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Topic: My only problem with Super Mario 3D World...

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IanNoog

1. Posted:

...Is the levels just aren't memorable.

I was home sick from school for the past week, so I decided to replay some Mario games.

What I noticed, is when I played 64, Sunshine and Galaxy, I instantly remembered some levels to go back to Big Boo's Haunt, Tick Tock Clock, Cool, Cool, Mountain, Pinna Park, Sirena Beach, Gusty Gardens, and High Tails Falls Galaxy.

The difference between these levels (although moreso 64 and Sunshine, less Galaxy) is you'd return to these worlds many different times to get all the stars and sprites. For example, as a kid I was so excited after beating the ghost manta-ray in Sirena, being allowed into the hotel and getting to explore a whole new area. You'd return to these areas over and over, so you'd get used to them, and seeing the little changes that would happen to the stage when getting a new star would always be exciting.

Now, that's not to say 3D Land itself wasn't memorable, as I really enjoyed that game. It was a handheld game, so Nintendo assumed you wouldn't have time to always play a 10-25 minute level, (64 DS?) which I can understand.

However, 3D World is a game on Nintendo's first HD console ever, and a much more capable system than the Wii was.

The problem with having a bunch of short levels, is none of them will feel memorable, and they will probably repeat tropes, such as a bunch of snow levels apposed to just one snow world in 64 or Galaxy.

What do you think? Did you like those big levels, or would you rather have the 2D gameplay translated into 3D like 3D Land and World?

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DestinyMan

2. Posted:

We know so little about the game, so I wouldn't be judging right now. That said, I understand where you're coming from. Although you did return to those big stages over and over again, the star or sun sprite missions kept things interesting. However, 3D Land and 3D World are a completely different kind of 3D Mario. 3D Land's formula works perfectly on a handheld, but we'll see how that formula works on a home console. I expect the levels to be a bit longer, and while we'll be seeing the usual grassland, desert, snow, and lava levels that almost every Mario game has, let's at least be optimistic and expect Nintendo to surprise us.

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IanNoog

3. Posted:

DestinyMan wrote:

We know so little about the game, so I wouldn't be judging right now. That said, I understand where you're coming from. Although you did return to those big stages over and over again, the star or sun sprite missions kept things interesting. However, 3D Land and 3D World are a completely different kind of 3D Mario. 3D Land's formula works perfectly on a handheld, but we'll see how that formula works on a home console. I expect the levels to be a bit longer, and while we'll be seeing the usual grassland, desert, snow, and lava levels that almost every Mario game has, let's at least be optimistic and expect Nintendo to surprise us.

I agree.I like that they're mixing it up with that Water Yoshi thing, and different bosses, but after watching the e3 demos, it doesn't look like they're long levels.

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Tuurtledove

4. Posted:

Much as you say,
The current gripe in SM3DW is the bland level and art direction. And you make some really excellent points there.
However. I'm personally rather understanding in the direction they have taken it in.

You see. SM3DW isn't a single-player experience. It's primarily Multiplayer.
And it's not split-screen. So this means all four characters can technically access any part of the screen at one time. And they definitely will. Due to this it's important that the art-style doesn't become a distraction. And it doesn't become to difficult to find your character amongst three others. The game itself becomes less about immersion, and more about the interactions with those around you. Secondly. Gameplay and challenge is focused once again on the Multiplayer aspect. So there does need to be a sense of purpose in which direction you're supposed to go. Especially if how the screen moves is dictated by the general direction in which the players move. It makes for a more linear level layout. Though one that is also far more practicable and enjoyable when playing alongside other people

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Kyloctopus

5. Posted:

I believe 3D Land was rushed in a desperate attempt, to make the 3DS sell. We were told several ideas were cut from the game, and how do you get from this
Untitled
to gameplay noticeably different in a matter of months? Levels are small and sometimes unimaginative. I feel Nintendo SDC wanted to work harder on the game. Hence 3D World.
From what I've seen, the levels look good enoguh for me. After all, they have actual bosses, that aren't turtles in this game.

