People have their rose-tinted goggles on when it comes to how poorly designed NES games were when it came to difficulty. NES games were hard back then, but that's because many games were cheap in terms of difficulty and many playable characters were very limited in their ability to deal with threats coming at them. Does anyone think a game like Zelda II was even designed well when it comes to difficulty? Or how about the obsession game developers had with respawning enemies the second you scrolled the screen an inch? Or the fact that a character with limited mobility was often forced to contend with pixel-perfect jumps, flying enemies, and if the game developers were feeling evil, weather effects.
8-bit games are a poor example of how difficulty should be in a video game. During the NES era, many of your major third-party developers were switching over from being Arcade developers to home console developers, and this era reflects that. Pointless and often cheap difficulty that would fly in an arcade, but becomes a serious issue when it comes to a home game.
Yes, you can improve with practice. But I consider the 16-bit era a far better example when it comes to difficulty in games.
By the time the Genesis and SNES came around, developers had finally come to grips as to how to create challenging games, without being cheap about it. You had games like the 16-bit Castlevania and Contra games give more options to the playable characters, while still making the games difficult. 16-bit games can be hard, but they avoid that cheap feeling that so many NES games brought to the table.
People have their rose-tinted goggles on when it comes to how poorly designed NES games were when it came to difficulty. NES games were hard back then, but that's because many games were cheap in terms of difficulty and many playable characters were very limited in their ability to deal with threats coming at them. Does anyone think a game like Zelda II was even designed well when it comes to difficulty? Or how about the obsession game developers had with respawning enemies the second you scrolled the screen an inch? Or the fact that a character with limited mobility was often forced to contend with pixel-perfect jumps, flying enemies, and if the game developers were feeling evil, weather effects.
8-bit games are a poor example of how difficulty should be in a video game. During the NES era, many of your major third-party developers were switching over from being Arcade developers to home console developers, and this era reflects that. Pointless and often cheap difficulty that would fly in an arcade, but becomes a serious issue when it comes to a home game.
Yes, you can improve with practice. But I consider the 16-bit era a far better example when it comes to difficulty in games.
By the time the Genesis and SNES came around, developers had finally come to grips as to how to create challenging games, without being cheap about it. You had games like the 16-bit Castlevania and Contra games give more options to the playable characters, while still making the games difficult. 16-bit games can be hard, but they avoid that cheap feeling that so many NES games brought to the table.
This is the truth. I do think the difficulty of 8-Bit games is generally exaggerated, and I do love the games (I'm the 8-Bit Samurai for crying out loud), but this is still the truth.
My son is 10 and thankfully he is now starting to like challenging games. My VC collection on the 3DS I handed down actually gets a fair amount of play. I rarely play games with him, I don't play well with others, but when I do he is a competent gamer. He has become proud of any score he beats or if he surpasses how far I have got in a game, which promptly forces me to outdo what ever he was playing. I think this in itself leads to better gaming, and striving to be better in life or your career. I will admit, I do enjoy some of the more relaxing games these days as well, but nothing beats the feeling of "just one more go!".
kids today aren't worse then you. They don't go arround looking down on people who aren't as skilled as they are for one.
at waveboy why don't you buy a game like say pokemon and play it like this:As soon as you take any damage in the game you have to delete your save file and start over again.
That's the only reason those "classsic" games are hard they made you repeat areas of the game you already beat.
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We sucked, sure, but we got better. Why? Because there were actual consequences when you died unlike todays games such as the New Super Mario Bros sequels(for ex) where 'game over' doesn't mean a thing.
Last time I got a Game Over in New Super Mario Bros Wii I had to redo the entire world...
We sucked, sure, but we got better. Why? Because there were actual consequences when you died unlike todays games such as the New Super Mario Bros sequels(for ex) where 'game over' doesn't mean a thing.
Last time I got a Game Over in New Super Mario Bros Wii I had to redo the entire world...
New Super Mario Bros Wii actually has a "Game Over" screen? Could have fooled me.
Buddy, I'll have you know that I beat the original Ninja Gaiden and Mega Man. See? Not ALL of us are bad at games.
I'm really running out of ideas for my signature.
I've got the power! The Hidden Power!
I used to run on blast processing. Now I'm 64-bit.
Currently playing: ARK: Survival Evolved, Splatoon I AM STILL NEAR-PERFECT!!!
