This guy gets it. People don't really hate Nintendo for being kiddy, they hate Nintendo for not making the same dull dudebro shooters that everyone else does. Frankly, they deserve much better than that, but unfortunately this industry is full of complete morons with no taste.
Right, there are Nintendo games, and there are "the same dull dudebro shooters that everyone does". After all, the world is dark and white, so why shouldn't gaming be the same way ... As for the "complete morons with no taste", who populate the industry, those would just be your average humans, who don't share your preferences, I'm afraid. There is nothing moronic about posing the question, if a game has to be about the caricature of an Italian plumber saving the archetypical princess from her evil abductor, of course, visualized as a monster.
Good luck with fighting the 'kiddy' stereotype with the 'dudebro shooter' stereotype ... this cannot fail, can it?
I know that there's more to it than that. However, pretty much everyone not named Nintendo does not treat it this way. This is very much a black and white industry sadly, because one side (the dudebro shooter side) absolutely refuses to leave their side of the spectrum. Nintendo is stuck as "the other side" by virtue of the fact that they're the only ones with actual variety. People just happen to lump in everything that's not a dudebro shooter as "kiddy".
And yes, they are morons. Not simply because they like a particular game, but because they only want the same kind of CoD clones over and over again ad nauseum. No variety, no wiggle room whatsoever, just the same crap games every time. Look at where the rest of the game industry is now, and you'll see that that's pretty much all that non-Nintendo companies are making. There's something very wrong with this industry if it's converging into one genre.
Woah nintendo is a kiddie company?, i can't play kiddie games. Well i found the solution to my kiddie problem, i'm going to buy a PS4 cause that's where all the mature games are at right guys?
The Harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph. When the going gets tough, the tough gets going.
There's something very wrong with this industry if it's converging into one genre.
But it's not converging into one genre. Although first-person shooters are incredibly popular, sports games, RPGs, racing games and action/adventure games sell very well on Sony and Microsoft consoles. Saying Xbox and PlayStation has nothing more than "dudebro games" is just as ignorant as saying Nintendo only makes kids games.
yes, XBox has some interesting games(though I wouldn't know until I saw them in a thread here)
and Playstation has japanese games, that are 99% of the times the exact oposite of dudebro games.
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There's something very wrong with this industry if it's converging into one genre.
But it's not converging into one genre. Although first-person shooters are incredibly popular, sports games, RPGs, racing games and action/adventure games sell very well on Sony and Microsoft consoles. Saying Xbox and PlayStation has nothing more than "dudebro games" is just as ignorant as saying Nintendo only makes kids games.
There's not a whole lot of those other genres though. It's mainly shooters, shooters, and more shooters. At least with Nintendo they have something for just about every genre, with Microsoft and Sony they have tons of gaps.
@Bolt_Strike You say, that you know, that there is more to it, the next sentence though, you go back to arguing, that no, there is not more to it, that indeed, it is basically all just black and white.
I agree, that there is a Nintendo side and there is "the dudebro shooter side" ... but what you are missing in it's entirety is all the other sides there are. The Limbos and Shadows of the Colossus of this world for example. You are also missing the Sunset Overdrives of the world. It invalidates your line of argument, since you forgo large chunks of reality in regards to the actual state of the industry, you lament, in favour of an artifical two-sided view.
It is also wholly unfair to argue, the "Other side" is lumping anything not "dudebro shooter" together and labels it "kiddy", when honestly, you go the other way, labeling anything Not-Nintendo 'kiddy" as "dudebro shooter". It is pointless and untrue either way.
I cannot help but point out, that you are also off, when you argue that COD clones are "pretty much all that non-Nintendo companies are making". Do you have anything to back this up? It sounds like an empty claim to me.
Also, why would it be moronic to want more of the thing you enjoy? People demand more Zelda, Metroid, Starfox, F-Zero, Advance Wars, etc. pp. all the time ... what's the difference here? Destiny is not COD, and people seem to like it alright. It is also a well-crafted game, promising plenty of fun, be it adventuring together with friends or shooting other people in the arena.
