Switch Could Enjoy An Extended Lifespan And Even Outsell The Nintendo Wii, Claim Analysts

I don’t want or need a new console, Switch is amazing and there’s loads of software to keep people going for years. I’m not sure why there’s this massive obsession with wanting constantly higher spec consoles.

@Rodan2000
Thats always been part of gaming from the word go.
From the 2600 to, here is the Nes, it's better !
To this is the Super Nintendo, its SUPER.
And the N64.
It has 64 bits and is 3D !!!

Bigger and newer is always better , that's just how it is
Personally i am pretty happy with the NX too.

Still going to need that PS5. I am good if get around seven years per console. That will take my Switch to 2024. I can definitely live with that.

@Rodan2000 Because I like beautiful things.

I put zero stock in what analysts say whether it be positive or negative.

I think if Nintendo were to launch a tv-tethered console a few years down the road, which is what SOME consider a PROPER console, then the Switch could likely live on as their handheld-on-the-side for quite a few years.

Well the wiiu death of Nintendo threat is decidedly over. Now it's on Nintendo to capitalise on their market position and grow out the future customer base, time for studio acquisitions and some new ip launches.

Nintendo are in a position to be experimental and create some brand new franchises to develop customer loyalty moving forward across the install base.

More sales would be guaranteed if Nintendo released some more of their existing franchise’s like F Zero Metroid Donkey Kong and also made more SNES games available for the online service or maybe they are playing the long game waiting to release stuff like that when the sales start to dip

@Rodan2000

well by your logic we all should of stuck with older consoles snes, ps1 etc and not moved on, hell by your logic the switch should not exist!

love my switch and hope it has a long life but also wish they would bring a pro version out

@suikoden completely misunderstood my comment which is entirely my personal opinion

@Pod,

I doubt Nintendo will ever release a stand alone dedicated home console, they have found the perfect formula with the Switch, and with mobile chips getting more powerful they can just keep upgrading as time goes on.

@Gs69,

The last two F-zero games sold only 1 and 1.5 million copies, so they are niche titles at best, of course if there was a F-Zero game on the Switch it would have the potential to be the best selling 3-D version of the game.

Nintendo would be far better off producing a new Mario kart game asap.

@johnvboy
That certainly is what I am expecting to happen as well.

But with Nintendo, we just never know what the next thing they come up with could be. If it's something that ( for some reason ) is big, heavy, or otherwise difficult to move around, unrelated to its processing power, tethering it to the livingroom might suddenly make sense again.

@johnvboy yeah I would love a new Mario kart but I always thought F Zero was a better seller than that maybe it won’t sell many consoles then but personally I would love a new version for the switch or just give me GameCube games for switch online I would be very happy with F Zero gx

It'll be interesting to see how Switch fares once PS5 releases. I expect many of the "miracle" ports will dry up at that point. They really should be thinking Switch 2 by 2022, with full backwards compatibility including bringing your digital game library forward. But I dream...

@Rodan2000
No people would rather destroy the planet by constantly upgrading with little to no change with the products.

@NoxAeturnus

I think most people will relegate it to the mobile machine.
Most numbers seem to suggest, it's a primary portable console for most NX owners anyway.
Myself included

Man I want a new 1080 Snowboarding game.

@KitsuneNight But the graphics continually got better with each new generation in those days. Now, most people probably couldn’t tell the difference between a Wii game, a Wii U game, and a Switch game (maybe even a GameCube game) unless they were familiar with the games in question. There is also a growing market for retro lookalike games that don’t have the newest graphics (some of which are literally playable on the NES). IMO there’s no need for a new console unless it can do something truly unique and innovative.

@johnvboy I think another Mario Kart game is unnecessary now. They'd better create a new Diddy Kong Racing instead.

Also, making a new F-Zero may not move hardware like hotcakes, but it does improve the image of Nintendo and the Switch a lot, and they'd make the fans happier. And they want us to be happy with them.
Same with Starfox, Metroid and Paper Mario.

@johnvboy Would they really though? Sure it would make them more money short term to make Mario Kart 9/10/whatever they call it on Switch, but look at the big picture. Mario Kart 8 DX already has an absolutely insane attach rate, so it's clear that niche is filled. And racers usually can last a whole generation. Combine that with some really good Karting alternatives coming out (Team Sonic Racing, Crash Nitro Kart), and it might do them more good to focus on filling a whole in the customer library, while also making a game that doesn't step on Mario Kart's toes. That's why I still think there was some truth to that whole Star Fox Racing rumor, it makes sense from a business perspective.

@Euler

Yeah things have really plateau'd with the ps3 and ps4 generations.
The day and age of giant leaps are over.

The NX really is truly new though, let Sony and Microsoft do the usual power struggle with the usual gaming suspects.
Nintendo will march to their own beat and do whatever they want.

And that's a good thing.

@NoxAeturnus
Miracle ports don't seem to be the biggest sellers anyway, and mostly seem to exist for the buzz value.
They certainly aren't on my shopping list, and I won't miss them. Only for the curiosity of how it was achieved.

As you say, they will dry out when even Panic Button can't get a game to run at 12fps, with no post processing, and a 360x640 res.

@Pod
Panic button is trying to port Snes Starfox ?

If they do a Pro version with higher specs, they could easily make it an 8-year generation.
That's fine with me. It would make up for the Wii U at least.

Time will tell, but I wouldn't be surprised. Switch still does what BoxStation Fivelett aren't expected to, boasts a variety of evergreens and retains first party dedication. Regardless of how the other Gen 9 consoles sell, it will be topical until Nintendo themselves make a distinctly new hybrid to succeed it.