Look at controllers now. With NES, you had a D-pad, A, B, Start, and Select. That's it. Now, a controller has a D-pad, two thumbsticks, a face pad, two shoulder buttons, and the thumbsticks click as well. And then there's the Wii U, which has even more inputs.
Kids aren't worse; they're just as good. Games are just more complicated now.
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i dunno, most of those people are probably trying to make unfunny transformer parody animations nowadays (either professionally or otherwise) and i'm probably better at ninja gaiden or castlevania than most of them, so i clearly have the advantage here (per usual)
granted i did grow up with an nes but i never beat any of the games when i had it beyond the easiest stuff
Look at controllers now. With NES, you had a D-pad, A, B, Start, and Select. That's it. Now, a controller has a D-pad, two thumbsticks, a face pad, two shoulder buttons, and the thumbsticks click as well. And then there's the Wii U, which has even more inputs.
Kids aren't worse; they're just as good. Games are just more complicated now.
it doesn't change the fact I hear kids nowadays making dumb comments like "I wish they'd make an item that turns me invincible", "why don't they let me buy more lives?", "I wish I could download a cheat to beat the game instantly" all the time.....
note: by "kids nowadays" I mean kids under 13 yo, so if you're a teenager or a young adult(like me) don't take offense(unless you spouted those words well, at least the third phrase, that one goes against the very principle of playing games)
goodbyes are a sad part of life but for every end there's a new beggining so one must never stop looking forward to the next dawn
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I'm really running out of ideas for my signature.
I've got the power! The Hidden Power!
I used to run on blast processing. Now I'm 64-bit.
Currently playing: ARK: Survival Evolved, Splatoon I AM STILL NEAR-PERFECT!!!
@UnknownNico maybe I've been around a place with lots of lazy kids for too long.
goodbyes are a sad part of life but for every end there's a new beggining so one must never stop looking forward to the next dawn
now working at IBM as helpdesk analyst my Backloggery
3DS Friend Code: 3995-7085-4333 | Nintendo Network ID: GustavoSF
I'm really running out of ideas for my signature.
I've got the power! The Hidden Power!
I used to run on blast processing. Now I'm 64-bit.
Currently playing: ARK: Survival Evolved, Splatoon I AM STILL NEAR-PERFECT!!!
kids today aren't worse then you. They don't go arround looking down on people who aren't as skilled as they are for one.
at waveboy why don't you buy a game like say pokemon and play it like this:As soon as you take any damage in the game you have to delete your save file and start over again.
That's the only reason those "classsic" games are hard they made you repeat areas of the game you already beat.
Classic Games had the mechanic of you never could get lucky enough to get the next point where you can use a continue. (Or they didn't have them.
Then the next level could assume a certain level of skill. (Because in beating the last one you must have it).
Another thing is reviewers (As a whole) don't like hard games because they are not willing to put in the effort required and trying to blast through a hard game without replaying stuff to improve is no fun at all. (Ends up just memorising super small sections and trying to string them together instead of just playing it normally).
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kids today aren't worse then you. They don't go arround looking down on people who aren't as skilled as they are for one.
at waveboy why don't you buy a game like say pokemon and play it like this:As soon as you take any damage in the game you have to delete your save file and start over again.
That's the only reason those "classsic" games are hard they made you repeat areas of the game you already beat.
Classic Games had the mechanic of you never could get lucky enough to get the next point where you can use a continue. (Or they didn't have them.
Then the next level could assume a certain level of skill. (Because in beating the last one you must have it).
Another thing is reviewers (As a whole) don't like hard games because they are not willing to put in the effort required and trying to blast through a hard game without replaying stuff to improve is no fun at all. (Ends up just memorising super small sections and trying to string them together instead of just playing it normally).
A lot of that unluckiness came in the form of surprise attacks from off-screen enemies, and other cheap tricks. Most of the 'skill' was simple trial and error, and memorizing where the game threw such curve balls at you.
As for reviewers, unlike us, they also happen to have deadlines to meet. As much as they might like to, they likely don't have time to play every game the 'right' way.
People have their rose-tinted goggles on when it comes to how poorly designed NES games were when it came to difficulty. NES games were hard back then, but that's because many games were cheap in terms of difficulty and many playable characters were very limited in their ability to deal with threats coming at them. Does anyone think a game like Zelda II was even designed well when it comes to difficulty? Or how about the obsession game developers had with respawning enemies the second you scrolled the screen an inch? Or the fact that a character with limited mobility was often forced to contend with pixel-perfect jumps, flying enemies, and if the game developers were feeling evil, weather effects.
