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Topic: The Official "Help with Indie Games" Thread

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LetsGoRetro

So, I just got my Wii U back yesterday, and it's a little overwhelming looking at the eShop. I know lots of the Virtual Console stuff, but the indie stuff is mysterious. It looks cool, but is it? Is it quality? I could read reviews, sure, but sometimes I like to just read what someone like me on a message board thinks of something instead of a person at a large gaming corporation or a reviewer who's prioritizing sounding smart and hipster over really telling me what he thinks about what he's reviewing.

So, in this thread, someone will name titles, and the responder will tell if they like or dislike the game, as well as WHY, detailing the parts of the game that made it enjoyable, or not so, for them. The titles that have grabbed my interest on, but I'm not sure about, are:

  • Cubemen 2
  • Teslagrad
  • NES Remix 1 & 2 (Are both good? Either? Is it worth buying both if they're both good, or are they too similar?)
  • Steamworld Dig

LetsGoRetro

kkslider5552000

NES Remix's fun is based entirely on whether you think the games in them are worthwhile for 10 hours of mini-challenges. I literally don't have much to add, if you think playing these games while given mini tasks to quickly complete (with a few more creative tasks that change the games here or there) sounds fun, then get it.

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skywake

jariw wrote:

NES Remix 1&2 are made by Tokyo EAD, it's not an indie.

Indie doesn't mean indie anymore. We all know this, no need to be so pedantic. Indie has come to mean any game that's at a lower price point that you can enjoy for a couple of hours before you move onto the next thing. The word only means what people use it for and that's how it's used. Plus frankly? That sort of meaning is more useful because as a consumer you couldn't care less about how a game is made. You only care about what it is you're getting. And in that sense, NES Remix is "indie".

As for the OP... well I've only played NES Remix and Steam World Dig. I'd definitely lean towards Steam World Dig as the bigger "must have" game. Although personally I'm more hyped about Shovel Knight if you can get that already in your region I haven't played it because it's not out here on Wii U/3DS yet. But of all the "indie" style games I've played that are on Wii U? Steam World Dig I enjoyed the most.... maybe even my favourite indie game on any platform.

Edited on by skywake

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unrandomsam

skywake wrote:

jariw wrote:

NES Remix 1&2 are made by Tokyo EAD, it's not an indie.

Indie doesn't mean indie anymore. We all know this, no need to be so pedantic. Indie has come to mean any game that's at a lower price point that you can enjoy for a couple of hours before you move onto the next thing. The word only means what people use it for and that's how it's used. Plus frankly? That sort of meaning is more useful because as a consumer you couldn't care less about how a game is made. You only care about what it is you're getting. And in that sense, NES Remix is "indie".

As for the OP... well I've only played NES Remix and Steam World Dig. I'd definitely lean towards Steam World Dig as the bigger "must have" game. Although personally I'm more hyped about Shovel Knight if you can get that already in your region I haven't played it because it's not out here on Wii U/3DS yet. But of all the "indie" style games I've played that are on Wii U? Steam World Dig I enjoyed the most.... maybe even my favourite indie game on any platform.

No it hasn't. It has always meant stuff not done by or without being paid for by a publisher. Perfectly simple concept.

Edited on by unrandomsam

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CanisWolfred

So explain the "Indie" sections in the eShop and PSN? Last I checked, a bunch of those games definitely got a publisher somewhere.

Also, just to nitpick, if you're not a staff, it's not "official". It's just a thread.

Edited on by CanisWolfred

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unrandomsam

CanisWolfred wrote:

So explain the "Indie" sections in the eShop and PSN? Last I checked, a bunch of those games definitely got a publisher somewhere.

Also, just to nitpick, if you're not a staff, it's not "official". It's just a thread.

After they were made ? I think that is allowed under the definition. (Same way that an original indie film doesn't stop being that if some kind of agreement is made afterwards to show it in a decent number of cinema's).

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Freedom of the press is for those who happen to own one.

DefHalan

Indie means independent, which means the development wasn't paid for outside the company that made it. (There might be an additional definition that the company is also privately owned, like Valve) People use indie to mean "smaller" games, games that don't have the scale of $60 retail games.

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spizzamarozzi

@CanisWolfred I think we've had this discussion 30 times or something. Of course in the beginning "indie" means no high budget, no deals and no money from publishers, no major distributors etc. Like indie music between the 80s and the 90s, when "indie" starts to sell enough to get recognition, publisher want to put their hands on those money. That's why we get this weird frankenstein of indie studios who keep an indie "profile" (low budget, low mass appeal, generally higher artistic freedom etc) but are now backed by publishers and use major distribution channels.