With the introduction of the Lite isn't it time we stopped comparing Switch sales to home console sales and started comparing it to DS, 3DS and Gameboy sales?

How many Switch they sell depends on too many factors to make a realistic or accurate guess now.

When does Switch 2 release?
When Switch 2 does release will they go back to a company split making games for 2 systems, portable Switch and home Switch 2?
Will they get some games out on a regular basis? MP4, Pikmin 4, Bayonetta 3, Zelda BotW 2, MK 9, Splatoon 3? I know Switch has a ton of games, but their first party could be better. AC delayed.
Will PS5 be priced to sell and take off at launch?

Switch is doing great, but it's a foggy road to the finish line.

@NoxAeturnus I'm right there with you on that one. I absolutely understand why 3DS/WiiU titles can't be reverse compatible with the Switch, but with the way the eShop is linked the the Nintendo Online service now, I'm just straight up expecting the next gen to be reverse compatible. And if it's not, I will be sorely disappointed.

It'll continue to do good. The only time it may dip a little is during the launch of the PS5 and Microsoft's next one. After those two releases, then it would be good to show the Switch's sales, as they'll dwindle a little...basically though, as what consumers want anymore, once the next gen comes out, the Switch will become low in specs and many of those AA games will become harder to also put on Switch, meaning it will be time for Nintendo to up the game again...it's all happened for every console company throughout the decades, and it's not going to slow down. When the sales start going down for the Switch, you bet that nintendo is going to come out with another system to get what they are here to do (just like everyone else)...take our Money!!!

@johnvboy I think 1.5 million is good but not for a title made by Nintendo proper... they’d need a subsidiary, affiliate or some other company to make it like with the last couple... though maybe that’s why the previous couple didn’t sell that great..

Ill be curious to see if Microsoft or Sony tries to match portability options with the Switch. Handheld Xbox would be difficult to pass up.

i would like Nintendo to start planning out their next console highly unlikely it will be on the level as PS5 and Xbox Scarlet but they could possibly get it to base PS4 and Xbox One level of hardware and power, still behind Microsoft and Sony

I highly doubt this. My guess is the Switch will be taking a huge nose dive in sales when the PS5 and next XBox is announced.

I think the Switch will get anywhere from 70m to 85m... personally i see it matching or slightly passing the 3DS - this would still mean the Switch will do very well.

@Pod I think that buzz factor is more important than it seems, not critically important, but enough that Switch will lose a bit of its appeal. Hobbyists will always buy a more robust version on PS/XB/PC, but there's definite double dipping for Switch's portability even among the high-spec inclined. There's a market for those games on Switch, though it's certainly not the only market or even the major market on Switch.

Of course it's all moot right? The dark dystopian future is obviously subscription service game streaming. Game Pass and PS Now could eventually be mobile apps available on smartphones and streaming devices like Roku, and all you'd need to buy is a controller to connect via bluetooth and to pay your monthly sub.

@KitsuneNight
D'oh-ho-ho!

I think the switch will sell similar to the 3ds life time sales

@Rodan2000 not to get all Buddhist or anything....I suspect that what people are addicted to is desire. New machines allow for the feeling of desire, and desire can never be satiated.

For me, I’m very happy with the switch and my back log is long enough to last me through next year, even without new titles being launched

I honestly don’t see the switch selling 20mil for the next 3 years with the ps5 and nextbox launching, stadia and xcloud gaining more traction, and pc gaming still being a thing, unless the switch has a switch pro come out in a few years. The switch lite is doing a good job of keeping momentum strong but unless the switch line has some new hardware coming in 2021 I think that momentum starts to slow. Without a switch pro I think the switch ends around the 70-80mil mark. With a switch pro I see it getting to that 90-100mil territory.

Now if you're a Nintendo gamer who likes cartoon graphics then the ps5 and Scarlett won't impress you. But if youre one of those Nintendo gamers who say that the ports are good enough on your switch well you might be singing a new tune with the new systems. One ports will become next to impossible and two Ray tracing makes things look scary realistic. The reason ps1 and ps2 games don't hold up is because how much more realistic things look today. Ray tracing will make the switch look like a museum piece. I just sold my xbox one x and I'm pretty much all in on the switch. But there's some deniers here about what the ps5 and Scarlett will bring. I can't help but think it will affect Nintendo sales

Strange that people seem surprised at its success. Many people bought the full-fat Switch as a handheld-only, years before the Lite. And with the DS family ending, there's a 100 million customer base ready made, with only the Vita for competition. Some "analysts" were saying lifetime sales could be less than the WiiU's. Unbelievable.

@sixrings Next gen of power consoles will bring awesome things, but portability is unlikely to be as big of a deal as you think. I can appreciate higher resolution and better graphics, but I already opt to play drastically inferior graphic versions of games i already own on the PS4 simply because the convenience of mobile is a lot more important for me.

Most these [multi-platform] games are also built for PC, and built to support ridiculously low graphic settings, because only a small fraction of PC gamers actually even own a desktop these days. At the end of the day, porting a game for the switch wont be as much on "is it technically possible?" as it will be on "does the publisher care for the platform?"

Like, I don't expect any effort from EA to port games, but I would not be shocked if next year we get Assassin Creed Origins or Odyssey ported over.

@sixrings Scarlet and PS5 will bring........exactly what top end PCs already bring, or a little less. It's not some imaginary future tech we can only dream of. It's a boxed and cheaper version of existing PC tech without costing more than a down-payment on a Ferrari.

