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Topic: The Nintendo Switch Thread

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Octane

@YummyHappyPills It's the opposite in Japan, Nintendo owns more than 50% of the market share over there, spread across the Switch and 3DS, yet I don't hear anyone complain about that. It's an issue, I agree, but what can you do about it?

@JaxonH The Vita isn't dead in Japan. It's just that you didn't hear about new Vita releases when the Switch wasn't a thing, because it wasn't interesting. The system has gotten a steady stream of releases in Japan this entire year. I compared the last four months (September through December) of 2017 and 2016, and whilst the Vita got 47 retail releases this year during that period, it actually got 72 games last year, during the same four-month period. So I'd say there's a decline in game releases instead.

And in case you're wondering, the Vita has already several dozen upcoming releases lined up for 2018, like 50 games at least. So don't expect the Vita announcements to end anytime soon.

Octane

Ralizah

I doubt Sony is moneyhatting Catherine. Atlus has always had weird standards for which series end up on which platforms.

Also, Atlus has a habit of supporting older platforms. Thus why they still have so many 3DS games in production (a new EO, Persona Q2, Strange Journey Redux, and Radiant Historia: Perfect Chronology, so far).

Fight_Teza_Fight wrote:

Or will it be when Persona 5 gets a re-release for both PS4 and Vita and not the Switch.

Unless Sony releases a new handheld, the only way you're going to be playing Persona 5 on Vita is via remote play. The game is simply too demanding for the platform.

Assuming, of course, they don't specifically design a downgraded version of it like they did with P3P on PSP.

Edited on by Ralizah

Switch FC: SW-2726-5961-1794

Octane

JaxonH wrote:

That's exactly how they operate too.

This is why I really can't stand them as a company. Like their products, really don't like them. You never see Nintendo resorting to such tactics. Even MS only does so on occasion.

But if they think a few digital downloads of Secret of Mana and Catherine are enough to stop the Switch juggernaut... They're wasting their money.

And that's why they're not doing it...

I agree with @Fight_Teza_Fight, the conspiracy BS is getting a bit out of hand. There's no evidence for all of this. The Vita getting games isn't an anomaly, it happens every other week, if not every week.

I hoped it was a joke at first, a meme, whatever, but I really hope people don't think Sony is paying SE for something trivial like a Secret of Mana remake, because like you said, that won't make a difference, at all.

Octane

DarthNocturnal

Escapists 2 coming to Switch on January 11th... on the off chance it wasn't mentioned here already.

"Sometimes, I just don't understand human behavior" - C-3P0

Knuckles-Fajita

@Octane Regarding Japan, I actually have the same mindset. Someone needs to step in. The problem there is Sony most likely won't cater to that market with a new Vita, so intervention is required. I'm all for it, it will boost Japan's gaming industry even further if they have equal footing.

At the same time, that monopoly from Nintendo will collapse when the 3DS is dropped so...it'll likely work out in the end when Nintendo moves from two systems to one. So in that respect intervention may not be necessary depending on when that event happens.

At the same time, I firmly believe in intervention in this case, for the EU market to stop the dominance of PlayStation and the already evident anti-consumer practices, and the exact same goes for Japan and Nintendo.

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Knuckles-Fajita

@DarthNocturnal Oh cool, on my birthday while I recover from surgery. That settles my plans for the day then

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StuTwo

@YummyHappyPills yep. They do lots of subtle but very aggressive things to maintain their position. Most of which are invisible to the average consumer.

Of course there only being one dedicated retailer and them not in an especially secure situation limits the ways in which they can distort the market.

@JaxonH I think it’s a demonstration of Sony’s power with publishers. They can threaten them with a lack of access to PS4 or poorer visibility if games aren’t also ported to Vita.

Of course there are still millions of Vita owners so it could certainly be viable to release games like this.

The bigger question is to what extent are Sony using preferential access to PS4 as a big stick to prevent ports to Switch. And will that stick cease to be big enough when Nintendo pass 20-30 million units?

StuTwo

Switch Friend Code: SW-6338-4534-2507

Fight_Teza_Fight

@Ralizah Considerably downgraded PS3 port with some loading screens thrown in. They could also make a P5-lite portable experience that could be a sold alongside P5 enhanced for PS4 to get the full P5 experience.
I don't know. Like i said the Vita breadcrumbs are all over P5. something bigger than the rhythm games are in the works.
Anyways Switch...

@Octane It's crazy really. Have Sony paid for exclusivity to certain games. Sure. So has every other platform holder.
They are not going after these small niche games that hardly move the needle. Catherine did ~1million across an install base of 160million+ (360+PS3).
As seen by recent trends they are much more likely to use the money to attain the marketing rights to the big AAA multiplats. That's what moves the needle.

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JaxonH

@Octane @Fight_Teza_Fight
Regardless of of whether they are or aren't, you're WAY to eager to defend their integrity. Especially when paying for exclusives is and skipping other platforms is not some foreign tactic to Sony.

