Topic: "Acheivements" on the Wii U

It's no big deal either way. Enjoy them or ignore them.

How would a game like Toki Tori 2 be better with achievements? If it did have achievement (in the same way Xbox does) it could destroy the discovery in the game. What if Mighty Switch Force had achievements? Everyone that couldn't pass all levels under PAR would never be able to "complete" the game. Achievements can be good when used correctly and when developers want to use them in that way then go ahead but if the gameplay does not support achievements well then why should we force tacked-on achievements onto developers? I am not saying adding in an achievement list is difficult for developers, I am saying how they can destroy gameplay and I would rather not every experience have them forced in... does Minecraft really need achievements? Should they have been forced into the game on Xbox 360? Isn't better to provide the player with the tools and let them discover the different things they can do than to have an achievement list telling them how to play? Optional Achievements for developers, sure why not. Required Achievements, why require some games to destroy the sense of discovery?

@DefHalan
Toki Tori 2 would be better with achievements, for most people at least, as their accomplishments would be put into a system-wide infrastructure, which would be better structured than in-game achievement systems, which would provide more incentive for them to go back into the games, thus adding value to their purchase. The consumer wins! For the small minority that don't want to use the system, they don't win or lose, it's exactly the same for them. They are under no obligation whatsoever to use the system. They can play games just like they used to. Players don't lose their sense of discovery, as many secrets in the game could simply be hidden, or for gamers who want to discover everything themselves, they can do just that and ignore the achievements altogether.

@8BitSmurai
You say people can just ignore them and it is not a big deal. I disagree. Do you play Xbox Live? There have been far too many times where I have been affected or I have affected others enjoyment of the game due to achievements. If achievements were optional for developers then it is the best of both worlds. If you want achievements then play games that have achievements. If I don't want achievements your adivce is basically to deal with it. What is wrong with how Nintendo does it now, optional? I don't need a digital check box to prove to my friends I did something. I don't want an achievement to pop-up when I am in the middle of a boss fight for swiping my sword 1000 times. I don't want an achievement to tell me how to control a certain animal in Toki Tori 2. I don't want achievements to ruin my gameplay experience. How does not wanting these things to happen make me a bad guy? I have a different opinion than you on what makes a game fun and have higher replay value, welcome to life where everyone has a different opinion about anything... sorry if I come off mad, I have explained why I dislike achievements so many times and am constantly told to just ignore them or to deal with it.

@DefHalan
Why can people not ignore them? I'm an avid PS3 player, and played on the 360 until it RROD'd, My advice is not dealwithit, it's for you to simply not even bother looking at the achievement section at all, and just turn the notifications off (you can on PS3, not sure about X360, but they could easily add in the functionality). You will not ever have to deal with achievements, accomplish them, or even look at notifications. They are optional, those who want them get them, those who don't can ignore them. Most win, and nobody loses. Mandatory achievements on a system-wide structure would only serve to add value to the games and to the Wii U/3DS in general. Game developers already have certain standards that games have to meet to begin with (though, unfortunately, this does not stop all garbage games from appearing), and achievements would be a tiny fraction of those.

BTW, you didn't sound angry at all, so don't worry about it. I hope I didn't come off angry or rude either. We just had a respective debate on viewpoints, that's all.

I agree. I really don't see how anyone can blame Nintendo for giving free reign to developers and publishers. That's how PC's work. Freedom. I also agree it is not easy to just ignore achievements or have them even accidentally act as spoilers.

Achievments used to be great idea when ms introduced them on 360. But the trouble is they encourage cheating, and while offline achievments only effected the player online achievments effected everyone. Even if people are not cheating I lost track of how many times my online experience was ruined by most of those supposedly on my team only interested in doing 'x' thing 'x' amount times to get 'x' achievment.
Not to mention how publishers managed to twist earning of achievments into a marketing tool, In the end meaning most achievments were no where near an achievment to get... and for the few games that do include a challenging achievment more often then not people will moan and call for the game to be patched.
I'm not for or against achievments, they can have plus points like encourage you to explore more of the gameplay mechanics that are outside the norm, but achievments arn't essential to a game.
I think those that moan about No achievments on WiiU are mostly younger gamers only really getting into gaming the past 7/8 years to be fair and I'm guessing they never really known about playing games for little more than personal enjoyment, and satisfaction.

I don't really care for achievements at all. If they eventually do add them, I really hope that the achievements are.. actual achievements. All those meaningless achievements are annoying, and nothing else. For example, having 10 achievements for progressing through the story. One for completion is fine, ten is not.

What I mostly dislike about achievements, are that 90% of them are things you just get by playing normally, and the last 10% are time consuming and nothing more. I'd wish that you got next to none for playing normally, and only got them for added challenges. For example "Do X without utilizing Y", as in beating a boss without using the item you're supposed to use against it, thus making it much harder.

I am curious, what is so bad about how Nintendo does it now, with having optional game based achievements?

The problem is not so much as whether they are optional or not, they problem is more that there is no console-wide achievement system in the first place. Personally, though, I see no problem with mandatory achievements. They only add value to games and to the console as a whole, and they add only a very, very, very, very small challenge for game developers. But as previously mentioned, the problem is more of than of, well, not having a system in the first place.

Edit: Double posted accidentally, deleted it, sorry.

But why is it a problem that Nintendo doesn't have system wide mandatory achievements?

Wait, wait wait. We were actually having a mildly constructive, respectful debate there. Why have we gone back to square one? The answer lies in my very first posts in this thread. Not trying to be rude, but why are we back on this?

Edit: Well, I said pretty much everything I had to say, anything else I post would pretty much end up being just a repeat. Sorry if anything came off as rude or snarky, if it did it definitely wasn't on purpose. Just a respectful debate.

I agree with Miyamoto in his opinion that an 'Achievement' system for Nintendo consoles would only serve to devalue the software itself. People should want to play a videogame based on its own merits, and not some arbitrary, willy-waving, points system.

With that said though, we've already seen the 'Accomplishment' system for the Streetpass Mii app on 3DS, so maybe an extension to regular Nintendo games isn't such a far-fetched idea.

Either way, I don't care one way or another.

I don't see where he says it is a problem... he just says that he would like to see an achievement system. What is the problem with how Nintendo does it currently?

For me i like trophies, it does not take anything away from the game, if anything it adds replay value. When i by a game i don't even think about trophies or try and get them, it's not like thay are going anywhere. So when i've finished a game i may go back to try and get some, or a may move onto my next game. But seeing as i don't sell my game's i can always go back to a game, in some cases the game is years old, i have some games which don't have trophies. Because the game came out before the trophy system. Now the PS3 has a option where you can trun off the trophy ping, i started to use that until i choose and get the trophies.

Forgot to add for the people who say trophies destroy a game, that is a load of BS it's optional it's doesn't make a difference if you collect the trophies or not, but it does add replay value for a game already completed.

Mostly due to everyone else having it done. If I have to choose between a Wii U or 360/One version i'll probably pick the Latter for the achievements among other things.

I provided official links and explanations for why an "achievement" system will never happen on Wii U.

/thread

Ya, but their alternative is play coins. It's not only a matter of what is done, but HOW it's done. Play coins are Nintendo's form of reward for using the 3DS as of now.

Many people are fine with that, and actually prefer it that way.
Xbox One or PS Vita doesn't have play coins, so they are "behind"... Like we actually care.

@DefHalan What if you can turn off the trophy pop ups like you can on PS3 now? Then how can it ruin things for you?

It isn't the pop-up that bothers me, it is the way achievements are used. From what I am seeing PS3 players don't have as big of a problem as Xbox 360 players, maybe that is a key?