Topic: Should games have cryptic puzzles even now?

I feel like games like Zelda really don't need cryptic stuff that will simply make the gamer give up because it just makes the player feel like its impossible. If they have to put Cryptic stuff, atleast make the exploration process less tedious like Metroid. But La Mulana both 1 and 2 just feels so cryptic for wrong reasons!

What recent Zelda game even had cryptic puzzles?

Majora's Mask 3D?

What's cryptic about that one?

Some games have nearly impossible levels of difficulty to challenge the player, so why should puzzles be left out of this?

That statement bothers me. Every decently designed game that has a puzzle will have a solution to it, unless the puzzle is not meant to be solved (in which case, there's another way to progress). It's not impossible. You just need a different perspective.

I agree with you there. But for the most part, some puzzles like in the case of Majora's Mask where there are puzzles to solve and you're given a limited time to think about it. Its not like Professor Layton where they give you time to think nor does it feel so repetitive like in La Mulana where you have to explore that particular area when you want to examine that puzzle.

Wouldn't be surprised if @the_shpydar stopped by here soon.

If they stop making tricky Zelda dungeon puzzles, I'll stop playing Zelda games.

Zelda is basically a puzzle game at heart ffs.

What puzzle were you stuck on in Majora's Mask? I completed both the main game and got all the masks without a walkthrough.

The only Zelda game that is cryptic is Zelda II, and except for the open world structure of the original Legend of Zelda, every other Zelda has been pretty straight-forward, both in overall gameplay and puzzles.

Get over yourself. Not every game needs to appeal to you directly, and not every gamer has the same tastes as you.
I love games with tricky puzzles. That doesn't mean every game needs to be tricky... but some should be.

Tricky puzzle-based games like La Mulana or Fez have strong followings despite both being on the slightly absurd side of what puzzles can be. Suggesting that an already mass-market friendly game like Zelda needs to be dumbed down further is embarrassing - especially in a world where the internet makes any answer just a couple of clicks away.

Well, I'll say one thing: this got me to look up the definition of "cryptic", and at least in reference to a puzzle, it doesn't necessarily have to be a negative thing. It can mean "ambiguous or unclear" or "one where the answers are not readily apparent", and you want a puzzle to require some amount of figuring. However, it can also be used to describe something where the answers aren't all there - "unclear in it's brevity", as Merriam-Webster put it. A "cryptic messege" would usually be one that's short and unclear: "light the fires that glow within", for example. You need more information for that to make sense. I know I always heard the term used to describe something where "obscure" (which specifically means something where it would be "difficult or impossible to know completely and with certainty") might also be a fitting synonym, which it still is, but cryptic is more flexible and can also be used to describe situations where the pieces are all there, you just have to put them together, so to speak.

So my question is: Do you mean "puzzles that require a lot of thinking to figure out", or do you mean "something that is next to impossible to figure out"? I'm actually leaning towards the former with the examples you've given, to be quite honest.

I feel over the years designers have become better at giving smart hints as to what to do to solve a puzzle or overcome an obstacle, and the Zelda series is a perfect example of this. Whenever I play older games in the franchise, this becomes apparent (the Kafei & Anju quest on Majora's Mask, for example, can be a head scratcher at times), but frankly it doesn't really bother me.

Me too. I thought puzzles were the main challenge in Zelda games. A Zelda game without puzzling dungeons isn't a Zelda game, that's why there are dungeons.

I feel they've been getting too obvious with their hints lately. Though, this could just be because I'm a veteran player.

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I miss when video games were about perseverance. People tell me it's because of this older demographic not having as much free time; but I've got school and work to juggle too! If I boot up the game and still haven't figured out where I'm stuck in my short play session, I just try again next time! Maybe it'll be different when I have kids?

I've found that Zelda's puzzles have become more straight forward with each new installment, and I'm slightly disappointed by that. Being cryptic isn't exactly a bad thing. Myst is a good example of this. I like it when a game makes me think because it's kind of rewarding when you finally figure it out. If I can't figure it out on my own after X amount of time, I'll consult an online guide. If you don't like puzzles, you shouldn't be playing puzzle-heavy games.

The Winter Palace level in Dragon Age Inquisition on the other hand is a recent example of cryptic and frustrating to a fault. It was downright cumbersome. By the time I finished playing it, I didn't care who got the throne, I just wanted to leave.

@CanisWolfred I'm not talking about Puzzles that require huge level of thought being bad and I agree that if there are not dungeons without puzzles, there's no Zelda. I'm talking about "Something that is next to impossible figuring out". Like in La-Mulana for example where some sections of the game trick you and making you rage because of how cryptic majority of those puzzles are. Zelda's level of crypticness is acceptable because its nowhere as tedious as La-Mulana and there are only certain times that they do feel cryptic and even then, its not too much. And the process of going through the cryptic passages where it should just be balanced with little to no enemies lurking around or unneeded long distances that just feel frustrating.

@Artwark, Now that is a different story. If you're talking about puzzles we've seen in Zelda II, where they give ZERO hint on what the next course of action is, then that is a bad thing. The only thing I can think of that is like that in Majora's Mask is how in Snowhead you have to punch the central pillar as a Goron when it is up.

If you were stuck on something, then when you finally figure it out (or look it up), you should see the reason why you should have known it. If you discover it, and your reaction was "well, how could I have known something like that?," then that is a bad thing.

Some games are more cryptic than others.

Some gamers enjoy cryptic games more than others.

Is your argument that La-Mulana should appeal to you instead of them? Play the games you enjoy. If you like the more meditative pace of Layton games, then I have good news for you: there are Layton games.

Trust me, when your free time gets scrunched even further, and that "next time" could be next week, challenge becomes a lot less appealing.