And we are here to discuss. When something happens, I'm going to discuss my take on it. If this offends you, maybe forums aren't the place for you. Or maybe it's just the fact it's Sony, who no one can speak ill of.

You can believe what you want, but don't sass me over what I believe. Please. Feel free to disagree, but the hostility is unwarranted. You don't need ever living proof of everything that happens to connect the dots.

But even you can't deny the oddity of it all. Vita may not be completely dead in Japan, but whens the last time it even remotely got a more mainstream release? These are far more mainstream that your typical Tokyo Xanadu anime crap.

And it's a reasonable conclusion. Sony doesn't want to lose ground in the Japanese market. You think they're gonna roll over and take It? Then I don't think you truly understand business. Getting 5 smaller, reasonably appealing titles can do far more for momentum than one super popular game with nothing else.

If I were Sony, and I were trying to keep my handheld alive to ward off as much of the Switch as possible, Id choose a handful of games like this to convince people it has a steady stream of releases you can't get on other handhelds. That does FAR more than spending all their money one one big release that comes out of nowhere, with nothing else all year long. And this includes crossbuy too? You mean to tell me they saw it a better investment to scale down and develop for VITA, handing out free copies, than Switch which could run as is and demand full price for every copy, on a thriving install base that will be just as large by release? Come on...

So please spare me the conspiracy theorist accusations.

Either way, my beef isn't really with Sony but 3rd parties. Because even of they did secure a handful of releases on PS4/Vita, it's only a handful. I'm more concerned with the other 99% that have no excuse.

Edited on by JaxonH

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Octane

@JaxonH Don't worry, it doesn't offend me.

What's mainsteam though? When I look at the list of Vita games, everything I see is niche, at least in my point of view. I have no idea what's popular in Japan or not. Ys Origin? Danganronpa? Steins:Gate? And I only know of these games because they are localised. I would certainly put Catherine below all of those. I'd say it's a pretty niche game...

Octane

kobashi100

Hate this Sony conspiracy BS that gets posted every time a game is announced for Sony platforms and nothing else.

I actually can't believe people would suggest that Sony are paying for a game like Catherine not to be released on switch. Come one people, you are reaching massively. Catherine is a niche game, doesn't sell consoles but Sony are gonna go all out to keep it from nintendo. Yeah okay, now let's get back to reality.

Switch isn't gonna get every game just like Sony and MS don't get every multi platform game.

JaxonH wrote:

Oh, Catherine coming to PS4 and ******* VITA.

This is case and point. The platform has been dead for some time. Now all of a sudden you see games being ported to it from Square Enix, Atlus, and God knows who else...?

There's no logic to it. None. Either Sony's paying for these versions in a desperate attempt at a hail Mary to keep people from migrating to Switch, or all these developers just suddenly, out of nowhere, decided it was a viable, thriving platform but not the Switch (the platform everyone wants games on).

I mean, even 3DS is questionable at this point. But this is just insulting.

You are just speculating with no evidence at all.

Edited on by kobashi100

kobashi100

Fight_Teza_Fight

JaxonH wrote:

Oh, Catherine coming to PS4 and ******* VITA.

@JaxonH Seems like you were the one that introduced hostility into the thread.
I don't care for Sony's integrity. They provide a product that I like, so I buy it and support it.
I hate the way Nintendo nickles and dimes their consumers with overpriced accessories and ludicrous game pricing, but they provide a product that I like, so I buy it and support it.
We are nothing, but numbers to these corporations.

My 'issue' with your opinion was that your post despite being critical of Atlus/Sega/Sony for a lack of logic, ironically lacks logic.
Like I said before as I don't care to regurgitate my own post, money-hatting isn't the only reason a game is exclusive.

Is your issue with Second/Third party exclusives in general, or is it just Sony/PlayStation exclusives?

Anyways, you carry on believing what you will.

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If we could perceive time for what it really was,
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JaxonH

@kobashi100
You can be ignorant if you choose.

You look at indies, what do they always say... we can't afford to do exclusives. Multiplatform is a MUST. Then you see Guacamelee 2 as a PS4 exclusive.

I hate it when people refuse to think critically. As if the mere notion of a cutthroat multi billion dollar corporation paying for games to come to their platform over others is some tin foil hat concept, despite them openly doing so time and time again.

@Octane
Those games are more niche than Catherine, for sure. And it's not just Catherine. It's Secret of Mana too. It's this potential FF Collection. I'm betting there's more too. This is just the beginning, I'm sure.

And it's not that Vita can't be a viable platform, it's that... how can you, at this juncture, seem Vita viable but not Switch. And if it were just one publisher... ok. But from multiple big name publishers? All in a relatively short time span? That deserves, at the very least, to warrant the question to be asked.

@StuTwo
They do have alot of power over developers and publishers. Too much, if you ask me. PS4 has become so profitable for 3rd parties that Sony can leverage the platform in exchange for favors.

