Also, I think we can all agree that a tuned-up Super Mario Sunshine re-release would be fantastic, yes?
Yes, yes, and more yes. Windwaker HD, OOT, and nearly every Zelda ever made 2D or 3D, were all about open world exploration. So were early 3D Mario games.
IMO, it's not necessarily about collecting scads of items (like banana coins in DK64) but about free range exploration of a 3D universe. Super Mario 3D Land/World feels like glorified obstacle courses. Starting with Galaxy, they added some linearity into the equation while keeping the free range aesthetic, by keeping planetoids nice and small while using star launchers to propel you to the next area. Galaxy 2 gave you world maps to be completed in linear fashion. Occasionally you would find an alternate exit with alternate paths, but this was the exception rather than the rule. 3D Land/World is literally A-to-Z with an occasional White Tanooki or invincibility powerup box to get you through and encourage completion in case you got stuck.
Nintendo are obviously using the open world aesthetic for Zelda Franchise. I would simply like to see it return for 3D Mario. Or at least give us Super Mario Galaxy 3 as a late release Wii-U entry. The Galaxy sagas were IMO some of the best 3D Marios ever made, but I still love me some Sunshine and M64.
"What is the exact sequence I need to do to progress?" and more "How can I get from where I am to where I want to be?".
That is what I don't like - rather spend the time playing than stopped trying to work out what to do. (Multiple Paths for e.g S Ranks like Sonic is ok).
It's less complicated than it sounds, especially when the level design is intuitive. If anything, the linear platformers are worse in that regard because they're more punishing, they require more exact moves and timing. Collectathons rarely require precise platforming.
Collect more Power Stars!
Collect more Red, blue and gold coins! And now, silver coins!
Just like blue coins, it will be activated by a switch. All enemies you defeat will grant you silver coins for an alotted time!
Silver coin cash value is 25 gold coins!
Remember those shadow stars? Well for every 10 you collect, a new secret Rainbow star will appear! 50 new Rainbow stars to collect and unlock the dreaded secret painting, Rainbow Mountain!
Also, there will be more caps to collect! And now, you can keep your caps with a new inventory system!
Collect all caps to unlock a special crown cap! This will enable you to use any power cap ability when you run out of power caps!
Well for me the whole point in playing a platformer is for precise platforming. (Doesn't matter whether it is 2D or 3D).
Rather play something in a different genre entirely if it is not going to have that. Don't see the point.
The platforming serves a different role than in a linear platformer. In a linear platformer you're given a set path and you have to complete the level more or less the way it's designed to be completed. You have to use the right moves at the right time to progress. But in a collectathon the platforming is less restrictive and serves as a tool for exploration. You have to use your platforming skills to get around the level and find secrets, and there's not always one best way to do that. Sunshine in particular is very good at this, the level design is more open ended and FLUDD enhances your platforming abilities, and with enough platforming skill you can perform all manner of clever shortcuts and get around the level in different ways, giving the game somewhat of a parkour feel. For instance, in Ricco Harbor Episode 1 you have to get to the upper part of the harbor to fight Gooper Blooper. Now the level suggests one path through the level, which involves going straight across the tanker, turning right and going through a maze of chain link fences, and then raising a submarine and climbing another chain link fence up to Gooper Blooper. But there are other ways to get around the level. You can use a flip or spin jump off the tanker's smokestack to get to the girders and walk along them to reach the upper harbor. And if you're really daring, you can use a triple jump off the tanker and then hover all the way to the edge of the upper harbor. So by combining your platforming abilities with the environment (in this case, the tanker), you can find your own way around the level.
Well for me the whole point in playing a platformer is for precise platforming. (Doesn't matter whether it is 2D or 3D).
Rather play something in a different genre entirely if it is not going to have that. Don't see the point.
Good point on the Ricco Harbor episode. The platforming serves a different role than in a linear platformer. In a linear platformer you're given a set path and you have to complete the level more or less the way it's designed to be completed. You have to use the right moves at the right time to progress. But in a collectathon the platforming is less restrictive and serves as a tool for exploration. You have to use your platforming skills to get around the level and find secrets, and there's not always one best way to do that. Sunshine in particular is very good at this, the level design is more open ended and FLUDD enhances your platforming abilities, and with enough platforming skill you can perform all manner of clever shortcuts and get around the level in different ways, giving the game somewhat of a parkour feel. For instance, in Ricco Harbor Episode 1 you have to get to the upper part of the harbor to fight Gooper Blooper. Now the level suggests one path through the level, which involves going straight across the tanker, turning right and going through a maze of chain link fences, and then raising a submarine and climbing another chain link fence up to Gooper Blooper. But there are other ways to get around the level. You can use a flip or spin jump off the tanker's smokestack to get to the girders and walk along them to reach the upper harbor. And if you're really daring, you can use a triple jump off the tanker and then hover all the way to the edge of the upper harbor. So by combining your platforming abilities with the environment (in this case, the tanker), you can find your own way around the level.
