Topic: Does the Kinect-less Xbox One mean anything for the Wii U?

Repetition is an on going problem with threads about Wii U.

Well do you have other examples? Because not liking the microphone feature is a personal taste.
The truth is that 3DWorld also used the touchscreen to manipulate blocks, trees, gommbas, etc. The microphone was secondary to that.

We saw some quick ideas they have had before moving onto their core franchises (Mario Kart, Smash)

Mainly I think we are talking about Mario 3D World, Mario Kart, and Smash which are a part of Nintendo's core franchises where they want to deliver mechanics that we already know.

Well as Nintendo has said once their core franchises are out they can start focusing on new games and new mechanics.

Correct if a GamePad-less SKU came out the SKU itself wouldn't affect me. What would affect me and other GamePad owners is that Nintendo would need to start working on delivering games for GamePad-less people meaning less GamePad focused development. Less GamePad development means they were lying about focusing on the GamePad which can cause customers to feel abandoned especially when the next console comes.

But why create games that part of your already relatively small install base cannot play.

you mean peripherals that normally come out later in a console's lifespan? It would be like if after two years Nintendo stopped making games that support Wii-Remote.

Nintendo needs to focus on growing a single unified install base. Also there is nothing the Pro Controller can do that the GamePad cannot. So you have the option of creating GamePad centric games or not without having to worry about different install bases.

Or that person just doesn't buy the software as they do not have the hardware for it, similar to those people who don't think the Wii U is worth it for just a "few" games.

You can sell to those two groups now, they provide the option of the Pro Controller, it just costs more

Not all Wii U software. You actually miss out on a lot of features. Features Nintendo is going to focused on.

While not all system functions work without the GamePad, most do. You can boot-up the system, select user, and start a game with just the Pro Controller.

I am confused how another SKU would not confuse people or clear up any confusion.

That is your opinion. I personally really like having a map on the GamePad. Some people call that lazy or shoe horned in but I personally really like it. Since the Wii U came out I find it annoying to have to navigate through menus to get to the map. I also don't think Off-TV play is lazy or shoe-horned as if a game doesn't use GamePad features then Off-TV play is really nice when I can't use the TV but I want to play a console game.

I think I covered everything

Well it was the 5th point I made, it was minor. Gamepad enhancements like those things I feel should be optional I guess.

Good counter points even if I don't agree with all of them. These issues are more subjective and I enjoy the debate.

I think some of your thoughts on why the gamepad hasn't been utilized too well so far are wishful thinking but that is just me being the pessimist and you being the optimist.

I don't think we need fear a lack of future gamepad support if they went with this strategy. I am the optimist here and you are the pessimist. Much of what you understood as "shoe horned" features are actually features I think we would still get no matter what. They are ways the gamepad enhances the game but some one could still play these games in a more traditional way. Wind Waker HD is a perfect example of this. Me and you may love playing with the gamepad but the game is still perfectly playable and enjoyable to someone who hates the gamepad and wants to play with a pro controller. I also feel that gamepad centered games have not been big sellers but Nintendo will keep making them for us just as they promised. I am pessimistic they can create a killer app however and I don't think succeeding in creating a killer app in the future means they have to sell a gamepad with every console in the present.

I kind of figure that the budget SKU would clearly state it only works for a sub-library of games and that you sort of market it as a box that only plays those games but it does have potential for confusion if someone just buys the system because it's cheaper. I think the hard feelings would be avoided if it costs the same to buy a traditional SKU as it does to buy a budget SKU and a gamepad. Anyone who is in that situation would only have themselves to blame if they were upset they couldn't play a certain game with out the gamepad. As I said this has never been a problem in the past such as needing a light gun to play light gun games or even needing a trackball to play certain games on Atari 2600.

Yes I can boot up the system and play a game with out the gamepad except that I need to password protect my user account so my kids don't mess with my stuff, so annoying that text entry is gamepad only when I use the Dpad and buttons on the gamepad to enter the text anyway. It would also be hugely appreciated to be able to use Netflix, system settings, and the eshop with a controller other than the gamepad.

Perhaps simply updating the software to not force the use of the gamepad is enough. You can get replacement consoles with out a gamepad pretty cheap and the people who would be interested in this sort of budget SKU would probably hear about it. Right now I would not recommend some one getting a Wii U with out a gamepad but if they updated the software it could pretty easily be a very viable option for some people. The boost in software sales is the main benefit and perhaps the software update would be enough to gain those benefits to some degree. It would certainly make the Wii U a better console at the minimum.