Last but not least, I take offense with your argument about variety. Your point that the only one who offers variety is Nintendo, doesn't ring true. Nintendo has it staples, be it Mario, MK, SSB or something else. So do other developers and platforms, since those IPs tend to pay the bills. Maybe you meant to say, that Nintendo is the only platforming offering something else than seemingly much despised "dudebro shooters" (what's up with that hatred anyways?^^) ... to that I say, what I said before: It ain't so. No Mans Sky. to name just a single remarkable example, is not a "dudebro shooter". Neither is Drive Club or Bloodborne. There are whole genres Nintendo is basically missing, talk about adventures or simulations or RTS games or shooters (I hope Splatoon delivers here, it looks amazing sofar) ... where is the variety there? If you favour platforming, Nintendo has you covered, if you like (s)rpgs (and have a 3DS) they got you too. IF not, well, you might be out of luck.
I really don't like that you had to put me into a position where I once again had to point out, that Nintendo is not the saviour of virtue and creativity in the industry, the champion of joy and beauty. It is a business, with a distinctive approach, which is a good thing, but it also comes with downsides, and of course Nintendo has flaws of it'S very own. Is it charming to be romantic and a tad nostalgic about them? Sure, I am my self at times, and on occasion, Nintendo justifies all that we project onto it. I'D love for Splatoon to be the next Halo, when it comes to the quality and type of entertainment it offers, the competitive one that is, but sales-wise that is not gonna happen. But what do I care? If it is any good, I'll play it, and enjoy it, and I hope Nintendo makes a profit. If someone is turned of by the artstyle or the lack of story, or none-scifi setting, or whatever, that is their choice. They are entitled to it, Splatoon will not be the only great arena shooter vying for the attention of gamers around the world. It won't be the best choice for all and everyone. I really enjoyed, to my own surprise no less, the Crucible in Destiny. Splatoon has to beat that, or at least offer something of similar entertainment value, but different enough to justify buying and playing both.
The fact, that so far, Nintendo has NOTHING to offer, in terms of one of the most popular genres on the planet, speaks volume about your theory of superior variety.
Cheers Ralek
EDIT: Seems like @BinaryFragger and @Hernandez beat me to the punch. I second their point, and took the liberty to elaborate "a bit" on it! ^^
@Bolt_Strike You say, that you know, that there is more to it, the next sentence though, you go back to arguing, that no, there is not more to it, that indeed, it is basically all just black and white.
It's black and white to the dudebros and the developers that pander to them, but not to the handful of people that have any sense.
I agree, that there is a Nintendo side and there is "the dudebro shooter side" ... but what you are missing in it's entirety is all the other sides there are. The Limbos and Shadows of the Colossus of this world for example. You are also missing the Sunset Overdrives of the world. It invalidates your line of argument, since you forgo large chunks of reality in regards to the actual state of the industry, you lament, in favour of an artifical two-sided view.
Also, why would it be moronic to want more of the thing you enjoy? People demand more Zelda, Metroid, Starfox, F-Zero, Advance Wars, etc. pp. all the time ... what's the difference here? Destiny is not COD, and people seem to like it alright. It is also a well-crafted game, promising plenty of fun, be it adventuring together with friends or shooting other people in the arena.
Those games actually do new things between games. CoD and the other shooters don't.
Last but not least, I take offense with your argument about variety. Your point that the only one who offers variety is Nintendo, doesn't ring true. Nintendo has it staples, be it Mario, MK, SSB or something else. So do other developers and platforms, since those IPs tend to pay the bills. Maybe you meant to say, that Nintendo is the only platforming offering something else than seemingly much despised "dudebro shooters" (what's up with that hatred anyways?^^) ... to that I say, what I said before: It ain't so. No Mans Sky. to name just a single remarkable example, is not a "dudebro shooter". Neither is Drive Club or Bloodborne.
Again, too few and far between. The other developers are pretty much 80-90% shooters, Nintendo doesn't just spam the same genre repetitively, sure they have a lot of platformers, but they also have RPGs, adventure games, a racing game, a fighting game, shooters. They've got all of the big ones, and it's a pretty fair mix.
There are whole genres Nintendo is basically missing, talk about adventures or simulations or RTS games or shooters (I hope Splatoon delivers here, it looks amazing sofar) ... where is the variety there? If you favour platforming, Nintendo has you covered, if you like (s)rpgs (and have a 3DS) they got you too. IF not, well, you might be out of luck.