Sure, the visuals will be far better than Switch, but it's not like we can't already see what Switch owners are "missing out on" by opting for portable like it's some yet to be discovered technology. You could buy it (or better!) today. It'll just cost you $2500+ versus $500.

Selling 20 million units annually for 3 or 4 consecutive years is very difficult - only the Nintendo DS has ever achived such consistent sales. I think analysts are being a bit too optimistic here.

With that being said, it's pretty clear that Switch sales are not going to "fall off a cliff" even after the new consoles are released next year.

@Pod nah i think nintendo is going to stick with the hybrid console concept since it sells alot better then actual console by itself.

@rjejr Of course, that is assuming that there's even going to BE another Switch. Judging by Nintendo's, and more importantly: Miyamoto's latest comments/quotes, they're once again going for something entirely different for their next piece of video gaming technology.

Depends on what kind of software is coming out for sales to keep as they’re going.

Everyone knows Nintendo is always working on new hardware. I Switch successor is being developed.

Personally I’d be okay with seeing that console in another 2 years.

@ThanosReXXX WiiUToo confirmed!!!1

Whatever Nintendo does next, the only thing we know pretty certainly is that handheld/portable gaming will be their focus going forward, as it's been their focus for 30 years, and Switch veered harder into it. That in itself kind of limits how "different" future "different" machines can be. I don't expect a "Switch 2" in a "PS14" sort of way, same machine with faster processors and more memory, but I also don't think we're going to go as outlandish as Wii/Revolution again either (thankfully )

@NEStalgia Well, only time will tell. They might just as well "veer" the Switch into their now empty handheld slot, and look towards other avenues for the main new console again, once again creating two lines, now that the one they have is so massively successful.

Part of the consolidation of the handheld and home console department was also because of focus, and loss of revenue, wanting to streamline development of both hardware AND software, but it was largely born out of necessity, a need that is no longer really present.

But regardless of what will happen, we all need to keep in mind that this is Nintendo, so I do indeed suspect that we're not simply going to get a Switch 2. It's going to be something entirely different, with other ways of control and playing games.

Often times, clues are left in old tech they either used or tried out, and subsequently set aside or completely abandoned, much like they've done with so many of their other devices, so perhaps we should start looking into that, dig up all the pre-NX patents and such, or look inside the Switch to see if we can find a chip or part of the PCB that doesn't seem to be doing something, meaning it's a remnant of original plans/designs.

All of those things might just give us an inkling of an idea of what it is that they're cooking up for the next generation of Nintendo hardware.

So, time for some reversed engineering, methinks...

@ThanosReXXX Agreed to a point, except that the consolidation isn't necessary anymore. So far, no company at all has been successful at running two console lines at once, and none was better positioned to do so than Nintendo. Given that, Wii aside, their console sales were in continuous decline for decades, I can't imagine them wanting to jump in and try to go head-to-head in a saturated market where their competitors can spend them under the table without breaking a sweat for a second round. If they go with two systems again, they'll do something Labo/Wii/Ring-Fit level outlandish/niche that would probably appeal to the "core" crowd here much less than whatever handheld/hybrid they simultaneously sell.

We know they won't get into a Switch 2, Switch 3, Switch 4 rut. But I think in the modern market they also have to be a bit more conservative (because Nintendo is known for their hasty recklessness ) than in the past. Plus, Wii was a reactionary action of necessity. They realized after GCN their consoles were dead and they couldn't bring them back to competitiveness, and lacked most 3rd party interest. With Switch they've build back third party interest....they have to step on eggshells to keep those relationships in tact this time.

Thinking of their old hardware...so far, I haven't seen anything on a Wii level of outlandish in the patent leaks. A reprise of some kind of 3D/VR/something could be related though, they've long long dabbled with that, and I can't imagine 3DS was the end of that. The odd controller patents they've mostly redone. I can imagine second screen gaming will come back at some point in a new way as well. They don't like leaving a failure like that as-is.

@NEStalgia I think you misunderstood, or I didn't explain myself well enough. I didn't mean them once again going head to head with the others, because that ship has long sailed, so that's obviously never going to happen, and far as looking back or into things I'm also not pointing at it going to be something as outlandish as a Wii, but it IS going to be something entirely different from what we now have.

Miyamoto's own words. Can't get any closer to a reliable source for your next gen rumors than that, now can we?

As for second screen gaming: some of that is still incorporated into the Switch today, such as the multi-screen gaming in Mario Party.

@NoxAeturnus I expect categories of ports to indeed dry up but on the other hand the Switch might have large enough of a userbase(and that might become moreso urf the PS5 come with too large a pricetag/etc leading to a smaller launch than expected) that we may well see more dedicated software outright by then.

"Has an userbase and doesn't cost a fortune to develop for" can be quite the motivator. I -can- see a drop in western AAA games however because our studios are so wed to "cutting edge" graphics and so on. So what we might see might just be more release from the kind of Japanese studios that were so prevalent on 3DS before

@sixrings I don’t think PS 1/2 games not holding up has much to do with graphics. It has more to do with the gameplay quality. There are N64 games from that era (Ocarina of Time, Super Mario 64) that are still serious contenders for the greatest game of all time even 20 years after release, despite incredibly ugly character models (improved considerably on the DS remakes). One need only look at the SNES Classic versus the much-maligned PlayStation Classic to see that it’s not all about graphics.

Switch has now dominated almost 3 yrs of monthly sales in most regions. I think a 4th yr is coming as Switch will continue to be unchecked thru most of next year until we reach the holidays and the new x86 twins. I think the differentiation in features and price point mean next Xmas isn't going to tank just because newer, more powerful units are out.

