Team Cherry made a big name for itself with its atmospheric yet adorable Metroidvania platformer Hollow Knight when it realised on Steam in February last year. The game has since generated a huge amount of publicity, not only since its initial Switch reveal, but also since its delay and unfortunate absence at the March Nindies Showcase.
While making a guest appearance at this year's Bitsummit indie games event in Kyoto, Japan, we took the chance to sit down and chat to William Pellen and Ari Gibson from Team Cherry about Hollow Knight on Nintendo Switch.
Nintendo Life: How’s Hollow Knight coming along?
Team Cherry: Really well, it’s taken a lot of effort, but it is running nicely and it looks really nice on the screen. There’s just a few final things to clean up. We’ve taken our time to make sure it’s as good as it can be which is really important to us, and it’s our first game so there was a lot of stuff do and stuff that to be remade in certain ways, but the last thing we would ever want is for the Switch version is to be ‘less’ in any way, especially given demand there has been on that platform. It’s the game's console debut, and it’s the perfect fit.
Did you feel much pressure with the transition from PC to console?
Actually, we almost felt the opposite of pressure. It has been really exciting. People are really loving the Switch and we are really lucky about the timing of the Switch coming out when it did. We love it as well as players but as also as a platform as a developer.
What’s been happening in the time leading up to release?
Nintendo has been really helpful. We feel that we share their internal development process philosophy and the quality of the games they put out so hopefully we are just learning from them.
The refining has been ongoing and the extra content for the release we did in the meantime. All the content packs that have been released so far will be in the Switch version at launch. Also a lot of it was refactoring technical stuff, breaking it down and redoing it a bit more cleverly, but while we were doing that we had the chance to make some creative tweaks and refine a bunch of other little things. We haven’t got to the point of rebranding it as a new addition, but it’s certainly a fuller experience.
Some of that creative stuff (during the porting process) is so we don’t go crazy with all the technical stuff and fixes. It honestly keeps us alive that we can improve more creative elements of the game. It’s kinda nice to go back over things a few more times, and go back to all those niggling little things and clean up as well as we can do, so that something could just be better.
But we recognise that we could do that clean up forever, and we aren’t dragging our heels, but it terms of getting it ready on console, you get that chance of taking the time and doing that final sweep with the last few bugs and issues.
As your first game, it must be difficult to definitively say when it’s finished.
I think we are pretty good at saying that this is the point where we are happy to release it. Maybe games are a bit different now with things like streaming culture, so now for us as developers, we can see from the outside a lot more and we can obviously see things breaking. You can watch someone on YouTube or on Twitch literally breaking the game because in the past you could sell the game to people and they would tell you about bugs but it’s only when you see the gameplay and see things go wrong, you think ‘we really should fix that! Even people just playing it in different ways or people trying to break it, and find lots of stuff for us to work on.
So how does it look in handheld mode?
We think it looks great and it suits the game, because we were wondering how everything would look when it was scaled down, but it works really nicely. We hit a really good balance of character scale and the scale of everything generally that works really well on both the large and small screen. There might even be a thematic thing there that works - it’s a kingdom of bugs! So when you put it on the handheld screen, this is its true scale! You look at something like Breath of the Wild which looks great on the small screen, but the vastness of the game sometimes belongs on a big screen and it’s really impressive.
How has the momentum been from the community since release and the anticipation for the Switch version?
It really has kept up and we are constantly seeing a wide array of art, but not solely visual art. Some people do arrangements of the music and even original songs, taking poetry about the game and making lyrics which is really cool or videos of people playing the game and talking about it.
Obviously, the community is doing all of this themselves and really running with it but the fact that we are also actively working on the game at the same time and it is still evolving in small ways keeps it a bit more alive and keeps players constantly engaged.
The accessibility of updating games has changed the way people release games quite significantly. Our philosophy ideally is to still take the Nintendo approach of taking time and releasing something that is of that high quality straight out of the gate and people can play that through and have a complete experience.
Is there any plans for a physical release?
Absolutely, and it’s something that a lot of fans have requested. I think it’s something that we’d love to see ourselves and we are certainly having those discussions right now, but once we have something to announce officially we will. We are doing everything in our power to make that happen. We are looking at things besides just solely a physical copy of the game, and we are super mindful. We want to look at it as something to be preserved, as an object that has value.
What are your thoughts about documenting the creative process?
