And Jazzer94 The reason you keep hearing people say that Competitive Smashers prefer those settings is because that's what we hear out of them. We get plenty of people running out and saying "you're playing it wrong," but I don't hear very many of those people sound any more educated than the people you're attacking. If you want to change this perception, don't attack the people getting the perception, attack the people giving it, because communication is more about being understood than understanding. (I know this'll go right over some people's heads, but you have to realize that it's the job of the speaker to speak to his or her audience and be understood. It is not the audience's job to know exactly what the speaker means when he says stuff they aren't familiar with.)
@UGXwolf Watch any real top player or Smash stream and no they don't say things like "Smash can only ever be played stock and timed on these stages for every person buying smash", actually name me examples because currently the representatives of the scene have been very positive. I correct stupid comments from both sides unfortunately here on NL it is mostly people completely misinterpreting what Smash is which is an open ended book it can be played however you want to and the fact it has/had training modes and tournament modes show that it also has a competitive side to deny that is just simply ignorant end of. On another point to state that playing in competitions isn't fun on a general level is just stupid as people don't hold the same interest or goals.
(Some of this also relates to the rest of the post I didn't quote)
Aaaaand you missed the point. The point is that most of us DON'T watch Smash streams of "top players." Most of us would generally prefer to be playing the game ourselves and our main contact with hardcore players is the elitists that like the sound of their own voice so much that doing their own thing isn't enough, so they have to go everywhere else and make sure everyone knows how much they hate 96% of the stages in the game.
You also fortify the whole "Smash is competitive" thing, which if you remember, I pointed out the emphasis on HARDCORE not COMPETITIVE. The two aren't mutually exclusive by a longshot. You can be competitive and not play hardcore.
As for people stating that competition is no fun, you have to assume the same thing we do when people say that it is. They are speaking for themselves and not the rest of the Smash community. As I said, there are many ways to react to something. Some people (like myself) stop having fun when they get competitive. It stops being a game to me. It becomes very serious to the point that I'm having fits of rage and depression over it. So no, competition is not fun... to me. It may be to you, but some of us (not myself, unfortunately) are more likely to just give up and go home than try and get better.
That actually ties in very nicely to another thing you said that once again agrees with what I'm saying: Smash is open-ended. You can play it however you want. That's why there's an item switch and FD forms and custom characters, amiibos, equipment. There's a completion aspect for those of us that want a set challenge. There's online for those of us that want to socialize in-game. You can add people to your Friend's list from inside the game, just in case you find a really fun opponent and want to play again. Not so fond of competition? There's an entire section that's nothing but single-player stuff, though if you have some friends over, you don't have to do this stuff alone. Smash has turned into one of those games that if someone tells you you're playing it wrong, you have every right to Falcon Punch them in the face, because there's really no wrong way to play it.
And Jazzer94 The reason you keep hearing people say that Competitive Smashers prefer those settings is because that's what we hear out of them. We get plenty of people running out and saying "you're playing it wrong," but I don't hear very many of those people sound any more educated than the people you're attacking. If you want to change this perception, don't attack the people getting the perception, attack the people giving it, because communication is more about being understood than understanding. (I know this'll go right over some people's heads, but you have to realize that it's the job of the speaker to speak to his or her audience and be understood. It is not the audience's job to know exactly what the speaker means when he says stuff they aren't familiar with.)
@UGXwolf Watch any real top player or Smash stream and no they don't say things like "Smash can only ever be played stock and timed on these stages for every person buying smash", actually name me examples because currently the representatives of the scene have been very positive. I correct stupid comments from both sides unfortunately here on NL it is mostly people completely misinterpreting what Smash is which is an open ended book it can be played however you want to and the fact it has/had training modes and tournament modes show that it also has a competitive side to deny that is just simply ignorant end of. On another point to state that playing in competitions isn't fun on a general level is just stupid as people don't hold the same interest or goals.
(Some of this also relates to the rest of the post I didn't quote)
Aaaaand you missed the point. The point is that most of us DON'T watch Smash streams of "top players." Most of us would generally prefer to be playing the game ourselves and our main contact with hardcore players is the elitists that like the sound of their own voice so much that doing their own thing isn't enough, so they have to go everywhere else and make sure everyone knows how much they hate 96% of the stages in the game.
