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Topic: Why does the Wii U get so much hate?

Posts 101 to 120 of 198

SCRAPPER392

@arnoldlayne83
He's right, though. The biggest 3rd party games PS4 and Xbox One are mainly getting enhanced 8th generation versions of 7th generation games. There is a difference, but not much. I bought an Xbox One, but I'm not one the people complaining about which console has the most games or anything. The only reason why we're talking about this, is because Wii U got a ton of crap for getting games that didn't look that much better than last gen(ZombiU, Pikmin 3, Super Mario 3D World, etc), but now Xbox One and PS4 are getting basically the same games as last gen and people are ok with that, but they aren't with essentially the same situation on Wii U, 3rd parties excluded. All that tells anyone is that those people that were complaining about the Wii U were going to buy Xbox One or PS4, regardless. People are complaining about something that wouldn't have changed their opinion.

@PilksUK
Ya, except today is today, and today the Wii U has more games. It easier to admit that you just want to buy PS4, because of the graphics, instead of making up this more games bullcrap that didn't change your opinion last year. We're beating a dead horse here by talking about what system has the most games, because it won't change anyone's opinion and they'll go buy Xbox One or PS4 anyway. It would be like if I told you I would buy PS4 if a new Crash Bandicoot came out exclusively to it, then it actually happens, and I'm like "Well, it's still not enough". My words are considered bullcrap at that point. Saying that PS4 will have more games by nect year is a cop-out, because next year is not today.

Qwest

Nintendo Network ID: Children

mamp

@TheRealThanos Ain't nobody got time for that. Condense my friend, condense.

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NNID: Muffin-Gun

arnoldlayne83

SCAR392 wrote:

@arnoldlayne83
He's right, though. The biggest 3rd party games PS4 and Xbox One are mainly getting enhanced 8th generation versions of 7th generation games. There is a difference, but not much. I bought an Xbox One, but I'm not one the people complaining about which console has the most games or anything. The only reason why we're talking about this, is because Wii U got a ton of crap for getting games that didn't look that much better than last gen(ZombiU, Pikmin 3, Super Mario 3D World, etc), but now Xbox One and PS4 are getting basically the same games as last gen and people are ok with that, but they aren't with essentially the same situation on Wii U, 3rd parties excluded. All that tells anyone is that those people that were complaining about the Wii U were going to buy Xbox One or PS4, regardless. People are complaining about something that wouldn't have changed their opinion.

People are not ok with that either, a lot of complains about lack of "true" next gen.... only few games already started to show some new features and graphical improvement, but overall the current gen (ps4,xbox1) is very unripe

And about "which has more games" is not so much about numbers, it is more about variety, if I like football games or fps, or even rpg, on wiiU at the moment I have nothing to play with.... and nothing to play with even in future.... of course, if I was a platform freak, with wiiU I'll be ok for the rest of my life....

Concerning total numbers, make a projection to end 2015, you will see.... WiiU got a title/month from now (ehm, from september) to end 2015 (to be positive).... Xbox1 and PS4 got at least 4/5 titles a month....

Edited on by arnoldlayne83

psn: markthesovver83 ; Nnid: arnoldlayne83

Nintendo Network ID: arnoldlayne83

ThanosReXXX

mamp wrote:

@TheRealThanos Ain't nobody got time for that. Condense my friend, condense.

If one wants to know the whole story, one cannot condense...
Didn't put the warning before the story for nothing; it's up to the reader if he wants to pick my brain or not.

'The console wars are like boobs. Sony and Microsoft fight over which ones look the nicest and Nintendo's are the most fun to play with.'

Nintendo Network ID: TheRealThanos

Jazzer94

@TheRealThanos I keep seeing comments along the lines of publishers/developers should stop being lazy whenever a game isn't announced for Wii U but why should they have to jump through hoops bring games to the system that will struggle to even reach 400k, these are businesses who's primary goal is to make money just like Nintendo are so I can't understand how trying to make things easier like less optimization on games from having all consoles using the same architecture is seen as bad, honestly there is to much of an entitled attitude with gamers in general.