8-bit games are a poor example of how difficulty should be in a video game. During the NES era, many of your major third-party developers were switching over from being Arcade developers to home console developers, and this era reflects that. Pointless and often cheap difficulty that would fly in an arcade, but becomes a serious issue when it comes to a home game.
Yes, you can improve with practice. But I consider the 16-bit era a far better example when it comes to difficulty in games.
By the time the Genesis and SNES came around, developers had finally come to grips as to how to create challenging games, without being cheap about it. You had games like the 16-bit Castlevania and Contra games give more options to the playable characters, while still making the games difficult. 16-bit games can be hard, but they avoid that cheap feeling that so many NES games brought to the table.
Mega Man 9 & 10(although technically a new NES release), castlevania I & III, Ninja Gaiden II & III, contra, Adventure Island(ect ect) were brutally diffiicult, but they were fair game. There's absolutely nothing about these games that were cheap or poorly designed, blame the player not the game. I know there are exceptions, like TMNT....with respawning glitchy enemies, poorly designed stages and what have you, but this wasn't always the case.
Castlevania 1 & 3, while I do like them quite a bit, absolutely had some cheaply designed difficulty. The controls can be extremely stiff, and touching any enemy will knock you back far, very often to your doom. The Ninja Gaiden trilogy also had major problems with cheap, respawning and glitchy enemies IIRC. III barely even had any continues.
What? But that's the design of the game. Your character gets hit and he takes a fall back(same deal with ninja gaiden). It's not random, the player should be fully aware that when he or she gets hit this is what's going to happen as to why it's almost important to plan ahead. The Stiff controls and Uncontrollable jumping when in the air are also part of what makes castlevania 'castlevania' these distinct traits separate many NES platformers from one another and make them feel like different experiences. If there's a way to dodge something(ect ect) it's not cheap or poorly designed. Having to take hits in order to progress IS the definition of cheap and poorly made.
It's a shame that most SNES games never carried over the strong difficulty of the NES-era.....I'm a masochistic gamer, I'm a beast, i yern for that sense of mastery and reward.
Oh and as for Gaiden, I finished all 3 and to be honest, only the original was cheap....with one section, that was towards the end of the game involving respawning birds and that one witch. Otherwise, again, all fair game. Things can be avoided, mastered, what have you. I've beaten the original twice, and finished the two sequels. and to be honest, i found III to be the most challenging...And it's not because of the limited continues, the stages/enemy layout themselves had required serious precision and thinking.
I like you Wave, I really do, but I don't know if there's any arguing with all of this nostalgia. Bad controls don't make a series "unique". Look at Rondo of Blood, SC IV, both vastly superior games to the (still solid) NES games, largely due to improved difficulty and the (not perfect yet, but still much more fluent) controls. It's not a fair challenge if it's because of lousy controls, nor are the insane glitchiness, and enemies respawning every time you move the screen 2 pixels of the NG trilogy a fair challenge.
I think most of the NES cheapness was relegated to the clunkers and bad developers who wanted to lengthen their games TBH, but I'm not defending the insane difficulty of something like NG. If you got your way and every game released from this point was as difficult as the NES's hardest games, probably 9/10 of the market would just stop buying games. Yes, you can get better if you spend hours mastering every nuance of a game, but how many people want to spend a long day at work or school and then get brutalized by every game in their collection? There's certainly a place for hard games (Not cheap, not impossibly hard), but those should be the minority IMO.
The Ninja Gaiden trilogy also had major problems with cheap, respawning and glitchy enemies IIRC. III barely even had any continues.
That is a localization issue. The Japanese version of III had unlimited continues (and even passwords) but Tecmo thought Americans wanted games that kicked their butts.
The Ninja Gaiden trilogy also had major problems with cheap, respawning and glitchy enemies IIRC. III barely even had any continues.
That is a localization issue. The Japanese version of III had unlimited continues (and even passwords) but Tecmo thought Americans wanted games that kicked their butts.
Weird. Some publishers thought America needed their difficulty dumb downed, and some thought we needed the games harder.
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Topic: Why were kids in the 80s so good at playing games while kids today are so poor?
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