First thing that came to mind when reading this "ignorance is bliss", I mean to judge something before even taking the time to fully understand it is the essence of ignorance and really why we have so many problems in general that's all I'm going to say on the matter the rest I'm not addressing because I've already done so and it has nothing to do with what my points really were.
Basically what MetalK9 said, I'm not telling anyone to play the game the way I want it to be played. I'm saying to stop coming up witht his techniques that's not intended to be in the game.
Players don't make these techniques up. They're in the game, so people can use them if they want to. Also, telling people to not use techniques that are in the game IS telling them to not play the game in a specific way. It is selfish to suggest people should not play the game in a way they enjoy just because it bothers you, especially when it's their copy of the game. You're better off ignoring that part of the Smash community if you don't like people playing it as anything other than a party game because you'll get nowhere telling people to play the game how you want them to just because Sakurai intended for it to be played that way.
Are techniques intended to be in the game? Yes yes? Nah I don't think so. Why waste time with coming up with these techniques?... Perfect pivot is almost utterly useless, I see no one using this technique... Stop trying to ruin the game with these "techniques" that make yourself look more "professional." Don't ADD something to the game that's not supposed to be there. It's like hacking the game to put stuff that's not meant to be there for example. I'm not telling people how to play the game, I'm just saying to stick to what the game has not to make stuff out of it. Yes coming up with techniques is technically adding something too the game. I think you will probably fail to see my point on this one, and try to counter. Also for your information I'm not a "casual."
Pootypie
Switch Friend Code: SW-4862-0398-5013 | 3DS Friend Code: 5198-3100-0796 | My Nintendo: Pootypie | Nintendo Network ID: BlueMario1998
Basically what MetalK9 said, I'm not telling anyone to play the game the way I want it to be played. I'm saying to stop coming up witht his techniques that's not intended to be in the game.
Players don't make these techniques up. They're in the game, so people can use them if they want to. Also, telling people to not use techniques that are in the game IS telling them to not play the game in a specific way. It is selfish to suggest people should not play the game in a way they enjoy just because it bothers you, especially when it's their copy of the game. You're better off ignoring that part of the Smash community if you don't like people playing it as anything other than a party game because you'll get nowhere telling people to play the game how you want them to just because Sakurai intended for it to be played that way.
Are techniques intended to be in the game? Yes yes? Nah I don't think so. Why waste time with coming up with these techniques?... Perfect pivot is almost utterly useless, I see no one using this technique... Stop trying to ruin the game with these "techniques" that make yourself look more "professional." Don't ADD something to the game that's not supposed to be there. It's like hacking the game to put stuff that's not meant to be there for example. I'm not telling people how to play the game, I'm just saying to stick to what the game has not to make stuff out of it. Yes coming up with techniques is technically adding something too the game. I think you will probably fail to see my point on this one, and try to counter. Also for your information I'm not a "casual."
But aren't techniques needed to make the game special for everyone? Like, my Zero Suit Samus technique is to rack up damage on my opponent, down grab, up b. Its almost always a ko
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Basically what MetalK9 said, I'm not telling anyone to play the game the way I want it to be played. I'm saying to stop coming up witht his techniques that's not intended to be in the game.
Players don't make these techniques up. They're in the game, so people can use them if they want to. Also, telling people to not use techniques that are in the game IS telling them to not play the game in a specific way. It is selfish to suggest people should not play the game in a way they enjoy just because it bothers you, especially when it's their copy of the game. You're better off ignoring that part of the Smash community if you don't like people playing it as anything other than a party game because you'll get nowhere telling people to play the game how you want them to just because Sakurai intended for it to be played that way.
Are techniques intended to be in the game? Yes yes? Nah I don't think so. Why waste time with coming up with these techniques?... Perfect pivot is almost utterly useless, I see no one using this technique... Stop trying to ruin the game with these "techniques" that make yourself look more "professional." Don't ADD something to the game that's not supposed to be there. It's like hacking the game to put stuff that's not meant to be there for example. I'm not telling people how to play the game, I'm just saying to stick to what the game has not to make stuff out of it. Yes coming up with techniques is technically adding something too the game. I think you will probably fail to see my point on this one, and try to counter. Also for your information I'm not a "casual."
But aren't techniques needed to make the game special for everyone? Like, my Zero Suit Samus technique is to rack up damage on my opponent, down grab, up b. Its almost always a ko
What you said is a combo... Not technique.