PSN: mangaJman
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I keep getting this feeling that I should write something down here........................

Nintendo Network ID: Justinius94

kkslider5552000

TheRealThanos put things in perspective quite well.

The reality is, for as many mistakes as Nintendo has made...can we really say a lot of these 3rd party publishers have given us any reason to believe they know what they're doing or have an understanding other than their own? Do we trust EA when it spends months trying to fix servers for their own games, to the point that they get lawsuits over it? Can we trust WB, that cared more about DLC than fixing Arkham Origins? Can we trust Capcom, who made ONE OF THEIR TOP GUYS WORK THROUGH A SEVERE ILLNESS? Can we trust Square Enix, who originally couldn't make a profit out of the Tomb Raider reboot despite being one of the best selling games of that year? Can we trust those people to understand how to make a game anyone would play on a different console with a different audience? Nintendo could help, but it's apparent that the price to make this work on a Nintendo console (even ignoring the Wii U sales fails) would be absolutely insane and not justifiable to any company.

If Nintendo and Wii U are to be criticized, it should be for three main reasons as far as I can. (we'll ignore marketing and advertising)
1. For letting the Wii die a year and a half early and utterly failing to keep up momentum.
2. For their one major attempt to focus on 3rd parties being a cluster**** launch with games you could buy on other systems. The fact that something as Japanese as Monster Hunter is Wii U's big 3rd party success says a lot to me.
3. Going their different direction, and not doing enough to attract developers. Considering how Nintendo is already publishing games that wouldn't exist if Nintendo wasn't publishing them, I could probably name a lot of developers and games that were screwed over by AAA publishers and could use this opportunity. There's probably enough games that fit that category that would do ANYTHING for a second chance to fill in that 3rd party void. Or they could just take my advice and make a small part of their company exist solely to publish other people's games.

Beyond Good and Evil 2 better be happening! In the meanwhile though, here's a fun little Let's Play of the original. Think you'll like the game if you like Zelda!
LeT's PlAy BEYOND GOOD AND EVIL < Link to LP

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Sleepingmudkip

Or maybe cause the Wii U came out first so all the fanboys and critics gave it all the hate.

Think how different it would of been if WiiU came out with the other consoles or if the ps4 or Xbox1 came out over a year before the other consoles.

idk if anyone already said this

Xander my husband...

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ThanosReXXX

@Hernandez There was a friendly warning at the beginning, so you could have known. But 30 minutes? That's slow reading bro, it took me less than that to type it...

Jazzer94 wrote:

@TheRealThanos I keep seeing comments along the lines of publishers/developers should stop being lazy whenever a game isn't announced for Wii U but why should they have to jump through hoops bring games to the system that will struggle to even reach 400k, these are businesses who's primary goal is to make money just like Nintendo are so I can't understand how trying to make things easier like less optimization on games from having all consoles using the same architecture is seen as bad, honestly there is to much of an entitled attitude with gamers in general.

If you read the whole piece, then you could have seen that I said not ALL developers and I also explained it is mainly a money issue and not a skill issue because most of them are VERY familiar with architectures such as used in the Wii U, and if their employer had given them enough time, they could have made some truly decent ports, that could also have looked quite a bit better than last gen's console versions.

And they DID have more than enough time to properly develop in the beginning of the Wii U's life cycle, when the whole money vs installed base thing wasn't even an issue yet, but even then they didn't optimize their CPU based games towards the Wii U's GPGPU based structure, which they COULD have done. (Criterion at least made an effort with the distinctly better looking NFS: Most Wanted)

Shoddy ports ended up being the result, and the Wii U, already being marketed poorly by Nintendo suffered a lot of bad reviews as a result, and all that combined resulted in an ever increasing spiral of poor sales.
Third parties ran for no other reason than not being able to earn enough money off of Wii U/Nintendo. Understandable from a business point of view, but they need to say as much and not come up with all these BS reasons and they should have at least made a complete effort. Only a few developers did, but by then it was already to late: the damage was done. All other games/gimped ports fulfilled their own destiny by not selling well for the obvious reasons: no multiplayer/online, no current/future DLC, no optimization and let's not forget still asking for full price, like in the case of Mass Effect where other platforms got the whole trilogy for less.