It is exacly the same thing that happened with music. @unrandomsam do you remember Creation Records in the UK? It was an "indie" label who had Oasis, Primal Scream, Jesus & Mary Chain, Super Furry Animals etc. The artists had the freedom of keeping an indie approach but they were still distributed by Sony!

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unrandomsam

spizzamarozzi wrote:

@CanisWolfred I think we've had this discussion 30 times or something. Of course in the beginning "indie" means no high budget, no deals and no money from publishers, no major distributors etc. Like indie music between the 80s and the 90s, when "indie" starts to sell enough to get recognition, publisher want to put their hands on those money. That's why we get this weird frankenstein of indie studios who keep an indie "profile" (low budget, low mass appeal, generally higher artistic freedom etc) but are now backed by publishers and use major distribution channels.

It is exacly the same thing that happened with music. @unrandomsam do you remember Creation Records in the UK? It was an "indie" label who had Oasis, Primal Scream, Jesus & Mary Chain, Super Furry Animals etc. The artists had the freedom of keeping an indie approach but they were still distributed by Sony!

The definition is what the dictionary says it is and it doesn't include that.

It is taking a well defined concept that has no ambiguity and trying to make it mean everything.

“30fps Is Not a Good Artistic Decision, It's a Failure”
Freedom of the press is for those who happen to own one.

CanisWolfred

unrandomsam wrote:

CanisWolfred wrote:

So explain the "Indie" sections in the eShop and PSN? Last I checked, a bunch of those games definitely got a publisher somewhere.

Also, just to nitpick, if you're not a staff, it's not "official". It's just a thread.

After they were made ? I think that is allowed under the definition. (Same way that an original indie film doesn't stop being that if some kind of agreement is made afterwards to show it in a decent number of cinema's).

...no, like, the PixelJunk games are/were? in the indie section last I checked. That stuff was definitely published and funded by Sony. I think it's more like Spizzaroni said, it's a word whose meaning is being stretched by the publishers to mean low-budget games rather than solely referring to self-published studio games.

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Prof_Clayton

Cubemen 2 is pretty fun, unless you're set on online since it is struggling. The main game feels more like a tutrial for online, but you can play against CPUs.
Teslagrad I haven't played, but is supposed to be very enjoyable, Never heard anything negative anyway.
NES REMIX 1&2, as others here have said, are both very fun if you're interested in the concept. If you think you won't like it, you probably won't, so go with your gut here.
Steamworld Dig is definitely worth it unless you really dislike the idea of the platforming. Its very enjoyable and unique.

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unrandomsam

CanisWolfred wrote:

unrandomsam wrote:

CanisWolfred wrote:

So explain the "Indie" sections in the eShop and PSN? Last I checked, a bunch of those games definitely got a publisher somewhere.

Also, just to nitpick, if you're not a staff, it's not "official". It's just a thread.

After they were made ? I think that is allowed under the definition. (Same way that an original indie film doesn't stop being that if some kind of agreement is made afterwards to show it in a decent number of cinema's).

...no, like, the PixelJunk games are/were? in the indie section last I checked. That stuff was definitely published and funded by Sony. I think it's more like Spizzaroni said, it's a word whose meaning is being stretched by the publishers to mean low-budget games rather than solely referring to self-published studio games.

The Steam versions of those are self published and don't mention Sony. (At least the ones I could find). If Sony paid for it I would assume they wouldn't let them be put on Steam.

Edited on by unrandomsam

“30fps Is Not a Good Artistic Decision, It's a Failure”
Freedom of the press is for those who happen to own one.

CanisWolfred

Which Remix would you say is better, though? Or does it require more research into what games and activities are in the game (i.e. Am I more interested in seeing Link in Donkey Kong? Or Metroid in Mario?)

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ollibald

Definitely check out teslagrad!
(I did a lot of the art in it so i'm biased, but i genuinely feel it's an excellent game)

ollibald

spizzamarozzi

unrandomsam wrote:

spizzamarozzi wrote:

@CanisWolfred I think we've had this discussion 30 times or something. Of course in the beginning "indie" means no high budget, no deals and no money from publishers, no major distributors etc. Like indie music between the 80s and the 90s, when "indie" starts to sell enough to get recognition, publisher want to put their hands on those money. That's why we get this weird frankenstein of indie studios who keep an indie "profile" (low budget, low mass appeal, generally higher artistic freedom etc) but are now backed by publishers and use major distribution channels.

It is exacly the same thing that happened with music. @unrandomsam do you remember Creation Records in the UK? It was an "indie" label who had Oasis, Primal Scream, Jesus & Mary Chain, Super Furry Animals etc. The artists had the freedom of keeping an indie approach but they were still distributed by Sony!

The definition is what the dictionary says it is and it doesn't include that.

It is taking a well defined concept that has no ambiguity and trying to make it mean everything.

