Topic: The most important Nintendo article you will read

@DudeSean Again, your analogy does not work.

The game does not come with a CCPro. The back of the box says the game supports CCPro. If you obtain a CCPro and plug it in to the Wii remote, the game supports it.

The game does not come with DLC. The back of the box says the game supports DLC. If the developers released DLC and you installed it onto the Wii U, the game supports it.

There's an awfully big difference that you're either completely unaware of, or ignoring. Either way, the difference is: The DLC doesn't exist, the CCPro does.

You can buy a CCPro, but you can't buy DLC. Because it doesn't exist.

The box is saying it supports something that doesn't exist.

I shouldn't have to explain this to you.

I understand what you're saying, I feel as though you do not understand what I am saying, though. DLC does exist, it just hasn't been released for Wii U. (For one very important reason: it would make the online unplayable because there aren't enough players online.) Let's say you don't have a classic controller (whether you do or not, it doesn't matter, this is a hypothetical). Your classic controller doesn't exist because you don't have one, but the game supports it, anyway. DLC on Wii U doesn't exist, but the game supports it anyway.

Mickey is right what you're saying is wrong on so many levels.

Let's continue this discussion in the Call of Duty DLC thread, please, so I don't have to keep saying the same thing in two threads.

@DudeSean The DLC hasn't been made for the Wii U version (the one that we're talking about and the one that has the box that says it supports DLC), so it still supports something that doesn't exist.

But I can buy that. I can't buy the DLC, because that literally doesn't exist. Classic Controllers existed before COD BLOPS 2, the DLC (that we've established does not exist) didn't. And I already have two CCPros. Nobody has DLC for BLOPS 2.

Going back to this:

The game does not come with a CCPro. The back of the box says the game supports CCPro. If you obtain a CCPro and plug it in to the Wii remote, the game supports it.

The game does not come with DLC. The back of the box says the game supports DLC. If the developers released DLC and you installed it onto the Wii U, the game supports it.

This doesn't work. The developers made CCPro support and you can use the preexisting controller to play the game. The developers said the game can support DLC but they haven't released any so I couldn't buy the DLC and install it onto my Wii U if I wanted to, unlike the CCPro support wherein I can buy the CCPro if I want to and use it in the game.

I'm not against your entire argument (sure, they made the game support future DLC), but comparing the DLC "support" with the CCP support doesn't work.

I'm trying to explain it so scar can understand. Whether or not you agree with the analogy, my point remains valid.

Don't kid yourself, this really isn't a question of understanding at this point so much as being overtly belligerent.

SCAR makes a pretty good point about the Wii and Wii U difference, - the issue here is consumer expectation. Just the fact that SCAR feels differently than you about DLC on a Nintendo machine, shows that there are varying opinions. All legitimate.

Personally, I feel the developer is to blame for releasing a neutered version of COD. The fans are owed an explanation, because the COD franchise is much bigger than the Nintendo audience it serves, and carries expectations regarding DLC / expansion content.

EDIT

This where the analogy gets weird, to me. Sure DLC exists but not for the platform in question, the point is moot.

The explanation is that there are like 2000 people at any given time playing COD online on the Wii-U, out of the (possibly) tens of thousands who actually own the game. Now release DLC (that likely won't sell enough to make it worthwhile for Activision anyway) that will be bought by an even smaller percentage of the active online community, and you now have a MUCH smaller pool of gamers who own the DLC maps on the Wii-U and who are playing online.

It's just as @DudeSean said, and it should be plain as day to anyone with a basic grasp of logic. Activision doesn't need to "explain" why they didn't release DLC for the Wii-U, as you just finished reading the reason why. Activision is going to do what is good for them They are not going to flush their own money down the toilet just to be "nice guys" by putting DLC on the Wii-U that will ....

a) sell less downloads than on any other consoles
b) further fragmenting an already tiny online community, creating more problems (people who bought DLC aren't able to easily find games against others)

I didn't read the whole article, I thought the first few paragraphs were more than enough to see where the writer is going with this, especially since I have seen articles like that floating around the internet already.

I don't believe fanboys have ever been a problem, and if they had been, Nintendo would have failed many years ago. People love talking about how fanboys need to die, but I have never seen the problem. Let everyone be a fanboy, why is that so bad? Let them love their favorite company and just let them be. I think the only thing I would suggest is simply spreading more love about Nintendo than spreading hate about Sony or Microsoft or the game developers that are making games for their platforms, and - most importantly - just enjoying Nintendo games (BTW, we should all start loving things more in general and stop hating so many things instead)

If someone talks to you about how stupid you must have been for buying a Wii U because there are no games for it, why not just say "There aren't many, but boy am I having fun with Wonderful 101!". Why is it so bad to have a blind love for something? I never got that, it is something that everyone despises for some reason. Just love it, this isn't politics or something, this is about video games, just love what you enjoy. Blindly love Nintendo if you really love Nintendo, don't be ashamed of that or something, and don't be cocky about it either but just do it. Play Super Mario 3D World, 100% that game if you are having fun, and rave about how much fun you had online (without taking a jab at the newest Call of Duty, for once). And seriously, if you didn't enjoy any game on the Wii U as much as you would have probably enjoyed a game that just came out on another console, that's absolutely fine too, just get yourself another console and play those games too. You can be a fanboy of one or more companies.