I remember going through the jungle gym to reach the Gooper Blooper the first time I played. As I got more versed with platforming skills, I found some awesome shortcuts and began to wonder why anyone would do it the hard way.
Case in point, in the Ricco Harbor Episode where you're supposed to climb to the top of the tube and drop in, there's a seemingly endless maze of girders to traverse, with those annoying tornado dudes trying to bump you off at every moment. One misstep will send you plummetting down to the bottom to do it all over again. An easier way to get in the cage is to stand on the top of the boat pipe, side flip into the air, and use the hover nozzle to slide under the tube. Once you grab the bottom, flip up through the window to collect the shine.
Sure, you'll miss out on a lot of blue coin opportunities and the rocket nozzle which you will need in later episodes, but a shortcut is a shortcut. There's an inconvenient mess of blooper goop / oil slick under the tube preventing you from rocketing up there from the water, but once you've recieved the rocket nozzle, nothing to stop you from grabbing the hover nozzle or long-jumping from the steamboat underneath the tube while charging the rocket shot. If timed properly you'll blast up before hitting the water and latch on underneath.
Non-linear level design such as M64 and Sunshine encourages people to think outside the box and use creative problem solving to complete a level or objective. A glorified obstacle course really is only a test of timing and reflexes. Go look up some speed run videos of Mario Sunshine and M64. It's amazing some of the ludicrus shortcuts people can pull off. Rarely is there an opportunity for acrobatics of that caliber with the 3D Land/World games.
Well for me the whole point in playing a platformer is for precise platforming. (Doesn't matter whether it is 2D or 3D).
Rather play something in a different genre entirely if it is not going to have that. Don't see the point.
Good point on the Ricco Harbor episode. The platforming serves a different role than in a linear platformer. In a linear platformer you're given a set path and you have to complete the level more or less the way it's designed to be completed. You have to use the right moves at the right time to progress. But in a collectathon the platforming is less restrictive and serves as a tool for exploration. You have to use your platforming skills to get around the level and find secrets, and there's not always one best way to do that. Sunshine in particular is very good at this, the level design is more open ended and FLUDD enhances your platforming abilities, and with enough platforming skill you can perform all manner of clever shortcuts and get around the level in different ways, giving the game somewhat of a parkour feel. For instance, in Ricco Harbor Episode 1 you have to get to the upper part of the harbor to fight Gooper Blooper. Now the level suggests one path through the level, which involves going straight across the tanker, turning right and going through a maze of chain link fences, and then raising a submarine and climbing another chain link fence up to Gooper Blooper. But there are other ways to get around the level. You can use a flip or spin jump off the tanker's smokestack to get to the girders and walk along them to reach the upper harbor. And if you're really daring, you can use a triple jump off the tanker and then hover all the way to the edge of the upper harbor. So by combining your platforming abilities with the environment (in this case, the tanker), you can find your own way around the level.
I remember going through the jungle gym to reach the Gooper Blooper the first time I played. As I got more versed with platforming skills, I found some awesome shortcuts and began to wonder why anyone would do it the hard way.
Case in point, in the Ricco Harbor Episode where you're supposed to climb to the top of the tube and drop in, there's a seemingly endless maze of girders to traverse, with those annoying tornado dudes trying to bump you off at every moment. One misstep will send you plummetting down to the bottom to do it all over again. An easier way to get in the cage is to stand on the top of the boat pipe, side flip into the air, and use the hover nozzle to slide under the tube. Once you grab the bottom, flip up through the window to collect the shine.
Sure, you'll miss out on a lot of blue coin opportunities and the rocket nozzle which you will need in later episodes, but a shortcut is a shortcut. There's an inconvenient mess of blooper goop / oil slick under the tube preventing you from rocketing up there from the water, but once you've recieved the rocket nozzle, nothing to stop you from grabbing the hover nozzle or long-jumping from the steamboat underneath the tube while charging the rocket shot. If timed properly you'll blast up before hitting the water and latch on underneath.
