@iKahn
Except that most of the games being released on Xbox One and PS4 are also "last-gen", in terms of gameplay. Most of the enhancements they've made so far, are strictly cosmetic.
Gamers put an irrational amount of value on graphics. Maybe because we are used to associate them with power, maybe because they just carry a wow factor. That's why the PS4 has been so successful despite InFAMOUS being the only game that really shows of what the power can do.
@iKahn
And weren't Wii Sports resort and Wii Fit/plus games that required peripherals that were some of the best selling games on the Wii?
Skyward Sword and Majoras mask were also follow up Zelda games (second to Ocarina and Twilight) on the system late in its life with some weird differentiation factor going on. Motion controls were shunned by many and that may have kept some Zelda fans away as touch unfortunately did with Spirit Tracks and Phantom Hourglass. Also the Wiis weak hardware was really showing it's age and while SS did some admirable job with it by blurring stuff and such it did not have people excited about it graphically. I loved the touch zeldas and SS even though I did have the occasional annoyance with motion.
Besides I think the fact that the Wii U has always been sold with a gamepad for 1.5 years and has around a 6 million user install base makes a huge difference with what we are talking about. I follow your logic, but you are talking about add ons and peripherals that were than added later and when we are talking about the gamepad that everyone has except for some people in the future who were not interested in it and wanted a budget gimped SKU with some incompatibility. It is a whole different ball game from my perspective when you analyze the differences in the situations.
I mean how long do you think a budget SKU would have to be on sale to sell 6 million units?
It would take even longer than that because they were still selling gamepads and gamepad SKUs as well?
We are still talking about the vast majority of the user base having gamepads for the forseeable future so I don't see the problem and I disagree about the fallout this decision would have. The gamepad would never be wii speak, or motion pluse, or even the balance board. The console with the gamepad will still be the main focus and the vast majority of the user base so the issues you raise I do not think are relevant.
And all that is without even mentioning the reality that Nintendo themselves has ignored the gamepad and third parties have abandoned the system so the worst case fallout is already the current reality.
Wii Sports Resort was bundled with later iterations of the Wii. Wii Fit/Plus are very similar to Rock Band or Guitar Hero in that they have very specific hardware bundled with game itself. That can't be bundled with a console because that hardware doesn't have a wide range of functions, but a very specific one.
Also, part of the issue is that I don't think a budget SKU would sell well. The PS3 and 360 would be either cheaper or the same price, but offer far larger libraries. Maybe if Nintendo had absolutely no plans to stop ignoring the Gamepad, or they couldn't come up with any ideas, it would be worth it, because bad sales>terrible sales.
But I think I see what you are saying. If Nintendo puts out a killer app for the Gamepad, and offers both a Gamepad and Gamepadless SKU, they can still be assured that the majority of the install base has the Gamepad. They can just pick up a few extra sales from the Gamepad-less SKU.
Currently Playing: Steamworld Heist, The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask, Tales of Graces F
I follow your logic, but you are talking about add ons and peripherals that were than added later and when we are talking about the gamepad that everyone has except for some people in the future who were not interested in it and wanted a budget gimped SKU with some incompatibility. It is a whole different ball game from my perspective when you analyze the differences in the situations.
I mean how long do you think a budget SKU would have to be on sale to sell 6 million units?
It would take even longer than that because they were still selling gamepads and gamepad SKUs as well?
We are still talking about the vast majority of the user base having gamepads for the forseeable future so I don't see the problem and I disagree about the fallout this decision would have. The gamepad would never be wii speak, or motion pluse, or even the balance board. The console with the gamepad will still be the main focus and the vast majority of the user base so the issues you raise I do not think are relevant.
And all that is without even mentioning the reality that Nintendo themselves has ignored the gamepad and third parties have abandoned the system so the worst case fallout is already the current reality.
So if a GamePad-less SKU is going to be ignored by Nintendo and their games are going to require the GamePad why would they want to sell a GamePad-less SKU? Not an increased install base as it won't benefit Nintendo in the long run. Not for 3rd Parties as the GamePad isn't stopping them from developing on Wii U. The only benefit is short-term profits from the "small" number of GamePad-less SKUs they sell and maybe some short-term profits from the extra GamePad they can sell to those without it. There is no big incentive to do this. Sure it may help them sell more Smash or Kart (as those don't require the GamePad and everything else is to old to get a big boost in sales) but after that consumers without the GamePad cannot play Nintendo's future titles (as Nintendo has stated they will be focusing on using GamePad feature whether or not you have seen evidence of this is beside the point) so there is no point towards a GamePad-less SKU other than possible short-term profits
People keep saying the Xbox One doesn't have Backwards Compatibility.