EDIT: forgot the worst offender: delayed releases...

Edited on by ThanosReXXX

'The console wars are like boobs. Sony and Microsoft fight over which ones look the nicest and Nintendo's are the most fun to play with.'

Nintendo Network ID: TheRealThanos

SCRAPPER392

@arnoldlayne83
Ya, and Wii U is even less ripe than Xbox One and PS4, because they never put in as much effort into their games for Wii U as they did for those consoles. Consumers are just as much part of why Wii U is the way it is. It's that whole "vicious cycle" thing, and there is no way to end it. Relatively speaking, people SHOULD have bought the Wii U for games like CoD Black Ops II, considering they bought Xbox One and PS4 for Ghosts. So it doesn't make sense why people would complain about the lack of 3rd party titles when they didn't buy them anyway.

I bought CoD on Wii U. Xbox One and PS4 weren't even out yet, and that means people didn't want to buy CoD on Wii U. They wanted to buy CoD on Xbox and PS, instead.

Qwest

Nintendo Network ID: Children

mamp

@TheRealThanos Can't believe I actually read through it but I found time For sure I know of some companies that hold a grudge against Nintendo due to their old business practices.

Also I recently saw this video post. While I do believe image plays some factor I don't believe image is everything.

Edited on by mamp

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DefHalan

@mamp

That was the most convincing argument for a price drop I have seen. Also it is just a great video.

People keep saying the Xbox One doesn't have Backwards Compatibility.
I don't think they know what Backwards Compatibility means...

Nintendo Network ID: DefHalan

sub12

@mamp

Good video, and I do agree that Rare helped give Nintendo that cool factor in the 5th gen, I almost wonder if Nintendo will keep on coming back to Platinum Games to help provide that mature edge...........one thing Platinum has more so than Rare is that the titles appeal to both Japanese and Western gamers, although admittedly, despite being highly praised they rarely set the world on fire sales wise............unless Nintendo allows them to work with some of there IP's, that's what made Rare explode, right? Rare was already know for Battletoads and pushing the hardware of the NES, but it was the Donkey Kong IP and DKC that allowed the company to explode.

sub12

kereke12

gage_wolf wrote:

kereke12 wrote:

& the reason why Nintendo is being hated so much is because of one person — Mr. Satora Iwata. I'm going to be honest here, I Love Nintendo, big diehard ever since i was a kid and still am but Mr. Iwata doesn't seem to be doing his job very good job at the matter of 3rd parties support. That's the way I feel, he's not doing his job. Its his fault that us Nintendo owners don't see 3rd-parties games that we have to result to other platforms. I stand by on what I just said. HE'S NOT DOING HIS JOB!!!

You get a Wii U yet?

No because its a console not worth getting even though what types of games it has & it hurts me to even say that.

LONG LIVE NINTENDO

Nintendo Network ID: Kereke12

kereke12

I'm sorry but I just had to say it, its not worth getting. Because If Nintendo is not going to put effort into the console then why should I? That's the way I see it, there not putting enough effort in the console. Again I'm going to say it again it hurts me to even say it & I'm a hardcore Nintendo fan...

