Topic: Problems with Indie games.

Ok I've played quite a lot of these Indie games and I just don't wanna try to get myself into them anymore due to them either being completely empty or just ridiculous. There are some problems these indie games tend to have.

1.The aesthetic style seems to go too much on retro pixel art. Now don't get me wrong, I love pixel art and I really wish Nintendo gets back to pixel art but there are just times where the pixel art in these indie games that are just plain and nothing special with the exception of some games like Shovel Knight. Now its true that there are some that actually have a great artstyle like Teslagrad but thest games are few and far between.

2. The challenge in this is just either fair like Shovel Knight or just plain ridiculous like Teslagrad. What's the point of not having a health bar in Teslagrad and to start the whole section over and over again? Its just plain stupid if you ask me. Atleast in Limbo, the challenge was to solve the puzzle and not face bosses but in Teslagrad, not only is it a chore to do a level section all over again but to face a boss over again because of just one little pixel touch the enemy gives you. Because of this, the learning curve is not very appropriate and can often lead to frustration. No hints on where the goodies are is another problem most indie games have like Shovel Knight. In that game, you can figure out which level you got the music sheet from and as such you're clueless to hunt them in that same level over and over again unnecessarily.

3. Finally we have the amount of content you get for most of these games. Now I can understand that some games that are priced around 9$ are fair enough that I won't get angry about. But in the case of games like Shovel Knight that's 15$, you're really not getting much of content at all. Of course Shovel Knight does have DLC coming but for most of the time, replay value is either low or is something that isn't worth getting into.

I know a lot will disagree with what I have to say something but I don't even know if we can call these guys indie anymore. I mean, what's the point of calling yourself an indie if you have a staff that help make your games a reality?

You're giving up on all indie games because you found that a couple of them weren't for you? Yeah, that's your choice but one that severely limits your options. First of all, yes, it is true that loads of indie games use pixel art, but as someone who really loves pixel art I can tell you that simply using it doesn't take away from a possibly unique aesthetic, and quite often creates one that doesn't age horribly.

Some times it is used out of laziness and is badly made; as is obvious to the player - case in point: Dead Pixels

...but sometimes it ends up still looking better than quite a few high profile releases (Eg. Heart Forth, Alicia)

As for 'unfair difficulty' and a perceived lack of content for the price; what well received indie games have you played that actually had these problems? Also; surely the fact that Shovel Knight is so popular is a testament to just how well the game is made, as it is loved despite not being too long of an experience. You just need to know where to look, and actually find good indie games that are right for you.

With all of that said; here are a list of some great indie games that don't have pixel art, have plenty of content to justify the price, and don't have unfair difficulty (at least in my eyes) - just in case you see anything you like. Granted they're all for PC, but that's only because its the main platform I play on.

• Awesomenauts
• Amnesia: The Dark Descent
• Don't Starve
• Magicka
• Steamworld Dig
• Legend of Grimrock

Have a staff? Indie never meant one guy. There are indie games that aren't really hard. They don't all use pixel art that has nothing special about it. (Be it special pixel art or not using pixel art). You seem to be shutting out a lot of games because if one or two you didn't like, just do your research first and you'll be fine.

@Jaz007 @Geonjaha

Its not just one or two that made me stop playing indie games. Its the matter of rehasing the same style of gameplay. What's the reason of not having health in Teslagrad. Look Like I said, I love pixel art and I got nothing against that as long as its visually appealing like Hearth Forth.

I find that surprising given how many unique experiences Indie games can offer. All of the games I mentioned are pretty unique in gameplay. If you want more proof that indie games can be like that, look at games like Papers, Please or FTL: Faster than Light.

@Artwark To a certain extent, I can relate to your issues with the indie scene. Pixel style is becoming so abundant that it turns into a standard for almost anything indie. And quite a few indie developers just try to jump on trains instead of coming up with new ideas. Shovel Knight, on the other hand, doesn't simply use pixel-style for an artificial retro-gasm, but is designed just like an old NES game, including many of the old design choices (like not explaining anything). This doesn't appeal to everyone, but is a deliberate design choice.
Difficulty, however, is a hard thing to judge, since it can be very subjective. Teslagrad is a very puzzle-centric game that demands players to think carefully before they act, and a health bar of sorts would encourage blind trial-and-error approaches, which is what the team behind it wanted to avoid at all cost. Of course, that makes the game quite frustrating at times, and it certainly doesn't feel good to be stuck at the same spot, even after hundreds of attempts. But that mostly means you haven't fully figured out how to do it, that you're still missing something.