All I know is, the higher the install base grows, the more expensive it will become to pay for exclusives or pay for antiexclusives (specifically skipping one platform). Most of this stuff we'll never have any sure proof of because it's done behind closed doors. But we can see the effects. Just like the wind. You don't have to see it to observe it blowing the leaves of the trees.

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Bunkerneath

Bayonetta 1&2 normal and special edition for switch available to pre order on Nintendo store uk

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IceClimbers

While I don't agree with the Sony conspiracy thing either, wouldn't it actually make more sense to go after these niche to mid-tier games when it comes to countering Switch? Put it this way, how many of the big AAA releases is the Switch gonna get anyways? Not a lot of them. The niche and mid-tier games though? Those'll make up a huge portion of the Switch's 3rd party support. So while moneyhatting one or two of these games wouldn't make much sense, doing it for a bunch of them? That'll make a huge dent on the Switch.

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Ralizah

http://www.siliconera.com/2017/12/19/valkyria-chronicles-4-de...

Kind of cool: the protagonist of VC1 will be featured in one of VC4's DLC missions.

I'm playing Valkyria Chronicles right now, and, I have to tell you, it's fantastic. The only thing it (desperately) needs is a FF button, like in Code Name: S.T.E.A.M., so that you don't have to spend three minutes watching enemy units shuffle around every other turn. But in every other way, it's an absolute gem.

I'm so happy we're getting this on Switch!

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kobashi100

@JaxonH and what about runner 3. Are you gonna blast Nintendo for paying for exclusivity for that game..

I have no doubt Sony, nintendo and MS pay for exclusivity for certain software and I don't have a problem with it but no I am not buying this theory that Sony paid for Catherine. That's pie in the sky stuff!

kobashi100

JaxonH

@Fight_Teza_Fight
And I take no issue with your problems with Nintendo. Personally I don't think an extra five or ten bucks is that big of a deal when Sony and Microsoft were the first ones to raise the price by 5 or 10 bucks when the generation started, but if that angers you, then by all means... I respect it.

But my post wasn't hostile toward any person here, and I don't think it lacked logic. Observing anomalies and connecting the dots is thinking critically, and an intelligent person doesn't need everything spelled out for them to form a conclusion about what's going on.

I do take issue with Sony's tactics. I've always found them to be a scummy company that will do anything to sabotage their competition in any way possible. But that doesn't really angers me because I've always known about that. I've observed these tactics for years and years and years. Really I think my frustration comes from third parties in particular, some because they go along with propositions from rival companies to shirk Switch, but most of them simply because they refuse to believe the platform can be profitable for them despite how well it's doing.

And it just seems to come from all sides. Sony working against Switch. Third parties working against Switch... even Nintendo themselves are working against Switch by leaving the system out of date with their online and voice chat and VC. And that's frustrating because this is the first system that I've truly loved to the extent that I do. And it has nothing to do with who made the system it's just a really awesome system. I really enjoyed Wii U, but I never got bent out of shape over 3rd parties because A the system just wasn't that appealing and I personally would rather play them on PS4, at that time, and B it was failing horribly so they had good reason to avoid it. As a result, Sony wasn't really going out of their way to see it's demise.

But for the first time in is long as I can remember I have the perfect platform in my hands... everyone loves it, everyone wants games on it and it seems like the entire industry is set on seeing to it that that doesn't happen.

NOW PLAYING
NS: Y'S VIII, Octopath Traveller, Shining Resonance Refrain, Captain Toad, Hollow Knight, Wolfenstein 2
N3DS:
PS4pro:
PSVR:
Vita:
X1X:
PC/Rift:
GPD Win 2: Dragon Age Origins, Fire Emblem Path of Radiance

Jesus is Lord.

My Nintendo: JaxonH

JaxonH

@kobashi100
Look, I don't know if they paid for Catherine or not. All I know is the trend I see.

And trends are what matter. If there was a clear trend of Nintendo paying to keep games off rival platforms, then yes. But we both know that's not the case. And it's likely Runner 3 was a developer decision or just temporary, cause you know dang well Nintendo doesn't pay for exclusives unless they're funding the game, and they only fund games that no one else wants to back, or games they specifically want made from the ground up.

Edited on by JaxonH

NOW PLAYING
NS: Y'S VIII, Octopath Traveller, Shining Resonance Refrain, Captain Toad, Hollow Knight, Wolfenstein 2
N3DS:
PS4pro:
PSVR:
Vita:
X1X:
PC/Rift:
GPD Win 2: Dragon Age Origins, Fire Emblem Path of Radiance

Jesus is Lord.

My Nintendo: JaxonH

Octane

Bomberman, Octopath Traveler, Fast RMX, Runner3, De Mambo, Kamiko, Golf Story, etc... exclusives aren't... exclusive to the PS4 or Vita. Stuff like that happens all the time.

Octane

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