Are you talking about Nintendo as a whole or the Wii U? Because if it's the Wii U, they do have a few gaps, but once the next batch of games comes and goes, they'll be fine (once we have the likes of Zelda, Smash Bros, and Splatoon). As far as Nintendo as a whole, like I said, they have most of their bases covered. They have RTS and shooters, that's Pikmin, Metroid, and Splatoon. They've got plenty of platformers (Mario, Donkey Kong, Kirby, and Yoshi). They've got adventure games (Zelda and Metroid). They've got fighting games (Smash Bros.). They've got RPGs (Pokemon, Paper Mario, and Mario & Luigi). What else do you want? Now I won't say they have something for every single genre on the planet, but most of what they're missing is really minor and wouldn't really help with variety that much.
I really don't like that you had to put me into a position where I once again had to point out, that Nintendo is not the saviour of virtue and creativity in the industry, the champion of joy and beauty.
When they're the only ones doing anything new and innovative, yeah they are.
I'D love for Splatoon to be the next Halo, when it comes to the quality and type of entertainment it offers, the competitive one that is, but sales-wise that is not gonna happen. But what do I care? If it is any good, I'll play it, and enjoy it, and I hope Nintendo makes a profit. If someone is turned of by the artstyle or the lack of story, or none-scifi setting, or whatever, that is their choice. They are entitled to it, Splatoon will not be the only great arena shooter vying for the attention of gamers around the world. It won't be the best choice for all and everyone. I really enjoyed, to my own surprise no less, the Crucible in Destiny. Splatoon has to beat that, or at least offer something of similar entertainment value, but different enough to justify buying and playing both.
The fact, that so far, Nintendo has NOTHING to offer, in terms of one of the most popular genres on the planet, speaks volume about your theory of superior variety.
Pity Nintendo puts so little value in Metroid, because that would definitely be more competitive with the likes of Halo or Splatoon. Still though, they're doing much better with variety than Microsoft and Sony are.
@SkywardLink: i believe you may be thinking of another forum, unless you'd like to point me in the direction of that particular discussion so that i can nuke it from orbit? to the best of my knowledge (and with Google's help), i cannot remember seeing such a discussion take place nor have i been able to find it myself.
The bottom line is that it's a fan theory with no solid basis in canon reality, and the assumption you are choosing to make from the support convo in question (i've seen it too, i know what happened) is not only a serious stretch, it's also vile and offensive. i may as well try to claim that the 'cake' Peach baked for Mario in SM64 was actually a code word between the two for something else entirely for all the truth behind either theory.
I thought it was this forum, because this is the only Nintendo forum I used, but they didn't state it quite like that. There was a page or so on the Fire Emblem thread iirc where someone asked what Tharja's A support was about and the reply was she drugged you. They refer to it as "taking advantage of your body" on the thread, so I figured it was okay to talk about it. I'm really, really sorry for all of this.
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As @ogo79 said, the SNS-RZ-USA is a prime giveaway that it's not a legit retail cart.
And yes, he is (usually) always right, and he is (almost) the sexiest gamer out there (not counting me) ;)
@Bolt_Strike A couple of things ...
"It's black and white to the dudebros and the developers that pander to them, but not to the handful of people that have any sense." There are still at least two parties to everything, even to 'black and white' - with "dudebros" (btw is this somehow meant to be condescending?), that leaves only you for the other side.
"Those games are too few and far between, though."
1) How do you figure that? Plenty of sports games out there for sure, plenty of indie games of all types, plenty of RPGs, western as well as japanese, plenty of fighting too, also strategy games, at least on PC, not to forget MMOs ... also, all kind of genre mixes going on.
2) If you consider anything not-"the dudebro shooter" "too few and far between" on Non-Nintendo platforms, it stands to reason, you would consider anything not platformer basically inexistent ON Nintendo platforms, esp. the WiiU of course.
"Those games actually do new things between games. CoD and the other shooters don't."
1) They are also still largely the same, and still staples of Nintendos line-up every generation around.
2) Other shooters do things differently, just as much so. The fact that you think they don't, leads me to believe that you base your argument largely on prejudice. Are you trying to tell me, that you could do 6-player, several hour long, MMO-style, co-operative PvE Raids in any Call of Duty(ish) game before? Please, do point that game out to me, I'd love to get into that once I'm done with Destiny.