LONG LIVE NINTENDO

Nintendo Network ID: Kereke12

skywake

I can't be bothered reading the whole thread................ but in general the answer to these things is:
1. People only go on the internet to vent and whine. When something's great you won't bother talking about it
2. Everyone loves jumping on their soapbox. You think it's bad for the Wii U? Turn on the news
3. People have invested hundreds on their new gaming platform. Some feel the need to defend their choice
4. The average performance of the Wii U early on gave people ammo

But at the end of the day if you're a user who's happy with your choice? Bugger them. Who are they to say what sort of content you should or shouldn't enjoy? Equally if they're enjoying the XBOne right now? More power to them. People get so worked up over this crap. Imagine if there were endless threads about what brand TV is the best and the different sized market share. This is just as stupid as that.

Edited on by skywake

NNID: skywake
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"Don't stir the pot" is a nice way of saying "they're too dumb to reason with"

jariw

kereke12 wrote:

I'm sorry but I just had to say it, its not worth getting. Because If Nintendo is not going to put effort into the console then why should I? That's the way I see it, there not putting enough effort in the console. Again I'm going to say it again it hurts me to even say it & I'm a hardcore Nintendo fan...

I don't consider myself a hardcore Nintendo fan, but I do think Nintendo puts lots of efforts into the Wii U and its games. We get a great value from the Wii U, and the OS updates have added excellent features, such as the Quick Start. The main trouble is that we already have far more great games to play now that we will ever complete. However, if you're going to a forum just to discuss a machine you aren't interested to use, there will not be much to discuss really.

Current Top 15: Splatoon, MK8, Tropical Freeze, Pikmin 3, Terraria for Wii U, Super Mario Maker, Affordable Space Adventures, SM3DW, Yoshi's Woolly World, Twilight Princess:HD, Stealth Inc. 2, LEGO City: Undercover, Captain Toad: Treasure Tracker, Runbow, Bayonetta 1+2

kereke12

jariw wrote:

kereke12 wrote:

I'm sorry but I just had to say it, its not worth getting. Because If Nintendo is not going to put effort into the console then why should I? That's the way I see it, there not putting enough effort in the console. Again I'm going to say it again it hurts me to even say it & I'm a hardcore Nintendo fan...

I don't consider myself a hardcore Nintendo fan, but I do think Nintendo puts lots of efforts into the Wii U and its games. We get a great value from the Wii U, and the OS updates have added excellent features, such as the Quick Start. The main trouble is that we already have far more great games to play now that we will ever complete. However, if you're going to a forum just to discuss a machine you aren't interested to use, there will not be much to discuss really.

Not enough to get third-parties but that's not the problem with why some people hate the Wii U...As for me I don't hate the Wii U, I see a lot of great potential in the console. Its just at the moment I'm not convinced into getting one as of right now...

LONG LIVE NINTENDO

Nintendo Network ID: Kereke12

doctor_doak

Partly their own fault....but also, they're a soft target. Nintendo are a bit weird and isolationist...they don't eat the sort of candy the cool kids have been sold..

A lot of people are counting the days down until Miyamoto is shafted...I don't agree with some of the ideas he's pushed, i.e. motion controls.....but the man's a genius, and an oddity in the current AAA landscape..

It will be a sad day when he retires...He's been saying some very re-assuring things in recent times RE: Nintendo's future...

I'd just like to see more Pikmin type stuff and less Project Giant Robot or Wii Music, tbh...

Focus on innovating within games, and not forcing gimmicky control schemes...

Edited on by doctor_doak

doctor_doak

Ralek85

@TheRealThanos First of all, let me say that I quite enjoyed reading your comment, while I think you were degressing at times, it was still an interesting read at all times, bringing several good points to the table.
The first thing you alluded to, about the hate being from gamers or the industry or both, is one such point. We definitely should differniate that, but honestly, in the end, some of those reasonings will still overlap, some circular logic, so to speak, is bound to apply. In the same vain we should pay more attention to what is actually the cause of a development, what is the effect and last but not least what is the occasion. Despite that it is something I'll keep in mind in the future.

Btw, while it might be OT, I'd love to hear your thoughts on why gamers "hate" (I still feel that is a poor term to use on the subject, but anyways) the WiiU.