We have a bit of a funny process in that we tend to use everything that we make in the game so there is at a lot of concept stuff, but we try and keep the distance between concept and execution as short as we can so as we have the idea and sketched roughly and then within a pretty short space of time it’s on its way to being made.
There was a Kickstarter, with a manual and a comic that really expands the world of the game, which is really nice and the comic is a cool idea to pursue in the future, but collating some of that process and making a tangible product is something we think a lot of fans would enjoy.
It seems like both an advantageous and daunting position due to the sheer volume of fan art and support out there.
Yeah, it would just have to be a very large book! It’s a wonderful thing as well because we are about to approach this new Switch audience and hopefully some of them would join that existing community. The Switch release is super exciting for us because of the new influx, and the players make their art work because they’ve felt a connection to the characters from playing and spending a lot of time with the game.
Various Switch releases have introduced a new wave or ‘generation’ of fans to a title over a range of time periods...
Yeah, keeping it alive has been good by releasing those content packs but now with the Switch launch it gives even people who have already played it a chance to look forward to a new bunch of people to talk to about it with and it keeps the community going strong.
We intend to keep it alive in the future as well to an extent, we also don’t want to be the company that makes Hollow Knight forever. We need to be Team Cherry that makes several video games but for now, we are really enjoying the act of supporting this one and seeing it grow and getting it out to an audience.
Do you have any ideas for future projects right now?
That is something that sort of just happens. We have at least ten years worth of games we could make (!) but that might only turn out to be two games because by the time we’ve spent years developing and supporting the game (which is something we really want to continue to do - follow the Hollow Knight template), it could just turn into two or three. There is some overlap but not a lot, as there’s only a couple of us, but we’ve started looking at a couple of projects.
So, the ultimate question is when...?!
Soon... All we can say it that it’s very soon... And we know that we have made people wait but we do think the quality of the product is worth it. The time that we’ve put into it has made the Switch version the perfect version of Hollow Knight and it really was worth the time we have taken. Nintendo has a philosophy and we’ve spoken to them a lot. The one thing is that there’s never been any pressure regarding dates, there’s been nothing but support.
We are really happy with the fact that the excitement hasn’t died down in that gap between PC and Switch. We are at the finish line but can’t say anything conclusive regarding timing, so until things are rock solid, we have to wait but we know exactly what’s going to happen.
We would like to thank William and Ari for their time. Hollow Knight will be heading to Switch at a later date. Share your thoughts on this upcoming port with the rest of the Nintendo Life community...
Comments 44
Looks really good and can't wait!
Hopefully, the finish line is 1-2 months. This game has an audience waiting to dig into it.
I'm always happy to wait for a game if it is being optimised. Bravo! Day one (when it's ready.)
Looking forward to playing this! (You've got the wrong game listed on the sidebar on the right of the page though...)
Day one, baby!
I'm glad they confirmed a physical copy. I think I have plenty enough to play that I can hold out for that. I think...
"... We are looking at things besides just solely a physical copy of the game, and we are super mindful. We want to look at it as something to be preserved, as an object that has value. "
Very promising!
Summer gaming for me is going to be this and Dark Souls. Lovely stuff.
Now THIS is a perfect example of how not to make your 2D non-pixel art game look like a game that was created in Adobe Flash.
A lot of other developers should definitely take notice. This looks wonderful and original, and the whole vibe that surrounds it, simply makes you want to play it.
At least, as far as I'm concerned...
Looks awesome, can't wait to play it.
@Fake-E-Lee, @jcvandan I am right there with the two of you. I look forward to “Dark Souls” despite having previously played it to finish on PS3, but I CAN’T WAIT for “Hollow Knight” and practically broke my finger when tapping this article at the speed of light.
The only thing I hope here is that a physical release does not delay the digital release — I’d much rather double-dip than wait any longer when I KNOW that this is a game where the asking-price-to-content ratio leans far, far toward the player’s favor.
AMAZING! Another game I have on PC but not played waiting for the Switch version. Day 1 for me - perfect game for the Switch.
This is a modern Indie game I would play on my TV when at home also - enough with all the retro nonsense.
Realised what?
I was thinking about buying this right away to support the devs, but I'm going to wait and see how it is performance-wise. It ran ok for the most part on PC, but there was a lot of bugs (pun not intended) and framerate problems that were pretty frustrating.
Gimme.
I'm so hyped
"Nintendo has a philosophy and we’ve spoken to them a lot. The one thing is that there’s never been any pressure regarding dates, there’s been nothing but support."