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Unca_Lz

6. Posted:

To be fair, most Mario games are like this

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IanNoog

7. Posted:

Kyloctopus wrote:

I believe 3D Land was rushed in a desperate attempt, to make the 3DS sell. We were told several ideas were cut from the game, and how do you get from this
Untitled
to gameplay noticeably different in a matter of months? Levels are small and sometimes unimaginative. I feel Nintendo SDC wanted to work harder on the game. Hence 3D World.
From what I've seen, the levels look good enoguh for me. After all, they have actual bosses, that aren't turtles in this game.

That's a good point, I would like to see how the Koopa shell skateboarding would've worked, but I think those pictures are just altered camera angles that are inaccessible in game.

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SphericalCrusher

8. Posted:

Have you had the chance to play much of 3D World to make that statement? JW! I tested it out months back, and played through two levels. I was kind of rushed when playing it, but I have to say I feel kind of the same way. I don't remember much about those levels other than changing into cat form. Now when the game launches and I get to experience more levels, I'll see if it's a different story.... I am assuming it is. I just know coop can also take away from how memorable a map is. IMO

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MrWalkieTalkie

9. Posted:

The levels aren't memorable because they're new, of course you wouldn't remember them. How could anyone remember levels to a game that hasn't released yet?

Heck, I say we should all hate Mario Kart 8 because we haven't played it yet therefore it's unmemorable! Why stop there, even? Let's hate Wonderful 101, that sure doesn't seem familiar! And what's with these new Pokemon? Sure don't remember them because they're new, so they must be bad!

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mamp

10. Posted:

Personally I prefer larger levels I liked exploring, and TBH most games have lost the type of exploration you had back in the 64 days, probably the main reason I'm excited for a hat in time.

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WingedSnagret

11. Posted:

If NSMBU didn't exist, I wouldn't have any problem with 3D World's multiplayer focus. Otherwise, it just seems redundant (which has been a recurring theme as of late).

However, 3D World will be the first mainstream 3D Mario game to have single screen multiplayer (more then two players to be more exact), which is pretty special in of itself.

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Tasuki

12. Posted:

It's not out yet.

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Kyloctopus

13. Posted:

IanNoog wrote:

That's a good point, I would like to see how the Koopa shell skateboarding would've worked, but I think those pictures are just altered camera angles that are inaccessible in game.

It doesn't seem right to make camera angles for 4 photos, only to never use that angle again.

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HappyHappyist

14. Posted:

Kyloctopus wrote:

I believe 3D Land was rushed in a desperate attempt, to make the 3DS sell. Levels are small and sometimes unimaginative. I feel Nintendo SDC wanted to work harder on the game. Hence 3D World.

wait, i'm confused. if 3DLand was rushed to make the 3DS sell, what makes 3DWorld any different? 3DS wasn't selling until 3DLand came along, WiiU isn't selling now, might not until 3DWorld comes along (and that's a maybe). so, what we have is this: both 3DLand and 3DWorld were made to sell their system, as both were suffering from lack of sales, no? well if 3DLand was a desperate attempt to sell 3DS's, what makes you think they wouldn't rush 3DWorld? why would they be able to work harder on the game?

seriously, i'm not trying to troll or be mean, i'm genuinely confused.

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IanNoog

15. Posted:

Kyloctopus wrote:

IanNoog wrote:

That's a good point, I would like to see how the Koopa shell skateboarding would've worked, but I think those pictures are just altered camera angles that are inaccessible in game.

It doesn't seem right to make camera angles for 4 photos, only to never use that angle again.

In debut mode, or while developing a game, the makers can change the camera angles and move everything around. Look at some of the Smash Bros. Wii U pictures, some of those angles will not be seen in the game, but are accessible by developers.