To true lol sometimes I get carried away lol.

I am not going to discuss this further as so many people have brought up all the negatives and anti-GamePad people aren't going to change their minds

I am used to longer quotes defaulting to a spoiler tag.....edited to diminish wall of text syndrome....

Gonna take a stab at this in all seriousness:

1) Let's agree that the numbers I use are not meant to accurately reflect real world values, but act as rough estimates for purposes of this exercise.

Let's say the entire cost of manufacturing a Wii U is $300
Let's say the cost of manufacturing the game pad alone is 1/3 or $100
Let's say the cost of hardware inside the Wii U to make the remote properties of the game pad work is $20

Now you have to make a decision, will the gamepad-free SKU include the hardwarde that will allow the consumer to buy or use a gamepad with the hardware later on?

• I think you more or less have to. It's a lost opportunity if the consumer wants to "upgrade" and cannot, and it would cause even more confusion and anger within the already small and splintered WII U user base if a popular game that requires extensive gamepad features comes out at a later date and those who bought the game pad free SKU could not upgrade at all.

So assuming all that...

Those components costing $20 that allow for the main hardware unit to communicate with the game pad would still need to be included within the unit. I think what is being argued here, is that the consumer will be buying a no game pad SKU at a reduced cost that will contain hardware for a feature that won't be used, unless you make the decision to create that SKU with no ability to later upgrade at all...

Please understand! I am not arguing whether or not this is a valid set of numbers or strategy, but trying to elucidate the argument that is not being communicated well but argued fiercely.

In the end, it's just another reason why an SKU with no game pad is a bad idea now.

* looks at watch *

the first time ninty used a mic controler feature that i know of was the original zelda on the famicom. if you yelled at it certain enemys would get scared and freeze. this is nothing new. i remember blowing into my ds for wario games. this isn't shoehorned as much as it's something they like to do.

I just looked at the eShop to see which games require the GamePad, and it's at least half of them. Go look for yourselves...

That is surprising to me. Are you sure these are not games that simply support the gamepad and do not require it?

I know NES remix originally was gamepad only when it was released. This was a huge oversight that was quickly corrected by a patch that let you use any and all controllers. All the VC games support all controllers as well.

They are titles that require it. I was only including Wii U specific software(indie, apps, retail download). Some of the Lego games require it. Splintercell, Deus Ex, and a ton of indie games require it...

Well much of that is just laziness then. Splinter cell requires the gamepad? Seriously?

This is the type of laziness that would be corrected if a budget SKU was a reality. Games like Splintercell should not require the gamepad.

How hard is it to make a button on your pro controller switch between the two screens? (I think it can be done on a system wide lever with out too much trouble) The vast majority of games that require the gamepad do so unnecessarily. Unless its using a touchscreen/mic/gyro the procontroller should be an alternative option.

Your list is just like saying Netflix requires the gamepad....yes it does require the gamepad but there is no reason it should support only the gamepad and nothing else.

@blaisedinsd
Well, usually they just map the controls to a button, but since the GamePad is there, and it comes with every system, they design the game to utilize the GamePad and expect people to use it. That's why the GamePad would have probably been optional from the get go, if it were to be at all.

Nintendo said their system was going to be heavily based on 2 screen games, so I don't know how people expected otherwise. Even Ubisoft said Splintercell was a real attempt at making good use of it. They don't even have local co-op, because they want players to play on the GamePad, without a split screen, I think.

Splinter Cell 100% absolutely did not require the gamepad. I played through it with the pro controller.

Oh, well it says it does on the eShop. Still, there are alot of games that need the GamePad. Nintendo would be asking 50+ developers to implement a different controller option, even though the GamePad might be what has drawn them to publishing/developing for the platform.

My head just exploded from this thread again...I need to invest in some duct tape.

It's laziness when devs don't use the game pad and it's laziness when devs require it now...

Confirming what I've always thought:
This gen Nintendo is damned if they do and damned if they don't.

^blaisedinsd - I'm not saying you have contradicted yourself, just making an observation on how absurd these arguments can get

Here's a personal anecdote: I was really sick today and wanted to sit up in my bed with the pro controller and play some Toki-Tori since it's a slow, puzzle game that my mucus-filled head could relax and play...guess what?

• Gamepad required.