That's one way of putting it I think the momentum for most sales has passed on for now on Switch, people have been wanting this since Switch's release while the developers have been making promises after promises to their fanbase. But who knows, we might've a new Stardew sales-wise on our hands after all.
Very much look forward to buying this twice if they do a later physical release. I’m waiting patiently still.
I'm very excited for this game, heard nothing but good things about it. My prediction is June 29, since that day isn't crowded enough already for game releases.
Come on, please! Hook this game to my veins!
I've already 100%ed the original game on Steam, but I want to double dip right NOW. It's such a fantastic game!
Day fu*⚡*ng one!!! Seems to nice to pass by and not try.
Hollow Knight Amiibo and immediate post Nintendo e3 direct launch confirmed!
Proud to have kickstarted this game!
Need a physical release too.
Yes, but where's Rage 2?
Jeez that teaser for Rage 2 looked vile, brought back memories of the worst of the 3DO era.
So the news is there is no news. "Soon" means nothing.
Disappointing.
So excited for this!
Can’t wait!
Been looking forward to this game for awhile now I love the fantastic art style.
Can`t wait any longer for this
Day 1. Earlier if possible.
Leaving for a summer break in July. Would be nice to take this game with me.
@Fake-E-Lee
"Hype stress" A serious affliction I know all to well.
Please just a date so I can pre-order it already 😝
@QwertyQwerty Guaranteed!*
*not a guarantee
The reviewer at Destructoid loved this game. Honestly, I think I will too. Also, buy Slime-san, it's pretty good! Pretty, pretty, pretty good! It also doesn't get as much love as I believe it should.
This game is a masterpiece! Can’t wait to play it again on a handheld.
This still kind of annoys me, this is like the fifth interview or press statement where they’ve said ‘soon’ without so much as a vague release window. They said ‘very soon’ back in December, and they said the same thing earlier last year, with that kind of track record ‘soon’ is meaningless. If it’s not actually ‘soon’ and is more ‘we’re not really sure’, they should just say so instead of stringing people along.
Can't wait for this.
Would love a physical collector's edition as well.
I've heard this game is full of bugs.
Bring it on, been waiting to play this since it was announced.
I hope this comes out in June because there's too much coming out at the very end of June thru July so I will not have time for it. Also I hope they announce before release when a physical version will be available since I do not want to double dip.
@Agramonte Well to each their own but I always laugh when someone goes "enough with _____ nonsense" why ? why does it bother you ? just skip the games you dont like, theres ROOM for all titles, some of the best titles I've played (without any bias going in) have been RETRO in design, I can name a few dozen....Binding of Isaac has a anime-older style to it, like Super Meat Boy, and how many millions of players invest 100s n 100s of hours into those games ? LOL 1001 Spikes or La Mulana or Shovel Knight...I am not "tired" of anything, enough is a dumb word. JUST SKIP the titles you dont like....retro pixel art, 8 bit, 16 bit, modern AAA games, open world, dungeon crawlers, rogue-lites/bullet-hells, metroidvanias....after this game, I am sure there will be copies and people will start to cry and moan like underprivileged youth "wahhh too much of this chiptune 16 bit anime style art...enough already"...Um says who ? who is the arbiter of good taste ? Speak for yourself. There is room for all games, all genres, all looks & styles/art-styles, you can SIMPLY skip the games that don't interest you, as is...your right.
I hate sports, I hate RTS...but I don't go around on bulletins, facebook, or gaming groups and bash those styles b/c they dont fit my neat little box of what I enjoy. I can name a few retro games EQUALLY as good if not better then HK. Hollow Knight is amazing, and a feat of work...a passion project, and it deserves the praise it gets (and I can't wait just like the others) so I'm not bashing anyone, or criticizing (ok maybe alittle) but no hate here...but really ...I mean....lol whenever I hear "I cant stand this type of game" or "enough of this type of game" or "this is played out" ....I often wonder why someone spends their time complaining about a game or a TYPE of game/genre that they can SIMPLY skip...avoid, not purchase, not endorse, not promote. I can enjoy a retro game, a CLASSIC title, a modern retro game, a modern AAA game, an open world game, a dungeon crawler, a JRPG, ...an ARPG, action/adventure, survival/horror, I dont care if its 4bit, 8bit, 16bit, 32bit, or modern. I am looking forward to Switch release of Hollow Knight this is good news by all means but....once the hype dies off another big retro looking game will come out that everyone wants....there is room for all of them..MORE games the better, even if a genre is being so called played out, or copied, imitated...so what, theres always quality content to be found. And the more games, both retro and anime, and modern looking and (everything in between) the better...I just skip the ones that don't appeal to me. Look at Death's Gambit, or Ghost Song, or Spelunky, or Braid, or Celeste or 1001 Spikes or The Binding of Isaac of The End is Nigh, or upcoming Chasm, or Blasphemous, or upcoming Dead Cells....theres plenty of retro, or retro-looking, games that have quality art, distinct styles...innovation is overrated, and generally the most innovative games are OVERLOOKED and sleeper-hits. People just want good fun games, that are able to pick up and play. Hollow Knight will not be everyones cup of tea.