If you want to be a purist, then the true indie game phenomenom is the one in the 80s where you actually had to KNOW they guy who made the game to get a copy. Of course the word is stretched now because we have invented systems that allow you to make you product on your own but still rely on big companies like Sony, Microsoft or Nintendo to distribute your product or to make it available to the audience.
Having Nintendo put a banner of "my" game on the front page of the eShop wouldn't be indie if we stick to the dictionary.
Actually, if we stick to the proper historic definition, with all its implications, "indies" should hate their product getting mass recognition and success. The moment I see a developer turning down a cheque, we can talk about proper "indie". But I don't see that happening anytime soon.

So, since the methods of distribution and a lot of other things have changed, there's little to no sense in the word "indie" anymore. So we either stop using it altogether when it comes to console games, or we twist the word until it only serves as a reference point to understand the scale, the budget and the appeal of a product.

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CanisWolfred

Believe it or not, there are a few guys who actively refuse to give their games mainstream recognition, the Touhou developer, Team Shanghai Alice, being the most noteable. Personally, though, I'd rather that not be a thing (Seriously, man, the Touhou stuff has a huge following that I doubt a Steam + DLsite.com release would hurt).

Edited on by CanisWolfred

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skywake

unrandomsam wrote:

The definition is what the dictionary says it is and it doesn't include that.
It is taking a well defined concept that has no ambiguity and trying to make it mean everything.

Dictionary definitions mean jack. Language is a fluid thing and words only mean what people intend for them to mean. It's why words and meanings for them are added to and taken out of dictionaries all the time. As it is, indie is being used to mean more than "independent of influence from large content publishers". It has started to reffer a style of game or a particular set of expectations more than it does who paid for it.

You can't escape the fact that games like NES Remix and Child of Light look a lot like Steamworld Dig and Shovel Knight on the digital store front. Especially when you compare them to what you expect from a Smash Bros or Assassin's Creed. Indie was the word that got in there first to describe that non-retail game scene. Now some of those games aren't "independent" but they're more-or-less the same thing. So the word has stuck. It's no big deal plus it makes more sense than calling them two entirely different things.

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unrandomsam

skywake wrote:

unrandomsam wrote:

The definition is what the dictionary says it is and it doesn't include that.
It is taking a well defined concept that has no ambiguity and trying to make it mean everything.

Dictionary definitions mean jack. Language is a fluid thing and words only mean what people intend for them to mean. It's why words and meanings for them are added to and taken out of dictionaries all the time. As it is, indie is being used to mean more than "independent of influence from large content publishers". It has started to reffer a style of game or a particular set of expectations more than it does who paid for it.

You can't escape the fact that games like NES Remix and Child of Light look a lot like Steamworld Dig and Shovel Knight on the digital store front. Especially when you compare them to what you expect from a Smash Bros or Assassin's Creed. Indie was the word that got in there first to describe that non-retail game scene. Now some of those games aren't "independent" but they're more-or-less the same thing. So the word has stuck. It's no big deal plus it makes more sense than calling them two entirely different things.

Two entirely different things would be far more useful. They are not more or less the same.

Stuff like Spelunky is a proper game. It took me about as much as Tropical Freeze to do it.

The ones by big publishers are really short and easy.

“30fps Is Not a Good Artistic Decision, It's a Failure”
Freedom of the press is for those who happen to own one.

CanisWolfred

unrandomsam wrote:

skywake wrote:

unrandomsam wrote:

The definition is what the dictionary says it is and it doesn't include that.
It is taking a well defined concept that has no ambiguity and trying to make it mean everything.

Dictionary definitions mean jack. Language is a fluid thing and words only mean what people intend for them to mean. It's why words and meanings for them are added to and taken out of dictionaries all the time. As it is, indie is being used to mean more than "independent of influence from large content publishers". It has started to reffer a style of game or a particular set of expectations more than it does who paid for it.

You can't escape the fact that games like NES Remix and Child of Light look a lot like Steamworld Dig and Shovel Knight on the digital store front. Especially when you compare them to what you expect from a Smash Bros or Assassin's Creed. Indie was the word that got in there first to describe that non-retail game scene. Now some of those games aren't "independent" but they're more-or-less the same thing. So the word has stuck. It's no big deal plus it makes more sense than calling them two entirely different things.

Two entirely different things would be far more useful. They are not more or less the same.

Stuff like Spelunky is a proper game. It took me about as much as Tropical Freeze to do it.

The ones by big publishers are really short and easy.

...okay, it's like you're becoming a parody of yourself. Just...stop already. We were having a semi-decent discussion, don't go pulling out your usual nonsense, especially when it doesn't apply here. There was no reason to start talking like the length, difficulty, and/or quality actually has anything to do with whether or not they're actually "indie". Lets just go back to talking about what the word "indie" really means before it gets distorted further, k?

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