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Topic: Does the Platforming Genre Need a Shake Up?

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Bolt_Strike

CanisWolfred wrote:

Bolt_Strike wrote:

CanisWolfred wrote:

@Bolt_Strike Okay, just we're entirely clear: Are we talking specifically about Nintendo platformers in this topic, and/or tangent? Or the genre as a whole in recent years?

The genre as a whole, but I'm much more familiar with Nintendo platformers.

...Okay, I just wanted to be clear. Then I go back to my first statement: I think you outta spend a lot more time branching out. Honestly, I don't feel like Nintendo's platformers are a good representation of the genre anymore, and haven't for at least a decade. That isn't to say you'll wind up with a completely different take on things by playing some off-brand games, but if nothing else, I think discussing exactly what needs to change and/or improve would be a lot easier once you've had a more broad experience in the genre you're discussing. I know I went through that a lot as a teenager.

This is a concept problem, not an experience problem. Playing more platformers won't really help.

Bolt_Strike

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CanisWolfred

@Bolt_Strike How else does one come to understand a concept, without a healthy amount of experience to guide him?

...That's a legit question. Experience is a *****. I could use a workaround...

Edited on by CanisWolfred

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Bolt_Strike

CanisWolfred wrote:

@Bolt_Strike How else does one come to understand a concept, without a healthy amount of experience to guide him?

...That's a legit question. Experience is a *****. I could use a workaround...

You know, basic logic. If you can't explain the appeal of your game in a 30 second elevator speech, it's probably not a good idea to begin with.

Bolt_Strike

Switch Friend Code: SW-5621-4055-5722 | 3DS Friend Code: 4725-8075-8961 | Nintendo Network ID: Bolt_Strike

CanisWolfred

Bolt_Strike wrote:

CanisWolfred wrote:

@Bolt_Strike How else does one come to understand a concept, without a healthy amount of experience to guide him?

...That's a legit question. Experience is a *****. I could use a workaround...

You know, basic logic. If you can't explain the appeal of your game in a 30 second elevator speech, it's probably not a good idea to begin with.

...that's...we're done. I can't deal with that type of attitude.

Edited on by CanisWolfred

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NinChocolate

I'd personally like to see more sidescrolling fighter-platformers like Guacamelee

NinChocolate

shaneoh

Bolt_Strike wrote:

CanisWolfred wrote:

@Bolt_Strike How else does one come to understand a concept, without a healthy amount of experience to guide him?

...That's a legit question. Experience is a *****. I could use a workaround...

You know, basic logic. If you can't explain the appeal of your game in a 30 second elevator speech, it's probably not a good idea to begin with.

If the appeal of a game can be adequately described in thirty seconds, then I think it would be a very shallow game. Particularly when it comes to RPGs. Hell, anyone describing the appeal of Dwarf Fortress in less than thirty seconds, isn't doing the game justice.

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Bolt_Strike

shaneoh wrote:

If the appeal of a game can be adequately described in thirty seconds, then I think it would be a very shallow game. Particularly when it comes to RPGs. Hell, anyone describing the appeal of Dwarf Fortress in less than thirty seconds, isn't doing the game justice.

The core concept? The core concept can easily be described in 30 seconds, if you can't do that, it's usually too complicated for a mainstream audience to understand (and therefore won't have mainstream appeal). Sure it might take longer to elaborate on some of the details, but the core concept of the game is easy to explain.

Bolt_Strike

Switch Friend Code: SW-5621-4055-5722 | 3DS Friend Code: 4725-8075-8961 | Nintendo Network ID: Bolt_Strike

kkslider5552000

Yes and no. For the most part, I'm not sure that's really true in terms of quality. Especially with the eleventy billion games you can get on Steam, if you want something new and impressive for a platformer, I'm certain you'll find it if you look hard enough.

But in terms of something that actually gets attention...yeah. Maybe this will change soon but I feel like the retro indie-riffic/post Little Big Planet co-op platformer revival is somewhat dead. Not entirely considering the Ratchet and Clank remake did shockingly well and Mario and Sonic will sell forever (not to mention Yooka Laylee could bring some renewed interested beyond...the one game called Yooka Laylee), but it isn't like the late Wii era where game companies would seeming to give platformers a chance again. And at this point, it's sort of a joke that indie games will consist of a lot of retro 2d platformers. doing the same thing forever. I mean, the most I heard about a platformer this year was Might No. 9. I wouldn't consider that a good sign.

I feel like the last 2 years have belonged to weird, cute artsy indie platformers more than anything really. Think the last mainstream one that felt like it actually mattered was 3D World, and even then it obviously didn't matter as much as the Mario Galaxy games (or even some of the NSMB games).

