Topic: Your Guess as to this year's surprise E3 Wii U Announcement(s)

I just have to completely disagree. I kinda liked the GCN, but I love yhe Pro Controller.

I thought the gamecube controller was great for 2001-2006, but it is a bit loud. Just try to do a spontaneous spin attack in The Wind Waker or Twilight Princess and the loudest part isn't the in-game sound effect. Not to mention the triggers are loud and felt... kinda loose?

I think the 3DS design could be improved to make it less rectangular and more ergonomic. The same goes with the gamecube controller. I'd love to see Nintendo's next console have a much improved version of the gamecube controller. Maybe a little bit bigger for adult hands.

The GameCube controller is the greatest there ever was for sure. Everything about that control was perfect and I think going forward a revised edition would be great for NX I don't know what they have planned and maybe a conventional controller won't be needed but if it is definitely GameCube controller 2.0.

No more DK please. It's all they've been working on for the past 7ish years, and they haven't done much with the series. Retro's probably either working on Metroid or a different IP. Hopefully the former.

Hopefully the latter. Give Metroid to someone fresh and let Retro do whatever they want.

I would prefer the later as well (But I would take more DK over Metroid).

Not sure there has ever been a time when Metroid has outsold DK (Maybe Prime vs Jungle Beat or something but that is pushing it).

Just for the sake of reference, Metroid Prime is the highest-selling Metroid game with 2.8 mil in total sales. The DK games that beat it in sales are Donkey Kong Country (9.3 mil), Donkey Kong Country Returns (6.4 mil), Donkey Kong 64 (5.3 mil), Donkey Kong Country 2: Diddy's Kong Quest (5.2 mil), Donkey Kong Land for the Gameboy (3.9 mil), Donkey Kong Country 3: Dixie Kong's Double Trouble! (3.5 mil), and Donkey Kong for the Gameboy (3.1 mil). If you think in terms of sales vs the install base, Tropical Freeze also did better than Metroid Prime, but in return, Returns, DKC3, and both GB games did worse.

I was thinking of just simple comparison.

Metroid games on a given system against DK games on a given system.

(The comparison between Prime 3 / Trilogy and Returns gives me the impression if there was one on the Gamecube it would have outside Prime but obviously just conjecture (But supported by every other instance)).

NES: Metroid (2.73 mil) vs. Donkey Kong Classics (1.56 mil)
GB: Metroid II: Return of Samus (1.76 mil) vs. Donkey Kong Land (3.91 mil)
SNES: Super Metroid (1.42 mil) vs. Donkey Kong Country (9.30 mil)
N64: — (-- mil) vs. Donkey Kong 64 (5.27 mil)
GBA: Metroid Fusion (1.68 mil) vs. Donkey Kong Country (2.04 mil)
GCN: Metroid Prime (2.82 mil) vs. Donkey Kong Jungle Beat (1.34 mil)
DS: Metroid Prime Hunters (0.76 mil) vs. Mario vs. Donkey Kong: Mini-Land Mayhem (2.67 mil) (Donkey Kong Jungle Climber at 0.54 mil, if MvDK doesn't count)
Wii: Metroid Prime 3: Corruption (1.79 mil) vs. Donkey Kong Country Returns (6.35 mil)

... Sorry, I get bored easily.

IMO the Pro Controller, like the 360 controller, is very okay. It's comfortable enough and it's functional, but in most aspects I'd rather see something different.

I'd say the Pro Controller is better than the GCN controller, unless you are playing Smash. If you're playing Smash, then GCN Controller Master Race all the way. Any other game and I'd honestly prefer the Pro Controller. It has the extra shoulder button and a D-Pad that doesn't suck.

One thing's for sure though, whatever controller Nintendo uses for the NX or whatever the Wii U's successor is, it better use the same batteries as the Pro Controller. That 80 hour battery life is amazing.

Yeah, the genius of Mario is the fact that the game uses so few buttons. That's part of what makes the games controls so tight and intuitive. Y is run/grab/fireball and B is jump. That's it. Then there are combinations of them like hold and then tap Y while dropping the middle of your thumb on b. Or holding down to run upto and grab an item before letting go. Genius and all immediately obvious once you learn what those two buttons are for.

Compare that to a more modern game like GTA....

It's no wonder they have to remind you every five seconds what button does what

Eh, now's not the right time to hand over Metroid to someone fresh. Metroid's already been screwed up once, and with the low install base Nintendo isn't in a good position to be taking risks with a fresh developer. Metroid should be brought back, but it should be given to a proven developer that can handle it. And I don't think anyone except Retro really can.

And as much as I'd love a new IP or for them to revive a forgotten IP, I think the lineup is already very diverse at this point and they have enough trouble balancing their current IPs. Unless it's in a genre that Nintendo doesn't do, but there's too few of them at this point.