As for your actual comment, I'll only address the last part, since for the most part, I agree with what you said, and I really only want to add a couple of remarks, where I think your reasoning was flawed.

TheRealThanos wrote:

  • Nintendo makes the hardware that it wants, not giving third parties their way in giving them a platform to make easy money on.
  • The bigger companies still remember the stranglehold Nintendo had on them in the old days and may still feel some resentment
  • Because of Nintendo's marketing failure, the Wii U platform is too small to make a decent profit on, making development too costly
  • Self-fulfilling prophecy behavior by delivering inferior versions of their own software for full price to "prove" it doesn't sell on Wii U

It is NOT about power, the GamePad, region locking, different chip sets and it's DEFINITELY not about Iwata, that one is too ridiculous to even consider being worth mentioning. Simply put: if the Wii U's market share was large enough, then most of these games WOULD be coming to Wii U, there's no doubt about that, not even a millisecond. Why else did the Wii get so many of these games, practically the whole COD series included, even though the graphic fidelity was WAY lower? Because of money, THAT'S why...
(and Nintendo's marketing is largely at fault for that this time around)

First, the last point about the "Self-fulfilling prophecy behavior", I didn't really get. Why would any of the big publishers have to "prove" anything? If they feel porting/ releasing on the WiiU is not economically viable, they would just skip on it, wouldn't they? You make it sound, in my understanding, as if they had to somehow create a pretext for that? I'm really not sure they do.
In the same vain, I wasn't entirely sure what you meant by "delivering inferior versions of their own software for full price". If I understood you correctly, you yourself made the point, that, while it is not harder but just "less easy", to develop for the WiiU, this of course does drive up costs? To me, from a business side of things, logic would imply, that either the games will be "proper" ports, optimized to architecture at hand, and thereby more expensive, in one way or the other, or they will be about the same price, but "poor" ports, with little optimization. I mean just look at Ubisoft's more or less offical policy when it comes to PC ports. It's not really clear to me, why a dev would bear any responsibility for soaking up that additional cost?
As far as games for the PS4/X1 go, that take actually advantage of those most similar systems, ports of those games would have to be inferior anyways, since the WiiU is a weaker system, despite you being absolutely right about there being no point in 1:1 comparisons. In the end, you are left with a very real power gap, even if you account for "proper" optimization and the locked system ressources, which exist on all three platforms of course.

This brings me to my last point, about this: "It is NOT about power, the GamePad, region locking, different chip sets and it's DEFINITELY not about Iwata". I mostly agree, but for the first two points. Before I get to those, I'd like to add, that I'm not familiar enough with the company structure of Nintendo to assign blame, but Iwata's position, and everything you wrote about company culture/ tradition, would sugget, that he HAS to bear the brunt of the blame for "Nintendo's marketing failure" ...so in that regard, hate for Iwata would not only make sense, but be somewhat undestandable, I wager. I'm not sure there is any hate for Iwata as far as the industry itself is concerend, I really can't speak to that, as for gamers though, there certainly is some hate and for the aformentioned reason, it is somewhat hard to argue with that, I think.

That aside, in regards to power and the Gamepad, I feel you might be wrong or at least only temporarily right. I think the Gamepad is a burden, in some ways, it is a burden in the same way Kinect was and still is. Ironically, I think no where does this become much clearer than by Nintendo's own efforts. I think, after reading your entire comment, you will probably disagree with me, but still, I have to say, most of Nintendo's developers themselves don't seem to know what to do with it. Case in point are for example Intelligent Systems efforts with Wario Ware, which I found, to put it polite, rather, let's say, lacking and uninspired. Additionally, as much as I admire and adore Miyamoto, seeing his projects on the matter, I can't help but feel that even he has an extremly hard time coming up with anything worthwhile here, that will make a real difference to the consumer, add value for them in one way or the other. It can't be a coincidence that so far, for the really overwhelming part, the Gamepad was just used to off-load HUD elements from the "main"-screen to the "second"-screen. Tragically, I think that was not even always benefical, at least in the case of MK8, one of Nintendo's carthorse titles noless, the placement of the map felt not only forced, but actually like a downside. The fact, that they felt the need to address this via an update, is quite telling I think. But I don't want to get into the Gamepad much more than that, I think I made my point already ^^.