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IanNoog

16. Posted:

MrWalkieTalkie wrote:

The levels aren't memorable because they're new, of course you wouldn't remember them. How could anyone remember levels to a game that hasn't released yet?

Heck, I say we should all hate Mario Kart 8 because we haven't played it yet therefore it's unmemorable! Why stop there, even? Let's hate Wonderful 101, that sure doesn't seem familiar! And what's with these new Pokemon? Sure don't remember them because they're new, so they must be bad!

If you noticed, in my post I talked about 3D Land. How none of the levels in that game were memorable to me, and since this game has the same format, most likely, it won't have "memorable" levels either.

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HappyHappyist

17. Posted:

IanNoog wrote:

MrWalkieTalkie wrote:

The levels aren't memorable because they're new, of course you wouldn't remember them. How could anyone remember levels to a game that hasn't released yet?

Heck, I say we should all hate Mario Kart 8 because we haven't played it yet therefore it's unmemorable! Why stop there, even? Let's hate Wonderful 101, that sure doesn't seem familiar! And what's with these new Pokemon? Sure don't remember them because they're new, so they must be bad!

If you noticed, in my post I talked about 3D Land. How none of the levels in that game were memorable to me, and since this game has the same format, most likely, it won't have "memorable" levels either.

well, i think i may disagree. have you played NSMBU yet? there's this one level that looks like a Van Gogh painting, and it's easily the most memorable part of the game, even though none of the levels take place in the same area. if nintendo could pull off more, different kinds of creativity like that, we wouldn't have 3DLand's problem. i will agree that 3DLand is not memorable though. i can't remember what any of the levels look like or what the areas names are.

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kkslider5552000

18. Posted:

I do agree. Having the locations being genuinely interesting and at least pretending to be more than "video game level #5" tends to be a good thing.

My main issue is that it's a sequel to a nostalgia game that was surrounded by constant nostalgia games. If this was released like...between the 2 Galaxy games or after Sunshine or something, I would probably get it ASAP but I need something notably different for a Mario title to convince me to get it when it has tough competition for recent/upcoming titles, even in its own genre. Like I'll get it eventually most likely and it was necessary from a sales perspective so whatever, but I do hope they do something crazy new or something next time (though its the closest we've gotten in a while from a platformer, so there's that). I do feel bad for the creators and the game itself, honestly. Its hype from gamers has been at least halved for entirely the reasons of how other recent Mario games have been. Kinda like how I feel bad for my favorite handheld Sonic game that came out the year after Sonic 06 (though in no reality is any recent Mario comparable to that disaster of course).

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I-U

19. Posted:

I don't know if having a level be a short experience will be make it less memorable. There is a chance many of these levels could be revisited if a player happens to miss Star Coins on the initial run through, or could be revisited just for the sake of blazing through for a nice record with a better approach. While I don't think Star Coins and time records have been confirmed, I'm pretty certain they will be considering this is a follow up on 3D Land. That said, I feel like these levels are less memorable due to the fact that they're being called "Level 1-, 2-, ect" instead of being named. Now NSMBU named its levels, and I definitely think 3D World should do the same. If they don't name the levels, it's a step back in my opinion from what they did with NSMBU.

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Tuurtledove

20. Posted:

I do however also feel that from what we've seen the levels don't feel nearly as unique as in previous games. Now they appear to be more built around instantaneous game-play distractions, rather than exploration or immersion. And perhaps this is once again the multi-player aspect that's manipulating the level design so severely. Though it also almost feels as if they've perfected the art style of Mario to the point of blandness

Super Mario Galaxy had the slight glow and hue around all characters and edges. Making for a rather immersive and In-your-face experience. Super Mario Sunshine had those beautiful water effects, And Mario's pale and untanned little arms. Whilst SM3DW merely feels like the generic outcome from all of the previous titles, And now there's no really feeling of unique-ness about it unfortunately

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