To those thinking N will bring a home only console again....not really likely. I mean, unless they can design something with innovative differentiating features (like the Wii) then I don't think they will bother. What I would love to see next year is a Switch home micro console. They could bundle that with a pro controller and likely sell it @ $150......Giving players access to an incredible library at a bargain price. So next Xmas what would sell better.. New X86 systems @ $500 with likely no must have titles (that you won't have on every other x86) or a $150 Switch micro with great games like MarioO, ZeldaBoW, MP4, AC and all the other great things out or coming?

I think N's best path is a mid-gen (2022) refresh that uses new Tegra chips and maintains BW compatibility and the hybrid concept. A SwitchPro could sport a 1080p screen and more oomph and then N could turn it into a true VR unit.

Nintendo has a great market position in that who else is going to be able to make a better hybrid/portable at a lower price point? M$ has never dared to go portable and $ony really had good (not great) success with PSP and then followed it with a dog in Vita. The only company well positioned to take on N in the portable gaming arena is Apple and while I bet they could make some nice hardware and dump loads of money on 3rd parties to get AAA developments....it would still be second rate because it wouldn't have Nintendo's IPs on it.

I expect Nintendo to stay in this hybrid lane for quite a long time and I don't expect anyone else to really disrupt their dominance in said lane.

As for ports.....look that's all about sales and user base. Who of us really though Switch could run competent ports of current gen games like Witcher, NBA2k,Doom/Wolf and others yet to be seen? Everyone wants their favorite game portable so there are still plenty of last and current gen tittles that will likely come over.

@EultellI'm sure most people can tel the differences between the 480p Wii, the 720p Wii U, and the 1080p+ PS4.

Power also makes bigger games possible.

100 Million is a lot. I think the Switch is neat and all but with what is coming out in 2020 and beyond I can't imagine it continuing to sell 20 million a year without some kind of revision.

@link3710,

I think they will opt for the best seller imho.

@Tharsman,

Those triple AAA ports do not sell that well on the Switch, they do o.k but Nintendo's first party games will always drive Nintendo systems.

@Razer,

In all fairness the Switch will not be affected that much by the new consoles form Sony or Microsoft, they are going for a totally different market and demographic, the Switch can easily sell 100 million consoles imho.

@johnvboy the only company claiming they don’t sell well enough to justify the ports so far seems to be EA, whom does not even port their sports games, but instead reskins older releases with updated rosters and then complains they complain that they don’t sell well.

There is no reason why Switch can’t sell over 100 million units, especially with the Switch Lite now bringing in an even broader demographic.
I can’t see any reason why Nintendo would want to go back to home based console only. In its history Nintendo have always brought out new consoles that are totally different to the last. Other than the DS family backward comparability has never been their bag really.
With the Nintendo Switch they have struck gold at a perfect time. The Wii U was a marketing cock up of the highest order and the next console had to be right on point.
All they need to do is upgrade the tech when necessary and Switch will live on to 2, 3 , 4 and 5 etc.
Switch is a winning product and to even try and go away from the handheld element any time soon would be marketing suicide.

@Tharsman EA are disliked hugely in the US for the very reasons you mention. Each year they could just provide DLC for FIFA, Madden etc but they just re hash and sell at full price.
The issue though is that the charts prove that the sheep around the world buy the ‘new’ version every year! And if people are stupid enough to do that, then EA will take their money for years to come.

@Tharsman I don't exactly see Activision and call of duty on switch

@sixrings never say never. Modern Warfare 3 was released for the Wii. If they get convinced they can make money, they will put the work on the downgrade port. And testimony like CD Project’s quarter results boost due to the Switch version of Witcher might influence the development of more of these crazy ports.

@Tharsman,

They must be selling enough to make them viable, but I just wish they would sell more.

@ThanosReXXX I can't see them doing a "second pillar" as a platform. We agree not a traditional console, and not as outlandish as a Wii. We have to assume a portable focus, because that's their only true common thread in success (Wii aside) for 30 years. But I can't begin to imagine what it is.

Wait, I've got it! Virtual Boy U

@NEStalgia Well, what can I say? It's Nintendo: I've long since learned to never assume anything when it comes to them...

EDIT:
And besides, I've also learned in general, that assumptions are mostly deadly. Both to discussions and to progress of anything, whether that be progress itself, ideas, rumors, etcetera...

@SBandy It's amazing how often they're wrong, such as in this article from T3 last winter: https://www.t3.com/news/this-is-why-you-shouldnt-buy-a-nintendo-switch-for-christmas

They remind me of self-appointed Victorian theorists who espouse swallowing a tapeworm to eat your body's food for you or claimed that bald people were bald due to their diet - the commonality being unsubstantiated claims based on shoddy guesswork. And, as with the Victorian theorists, people discuss their views as if they have anything worth saying when most of them are clueless!

Despite having the console myself for 2.5 years, it still feels new in a way that other consoles haven't for me. Perhaps it's the portability, or maybe it's because games have reached an acceptable level of graphical fidelity, for me at least, but I'm in no rush. Ask me again in 3 years and things might change, but honestly I think Nintendo absolutely nailed the power/value ratio. The system is also holding its launch price and isn't nudging any time soon I don't think, and the PS5/Next Xbox are really not major competition I feel. They might all be consoles, but Nintendo, as it has been for a while now (although the Wii U was a misstep) is occupying a different space and appealing to a different demographic. When I first got my Switch I went on holiday soon after, and literally every single child was around me wanting a go. Fast forward to when I went this year, and it was exactly the same. The console is family friendly and not aimed at power hungry hardcore gamers at all, yet it has a library of games that transcend that demographic.