But from where I'm looking at, with my increasing disinterest in buying games near release and an increasingly indie collection, my two favorite games of the 3 or so years (Shovel Knight and Rayman Legends) were in fact platformers so there's that at the very least.

Edited on by kkslider5552000

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skywake

Bolt_Strike wrote:

You know, basic logic. If you can't explain the appeal of your game in a 30 second elevator speech, it's probably not a good idea to begin with.

Super Mario Maker: You can make and share your own Mario levels online. The transition between creating and playing is quick and audience feedback is solid.

Super Mario 3D Land: The bite-sized linear progression of a 2D Mario game in a 3D environment. Enhanced by the depth perception given by the 3D effect on the 3DS.

Super Mario 3D World: You know how in New SMB Wii the multiplayer aspect was a bit broken because everyone was always bouncing off each other? Well this is that but in a 3D space so players aren't always in each others space.

Shovel Knight: It's an entirely new IP that borrows heavily from those NES classics but without the limitations of a typical NES game.

New SMB: You know how Nintendo hasn't made a 2D Mario in ages? Well yeah, here's a 2D Mario. If it does well we'll make more of them

Super Mario Galaxy: 3D games always have this issue with the camera. We solved that issue by making the game exist mostly on spheres. And if it's on spheres why not set it in space?

Edited on by skywake

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Bolt_Strike

skywake wrote:

Bolt_Strike wrote:

You know, basic logic. If you can't explain the appeal of your game in a 30 second elevator speech, it's probably not a good idea to begin with.

Super Mario Maker: You can make and share your own Mario levels online. The transition between creating and playing is quick and audience feedback is solid.

Super Mario 3D Land: The bite-sized linear progression of a 2D Mario game in a 3D environment. Enhanced by the depth perception given by the 3D effect on the 3DS.

Super Mario 3D World: You know how in New SMB Wii the multiplayer aspect was a bit broken because everyone was always bouncing off each other? Well this is that but in a 3D space so players aren't always in each others space.

Shovel Knight: It's an entirely new IP that borrows heavily from those NES classics but without the limitations of a typical NES game.

New SMB: You know how Nintendo hasn't made a 2D Mario in ages? Well yeah, here's a 2D Mario. If it does well we'll make more of them

Super Mario Galaxy: 3D games always have this issue with the camera. We solved that issue by making the game exist mostly on spheres. And if it's on spheres why not set it in space?

Exactly, and you can evaluate whether or not it'll be interesting based on that. Is creating levels an interesting idea? Do you think co-op in a 3D game is different enough from past experiences?

Bolt_Strike

Switch Friend Code: SW-5621-4055-5722 | 3DS Friend Code: 4725-8075-8961 | Nintendo Network ID: Bolt_Strike

CanisWolfred

I just look at the trailers and Gameplay footage to decide whether or not I'd enjoy it. They can the best elevator pitch they want, but it won't mean jack squat if they don't do anything with their idea. It's like how Braid was so well lauded, and certainly sounded interesting on paper, but I could not have found a more clunky, overwrought, and pointlessly frustrating platformer if I tried. Excecution is what matters most, at the end of the day, and that's where I have to say that: No, I don't think the very concept of the platformer needs shaking up. They've already got the basics down to a "T", and I'm not looking forward to the years of trials & tribulation before they get whatever new idea to be even half as polished as the games we're seeing nowadays.

Edited on by CanisWolfred

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skywake

Bolt_Strike wrote:

Exactly, and you can evaluate whether or not it'll be interesting based on that. Is creating levels an interesting idea? Do you think co-op in a 3D game is different enough from past experiences?

Yes, and that was kinda my point.

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"Don't stir the pot" is a nice way of saying "they're too dumb to reason with"

rallydefault

Honestly, this is one area where I think Indies are doing more harm than good for the industry. I feel like every other Indie game that has come out in the last 5 or so years has been yet another platformer, with some kind of slightly different mechanic.

Super Meat Boy, Super Time Force (or something close to that), Rygar, Shovel Knight, Spelunky, Fez, Broforce, Roguelight (and ALL of its gosh-darned knock offs) ... and that's just off the top of my head.

It's probably just me, but this avalanche of samey platformers has pretty much killed my taste for them in the last couple years. I can't stomach them anymore. I probably would have loved Mario Maker a lot more if I hadn't spent the previous 6 months being flooded with Roguelikes on my Xbox and Steam feeds.

And yes, you say, "Well just don't play them." I don't anymore. After like the first six lol

Edited on by rallydefault

rallydefault

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