Yeah, this is really the first I've heard of someone actually having trouble with a Mario game because of the control scheme, but at the end of the day, this method does work beter for the design of the game its in. You may not like it, but it does work extremely well in this context.
No, it is in fact not beter than any sort of reasonable rebind-able buttons. I can't even count the myriad of times that I've had my fingers slip or cramp because my thumb had to both hold down B and tap A using either the DS, 3DS, or wiimote. They're just too close on a diamond-shaped 4 button array to be comfortable. I could play any 2D Mario platformer way better using the triggers as the B buttons functions. What is your hang up with options menus? You're being so defensive.
Yeah, this is really the first I've heard of someone actually having trouble with a Mario game because of the control scheme, but at the end of the day, this method does work beter for the design of the game its in. You may not like it, but it does work extremely well in this context.
No, it is in fact not beter than any sort of reasonable rebind-able buttons. I can't even count the myriad of times that I've had my fingers slip or cramp because my thumb had to both hold down B and tap A using either the DS, 3DS, or wiimote. They're just too close on a diamond-shaped 4 button array to be comfortable. I could play any 2D Mario platformer way better using the triggers as the B buttons functions. What is your hang up with options menus? You're being so defensive.
I say something that constitutes the idea that it doesn't work the same for everybody, and then you come in, acting like my statement is wrong and your statement is right because of something that pertains specifically to you. Still not sure why people keep saying you're claiming your opinions as facts?
And if you were actually paying attention and not just flinging around random accusations, you'd have noticed that I suggested rebindable buttons previously in this very same conversation. Thus far, unrandomsam is the only person to say that might be a problem, and I haven't seen him explain that stance.
Rebindable buttons should be mandatory nowadays. If you like the controls you can leave it alone, but many people have their own control preferences or have limitations that prevent them using the default settings.
Still not sure why people keep saying you're claiming your opinions as facts?
Do try and quote me for that. I've never claimed that my, or any, opinions are comparable to facts.
No, but you state them as if they are facts. You treat your experiences like some undeniable truth that makes you sound either determined to prove a point you've long since lost all hope to prove or just incapable of separating opinion from fact.
Basically most games make X and A (on Xbox) do multiple things. X will reload your weapon, open doors, and interact with several objects. A will be jump, get in and out of cover, activate animations to get over chest high walls, and other things. It isn't weird for games to require 1 button to do multiple things, it actually makes a lot of sense to do that. You would need a full key board if you wanted everything to be a separate button. Having simplistic design that works on 2 buttons is good. I don't think many people need more than 2 buttons for most Mario Platformers.
But all the things you mentioned are separated and contextual.
In 2D Mario games, you are going to shoot a fireball when you start running, and if you happen to run into a shell or another player, you are going to pick them up. It's not a matter of one function being locked off in a context that another is available.
@UGXWolf how exactly does it work "well" in the context of Mario games? Shooting a fire ball, running, and holding an item are completely different functions. I don't see how they could well together. This is especially true if you are a beginner and want to go slowly and carefully through the level, so forcing a run is an especially bad idea.
Basically most games make X and A (on Xbox) do multiple things. X will reload your weapon, open doors, and interact with several objects. A will be jump, get in and out of cover, activate animations to get over chest high walls, and other things. It isn't weird for games to require 1 button to do multiple things, it actually makes a lot of sense to do that. You would need a full key board if you wanted everything to be a separate button. Having simplistic design that works on 2 buttons is good. I don't think many people need more than 2 buttons for most Mario Platformers.
But all the things you mentioned are separated and contextual.
In 2D Mario games, you are going to shoot a fireball when you start running, and if you happen to run into a shell or another player, you are going to pick them up. It's not a matter of one function being locked off in a context that another is available.
Shooting fireballs and running are separated in the way of, if you want to use fireballs then you need to slow down, and if you want to run through the level then you are more vulnerable. I didn't get a chance to play much multiplayer in 3D world so I am not sure how picking up and throwing characters work, but I do know in the 2D Mario games Multiplayer is a party setting, not a completion setting. The goal isn't to play through as many levels as possible but to have as much fun as possible. This leads to many betrayals as you accidentally throw each other to your doom and mess with your friends, I imagine 3D World's multiplayer is designed in a similar way. Playing through 3D world, there were no spots where I accidentally ran into an enemy instead of shooting a fire ball or I shot a fireball when I was trying to run for my life. I think most players would agree that the 2 button design works and leads to very fun gameplay.