I didn't realize the Switch might have been considered to be on its way out already?

I always see the Switch as the Indie Machine, where you play mostly indie titles, and first party Nintendo games. Third party AAAs, while nice, are never really in the switch e-shop best sellers list consistently.
Therefore, I can see the Switch surviving for a long time simply being the indie machine and not relying on AAAs outside of Nintendo.

i want the switch to last 10 more years, with a new mainline pokemon game every year.

@Euler Now, a wii u game and a switch game? Sure, but look at Xenoblade for an example of the difference between the switch and the Wii. The thing is, the switch is more powerful than the Wii u, it's just that difference doesn't amount to much.

@BorderlineJon Well, the other ones are 8 years old compared to 2.5. That's what does it for me. I have a PC and a non-pro PS4 and j genuinely don't like playing on my PS4 unless there's a game I really want to play. It's not the graphics, games just don't run that well. The hardware is ancient.

@NEStalgia nah, the leap to 4k is pretty big, but the reason theres a push for faster hard drives is that the faster loading times really, really are significant for creating bigger and deeper games. Sam with the ram upgrades. So, yeah, graphical, things just look clean and lighting and shadows look more realistic, but the games also are allowed a level of depth that was impossible before. That, if anything, will kill the switch. The switch is really limited in how much can go on at once.

@NEStalgia Well, developers still have to build the games with consoles in mind if they are releasing on consoles, but you're right. The thing is, hardware doesn't just limit how good something looks, it limits how big or how deep something can be. Raytracing on a 500 buck box is cool, but the ram, cpu, and storage upgrades mean that games can get beefed up a good bit. I mean, it's still expensive as hell to develop stuff like that, but at least the hardware isn't a limitation. That's the problem with the switch: the kinds of games that can be developed for it is limited. I don't just mean ports, I mean if someone at Nintendo has an idea it has to be scaled towards the switches hardware. I means so does everything, but the switch is setting behind phones so at certain point I think people will drift to where the more modern games are

Honestly, it might make sense for Microsoft to put out a switch like device that works with xcloud. That's really all it would take to at least steal some gamers away.

I love my switch but I hope not I wanna see the Switch 2 released in the next year or so.

@johnvboy i use to think that too but then i heard a mother ask her son if she wanted a new PS4 for xmas to replace his broken one or a new Switch...

Then i realized that it's only us gamers who know they are not trying to appeal to the same market.

For the vast majority of people, which includes parents they both play games therefore only one will be allowed as most parents don't want their kids to have too many video games (parenting hasn't changed as much as the media would have you believe)...

So maybe to us they dont compete... but lets just use a bit of common sense here... do you honestly believe the PS4 would have done as bad as it has been this holiday season if the Switch didn't exist?

Of course they compete and quite frankly its very wishful thinking that the Switch will be "just fine" when the PS5 and Scarlett drop.

@Razer,

Not saying there will be no impact but the Switch is appealing to a wider demographic than just the core gamers, the console also has the most important thing which is momentum, it's a cool little device that the masses like, but lets see how things are next holiday season, plus we have no idea if those Switch pro rumours are true either.

@Rodan2000 the obsession is that if Nintendo made an attempt to keep pace with its competitors not only would you have their first party offerings and other exclusives, but you’d get ports of games that are on everything else

This makes sense because there is a new Switch model coming out with better processing power, the Switch is more capable than the Wii (and thus more accessible to 3rd party developers), and Nintendo's home console and portable markets are no longer divided. Plus the gaming market as a whole is much bigger than it was a decade ago. More people are interested in the Switch and what Nintendo uniquely has to offer

@electrolite77,

The same people were also stating the Switch would not sell in the first place.

Absolutely on point. The Switch offers the other “next gen” consoles will never be able to offer, so Nintendo has nothing to worry about! Even Michael “Nostradamus” Patcher is a supporter now Hahaha

@Xansies What you say makes sense in the PC arena, but not the new consoles, and even on PC is limited. Games are already 4k, 1TB downloads with 1TB patches. Fixed broadband speeds in the US are an average of 129Mb/s as of 2019, but that includes business/corporate customers with wide swaths of the US residential stuck on cable or DSL at 5-20Mb/s. The telcos are slowing/halting their fiber rollouts, betting the bank on 5G wireless instead - downloading tons of 5TB games isn't going to be reasonable there. Game physical sizes are still going to have to be constrained to accommodate the market reality for years at minimum. Atop that, the new consoles aren't going to come with huge, fast SSDs. They can't fit that in the price point. They're almost certainly going to come with small SSDs for caching purposes. Maybe fast ones, maybe average ones. But we're not talking about total game storage on an SSD and streaming vast worlds from it. We're talking abut a fast partial caching drive for improved performance while primary storage remains unchanged (even in the PC world, it's not that different outside the extreme budget hot rodders. The newer games will just make smarter use of such caching.)

We've kind of hit the point of diminishing returns with the x86 world. It can get better, faster, more and faster storage/memory means bigger worlds with more simultaneous actions, etc. But we've kind of plateaued with the improvements you get versus the costs and human effort involved and the delivery mechanism.

If anything ,with the push to cloud everything, the solution to most of those problems on all platforms is going to come from partial streaming to offload those problems back to the central servers. That was the "promise" of the initial X1 launch, which materialized, so far, only in that so-so Crackdown 3 shared world. But I suspect next gen everyone is going to double down on that. The good news with that, though, for Switch is that the more of those services are offloaded to the cloud, the less they hinder Switch. The bad news is offloading the games partially to the cloud annihilates the last shreds of ownership and puts your gameplay at the mercy of your rickety internet connection in real-time, which really sucks in the "5G wireless" future world.