I don't really care one way or the other, control setups rarely bother me. In fact, the collectathon Mario games actually had a pretty complex control scheme with a ton of moves mapped to several different buttons

No, actually, now's the PERFECT time for them to be experimenting. They have nothing to lose and everything to gain. And... I'm sorry, did you really just say Retro is the only company that can? Ok, they're the only company to make a 3D Metroid that didn't get serious amounts of hate, but aside from Other M, they're the only company to make a 3D Metroid period. (At least a serious one.) Are you just going to toss the entire 2D Metroid series aside and say it doesn't mean anything? If Retro can work the magic again and bring back another beloved IP in another amazing light, they'll pretty well cover up the salt for anyone that might've otherwise thought they got burned by the Wii U. If a 3D Metroid comes out and it's amazing, that'll also help. If they can manage to do both, Nintendo should give it a shot.

Also, you think the line-up is very diverse? Really? Cause I could've sworn you were JUST complaining about how diverse the line-up WASN'T. How you think the games (you didn't play) on the Wii U are just too much like their predecessors and how you wanted something else (like Metroid) to help diversify the system. Pretty much sounds like you just want another Metroid (which isn't a bad thing) and you're just trying to justify it in any way you can think up (which /is/ a bad thing.)

Seriously, Metroid's coming. You can keep your hat on. I'm just annoyed that people keep trying to make Retro go back to it when they can do so many other BETTER things. IMO: Brand New IP > Revival of Old IP > 3D DK Collectathon > 3D Metroid FPS as far as what Retro could be doing.

Well, they've made Tropical Freeze, which is in my opinion one of the best sidescrolling platformers since the 90's, so I'd definitely wouldn't say they haven't done much with the series.

Either way, what I'm suggesting is a new take on open-world 3D Donkey Kong, and I'm sure they'd have a lot of ideas to make such a game truly great.

I'd be excited about a new Metroid, sure, but the Donkey Kong series has historically given me games that I've enjoyed a lot more.

They do have something to lose, actually, money and fan support.

The Wii U's library isn't. Nintendo's library as a whole is. My point is that there's already a ton of current IPs that Nintendo can bring to the table to make the Wii U's library diverse and for the most part they don't need to dip into older IPs or create new ones.

3D Metroid > New IP > Old IP > anything DK

They haven't really done much to further the series though, in fact both of their games are a step backwards for the series in some areas (no solo Kongs except in co-op, no animal buddies except Rambi, Returns doesn't have swimming).

I don't think they'll do an open world game like DK64, they're probably going to do something more in the style of 3D Land/3D World. And I'd rather they wait until next gen to do that.

Shortening most of this to a list:
-If they stuck around through Other M, taking a risk isn't going to make them run screaming. Besides, Other M had good gameplay. It's only the story that turned people off, and only because Samus was the main character. If it had been random Blondie McBadass, I really doubt anyone would've made a fuss (aside from feminists, but that's a different argument altogether.)
-So what you're saying is that they don't need to dip into old IP, so anything that hasn't come to the Wii U, yet just shouldn't? I get what you mean, but you should realize how ridiculous your own argument sounds. "Don't bring back this thing because you don't need to bring back anything. Bring this other thing back, instead."
-So you'd rather have a rehash (and don't say it wouldn't be, because if you think Tropical Freeze is a rehash, then anything that follows the core mechanics of its franchise is a rehash to you) than an all new game with all new characters and all new stories to tell in all new settings that could have all new mechanics? I get that you want another Prime, but even you have to realize that Metroid isn't going to be the system savior on its own. If Smash, Mario, Kart, and DK all failed, Metroid doesn't really have much ground to stand on, either.
-Next comment wasn't mine, but you credited it to me. Just so ya know. Also, once again, you really don't have a valid argument, if you haven't even played the game. Besides that, I wouldn't call one thing a "step down." Only being able to play as DK focuses the game a lot. It also makes losing a partner a much bigger punishment, which is good. And for missing out on swimming in the first game, they improved swimming MASSIVELY from the SNES games in TF. Rambi being the only Animal buddy would suck more, if I felt like it really took anything away from the experience, but like with playing as DK only, it seems to focus the experience more.
-See, the reason 3D World worked was because Mario's mechanics lended itself so well to that style. DK doesn't really have that same advantage, so making a 3D World with DK characters would be a waste of the series' unique traits.

Fine, anything that died before the Wii. Now it's not a double standard.

No, saying TF is a rehash means I don't want to see a game where the characters are doing the same thing over and over again. You don't do the same thing over and over again in the 3D Metroid games (although the 2D games do suffer from this, there hasn't been a significant leap in gameplay since Super).

I don't care if it's a system seller. I care that it takes advantage of the hardware. And Metroid does that much better than DK or any existing IP for that matter.

None of the things I'm discussing need to be played to be understood or argued, these are all concept level problems.

The game doesn't need a narrower focus. It needs the opposite really, the game needs to expand on its mechanics to freshen things up.

Not really, when different characters are useful in different situations. If you need to platform you might miss your partner character, but if you just need to take out enemies you won't really miss it. And if you lost Donkey, the reverse would be true. Honestly that's not something worth limiting, DK games are hard enough already.