In general, the indie scene is starting to degenerate, though. Blatant ripoffs, lazy pixel-fests, and the ever-present 'metroidvania' style are prominent examples of how effortlessly some folks try to sell their stuff to the ever-so-gullible average indie admirer. And it's quite sad to see that happen, since the difference between stylish design and lazy graphics is narrowing down slowly.

New styles of gameplay? Octodad and Dont't Starve offer completely different gameplay than the indie games you speak of. Those aren't the only ones too. As I said, just do your research first. It sounds like the problem you have the first place is lack of research too.

Some are crap and some are amazing that's all there's to it.But don't give up on the Indie scene just because you bought some bad ones.

Why not just shop for those games like any other instead of lumping them all as "indie games"?

To me, Teslagrad makes perfect sense with their treatment of the health system. You never have to go back very long if you fail, and once you've figured out how to approach a certain area, it becomes quite easy. And no boss I've encountered in Teslagrad yet has been harder than the bosses in DK: Tropical Freeze.

The only criticism that seems legitimate to me is that indie games use too much pixel art. And the vast majority are in 2D.

Don't agree with the rest at all. There's a great variety of gameplay types and difficulties and a lot of them are excellent value for money. The 3DS is still quite poor for indies though. Which is why you need a Vita too.

@jariw tropical freeze has health with powerups so the difficulty is fair in that regard. But for Teslagrad, if you screw up even one pixel bit, you have to go through that section over again and while the bosses are understandable, the puzzle solving isn't. Because those magnets don't properly push/pull you at times.

I have had my fingers burnt with about 1 in 3 indie games but the rest have been good and I am beginning to feel like I'm amassing a large list of indies that I should buy on Wii U.

All of your points are true for some games but the selection is pretty large and diverse now.

The thing with "pixel art" is quickly explained:
1. Its easier to make and its easier to run. Even for 3D modeling, you need to be able to draw conceptional art and thus, you already have the necessary skill to do pixel art, while 3D modeling requires another skill set. And with 3D rendering, theres always the issue with hardware. Its easy for bigger studios to craft interchangeable assets for many different systems / settings but for one man crews, its daunting enough to create all needed assets to begin with. And 2D sprites pretty much run on every system, so its make a game, then decide on what system youre going to release it.

2. Pressure from the community. In most communitys, you cant argue against pixel art, because youre immediatly flamed for "not knowing what nostalgia means". This "Retro style" is simply unassailable. If you decide to make a 3D game, youre automatically compared to every other game out there in the graphics department. If your game doesnt feature textures takes with a reflex camera, runs at a constant 100fps with a 4k resoluton, its simply labeled as "ugly" by most people. And indie devs, especially with their first game, need to reach quite a lot of people to get properly started. It either need to become an internet phenomenon or simply needs to look "Perfect"

I personally have nothing against indie games whatsoever. I also dont hail them as the socond comming either. I rate games equal, no matter if they are from a big or small dev team.

@Einherjar

I agree a lot with this explanation.

I think indie games are o.k, I'm cheap so I would only buy them on sale, that's why I don't buy them on Nintendo consoels becasue Nintendo never has good sales but your opinion of game changes greatly depending on whether you paid 0.99 or 9.99.... I also really like Gunman Clive, that game started at the price its supposed to be 1.99 and its a excellent value for money.... most developers however prefer to start with the game overpriced and then take some time to drop the price to what the game is actually worth (AAA developers do the same thing, except again, Nintendo who keeps their games overpriced permanently)

I have no problems with indie games - I like Gunhound EX / Astebreed and Transistor as much as anything I have played this year. (Which includes all the Wii U games I was interested in).

I also like Gunlord (enough to buy it for the Dreamcast for €35 anyway). It is annoying because I don't have the means to keep my Dreamcast permanently connected so it is annoying messing around.

I don't object to paying the full price for indie games I end up playing a decent amount of. The problem is it is rarely the ones I think it is going to be. (So I use the buy loads cheaply method. The ones I am pretty sure about straight away or in genres that get very little made).

I'm not a fan of the 8bit aesthetic. It stems entirely from the fact that i spent most of my childhood on the SNES. But I wish they would make more 16bit games rather than 8 bit.

@Artwark Your reasoning seems a bit off. There is a huge offer on the indie scene and you obviously need to sort out the average from the horribly bad from the hidden gems.

@Einherjar doubtful about pixel art being easy. Its very difficult to draw the characters pixel by pixel. One pixel makes a huge difference in the overall structure. I thought it was simple too but it actually isn't and I just don't understand why is it so.

Look I'm not saying indie games are bad and like I said, there are some I love like Cave Story. The problem is of the depth they focus on. Like why is the story silent in most of these indie games? Why is the game feel not like what you'd expect from a game and thus confusing yourself whether you like it or not?