@jly1987 If Nintendo made an effort to keep pace with their competitors, you'd end up with Game Cube 2.

Nintendo isn't a massive consumer & OEM electronics manufacturer like Sony that can divide resources across several industries to sink into R&D.

Nintendo isn't a massive cash-rich software monopoly that can share architecture, platform and OS connections with their very own OS that runs all of PC gaming.

They can't take the direct competition path with their competitors. Against Sega, another similarly sized company it was one thing. Against Sony and MS, they just don't have the same overall resources, supply chain, and partner network. They can't follow or compete step by step against those two while their competitors can spend them under the table and have much wider partner networks and resource availability. Not now, and not ever. Not unless they get bought out by some other mega corp like Apple or Disney, and which point they stop being Nintendo anyway. So Nintendo has to carve a different market for themselves and be the leader in that market, which is exactly what they've been doing.

From a consumer perspective, a console that can play EVERYTHING is very inviting. From a business perspective that's an impossibility for Nintendo to play in that field. And back to a consumer perspective, even if Nintendo COULD pull it off and have a similarly powerful machine that also plays Nintendo games, we'd find ourselves right back in the 80's with a cruel and abusive Nintendo monopoly and zero competition which would be an industry disaster anyway.

You guys Know wii was a big hit sense the games were more fun well some are mostly..

@NEStalgia the GameCube failed because of marketing and tiny disks. Not because it was the most powerful system. I'd gladly take a GameCube 2.

@Xansies Yes, more powerful (meaning production value is exponentially higher and the costs trickle down to gamers somehow) but the difference doesn’t amount to much (a few blades of grass being more lifelike is a bit less significant than going from 8 bits to 16). That’s my point, diminishing returns. Besides there’s an upper bound on what the human visual system is even capable of perceiving (visual acuity is limited to 5 arcminutes with optical correction, a little bit more for some people, and colour wavelengths don’t go far below 380nm or above 740nm).

@Euler please. Nintendo games are using much reduced graphics which means smaller teams and their prices basically never fall. Meanwhile xbox and ps had some great black Friday and Cyber Monday sales. Nintendo thinks they're generous giving 20% off a 2.5 year old game.

Companies charge customers what they can get away with.

Notices now it's no longer about Switch graphics not enough to it's not sold enough units. So why do people keep feeding the Trolls.
Here's the busted myths:
1. Not enough graphics
2. Can't sell enough units

Anything wrong with these two stereotyping of the Nintendo Switch.

@sixrings oh please, if they wanted good black fridays where is the xbox XX and ps5? Nowhere but end of next year. Nintendo isn't looking back at either of those consoles. For something released in March 2017 it has done far better then naysayers predictions. And if there is a Pro in the future which is more then likely at this point that would only help Nintendo. Also consider this:
1. It's Portable - something ps and xbox can never do and run off it's own battery - power outage forget ps and xbox.

@SwitchForce the graphics margins are widening again next year. Also have you heard of xcloud and play anywhere service. For all we know Microsoft could release its own portable that can stream content. I'm hoping Nintendo let's Microsoft have a xcloud app on the switch. Anyways my original point was that games which should cost more because of higher production costs related to graphics often cost higher than Nintendo games. Just because Nintendo makes their games cheaper doesn't mean they pass that savings onto the customers. Rather Nintendo had arms, Kirby, donkey Kong tropical freeze, Mario Kart 8, smash bros ultimate at full price over the weekend. Meanwhile xbox was practically begging people to buy their games with crazy sales.

@ShinyUmbreon

No the Wii was a big hit because it had a very marketable gimmick and tapped into the casuals.
It was actually a dumping ground for shovelware.

The NX also has a very marketable gimmick but its a gimmick most people would agree on is a very usefull and welcome one.

@sixrings uhm no, no, that is not the way it works.

@Cartridgemaster so why is it I can buy last year's assassin creed and tomb raiders for 50% off regularly on the other systems but Nintendo first party games never go on deep discounts until the systems selects or player choice line ups come out. Are you suggesting it actually costs more to produce a Nintendo game than a tomb raider or an assassin creed? Nintendo charges what it charges because people will pay for it. They aren't some sort of charity. They have figured out people will pay $5 a month to play a cell phone game and so that's what they charge. Nintendo has figured out that it's fans will pay full price for a port of one game versus xbox fans who will only pay full price if it's a collection (master chief) or PlayStation (God of war). Other companies sell their systems at a loss to win over its customers. Other than the gamecube and virtuaboy I can't remember Nintendo ever selling their systems at a loss. The poster I was originally responding to said " more powerful (meaning production value is exponentially higher and the costs trickle down to gamers" and I'm here to argue that isn't true. Or xbox games would cost substantially more than Nintendo games. When in fact Nintendo games cost the same while at the same time rarely go on sale. Um yes. That is exactly how it works.

@ThanosReXXX Good point, there probably won't be a Switch 2 as Nintendo has never done a 2. They've done a 3DS, and a Super, and a New (though New isn't really new, it's just new-er) and an Advance, but never a 2.

So there probably won't be a Switch 2. Though I think I'll keep calling it that anyway b/c how is anybody supposed to guess a name like N64 or Gamecube or Wii or Wii U or Switch? Those aren't really guessable names. Nintendo isn't Sony in that regard.

I do think there will be another hybrid. There's really no reason not to if the tech is there to let a handheld play a home type game, and Doom, Skyrim and more Doom kind of prove it can be done, even if it's somewhat a gen behind. Though preferably w/o the dock, just make it a port. Or a small stand. Wireless dongle. Maybe call it Switcheroo.