Again, the game doesn't need a more focused experience. And doing so limits their creativity, there were several good levels in the Classic Trilogy that used the Animal Buddies' mechanics pretty well.

Um what? DK's mechanics would translate into a linear 3D platformer easily, the core mechanics translated into DK 64 well enough, beyond that it's just a matter of narrowing the level design.

@Bolt_Strike Your comment just proves (yet again) that Platformers aren't your thing. Making it varied and making it focused aren't mutually exclusive. You can have both. They did a wonderful job of that in 3D World and Tropical Freeze, actually. And yeah, actually, when it comes to platformers, the more focused the game is, the better.

Also, DK64 was far from a linear Platformer. It doesn't prove at all that DK's mechanics should be narrowed down into a 3D World setting, and besides that, isn't that the exact sort of thing you're complaining about? Why would you want them to take 3D World and stick DK characters in it, instead, then sell that as a new game? Instead of a game where you can explore a massive world with all sorts of challenging platforming action to get you through.

Further, hard and unfair are also two different things. Tropical Freeze is one of the first DKC games to be fair while still being ball-bustingly difficult. It presents the player with a challenge without having to be like "oh, and you can only take one hit the whole time" or without making mechanics that force the player to move faster than they should have to or without forcing players to master two completely separate almost entirely unrelated arcade games just to reach the final boss or... yeah, I think you get my point. TF is as hard as any other DK, but unlike other DKs, it's also extremely fair.

Besides THAT, it's got easily the best music and art direction in the entire franchise, to date. The background is absolutely amazing, beating out DKCR with ease and blowing the pre-rendered shenanigans of the DKC SNES games completely out of the water. On top of that, it does more for replayability than any other game in the franchise (though DKCR comes close) with Hard Mode and Time Attack runs, which also come with their own leaderboards complete with videos to help you learn tricks to handle levels faster. This may seem small time, to you, but this is a big, BIG deal. It actually gives casual players an incentive to try something a little more difficult.

What you seem to not realize is that the newer DKC games do make things quite a bit different and a WHOLE lot better than the original games. DKCR screwed up in a few ways (one-hit kills are freaking bull), but TF did a lot to fix what DKCR did wrong and THEN SOME.

Also (again), I don't know what you're talking about "not always doing the same thing." Last I checked, Prime consisted of "enter a room, explore the room, potentially kill things lurking in the room, potentially solve a puzzle in the room, find a door and go through it. Rinse and repeat. Any game can be boiled down to a routine. To the people that actually play those kinds of games, those routines don't really exist, or they're not really the focus, rather. Platformers put an incredible amount of focus on what you, the player, are doing in every single frame. Action-Adventures tend to focus more on what the character does and tries to vary that up, but no matter which way you go, you'll catch a groove and create a routine. Difference is you want to explore everything you see. I just want to overcome the challenge. This is why there are different kinds of games, and this is also why the Wii U doesn't need more side-scrollers. That doesn't, however, mean that we need to waste Retro's talent on doing something they've already done when they could be doing something new and exciting.

As a side note, I'm still getting this strong feeling you just hate DK because it wasn't Metroid.

The focus is what makes the platformers boring and rehashy though. Changing up the levels does nothing to make the gameplay feel fresh, the mechanics themselves have to change.

True, an open world platformer would be better for variety's sake, but a 3D platformer that actually introduces new gameplay mechanics is just as good. I can enjoy both linear platformers and non-linear platformers provided they both introduce new gameplay mechanics to change things up. The problem is that they usually don't in the former.

I've played DKCR and it barely felt different from the Classics.

Too bad TF is still playing catch up with the Classics while offering too little on its own merits. It's little more than a level pack sequel.

I don't look at the mechanics so broadly though. Again, I look at the game from an action level, what the player and the character can do, what kinds of moves or abilities they can perform, and what the player needs to do to complete tasks. For whatever reason the linear platformers do not change this up, every character has the same abilities from game to game, new character abilities are becoming less and less distinguishable or useful (Mario characters typically only have differences in stats, like how high they can jump or how fast they can run, DK characters have unique abilities that are rarely utilized in the level design), and you end up performing the same actions from game to game. For whatever reason, linear platformers rarely or never change this, whereas other genres, even collectathon platformers, are more open to experimentation. Metroid may have the same routine from game to game, but the abilities Samus can perform are actually different from game to game and that creates a different experience. This is the area where linear platformers are getting boring, they refuse to expand on what the characters can do or bring in any new characters or mechanics that put a twist on what you do in the game and as a result the games feel repetitive and stagnant.

Doing something new with an IP they've done before is new and exciting in its own right. It's sure better than doing something old with an existing IP. If anything is a waste of Retro's talent it's Tropical Freeze, they can be way more creative than that.

For the last time I don't hate DK because it's not Metroid. In fact I played the Classics and enjoyed them to some degree. I hate DK because it's going nowhere with the gameplay and was ultimately a waste of Retro's time.