Pootypie
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@TheGreatBrawler / @justlink - I think it's a technique/combo. Cause it's kinda cheap. Sure, duh a combo but it's not as hard as landing a common Smash Attack or using Megaman's A, A, A, Short Hop, Down air combo which both takes timing and skill. Remember when people said Diddy's OP because the Down Throw, chase, Up-Air combo can hit at any % and can even KO. Doesn't take skill to pull it off cause that's what alot of grabs do. Not saying you shouldn't but heaps of grabs don't let you do the combo after a certain % unlike Diddy's.
But we're talking about Advanced Techs like Jump Cancel- Glide, Perfect Pivoting and Wave Dashing. These techs can't really be done without the Game Cube Controller so if others are winning because they do these techs with a GCC and you can't do them with what you got, then it's kinda 'pay to win.'
You're ZSSamus Combo is just an obvious combo that everyone knows. Not that it's bad, but like I said with Diddy. It's just something that people just roll their eyes at.
Are techniques intended to be in the game? Yes yes? Nah I don't think so. Why waste time with coming up with these techniques?... Perfect pivot is almost utterly useless, I see no one using this technique... Stop trying to ruin the game with these "techniques" that make yourself look more "professional." Don't ADD something to the game that's not supposed to be there. It's like hacking the game to put stuff that's not meant to be there for example. I'm not telling people how to play the game, I'm just saying to stick to what the game has not to make stuff out of it. Yes coming up with techniques is technically adding something too the game. I think you will probably fail to see my point on this one, and try to counter. Also for your information I'm not a "casual."
I'll just throw a few points out there:
1. Competitive players did not develop the game, so any advanced techniques were made by Sakurai and his team.
2. It's not wasting time by advancing the metagame if that's what some players enjoy. This goes back to my point of letting people who bought the game play how they want to. Unless you'd prefer Smash 4 lose sales from people who don't care about how Sakurai intended the game to be played, but enjoy the inherently unique gameplay mechanics?
3. It is at least implying people are playing the wrong way if using advanced techniques is "ruining" the game.
4. I never claimed you were a casual player, so I would appreciate if you didn't put words in my mouth.
Really, the main point I'm trying to get across is that people should be able to play how they want to without getting flak for it. Self-control is a good quality to have, and it would not be a bad thing if more people in the Smash community had it.
Storytime7
3DS Friend Code: 4124-5304-9315 | Nintendo Network ID: storytime7
1. Competitive players did not develop the game, so any advanced techniques were made by Sakurai and his team.
2. It's not wasting time by advancing the metagame if that's what some players enjoy. This goes back to my point of letting people who bought the game play how they want to. Unless you'd prefer Smash 4 lose sales from people who don't care about how Sakurai intended the game to be played, but enjoy the inherently unique gameplay mechanics?
3. It is at least implying people are playing the wrong way if using advanced techniques is "ruining" the game.
4. I never claimed you were a casual player, so I would appreciate if you didn't put words in my mouth.
Really, the main point I'm trying to get across is that people should be able to play how they want to without getting flak for it. Self-control is a good quality to have, and it would not be a bad thing if more people in the Smash community had it.
I don't think you're seeing our point of veiw. (That or we are just bad at communication) Remember that these Advanced Techs were found during the WiiU version and only when the people had a Game Cube Controller. (That's what they were demonstrating with)
Perfect Pivoting is performed by a SUPER FAST one side flick then go to the other side. You try it and you may be dashing on the spot but performed properly and you dash and then you do the action like you're turning around normally, canceling the dash and turning it into a slide where you can attack freely for more coverage. That's kinda what Dodging is for, or even dashing then quick Up-Smashing. It can't be performed on the 3ds properly because you risk destroying your Circle-Pad. If the 3ds could have been capable AND Sakurai knew about it, then it wouldn't it be in the 'hints and tips?'
So tell me... Does that sound that the Advanced Techs are meant to be in the game and that Sakurai on purposely put them in, even though he says in he's last interview that "... It will have no future."?
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I love how a mistranslation caused the entire Smash community to get up in arms. Quite funny if you ask me. Just play how you want, whether it's casual or competitive or anything in between. Same goes for Pokemon.
By the way, has Sakurai talked about why Lucas and Wolf are absent yet?
@MetalK9 It doesn't matter if he wanted to include those techniques, they're in the game. Players had no involvement in the game's development, so they had nothing to do with those techniques other than discovering they exist.