I don't think they know what Backwards Compatibility means...
3DS Friend Code: 2621-2786-9784 | Nintendo Network ID: DefHalan
The rant here is about removing the GamePad because it's not a good addition.
That's why our conversation goes in circles so much, this is not at all what I have been trying to say. I personally love the gamepad even though it is under utilized.
If it's such a good addition, don't suggest it should be removed /billions of threads
Skyward Sword is the second worst selling 3D Zelda game of all time. The first is Majora's Mask. The common factor, both required peripherals.
That wasn't the only common factor. They were also both released towards the end of their consoles lifespan when people were more interested in the upcoming consoles.
I follow your logic, but you are talking about add ons and peripherals that were than added later and when we are talking about the gamepad that everyone has except for some people in the future who were not interested in it and wanted a budget gimped SKU with some incompatibility. It is a whole different ball game from my perspective when you analyze the differences in the situations.
I mean how long do you think a budget SKU would have to be on sale to sell 6 million units?
It would take even longer than that because they were still selling gamepads and gamepad SKUs as well?
We are still talking about the vast majority of the user base having gamepads for the forseeable future so I don't see the problem and I disagree about the fallout this decision would have. The gamepad would never be wii speak, or motion pluse, or even the balance board. The console with the gamepad will still be the main focus and the vast majority of the user base so the issues you raise I do not think are relevant.
And all that is without even mentioning the reality that Nintendo themselves has ignored the gamepad and third parties have abandoned the system so the worst case fallout is already the current reality.
So if a GamePad-less SKU is going to be ignored by Nintendo and their games are going to require the GamePad why would they want to sell a GamePad-less SKU? Not an increased install base as it won't benefit Nintendo in the long run. Not for 3rd Parties as the GamePad isn't stopping them from developing on Wii U. The only benefit is short-term profits from the "small" number of GamePad-less SKUs they sell and maybe some short-term profits from the extra GamePad they can sell to those without it. There is no big incentive to do this. Sure it may help them sell more Smash or Kart (as those don't require the GamePad and everything else is to old to get a big boost in sales) but after that consumers without the GamePad cannot play Nintendo's future titles (as Nintendo has stated they will be focusing on using GamePad feature whether or not you have seen evidence of this is beside the point) so there is no point towards a GamePad-less SKU other than possible short-term profits
Also, why remove a gamepad and remove the NFC device built into your console when NFC has just been announced and is already popular with Disney and Skylanders selling half-decently on Nintendo platforms?
Making the gamepad optional does not mean we will not get Nintendoland 2. The sales of Nintendoland have more to do with whether or not there is a sequel. Nintendo has sold something like 6 million gamepads to their most loyal fans....gamepad users will be the majority of the install base for a long time if not even for the life of the console. I can not imagine a no gamepad SKU completely turning the Wii U around and if it did, as I have said several times, than it is clearly something that needs to be offered sooner than later. The install base of gamepad users is going to be a larger percentage than wii motion plus was for Wii Sports resort or Skyward Sword. Nintendo is a hardware maker for this very reason, they can make the games for whatever hardware they design including add ons and such. If they can make a Wii Motion plus only AAA Zelda title then they can make some gamepad games even if they offer an optional SKU and don't have 100% gamepad adoption. They have never cared in the past and I doubt they would care in the future. Companies still make light gun games even though light guns are a rare peripheral for the other consoles.....
Making it optional does not cut down the install base of gamepads at all. It doesnt make gamepad dissapear. The install base is the install base as of now. If they make it optional they will still grow the gamepad install base especially if they can deliver compelling gamepad software. Anyone who buys a no gamepad SKU may have never bought a Wii U with a gamepad at all so it is really hard to say that offering a no gamepad SKU will harm the gamepad install base by any significant measure. Besides, selling Wii U software is the one and only thing that can turn the Wii U business around and this is a completely unrelated topic to whether or not 100% of Wii U buyers must purchase the gamepad or not.
I also think the gamepad's differentiating factor is not lost by offering an optional budget SKU with out a gamepad. The gamepad does not completely vanish. It is still a huge part of Wii U. There is a HUGE difference between offering this gimped budget option SKU and killing the gamepad off going forward. Nintendo is not going to stop supporting the gamepad or start pretending it never existed. That would be a huge mistake but that is totally different than what I am talking about.
Also, personally I am glad the gamepad was included at launch. I think the Wii U is plenty powerful enough at this time, at least for me and for the types of games I expect on a Nintendo console. Wii U games look amazing and at this point Xbone and PS4 games do not comparatively make Wii U(or Ps3/360) look ugly. I don't think there is anyway the gamepad would be what it is now if it was not launched as part of the console and I am grateful for that because I love my gamepad, I love Nintendoland, and I love Off Tv play. Yes it was definitely a bad business strategy as we have seen to this point but I love that Nintendo is out there trying to do new things and experiment with new ideas with their hardware even if they are not all commercial successes.
