, survival and sanity requires it gets fixed yesterday. If it takes WWIII to fix it, then someone take the first shot already.

@hakjie11 That always remains a broken proposition though. It has the assumption that everyone in the US is inherently massively more intelligent, massively more motivated, massively more capable than "simple third worlders." Everyone here can forever be expected to be smarter and faster forever and ever, with 100% of the population escalating to ever more demanding and complicated work, while "those developing nation simpletons" are only capable of smacking things with hammers while our entire population is inherently more capable!

The skill required for work is then determined by where you are born. Which then implies that everyone of lesser ability that maybe cut out for factory work, but with a higher degree of pride and thoroughness in product result than is the standard in places like China, rather than highly trained, highly skilled careers should basically be exiled as unable to keep up with expectations.

And then we seem to wonder why we have a violence problem....

There will forever bee a significant population that will not ever be suitable for anything other than manual labor. In all countries. A system that ignores that and effectively treats those people as sub-human non-persons unfit to keep up is precisely why our slums and body counts look like they do.

@Yorumi I don't disagree about history, but on the other hand if everyone followed the bubble route, the world would today be run by Nazis or Soviets. Japan was just a weird media induced panic. They never had the scale or pull to actually take over the world. And global trade + automation certainly will. It was people actively resisting those things that actually prevented it from happening. Ironically Hitler himself was very much counting on most Americans being in a bubble like you...it was part of his war strategy. So you're certainly average...even he thought so. Fortunately in his own time he was wrong. Or at least a bit ahead of his time. Walling yourself off and leaving the problem for someone else to deal with, while I can't blame you for wanting to do that if you have the ability to do that, most don't, I certainly can't respect that either. That's the very mentality that enables the problem. If everyone with the resources to look after #1 does just that, that leaves only the people with no resources to face the problem. That of course is what leads it always to a violent solution. Though given then need for overwhelmingly massive population reduction worldwide, that might not be such a terrible result after all....

@mozzy1

Dude, Sony and Microsoft in particular usually sell their consoles at a loss when it first comes to the market and don't start making a profit (off hardware) for a year or years to come. And Nintendo didn't make much profit from the Switch hardware when it first hit either.

So yeah, we can't blame them for not wanting to pay an additional 25% tax on top of selling their hardware at a loss already. Just because our President is an embarrassment to his office.

@Yorumi

Don't know about all that my friend. The world does indeed learn from its historical tragedies and the people who live through them eventually evolve and make positive steps toward prosperity.

You describe world history similar to a dam that keeps leaking (which is actually a good analogy) but at least the holes leak in different places as opposed to the same holes opening up again after repair.

@Turbo857 "Don't make your toys using slave labor" shouldn't be a difficult rule for Nintendo, Sony, and Microsoft to follow. They idea they're trying to agitate their young customer base to support their exploration of oppressed and controlled people to maximize profits and minimize costs of what is essentially toy manufacturing is shameless and unforgivable.

The idea that things "cost more" is a misdirection. Not that long ago, a good 20, 25 years ago not all products were "made in China", many were made here, many were made other places. Things were reliable, well made, lasted, and priced "right". The move to moving production to China and explotation of what is essentially slave labor was made to gain market advantage and price things far below what was a normal price. Albeit minimum quality, cheap goods that now didn't last very long at all, requiring a constant cycle of "cheap consumer goods" that constantly need to be replaced (ultimately costing more than the quality goods made elsewhere they replaced.) Then over time those prices crept ever upward, supporting larger advertising budgets, familiarizing customers with higher prices again, and ultimately leading to higher returns for investors, which is the social stratification that people on EVERY political alignment are against. This is all recent. Not sure how young or old you are but if young you can be forgiven for thinking that's how the world always was. It wasn't. it wasn't even long ago it wasn't. Not making things in China doesn't make everything automatically cost more. It prices product at the right price, but also puts more into the supply chain and wages, creating more potential customers. It cuts back on investor returns, at least in the short term, but fixing the balance between windfall investment and the actual economy is the actual goal. Ironically it should be the actual goal for investors as well.....the more wealth is concentrated in a small portion of society, the less growth they can actually experience overall, and the more they have to spend fending off or forcibly funding the larger masses. A flowing economy benefits everyone, even investors. A lopsided economy is temporarily great for investors...but eventually becomes catastrophic. See also the early 20th century.

Yorumi may be happy being complacent, but I'm not I can't fix the world but I can open the eyes of the people I do encounter that are interested enough to discuss such things. Don't be blinded by particular party labels, identity associative politics, like or dislike of one politician or another, and look at the overall picture, aside from labels, familiar groups, and outsizes personalities.

Both trying to reverse the Chinese monopoly on manufacturing, or allowing it to continue unfettered are both going to hurt a lot. The latter involves kicking the can so the disaster doesn't happen until "someone else later", and the former involves inviting the pain now in hopes to be able to fix it later. It's not a right/left issue. It's a problem that plagues the US and western economies, regardless of political alignment, and it must be either addressed with hope to fix it, or ignored with hope someone has to deal with it after we're dead. But the problem won't go away by cheerleading one party or another. It's a very material problem that needs very material, and painful, solutions.

Or on the flip side if you just want to help the world burn while you dance on the ashes, there's the flip side. Just buy DIRECTLY from China. Cut out the western middle men. Do you know cheap slaves are? You can get the same goods, sometimes better, direct from China for half or less the cost of what the Western ad men are charging on top of it and pocketing the difference. Just support Beijing directly, torch the West, and get the bargain your "betters" are getting while they charge you double and keep the change.