Non-linear level design such as M64 and Sunshine encourages people to think outside the box and use creative problem solving to complete a level or objective. A glorified obstacle course really is only a test of timing and reflexes. Go look up some speed run videos of Mario Sunshine and M64. It's amazing some of the ludicrus shortcuts people can pull off. Rarely is there an opportunity for acrobatics of that caliber with the 3D Land/World games.
Exactly, the open ended level design and the complex, chainable movesets allow for some crazy acrobatics. Although I will say they should avoid leaving in shortcuts that let you beat the level in 30 seconds if they can, the level shouldn't be that short.
Case in point, in the Ricco Harbor Episode where you're supposed to climb to the top of the tube and drop in, there's a seemingly endless maze of girders to traverse, with those annoying tornado dudes trying to bump you off at every moment. One misstep will send you plummetting down to the bottom to do it all over again. An easier way to get in the cage is to stand on the top of the boat pipe, side flip into the air, and use the hover nozzle to slide under the tube. Once you grab the bottom, flip up through the window to collect the shine.
Sure, you'll miss out on a lot of blue coin opportunities and the rocket nozzle which you will need in later episodes, but a shortcut is a shortcut. There's an inconvenient mess of blooper goop / oil slick under the tube preventing you from rocketing up there from the water, but once you've recieved the rocket nozzle, nothing to stop you from grabbing the hover nozzle or long-jumping from the steamboat underneath the tube while charging the rocket shot. If timed properly you'll blast up before hitting the water and latch on underneath.
That's how I did it always though. I grabbed the Rocket Nozzle and jumped back in the water. If you charge the Rocket Nozzle underwater, beneath the oil, then surface, and jump at the right time; you can rocket yourself to the underside of the cage as well. I don't know why I did it that way; I probably got annoyed by those Wind Duppies, but it's definitely possible.
I didn't think it was possible to blast through the goop as you need to be above the surface or the rocket nozzle will misfire, and you take damage when you hit the oil. Start charging the rocket nozzle as you leap off the boat over the oil slick, and it will blast off just before you hit the surface. If timed correctly you will hit the shine cage.
My first playthrough I spent a couple hours trying to get into the stupid shine cage, and when I finally did, it felt like such an accomplishment. Then I noticed the trap door on the bottom. I replayed the episode after awarding the shine and found I could quickly access the bottom of the cage using either nozzle. Also I believe with the rocket, you can collect the blue coins off the girders in a couple of the other episodes without contending with those annoying tornado dudes.
@StarDust4Ever You don't blast through the goop, you partly charge FLUDD underwater, if you surface quickly and jump right when the charge meter fills completely, you can make it. It's quite possible you take some damage, but it works.
@StarDust4Ever You don't blast through the goop, you partly charge FLUDD underwater, if you surface quickly and jump right when the charge meter fills completely, you can make it. It's quite possible you take some damage, but it works.
Or just avoid the risk of taking damage altogether by avoiding the goopey water altogether and jumping off the boat while charging your shot.
Point taken; there's plenty of ways other than the intended route, to reach the target. That actually adds tons of replay value to the levels by finding multiple paths to reach the same goal. I've grabbed countless stars and shines even though I already had them.
The stage design in Super Mario 64 and Sunshine really encourages you to goof off sometimes!
I would really love a good old collectathon game, with varied environments, lots and lots of different secrets and unclockables, and a really tight movement system with smooth jumping and climbing.
I don't really care what game series it's set in, but the setting needs to be fresh
What about the Raymond games for 3DS and Wii-U? Those were free-range platformers, weren't they? I did end up selling back my Raymond 3DS after better games started coming through the pipes, as it just didn't seem to compare to the classic RARE N64 titles like Banjo Kazooie / Tooie, DK64, Conkers BFD, etc...
What about the Raymond games for 3DS and Wii-U? Those were free-range platformers, weren't they? I did end up selling back my Raymond 3DS after better games started coming through the pipes, as it just didn't seem to compare to the classic RARE N64 titles like Banjo Kazooie / Tooie, DK64, Conkers BFD, etc...
Raymond? Do you mean Rayman?
Rayman isn't a collectathon. You collect Lums throughout the game, but the levels are still linear, get to the goal style. It's no more a collectathon than 3D World.
What about the Raymond games for 3DS and Wii-U? Those were free-range platformers, weren't they? I did end up selling back my Raymond 3DS after better games started coming through the pipes, as it just didn't seem to compare to the classic RARE N64 titles like Banjo Kazooie / Tooie, DK64, Conkers BFD, etc...
Raymond? Do you mean Rayman?