Are techniques intended to be in the game? Yes yes? Nah I don't think so. Why waste time with coming up with these techniques?... Perfect pivot is almost utterly useless, I see no one using this technique... Stop trying to ruin the game with these "techniques" that make yourself look more "professional." Don't ADD something to the game that's not supposed to be there. It's like hacking the game to put stuff that's not meant to be there for example. I'm not telling people how to play the game, I'm just saying to stick to what the game has not to make stuff out of it. Yes coming up with techniques is technically adding something too the game. I think you will probably fail to see my point on this one, and try to counter. Also for your information I'm not a "casual."
I'll just throw a few points out there:
1. Competitive players did not develop the game, so any advanced techniques were made by Sakurai and his team.
2. It's not wasting time by advancing the metagame if that's what some players enjoy. This goes back to my point of letting people who bought the game play how they want to. Unless you'd prefer Smash 4 lose sales from people who don't care about how Sakurai intended the game to be played, but enjoy the inherently unique gameplay mechanics?
3. It is at least implying people are playing the wrong way if using advanced techniques is "ruining" the game.
4. I never claimed you were a casual player, so I would appreciate if you didn't put words in my mouth.
Really, the main point I'm trying to get across is that people should be able to play how they want to without getting flak for it. Self-control is a good quality to have, and it would not be a bad thing if more people in the Smash community had it.
1. Was it intended? If not then it not meant to be in game.
2. Lose sales? The competitive players are minority, what Sakurai said makes sense. There are more of non-competitive players than there are, if he focused on competitive only then only the mere minority of smash playwrs will be able to play.
3. What?
4. I'm not saying you called me a casual, I'm just saying so just that you know. Maybe I worded that part wrong, my bad.
Pootypie
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I love how a mistranslation caused the entire Smash community to get up in arms. Quite funny if you ask me. Just play how you want, whether it's casual or competitive or anything in between. Same goes for Pokemon.
By the way, has Sakurai talked about why Lucas and Wolf are absent yet?
I think he did but not directly... Lucas doesn't have a future (?) exactly, so he is put low priority, as Sakurai focuses on characters with future (although that is very questioning). For Wolf, I think it SORT OF works the same as Lucas. Sure he is in the next Star Fox game, but roster was decided 2012, in which Star Fox game was not announced so he probably thought Wolf had no future too, or at least Star Fox series, so maybe lucky Falco was in. I think that this is the reason at least, but I may be wrong.
Pootypie
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2. Lose sales? The competitive players are minority, what Sakurai said makes sense. There are more of non-competitive players than there are, if he focused on competitive only then only the mere minority of smash playwrs will be able to play.
You misunderstood. Smash will still sell just fine even if Sakurai chooses to ignore parts of the fanbase (because the fans he does cater to are the majority), but lost sales (as in, people who won't buy the game because it doesn't focus on what they want out of the series) are still lost sales. That's a bad thing when the game will struggle to sell anywhere near past entries because of the console it was released on.
It doesn't matter if he wanted to include those techniques, they're in the game.
W-Wat? All your previous comments sound like he on purposely put them there.
No, all my previous comments have stated that competitive players do not create advanced techniques because they didn't develop the game. I never once stated Sakurai wanted to put those features in the game, just that they ended up in the finished product.
Storytime7
3DS Friend Code: 4124-5304-9315 | Nintendo Network ID: storytime7
Are techniques intended to be in the game? Yes yes? Nah I don't think so. Why waste time with coming up with these techniques?... Perfect pivot is almost utterly useless, I see no one using this technique... Stop trying to ruin the game with these "techniques" that make yourself look more "professional." Don't ADD something to the game that's not supposed to be there. It's like hacking the game to put stuff that's not meant to be there for example. I'm not telling people how to play the game, I'm just saying to stick to what the game has not to make stuff out of it. Yes coming up with techniques is technically adding something too the game. I think you will probably fail to see my point on this one, and try to counter. Also for your information I'm not a "casual."
LMAO.
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Probably only me and I don't Intend to start an argument with anyone but I brought this game a couple days back and personally I really don't like it. The AI just seems to know everything I'm going to throw at them making me look silly. Now I'm one for a challenge but Smash Bros takes the micky. So much so I almost threw the pad at my tv a few times.
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