Skyward Sword is the second worst selling 3D Zelda game of all time. The first is Majora's Mask. The common factor, both required peripherals. And the Gamepad is much more expensive than motion plus or the expansion pack. So yes, Nintendo can make Gamepad games, but they can do so much more confidently and consistently if it's bundled in. Ever notice how few Wii games used Wii Speak and motion plus? It's because it was disincentivized, because not every Wii owner had those two things. However, nearly ever game on the Wii used motion controls, the reason is that there was a 100% assurance that every Wii owner owned a Wii remote. It's the same with the Gamepad, there is a 100% assurance that every Wii U owner has a Gamepad right now.
So, no the Gamepad won't vanish, but there will be much less incentive from within or outside of Nintendo to make games for it. The Gamepad install base is high enough that the Wii U might get some games, just like Kinect and the N64's expansion pack did, but it can't be the defining factor of the system with only a few games making full use of it. In fact that's the Wii U's entire problem right now, in terms of the gameplay it offers, it's "last-gen".
Also, I misspoke. I'm not saying the Gamepad should have launched separately, I'm saying that it was a bad direction to go in the first place. It just doesn't seem like that big an innovation to me, and from the looks of things it seems like Nintendo wanted to use it mostly for Off-TV Play and Menu screens anyway. That's not really innovation, that's just convenience. I'd much rather see Nintendo go with another innovation that does make the Wii U "next-gen" in terms of gameplay, in other words, it offers something new (not necessarily bigger worlds and particle effects, motion control was something new also). I suppose that if Nintendo really wanted to offer Off-TV Play and a secondary menu screen, the Gamepad could have been offered separately from launch, but that's a secondary issue.
Imagine what Nintendo could do with the PS4's power, taking into account how they squeeze the very last bit of power from their systems. Or alternatively, imagine if Nintendo offered a Wii remote with shake stabilization and super precise motion sensing, such that you don't have nearly as much erroneous inputs, and pointer targets can be more specific.
Sorry to resurect this but the Mario Kart 8 Bundle is kinda like a $170 Wii U. Mario Kart 8 = $60. 1 free game = $60 (Some games might be cheaper but if you are new to Wii U you will probably go for one of the more expensive titles). The Wii-Remote is $40. Lets say the Wheel is free. Subtract all that from the cost of the Bundle and you have a New Wii U that is costing the Consumer $170 by the end of everything, and this Wii U comes with the GamePad. So people should really buy this Bundle if they want a Wii U. I don't think there will ever be another Bundle that is this good of a deal.
People keep saying the Xbox One doesn't have Backwards Compatibility.
I don't think they know what Backwards Compatibility means...
3DS Friend Code: 2621-2786-9784 | Nintendo Network ID: DefHalan
Just gonna say, if the GamePad makes the Wii U not worth it, there is absolutely no reason to get a PS4 or One. None.
You can play more games and better games on the PS3 and 360. With 80 million units out for both of those consoles, they'll get support for quite some time. Also, all of the "AAA" games coming to PS4 and One are on PS3 and 360, too. On top of all of that, They're rereleasing some of the better PS3 and 360 games on PS4 and One instead of making new games to make the purchase justifyable.
Upgrading from Wii to Wii U makes sense at least. Different games and a different experience...and they didn't even sacrifice backwards compatibility.
I own a PS1, GBA, GBA SP, Wii (GCN), 360, 3DS, PC (Laptop), Wii U, and PS4.
I used to own a GBC, PS2, and DS Lite
Just gonna say, if the GamePad makes the Wii U not worth it, there is absolutely no reason to get a PS4 or One. None.
You can play more games and better games on the PS3 and 360. With 80 million units out for both of those consoles, they'll get support for quite some time. Also, all of the "AAA" games coming to PS4 and One are on PS3 and 360, too. On top of all of that, They're rereleasing some of the better PS3 and 360 games on PS4 and One instead of making new games to make the purchase justifyable.
Upgrading from Wii to Wii U makes sense at least. Different games and a different experience...and they didn't even sacrifice backwards compatibility.
I wouldn't say upgrading to any 8th gen console outside of the 3DS makes sense at this point. None of them have many, if any, games that advance past the previous generation.
And I'd say that the fact that the Wii U is a different experience is a reason not to upgrade. If I really liked the Wii, and I want an enhanced version of that experience, which I do, I don't have anywhere to go.
Currently Playing: Steamworld Heist, The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask, Tales of Graces F
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