As for power, there is an issue here, I feel you have basically just ignored. The question is this, what about next year, and what about the years after? What I mean is this: Sure you could have put Destiny, with some very real effort I guess, on the WiiU ... but what about Destiny 2 and 3? Assuming those will push the graphics, the physics, the AI, the scale of the world and so on and so forth, I really don't see how the WiiU would be able to cope with that. You seem to be way more tech savy than me, but from what I can gather, that seems like a deadend to me. That is all completely ignoring the very legitimate question of the viability of the Nintendo Network vs PSN/ Xlive. The reason I chose Destiny is of course it's imminent release next week and it's status as one of THE big industry releases this year. But of course the real meat here lies with the 2015 releases and what will come beyond that. Would it be possible to make a game like The Division, to give another example, or even The Witcher 3, for the WiiU, without, due to technical limitations, compromising it's design? Completely ignoring the fact, that porting might not be economically viable once again, how about the actual integritiy of the product itself? If you read, sometimes between the lines^^, some interviews/ comments by industry representatives, the impression I get, is that, even if it made economic sense, to bring those big future games to the WiiU, it wouldn't make any sense design-wise.

In that regard, the WiiU has a problem, a design-flaw if you will (again, who would be held responsible for that?^^) and on that ground I would contend, that your claim, that "if the Wii U's market share was large enough, then most of these games WOULD be coming to Wii U, there's no doubt about that, not even a millisecond", is not entirely correct, or to be more precise, WILL be turning out to be wrong. Certainly, WAY more games would be coming the WiiU's way, IF it could boast the same kind of installbase as the other platforms, but "most" seems doubtful at best, and if we take a long term perspective, that share would certainly decrease over time, probably rapidly at that. I mean, and that is important to keep in mind, even the Wii, with it incredible installbase last gen, didn't get blessed with many of the big "next-gen" games, just think of the likes of RDR or GTAV etc. The WiiU has nowhere near that market power, and the incentive to limit one's design to accomodate the WiiU is basically non-existent.
If I put it that way, I have to say, I think I might actually be glad, that this seems to be in fact the case.

Edited on by Ralek85

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ThanosReXXX

mamp wrote:

@TheRealThanos Can't believe I actually read through it but I found time For sure I know of some companies that hold a grudge against Nintendo due to their old business practices.

Well thank you for the effort, your time and an interesting video. As for your reaction to that video and saying that image may be "some" part but not everything, I can only give you my professional point of view:
I've been a professional in Sales & Marketing for almost 14 years now and have worked for several large IT related companies.
Image is the first big step in this whole strategy and initially, it actually IS everything. The product itself is of secondary importance. A well known phrase in sales and marketing is "sell the sizzle, not the steak" meaning that you must pay more attention to selling the feeling and comfort that people get from your product, rather than telling them how powerful or modern and versatile it is. And in the case of consoles, one should market how you would enjoy having one and how much fun you could have with it.

With the coming of the other two consoles this has changed quite a bit, because they DID start to pour out tons of data concerning how powerful they were and what was inside the box. As we all know, Nintendo has never been that forthcoming with hardware information and that never bothered anyone, until Microsoft and Sony started to do it. Sony being particularly notorious for using almost half of its E3 presentations to bore us to death with endless slideshows of numbers and data. This year they've made a massive improvement and it shows in the results, so that is what image can do for you. The image is the foundation or, if you will, the face of your product and from there on out, you can build so it is not "some" part, it is a BIG part.

'The console wars are like boobs. Sony and Microsoft fight over which ones look the nicest and Nintendo's are the most fun to play with.'

Nintendo Network ID: TheRealThanos

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