It just has to be a system that gets new games that the current system can't play. But more than just New 3DS which only got a couple. Switch DS still needs to be a thing first, gotta port those 3DS games now that 3DS is dead. And it is, regardless of what Ntineod says. 3DS has a good 5 years worth of games, some of which of certainly worth porting, like Luigi's Mansion and Kid Icarus. Plus, they could port some Wii U games - they 1 or 2 still not ported - and have the bottom screen act as the Gamepad screen. Maybe that's why we haven't seen Pikmin 3 ported yet? OR Wonderful 101? No 3D though, that ship has flown. 2DS proved you don't need it.

Maybe Switch DS won't be until the Switch successor, but I can see it in a year or two, once Lite sales slow down, Nintneod likes to keep the modifications coming.

I've kinda given up hope on a Switch Home to complement the Lite, Nintneod doesn't seem to have an appetite for that. Id' still buy 1, price should be cheap, no Joycon, no screen, no battery, just a box and a Pro controller. Shield TV is only $150 and Nintendo would save money by dropping all of that Dolby Atmos 4k stuff and the ethernet port. $169 would be tempting when Zelda BotW 2 releases.

https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/shield/shield-tv/

@RiasGremory
That's what I'd expect too, but I'm also expecting Nintendo to once more re-convince me about what's "better" than what I already have. And if it's something completely unlike the Switch, then hey.

@KitsuneNight true u got a point there pal a big one

@rjejr I'd certainly be interested in a Nintendo version of the Shield TV, but I honestly have no idea what's next. I got that you simply used Switch 2 as a placeholder, but that realization kinda came after the fact...

Anyway, all I'm expecting, as mentioned before, is the unexpected, and something entirely different, much like we're used to from Nintendo by now. And what that is or how it will work and how it will hold up against Scarlett and PS5, only time will tell.

I'm guessing it's going to be a success regardless, though. Nintendo has had more successes than failures, so if that's anything to go by, then they will at the very least be on the right track now...

@ThanosReXXX "and how it will hold up against Scarlett and PS5"

I think we all know the answer to that, not very well.

The 1 thing the Switch will have going for it after PS5 and Scarett launch is that there will be over 100 million PS4 sold, so companies will continue to make games for that console, and ports of newer games for that console, for the next couple of years, so Switch should still be able to get ports of those versions. Then hopefully Not-Switch 2 will be close enough in power to get ports of PS5 games.

Not that Switch gets all the ports anyway - still no CoD or Battlefront or Destiny or GTAV (still selling 5 years later, expecting a 4k next gen port) or Cyberpunk as of yet - but it gets some. Though some of the ports like FIFA have been pretty bad.

Switch will be hard pressed to get any full fledged 4k games though once those start rolling out. But that may be 3 years from now. Not including the games it wasn't getting anyway like God of War 2, Spiderman 2, Horizon 2, and whatever Scarlett will get.

Who knows. I gotta tell ya, I'm really getting close to being done with gaming, my fingers just can't anymore. I'm playing Bastion - nice game for $3.50 - and my fingers get confused between X for health and A for attack sometimes when things get frantic. I'm going to play Luigi's Mansion 3, see how that goes, but I may just be playing on "story mode" when Bayonetta 3 releases. Somewhere between my brain and fingers things get miscommunicated. So whatever comes after Switch I likely won't be playing on it. We'll see about PS5. I wanna finish God of War, but it may nto be worth buying a system for. FF7R wont' be finished until PS6.

@rjejr I meant how the successor of the Switch will hold up, not the current model. Those results are already pretty evident...

If they manage to incorporate current gen high end mobile tech into their next hybrid (because that's possibly what it's going to be), then the gap could remain the same as it is now between the Switch and Xbox One/PS4.

@sixrings this from a system that is vaporware. This is why Nintendo Switch is doing better then naysayers are saying but it's not working. This isn't about graphics but bringing in more then the typical male gamers but everyone that's how you innovate and grow your base and market shares. The more people uses your system the more innovations come and look now at the big boy Developers are jumping onboard after they are seeing indie success and not Censoring their games. As for cost you think porting or remastering is free. Then I got a prime piece of land in Russia siberia for you. Remember this small Fact you forget to remember "You can't eat CODES and expect to make a living." Example Witcher 3 port. Would they do this for free if so tell me how?

@Cartridgemaster "uhm no, no, that is not the way it works."
Either way they can't seem to understand. That to ReMaster or port to another system requires Labor/Money/Sweat. Others would think you can just insert your BlueRay Disc into the Switch and play. And let's Remember Nintendo existed in the 80's before PS or Xbox only other one was PC computer and Apple IIe along with Mac and or Atari was more prevalent at that time.

@ThanosReXXX "then the gap could remain the same"

Well that should be the goal, keep doing what they are doing now.

Maybe make a VR headset out of plastic next gen instead of cardboard.

@rjejr Yeah, there's that. Haven't jumped into that particular part of the Switch yet, and don't know if I ever will. I guess it's cool if you have kids, or at least a family home, so you can build stuff together, but as a single guy of our age, it hasn't really triggered me yet, even though I don't have any particularly negative thoughts about LABO, like so many still seem to have.

@ThanosReXXX We have 2 Labo sets, the first variety pack and the 3 vehicle pack.

The 1st variety pack I made the kids build outside on the deck summer 2018. They finished 4 out of 5, house is 3/5 done, I'm building that one, and they never played with them. They are taking up space in a big box in the basement. I even bought a $22 4 shelf unit to display them on but we filled it with Lego Dimensions toys instead - my family is the target audience for all those crap toy accessories.