"Again, too few and far between. The other developers are pretty much 80-90% shooters, Nintendo doesn't just spam the same genre repetitively, sure they have a lot of platformers, but they also have RPGs, adventure games, a racing game, a fighting game, shooters. They've got all of the big ones, and it's a pretty fair mix."
A (like one) racing game, A (like one) fighting game, shooterS (like several)? Only a "lot of platformers"? But, thousands of platforming, racing, fighting, strategy, simulation, adventuring, visual novel, rpg games on other platforms are "too few and far between"?
May I conclude that you simply decided to employ different sets of standards for different platforms? If not, I do not follow your reasoning here. It will not comment on your 89-90% claim btw, I know blatant hyperbole when I see it.
"Are you talking about Nintendo as a whole or the Wii U? Because if it's the Wii U, they do have a few gaps, but once the next batch of games comes and goes, they'll be fine (once we have the likes of Zelda, Smash Bros, and Splatoon). As far as Nintendo as a whole, like I said, they have most of their bases covered. They have RTS and shooters, that's Pikmin, Metroid, and Splatoon. They've got plenty of platformers (Mario, Donkey Kong, Kirby, and Yoshi). They've got adventure games (Zelda and Metroid). They've got fighting games (Smash Bros.). They've got RPGs (Pokemon, Paper Mario, and Mario & Luigi). What else do you want? Now I won't say they have something for every single genre on the planet, but most of what they're missing is really minor and wouldn't really help with variety that much."
Well, not they don't, they will or might have those. RTS like A RTS, like one, like Pikmin. There is no Metroid or Zelda game on the WiiU. Splatoon is one shooter, not shooterS, and it's - again - not even out yet, just like Super Smash Brothers. Where did all that spunky "Again, too few and far between" of yours go all of the sudden? What they have is actually very little, and quite a few genres are just complete blanks, and will be for some time, when it comes to Nintendo games. I think, in all fairness, this is hardly worth debating, since the lack of games, esp. besides platformers, has actually been the cause for quite some criticism and debate vis a vis the WiiU already. So, not to "most of what they're missing is really minor and wouldn't really help with variety that much." Actually make that one big-a** Nope!
"When they're the only ones doing anything new and innovative, yeah they are."
Again, how do you figure? What has Nintendo done lately, that was so terribly new and innovative, and how do you go about dismissing anything every other company has done recently. So, neither No Mans Sky (nor at least two-dozen intriguing new indies) nor Destiny or anything else strikes your fancy? - So what, that doesn't mean they were any less innovative than anything Nintendo has done. What was the last great software/gameplay innovation Nintendo pushed actually, since we are on the topic? Honestly, Splatoon is the most exciting thing I've seen coming out of Nintendo in quite some time. I hope it will deliver on it's promise. Amiibo is nothing new, a open-range Adventure/RPG as proposed for Zelda is neither, Project S.T.E.A.M. looks interesting though.
"Pity Nintendo puts so little value in Metroid, because that would definitely be more competitive with the likes of Halo or Splatoon. Still though, they're doing much better with variety than Microsoft and Sony are."
Just because I'm not sure you read me correctly, but by competitive, I meant competitive play, Player vs Player online. Something Nintendo is pretty much eschewing altogether, with a few games like MK8 being notable exceptions, shooter wise, I don't think there is anything right now, nothing by Nintendo itself anyways. But yeah, if they had more in the way of that, in the market they would be more competitive. I couldn't agree more, but then, what would be arguing about, if Nintendo would be entering "the dudebro shooter" segment, too ... Et tu, Nintu? ^^ Again though, I wonder, where you come up with the superior variety on Nintendos side, please, tell me which genre is Microsoft and Sony missing, or if not missing altogether, which (above average) 'worthy' genre is so comparatively strong with Nintendo, that it actually makes Microsoft and Sony look bad? If your answer is anything else than platforming, I'm looking forward to your argument.
Maybe @midnafanboy was right, and we got ourselves into a heated debate after all? ^^ Let's keep it civil though!
In terms of what Nintendo does do they are just as predictable as the competition. (With the odd exception where they try and do the best they possibly can - 3D World / Galaxy).
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Topic: Nintendo is kiddy, yet most of their franchises are very neutral
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