Topic: The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess HD - OT

The main story elements in Zelda games has been the myth that you hear as passed down by word of mouth. So with that in mind it's not hard to argue that Twilight Princess was particularly good. We got an entirely new perspective on what had happened in the past. Instead of a story about a hero in Green we heard a story about a race of people who were banished for using powerful dark magic. That's what makes Twilight Princess great in terms of the story.

The Zelda games are great at telling you a lot about the world simply by the way in which things are shown. Or sometimes just by what isn't shown. For example in Skyward Sword you walk into an area and assume that it's the Gerudo Desert. But then there's a stone which you hit that takes you back in time. All of a sudden you realise that this area has a history that's pretty interesting. All of this from an environmental puzzle that they thought would be a cool game mechanic.

Not all story telling has to be done with clunky exposition. Just from the two above things we know for sure that there were these two sequence of events. Both of them taking place in the Gerudo Desert. So somehow the two events lined up at some point and we aren't told how. Now that's good story telling.

I'm not angry: that first post you responded to was hyperbolic semi-trolling. I did use the phrase "higher standard of game" channeling erry tsunadre character eva.

Anyway TP.
Like I said the concept is typical—"a Zelda game," but the scene writing and direction—the execution—is fantastic. It's hard to really explain why the scene direction is so good, so let's just settle for "it's endlessly creative and charming."

Some highlights are:
The main menu video where it cuts to reveal wolf Link when the music swells (https://youtu.be/N0Ocpt9uLoA),
Midna teleporting Zelda & Link away to take on Ganondorf solo (https://youtu.be/N0Ocpt9uLoA?t=5h9m47s),
when Link follows ghost Rutela to the grave, virtually every boss fight (https://youtu.be/N0Ocpt9uLoA?t=2h32m58s),
every "show don't tell" backstory scene, and all of the little animation jokes they do with Midna (henceforth referred to as "Best Girl").

Best Girl is really the heart of TP—it's her story, not Link's—and she incapsulates it as well. Every scene with Best Girl is simply THA BEST. Sure, she's just a standard 'rogue with a heart of gold' Han Solo-type archetype, but she's the best 'rogue with a heart of gold' Han Solo-type archetype! Best Girl, like Twilight Princess, seems typical at first, but reveals true brilliance in her execution.

Zelda games seem to often be criticized for their stories, but I don't think they get nearly enough credit. A story doesn't have to be full of the twists and turns or full-on narrative we get in an average RPG to be good. Moreover, games are fortunate in that there are many more ways to tell a story than just traditional narrative. Music, visuals or even emergent story and world building. I'm not going to pretend Zelda's stories are the best in the biz and they certainly aren't the reason to play, but they do tie exceedingly well into the gameplay. There is skill in that.

I think one area where Zelda games seem to particularly excel in the 3D console entries is thematic complexity, even if it's just down to the individual stories dungeons tell. However, I think Twilight Princess in particular is a particularly cohesive game in terms of its themes. Skyward Sword also had some incredible moments. A highlight for me is the Ancient Cistern, which is based on a Japanese story called the Spider's Thread, but also ties into the wider themes of the game.

Twilight Princess and Skyward Sword do have some excellent cut scenes. Nintendo is definitely getting better at this. The motion capture in Skyward Sword's cut scenes are particularly striking - exquisite, even. Characters are getting more compelling and complex too. Midna is a wonderful character. I agree with @Haru17, Twilight Princess was her tale.

Yep, indirect storytelling is very good when done right. Other good examples are Dark Souls (at least the first one, I didn't pay attention in the 2nd) and Half-life 2. As with Zelda, you can finish all of these games knowing almost nothing about the details of the story.

@Dezzy: Metroid's a solid example, too.

@kyuubikid213: and yet when They try something like character development with Samus in other M they get crucified. Not that I'm complaining but story has never truly been a focus for nintendo. When they do it's pretty darn good more often than not.