The 2nd set I may have opened the box to put my cart in the Switch to get the gold coins, or maybe not. I was hopign my kids would enjoy the gameplay after building all 3 sets butthey relaly just aren't interested at all.

I still intend to buy the VR set. At this point mostly to spite the people on PS. The hill I chose to die on, comment #48.

http://www.pushsquare.com/news/2019/11/shuhei_yoshida_shuts_down_xbox_boss_comments_on_vr

@rjejr That feeling when that one old(er) guy keeps trying to drag the other old(er) guy into the Sony enthusiasts website comments section...

But I'm a social guy, so if you need some moral support on your hill there, then you've got it. Just don't expect me to comment...

Oh, and congrats with the missus.

@ThanosReXXX oh gawd don't comment there, it's horrible. You've told me enough times you wont' go there so I figured it was safe for me to the post the link in case I need to find it again, I still have to reply to the last 3 comments but I cooked dinner for 22 people on Thanksgiving - my house can barely hold a sit down dinner for 22 people - and then I got a bad head cold that's now in my chest. I need to be right before I jump back in.

@rjejr Dinner for 22? Well, color me impressed. I personally really enjoy making dinner, even for friends, but I'd draw the line at hosting a party of that size and being the only one slaving over a hot stove...

@ThanosReXXX Well I certainly wasn't the only 1 slaving over a hot stove. You go on Facebook? My brother-in-law has some chef skills, I hit him up w/ all my questions and he carves the turkey. My sister-in-law makes the gravy, my other brother-in-law helped out a lot, took the family photo, and brought some really good beer. My wife baked some deserts and does the veggies - carrots, broccoli and mashed potatoes. I'm good at delegating.

Hardest part isn't the cooking, it's re-arranging all of the furniture to fit 22 people for a sit down dinner. I have 12 folding chairs and 2 folding tables in the basement, another in the garage. And of course all of the cleaning beforehand, we're not too good at that year round. Then putting everything back to normal afterwards, took like 2 days to feel like it was over.

Next year we're going back to my b-i-l house, two years in a row here is all I can take. I think my wife actually does the most work washing all of the dishes, cleaning, cleaning up, baking. Next year T-day is on her birthday, the big 5-0, so I told her she ain't waiting hand and foot on all those people that day, she's taking it easy. It's the least I can do.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10221435486107509&set=pcb.10221435505908004&type=3&theater

@rjejr No, I'm afraid I have to disappoint you on the Facebook part.
I truly and absolutely detest any and all social media, so I've never invested in things like Facebook, Twitter or Instagram. I'll leave that to all the disposable heroes and "influencers" of our wonderful modern age...

@ThanosReXXX No biggie.

@rjejr Perhaps stating the obvious, but I'm not considering you to be a part of either of the two aforementioned categories...

I would love the Switch to have a long lifespan, but I am worried because Sony and Microsoft will release their next-gen consoles between 2020-2021, so third parties wouldn't want to develop games for an underpowered previous gen system compared to two other video game consoles that have graphics that look way better. That could plummet the sales for the Switch, and I don't want that to happen. Maybe in 2021, we might get a Switch Pro, since we got OG Switch in 2017 and Switch Lite this year?

@Username77 And they will still make games for OG Switch and Switch Lite, but there will be some exclusives to Switch Pro, kind of like how Xenoblade Chronicles 3D was only for New Nintendo 3DS and not OG Nintendo 3DS.

Switch Pro could probably have the power of a PS4 and Xbox One/

@ThanosReXXX I have my moments.

@rjejr As long as it's just that and not a lifestyle, we're good...

@Xansies you make a valid argument, but the Switch is not aiming for power hungry 4k gamers at all. You think they would release another one where the gap between handheld and docked is big enough for games to run at 720p/maybe 1080p handheld and 4k docked? I really don't think that will happen, certainly not any time soon. The move to solid state is big yes, because of file sizes, but file sizes on the Switch are comparatively tiny, so it's no major issue there yet either. Although the Switch is working off SD cards it is technically similar to solid state (albeit on a smaller scale and not as fast). I still don't get your argument that it will kill off the Switch though. You're comparing oranges with apples. The PS5 and next Xbox will sell fantastically, but I doubt there will be that many people that decide to buy one INSTEAD of a Switch. The Switch for most people is either as a secondary and complimentary device, or their only device. I say that having read numerous comments and from people I have met and talked to. I think we are going to have to disagree, because we are clearly thinking from completely different angles. Either way, it will be interesting to see what happens next holiday season eh?

Since Switch is my last Video-Game console (xbox se(x) and ps5 does not interesst me in any way - i've never cared less about an console launch) i would be happy, if we can get a 10+ years lifespan. switch is all i need, i have even sold my xbox one a couple of days ago, because for 99,999% of my time, i only play on switch. and in 10 years, i am 45 years old, so who knows if i am still interessted in "new" technology. all i can say is, that i hate "realistic" graphics in games. that's why i prefer japanese games anyways. i prefer colorful - graphics and good gameplay, over realistic "pew pew pew" games that's why xbox was the fail system of this generation for me.

For example Shenmue 3 - i love that game. It's "new" with pretty graphics, but still - not realistic. Everything is colorful, humans look like a mix of realistic and anime - style. that's what i like

@Rodan2000 I totally agree. We have high enough specs to make almost any game a reality. In terms of being able to deliver good looking visuals and tight gameplay, what more do we need? The constant race for better graphics just means fewer games come out and they are riddled with microtransactions cause they cost a fortune to make.

Focus on gameplay. Graphics are good enough. Long live the switch.