Honestly directly supporting the Chinese rise is still probably more ethical than supporting the liars and opportunist who will have it both ways in the West.

@Yorumi See, you DO care!

Though I will never understand why there's any bleeding heart debate about the border. It's a line marking a division between two territories. You can't cross into another territory without permission. If you violate the rule you die, or get imprisoned. That rule is made very clear to everyone on every side. It has been a standard between borders without cross border agreements since time immemorial. It's a basic function of sovereign states. I don't know why that very simple, ancient, timeless concept seems to confuse both the people that willfully violate the rule to cross it and expect to remain unharmed, and the people on the receiving side that seem to believe the best use of rules and laws is to be broken and ignored. I'd like the same people to surrender their passports and go world traveling and see what happens, and should happen to them as a result of flagrantly violating very clearly stated rules essential to the functioning of a nation. It has nothing to do with "human rights" or anything else. It's a law posted in plain text to apply equally to everyone. It's the most basic definition of a law, unlike most of the gibberish modern governments work up. And worse, it rewards the lawless and punishes the lawful.

@Yorumi

Damn, you lost me at horrors of socialism and a political party that promotes racism against whites (seriously?).

Horrors of communism? ok but in the US (and many civilized parts of the world) we already benefit from socialist programs. Socialism is great when it is a supplement to capitalism, which is what political supporters wish to bring to the US.

@Yorumi

From what exactly...?

@Yorumi Yet those of us who live in other 1st world, developed nations know that the US is not the best example of anything from a socio-economic standpoint, doesn't rank #1 in anything save for economy size (yay?), and that we (countries such as Canada) treat our citizens better, and we have even more freedoms then you do. We can easily attain medical service with no regard to our personal wealth, (my Mother beat cancer thanks to universal healthcare) education is far cheaper, drugs are cheaper (caravans of Americans come up here to buy OUR drugs cause they're cheaper). Investing money into your own people is one of the best ways to be on top and stay competitive. Sorry to be the bearer of an inconvenient truth, but the US is not the haven of freedom and perfection you imagine that it is. All modern societies use forms of socialism to function, from public schools to roads, libraries, police, fire fighters, sewage systems and transit, to name a tiny few: even 'MURICA.

@EVIL-C

Amen. As an American I totally agree with everything you said. You guys even have legalized marijuana on a national scale (not like us in the states). It gets cold up there in the winter but I'm a big fan of Canada (especially Montreal). The US can certainly benefit in many ways from your country's example(s).

@Yorumi
Your examples reflect Communism, not socialism. I cannot stress how unfortunate it is for an individual (especially in the US) to not know the difference. And as the post above mine states, "all modern societies use forms of socialism to function".

@Yorumi

"Any system that says one person has a right to the property or labor of another is immoral." Dude, that ain't socialism.

Medicare = socialism, Construction on streets/bridges = socialism; when natural disasters strike and FEMA comes to fund repairs = Socialism; Social Security = Socialism; actions taken by the government to ensure you breath clean air and don't eat contaminated food = Socialism

Socialism is government funding for what it believes should be considered a basic right (not a privilege) for its citizens. It says nothing about one person or entity having a right to somebody else's personal property. If you believe otherwise, you've been misinformed.

When Tetris was created and Russia's government owned the rights = Communism

@Pickettfury I appreciate your honesty despite how misguided your views are, many lesser people resort to insults and name-calling over far less confrontational exchanges. We are all entitled to our beliefs, however wrong they are. I do not judge the Chinese citizenry for their Orwellian government, they are simply trying to live their lives despite their overbearing ruling class.

@Turbo857 What you are describing is a mixed economy, not socialism. A government which appropriates a (preferably low) percentage of its citizens' income to fund public services is not a socialist government, much like the inverse scenario where a government which lets citizens keep most of its income is not a pure market economy (though I will give you credit for painting aspects of the United States government as socialistic, as the country here is indeed experiencing a slow creep of socialism with every passing year despite the well-intentioned actions of conservative figures like President Trump — you could elect motivated Constitutional conservatives to the presidency every four years for a century in the United States and still lose basic freedoms over time due to the sheer volume of corruption in the cancerous American government).

"Socialism is government funding for what it believes should be considered a basic right (not a privilege) for its citizens".

In the real world, socialism is a fatally-flawed system of government in which the state controls the means of production, and in practice is a method of inflicting tyranny, restricting individual liberties, and is of the same political school of thought as fascism, not its opposite. Socialism is not a sentient entity capable of thought or holding beliefs, and there is no such thing as "government funding"; the term you are searching for is "taxpayer funds" — governments do not produce goods or services or any item of value, they enact and uphold laws and spend taxpayer funds to finance the public services they are required to perform. Socialism in practice is the antithesis of the benevolent system of equality for all it appears to be on paper (or in the tweets of both the youth and the elderly in the increasingly radical American Democratic party who each tout it as if it's a new, untested solution). It is a perfect system of government for an imperfect world — a government better suited for beehives than the tribal nature of the human race.

Guys, I really like this Comment Section. Whether our political views are the same or not, discussion is always the best. We grew up in different places but there is one thing we all agree....we like gaming on the SWITCH!!! Let's battle it out on Mariokart!!!