Best Zelda stories, IMO:
1. Skyward Sword
2. Majora's Mask
3. Twilight Princess
4. Wind Waker
5. OoT

The cutscenes from the newer hardware just mattered, period. We all understand the NES and SNES stories, but a lot of text was in the instructions or the hardware couldn't represent the story all that well. I'm only saying this about the Zelda games, because games like Chrono Trigger and Secret of Mana were the games from Super Nintendo that I thought had the best stories(they actually had cutscenes every dungeon or whatever).
So ya, I would say the earlier Zelda games made it obvious that story didn't matter as much, but hardware still has to do with it. That's why I would say other 3rd party games had better stories than Zelda; at least where it mattered.

I don't know how you can make that point and not have Twilight Princess above at least Ocarina, Wind Waker, and Skyward Sword. They were all a little sparse plot-wise, though really good.

@Haru17
I forgot to put it on the list, but I edited it in as #3. The only reason why I think MM is the better game, in terms of story, is because the story was more weird, the side quests being heavily part of the game, and it still had better storytelling than OoT and Twilight Pricess, IMO.

Different people like different things.

I've already said storytelling is not something the Zelda series can brag about at all (in my opinion) BUT... BUT... I'll say that A Link To The Past and Phantom Hourglass were nice.

Naturally, but people who think similarly tend to like similar things. As was the case here, as both SCAR and I seem to like Majora's Mask and Twilight Princess as some of our favorite Zelda stories.

Good point. I've only played Super Metroid and Prime 1 buy I have no idea what happened in the story of those. I just didn't pay any attention to it!

(that was a compliment, in this context)

@Haru17
The main reason why I liked Skyward Sword the most, was because of the gameplay and more streamlined story. Things like meeting Levias and the interactions with Groose just beat out every other Zelda game. I also think flying on a bird in the sky is way more bada$$ than Epona. That's why your video meant nothing

Honestly, Skyward Sword won me over with its gameplay when, after just flailing wildly during the first dungeon, Ghirahim required you to actually position your arm certain ways to hurt him. That's when I was like "Wow this is pretty amazing"

Ya. The knight school and sky theme were the best, IMO. The boss fights were also more interactive, Link being able to run faster, and being able drink potions while walking around made the game better. The motion controls were king. It's a shame that Zelda U almost definitely won't have them(motion controls).

EDIT: Sealed grounds was good when the monster was there.

As for Twilight Princess HD, they better make an easier way to find the poes, add massive amounts of unnecessary touch mini games, and add more bugs to find. Those are more reasons why I think TP HD won't happen.

The soundtrack is marvelous, maybe even the best Zelda score ever. I really enjoyed the quirkiness of some of the tracks - like Sealed Grounds - but it covered most bases, and was epic when it needed to be. Overall it has the same sort of vibe I got from Wind Waker in that it is quite musically adventurous. Skyview Temple is probably my most favourite dungeon music since Ocarina's Forest Temple. The mood is perfect. I also find the Isle of Songs music so relaxing.

Where Skyward Sword's music really excelled though was in its clarity. The quality of the sampled tracks was brilliant and the live orchestra tracks just raised it to another level. Which brings me to my point - Twilight Princess would really, really benefit from a fully orchestrated score. Though the compositions themselves are excellent the fact that it is MIDI lets it down, particularly on tracks with synthesized vocals. At least have an actual human sing, Nintendo.

I loved skyward sword. Except for the imprisoned battles and the TP ripoff missions in the silent realm.

Those are unnecessarily stressing parts in an otherwise enjoyable game.

Also skulltulas.

While I agree that the Silent Realm tear missions were elements pulled from TP, I for the most part enjoyed them. There was something about the tension and tear-gathering that I enjoyed. Call me crazy, but I also enjoyed the rush and thrill of outrunning and narrowly escaping the guardians. (Some of that may have been the music)

I do agree about the Imprisoned, though. Those fights were tedious and repetitive after the first time around. But then again... There was the Groosenator.

I liked both but the music was particularly good. Wind Waker was the other way around where both were good but the combat was particularly good. In Skyward Sword I'd find myself just stopping the game so I could enjoy the soundtrack. Particularly in the Lanayru Desert. To be fair most Zelda games have great music, they all have at least one piece that I remember for a long time. It's just that Skyward Sword was just a class above.