Just have fun for once, will you? It seems like we haven't had fun for the last 6 years with all this 'gaming journalism' and industry analysis going on.

My question arises from @DudeSean 's analogy — if the comparison holds and all features on the box are indeed "supported", shouldn't the developer be held accountable if the content never materializes? Expectation generated by the sticker, in other words.
Saying that it was never intended for the console and Nintendo fans are stupid to expect it; well that's poor marketing and a feeble excuse. Obviously "new fans" are the ones being targeted for the product, if they feel disenfranchised your game has failed.

...I'm willing to accept your reasoning, provided Activision had intentions of releasing DLC and was overruled by the market.

@Nintendelb
Where I think you and others get defensive is when it talks about "fanboys." I consider myself a Nintendo "fanboy" but I would not count me as the "fanboys" the article is talking about. From what I read (the article started repeating and got boring so I didn't read all of it) it was talking about those "fanboys" that don't buy any games other than Nintendo games. Now I agree that Nintendo makes some of the best games in the industry and you shouldn't be ashamed for buying their games. If you refuse to buy games that aren't created by Nintendo then you are part of the problem. 3rd Party Companies make some good games as well and by not buying 3rd Party games on Wii U, just because they aren't made by Nintendo, is bad for Nintendo as 3rd Party don't make much on Nintendo systems. For a system to be "healthy" in the market it needs 1st Party, 3rd Party, and Indie support. (Not one or two but all three. Look at the Ouya, only went for 1 of them and it is doing bad. Wii U is only getting 2 and isn't "healthy") So before anyone gets mad at the article, make sure you understand what it means. It isn't saying you failed the system for buying bad games, it is saying the people who refuse to even give 3rd Party a shot on Wii U are the ones that are failing the system.

@OptometristLime @SCAR392 Can we please keep the CoD DLC discussion in the CoD DLC thread so we're no derailing this thread anymore?

I totally agree with you, Nintendo Fanboys are not the problem, most that I know do at least try out 3rd party games and actually buy them if they are good. So what if we buy all of the Mario and Zelda games, we also buy good non Nintendo games and we shouldn't be obligated to buy non Nintendo games that suck. The same people who are Nintendo fanboys with the struggling Wii U are the same fanboys with the successful 3DS. So I agree with you we need to just play what we want and be more positive.

Another point is that fanboys aren't the only ones doing what people are saying that we do, the general public gets drawn to what's mainstream with iconic characters like Mario, Zelda, Angry Birds, Call of Duty, etc and great gameplay so frankly if games that aren't these types of games aren't attracting people its the fault of the company for making games that are forgettable or not advertising enough. And yes I'm also looking at Nintendo since their week of advertising. But as you said we need to just enjoy the games that we like and positively spread the word.

What I find ignorant about the article, is that alot of people don't buy Nintendo for only 1st party. Before you say, "Oh, Nintendo doesn't have 3rd party games", let me make something clear... Even with Xbox One and PS4, you buy the console that has the exclusives you enjoy most, and generally buy 3rd party games for the console that has the 1st party games that you enjoy most.

I had all the consoles last gen, and actually played Xbox 360 and PS3 more, so when someone calls me a Nintendo "fanboy", they're just failing to realize that I have a different opinion about said topic. There are plenty of idiots on the internet.

He's forgetting to mention that not everyone who buys a Nintendo console is automatically a "fanboy". I had tons of 3rd party games on my GCN, Wii, PS3, and now Wii U, I actually had the least 3rd party games on my Xbox 360.

This is why you're wrong @Peek-a-boo . Next time know who the hell you're talking to, before you make yourself out to be an ignoramus. The article doesn't represent every Nintendo console owner, because there's a such thing as owning other consoles and buying 3rd party support, while still being a Nintendo fan. How surprising! (sarcasm).

EDIT: BTW, I know this somewhat of a late reply, but your reply was beyond reason and irksome, TBH.

I enjoyed reading the article, and while I can agree and relate to some of the points raised, I don't think all 3rd Party support doesn't sell well. Some games, even the ones he mentioned like Need For Speed, sold well or at least decently on Gamecube (1.21 million copies on a 22 million total userbase isn't half bad in my opinion). The stuff about the N64 being a bad console purely because the 3rd parties abandoned it is stupid. It was arrogance and cartridge based media that drove most 3rd parties away, not the hardware being poorly designed.