Honestly, I don't even notice any sort of problem with Mario's controls, they work fine to me. The rehashing is the only real problem I have with modern Mario games.
Still not sure why people keep saying you're claiming your opinions as facts?
Do try and quote me for that. I've never claimed that my, or any, opinions are comparable to facts.
No, but you state them as if they are facts. You treat your experiences like some undeniable truth that makes you sound either determined to prove a point you've long since lost all hope to prove or just incapable of separating opinion from fact.
So I'm not allowed to voice my opinions but you are? I state my opinions persuasively and firmly because that's just how I feel. Let's not argue over the disagreements themselves, but rather the matter we're disagreeing about, yeah?
Anyway, I think Nintendo will announce Endless Ocean 2: 2: Secondary Aquatic Boogaloo at this E3. I'll be the premiere launch title for the Wii Blue, Nintendo's new aquatic console. The controller is waterproof and only works when submerged in a fish tank. It sports haptic splash feedback and tidal rumble functionality.
Every game released on the Wii Blue needs to consist exclusively of the water levels that almost everyone else on the internet hates with a passion and that I think are alright. Also, Super Mario Sunshine 2: Shine Harder.
@UGXwolf Although I usually agree with you here, I'm not very fond of the 2D Mario controls either. I prefer DKC's controls way over a 2D Mario control scheme. I actually find 2D Mario games really difficult because of it, on the other hand, DKC:TF, although challenging, wasn't nearly as difficult as say, New Super Mario Bros. U.
Basically most games make X and A (on Xbox) do multiple things. X will reload your weapon, open doors, and interact with several objects. A will be jump, get in and out of cover, activate animations to get over chest high walls, and other things. It isn't weird for games to require 1 button to do multiple things, it actually makes a lot of sense to do that. You would need a full key board if you wanted everything to be a separate button. Having simplistic design that works on 2 buttons is good. I don't think many people need more than 2 buttons for most Mario Platformers.
But all the things you mentioned are separated and contextual.
In 2D Mario games, you are going to shoot a fireball when you start running, and if you happen to run into a shell or another player, you are going to pick them up. It's not a matter of one function being locked off in a context that another is available.
Shooting fireballs and running are separated in the way of, if you want to use fireballs then you need to slow down, and if you want to run through the level then you are more vulnerable. I didn't get a chance to play much multiplayer in 3D world so I am not sure how picking up and throwing characters work, but I do know in the 2D Mario games Multiplayer is a party setting, not a completion setting. The goal isn't to play through as many levels as possible but to have as much fun as possible. This leads to many betrayals as you accidentally throw each other to your doom and mess with your friends, I imagine 3D World's multiplayer is designed in a similar way. Playing through 3D world, there were no spots where I accidentally ran into an enemy instead of shooting a fire ball or I shot a fireball when I was trying to run for my life. I think most players would agree that the 2 button design works and leads to very fun gameplay.
I don't think the game should be forcing choices solely via control scheme like that. Box Boy doesn't allow you to make blocks while airborne, but it's not due to the controls, it's just part of the mechanics.
There have been multiple times in 2D Mario games where I have accidentally picked up a shell or accidentally destroyed a shell that I needed for a secret. There have also been many times where I was struggling because I was holding something and I was forced into a run quickly.
@Octane, I haven't played much of DKCTF, but the little bit I played on a demo stand was far more intuitive and comfortable than any 2D Mario game I've ever played.
Nah, the Pro Controller works just fine. The only people I've known to actually have a problem with it are people who've used nothing but the GCN controller since Melee, and even then, some, not all. (Though the default controls for Pro Controller switch the grab and shield buttons from what GCN users are used to. This is rebindable, of course.)
There's certainly nothing wrong with the pro controller, except perhaps the availability of them. I got 2 at launch but now don't see them anywhere. So for that reason, GC controller support would be great, would allow me to use my wavebird during 4 player Mario Kart
Okay, I'm about 15 hours into Donkey Kong 64, and at this point I am convinced that a new open-world, 3D Donkey Kong game is everything I want from Nintendo this side of Mother 4. I'm not bothered by the amount of collecting there (in fact, I rather enjoy it), but they can even tone that down if they want to. Just give me a new game in that vein, keep it seamless, and I'll be incredibly happy.
I hope that's what Retro is working on, although I do think it's gonna be a new Metroid.
All they need to do to make the pro controller better for next generation is analog triggers and a headset port. Other than that it's perfect.. I actually use it to play Kingdom Hearts via PS2 emulator.
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