Rayman isn't a collectathon. You collect Lums throughout the game, but the levels are still linear, get to the goal style. It's no more a collectathon than 3D World.
I thought the port of Rayman 2 on 3DS WAS a collectathon.
Currently Playing: Steamworld Heist, The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask, Tales of Graces F
What about the Raymond games for 3DS and Wii-U? Those were free-range platformers, weren't they? I did end up selling back my Raymond 3DS after better games started coming through the pipes, as it just didn't seem to compare to the classic RARE N64 titles like Banjo Kazooie / Tooie, DK64, Conkers BFD, etc...
Raymond? Do you mean Rayman?
Rayman isn't a collectathon. You collect Lums throughout the game, but the levels are still linear, get to the goal style. It's no more a collectathon than 3D World.
I thought the port of Rayman 2 on 3DS WAS a collectathon.
It's not. For it to be a collectathon, collecting the item in question has to be the primary goal in the game. The Lums aren't the central focus in Rayman.
What about the Raymond games for 3DS and Wii-U? Those were free-range platformers, weren't they? I did end up selling back my Raymond 3DS after better games started coming through the pipes, as it just didn't seem to compare to the classic RARE N64 titles like Banjo Kazooie / Tooie, DK64, Conkers BFD, etc...
Raymond? Do you mean Rayman?
Rayman isn't a collectathon. You collect Lums throughout the game, but the levels are still linear, get to the goal style. It's no more a collectathon than 3D World.
I thought the port of Rayman 2 on 3DS WAS a collectathon.
It's not. For it to be a collectathon, collecting the item in question has to be the primary goal in the game. The Lums aren't the central focus in Rayman.
I don't think it's necessary for the primary objective to be the collectible items.
Super Mario Sunshine becomes a massive collectathon if you want to collect every blue coin in the game and get 120 Shines. The 100 coin and red coin Shines also have a collectathon aspect. As it is, you can complete the game with only 50 shines by getting the seventh shine in all seven stages. The first shine in Bianco Hills is skippable but you also get one from the airstrip at the beginning of the game and one in the end for defeating Bowser.
The Blue coins can safely be ignored if your primary goal is to rescue Peach and not 100% the game, but does that make Super Mario Sunshine less of a collectathon simly because they are optional?
Why do people keep wanting Duck Hunt to be a collectathon? Is it just because of the Banjo/Kazooie dynamic? Because first of all that feels like a ripoff, but more importantly it feels kind of forced. The original game had nothing to do with collectathon platforming and it doesn't really feel like a natural fit for the genre. I think if they were to modernize the IP it would be better as an open world shooter.
What? I've hear a lot of hubbub made about Far Cry 5's setting and premise, but no one's suggested Duck Hunt yet, lol. I can't say I see that fitting very well. I'd rather Metroid Prime become more of an open world shooter. Keep the metroidvanian structure, but open the paths up more and focus on exploration of one single planet. If they could improve upon the mechanics of Corruption and apply those to a singular world that's much more open than Tallon IV I'd be quite happy.
It's not. For it to be a collectathon, collecting the item in question has to be the primary goal in the game. The Lums aren't the central focus in Rayman.
I don't think it's necessary for the primary objective to be the collectible items.
Super Mario Sunshine becomes a massive collectathon if you want to collect every blue coin in the game and get 120 Shines. The 100 coin and red coin Shines also have a collectathon aspect. As it is, you can complete the game with only 50 shines by getting the seventh shine in all seven stages. The first shine in Bianco Hills is skippable but you also get one from the airstrip at the beginning of the game and one in the end for defeating Bowser.
The Blue coins can safely be ignored if your primary goal is to rescue Peach and not 100% the game, but does that make Super Mario Sunshine less of a collectathon simly because they are optional?
Any game can have collectible items though, that's not really a genre defining trait. I can name dozens of games from various genres that also have optional collectibles. So item collecting has to be a required part of the gameplay. But even that is not enough. After all, you collect Green Stars to progress in 3D World, but most people would probably agree that that doesn't make 3D World a collectathon because the gameplay still consists of platforming through linear levels to reach the goal. But in 64, Sunshine, and Galaxy, your main goal is to collect Power Stars/Shine Sprites. Likewise with Banjo-Kazooie, Jak and Daxter, Spyro, Ty the Tasmanian Tiger, etc. So that would be more genre defining.
Forums
Topic: What Should Nintendo Do with the Collectathon Genre?
Posts 41 to 60 of 102
This topic has been archived, no further posts can be added.