I buy 3rd Party games if they are exclusive to Nintendo systems or have extra features. I generally not buy games on any console that I can get on PC. While the fanboy consumer compounds the problem, the biggest thing I find a problem with in regards to the Wii U is ADVERTISING and VISIBILITY. Every multiplat 3rd party game that has appeared on Wii U and has had an advert on TV doesn't mention the Wii U at all! It's always the other consoles that are advertised with the game, even if it appears on Wii U.

If you go into shops in the UK, all Nintendo systems, games and accessories are generally pushed to the back, or on a shelf in the centre. Not as invisible as PC games, but for a major home console, it's quite worrying.

Nintendo needs to get their finger out and appeal to the 3rd parties with some exclusive deals and ADVERTISE THEM, as well as their own games. It's bad enough to have a ridiculous and confusing name for your console, but to rely fully upon word and mouth isn't going to drive sales. You need to speculate to accumulate.

I wish I had all the time to read that article. I'll read it later, but for now I do partially agree with the fact that fanboys abandon third parties.
I find that the only third parties that do well in the Wii U audience's hand, is the ones that plead to the Wii U audience, and say that the Wii U's the best, and continues to exclusively support Nintendo.
However, from the point I stopped, there wasn't much emphasis on how much of a casual audience Nintendo has.

I still remember when Activision tried to hide the Wii U version of COD Ghosts like it was the deformed sibling in the attic.

Agh! I just lost my essay-length comment on this topic due to NL automatically logging me out for idling too long. I'll try to summarize what was in that comment;

1. The overall argument being made by the blogger is stupid. People should not be blamed for the failings of an entertainment company they like because those people didn't buy the products of other companies. That's corporate apology and it doesn't cut to the root of the problem, which is that Nintendo is only good at pleasing its fans.

2. HOWEVER, there are some smaller arguments in the essay worth pointing out. The biggest is that you shouldn't limit your taste in any media to one content creator. Another one is that Nintendo fans are obviously more inclined to buy Nintendo games, meaning that Nintendo could easily end up battling the publishers and developers it wants to work with/court.

3. While the raw unit sales of the games make the Gamecube look bad, those don't factor in how big the respective console's user bases were when the games were released. When looking at the percentages of how many people bought a simultaneous multiplatform release (which excludes Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon, Burnout 2, and Crash Bandicoot: The Wrath of Cortex) for one console or another, the percentages don't vary that much. The biggest difference was that of 4%, which is the difference between the PS2 sales and the Gamecube sales of Need For Speed Undercover. I used the VG Sales Wiki to get how many consoles had been sold by the time of a game's release.

I'm so glad that I decided to distance myself from the blog's opinions ASAP. That and tl;dr a lot of the thread has presumably saved me so much grief.

Nintendo's games tend to do well but after seeing at least half of the games I cared about on Wii (especially stuff between Mario Kart Wii and Galaxy 2's releases) be considered niche or flat out failures just made me sad. Both for the devs and for what that means for gaming as well as a selfish wish for the games I care about to be the games that matter. I really think people going back to NSMBU and Sticker Star after playing Super Mario 3D World...I just hope it gives people some idea that they themselves are limiting their own enjoyment of gaming. Because even a lot of Nintendo fans know those games didn't live up to what we expect from Mario and even if Nintendo makes quite a bit of the best games out there, it should be obvious that plenty of the better games out there are better than the lesser Nintendo titles.

also I'm a little disappointed that Arkham Origins was screwed on Wii U despite several accounts of it being the best version just because people felt the extra 10 bucks was worth an apparently not good multiplayer mode. The fact that Nintendo fans would be mad about no online kinda annoys me considering how far Nintendo is willing to go to not force online into their games, which I kinda respect of Nintendo.

I'm so glad that I decided to distance myself from the blog's opinions ASAP. That and tl;dr a lot of the thread has presumably saved me so much grief.

Nintendo's games tend to do well but after seeing at least half of the games I cared about on Wii (especially stuff between Mario Kart Wii and Galaxy 2's releases) be considered niche or flat out failures just made me sad. Both for the devs and for what that means for gaming as well as a selfish wish for the games I care about to be the games that matter. I really think people going back to NSMBU and Sticker Star after playing Super Mario 3D World...I just hope it gives people some idea that they themselves are limiting their own enjoyment of gaming. Because even a lot of Nintendo fans know those games didn't live up to what we expect from Mario and even if Nintendo makes quite a bit of the best games out there, it should be obvious that plenty of the better games out there are better than the lesser Nintendo titles.

also I'm a little disappointed that Arkham Origins was screwed on Wii U despite several accounts of it being the best version just because people felt the extra 10 bucks was worth an apparently not good multiplayer mode. The fact that Nintendo fans would be mad about no online kinda annoys me considering how far Nintendo is willing to go to not force online into their games, which I kinda respect of Nintendo.