It is challenging, doesn't do much hand-holding (which as a long-time/older game like myself I personally find enjoyable) the recent "Lifeblood" update gave markers to the map-system (cause Hollow Knights map-travel system was often criticized) there have been people that have played Hollow Knight and while they enjoyed it, and thought it was a good game said "it doesn't have the momentum to keep me motivated and its often brutal in difficulty with little to no help and the map system...well if you die, and try to find your shade...and get stuck in an area where you are screwed, it completely destroys any motivation to keep going forward, I quit 2-3 times before I gave it another try" I've heard that before on several websites. So while many will enjoy Hollow Knight not everyone is going to enjoy it....not that it is any less of a quality game...its amazing (in my mind) but...I can see why a % of the gaming community will skip it, or try it and go "screw this." I think Hollow Knight will be for the niche-gaming community...,it has sold over 500,000 copies so far, and will probably hit over a million and be a success for Team Cherry (and thats good, they deserve it) but not to sound redundant it wont be everyones cup of tea. Anyway again I say no hate or criticizing nobody is "right" or "wrong" I just think there is room for all games, enough is not in my vocabulary....ENOUGH sports games, ENOUGH MOBAS, ENOUGH RTS, ENOUGH Battle-royale....I could say that...but I don't think that...if people enjoy Fortnite, and enjoy Gwent then let them....if people enjoy retro/indie games, who cares..you can just as easily skip over them. Atleast thats how I feel, but...to each their own. I agree with everyone else I am excited for the Switch release of HK...its right down my alley...I've been gaming nearly 30 years...and I've enjoyed a variety of genres, on a variety of devices (Sony, Microsoft, Nintendo for many years going back to the SNES and NES when they were new pieces of hardware). PC as well. Handheld, console, PC you name it.
I am a gamer who gives a fair shake/equal fair opinion to any device or software. Or developer/publisher for that matter. I am looking forward to Koji's current "Bloodstained: Ritual of the Night" though some of it worries me...and the upcoming Chasm (pixel-art-retro) and Death's Gambit, a 2D souls-like game (again people hate the term souls-like b/c they think its become played out) but therein lies my argument, even the creator of Ghost Song (Matt White) (and if you haven't seen Ghost Song check it out...my god its beautiful, haunting, mesmerizing, eerie...its a Aliens/Axiom Verge/Metroid Prime sort of feel, but in a 2D platformer/metroidvania feel...you crash land on a planet called "Lorian V" and you are a single mechanic named Roger (a space-craft operator/mechanic) and your alone on a distant/lonely/eerie planet, you dont know what life inhabits this planet...Matt White previously worked on Towerfall:Ascension as well as a few other titles, he's been a programmer/coder & developer for a good many years and now he has his own small-team (in Columbus, Ohio) where supposebly the indie game scene is pretty big. He started Ghost Song as a "flash" project, something small...and after 2 years (2012-2014) he realized he needed to Switch to Unity to develop a "full on full-featured game" and for the last 4 1/2 years he's been working fervously on Ghost Song. It has a unique look to it...sorta late 80s anime mixed with a PSX-era 32-bit sprite look. Metroid type aiming, full voice-acting (which I think is superb) and great hit-detection, a full / large open 2D metroidvania style world...a full planet to explore loaded with collectibles along with a RPG style progression system for leveling up the different hand-cannons (lasers) and gear.
Over-heating, survival aspects, oxygen levels, loads of bestiary (and NPC's) and so far a pretty solid realistic story of humanity...and my god the OST (soundtrack) is amazing. Eerie...whisps of the undead (ghosts) literally skip by you...almost unseen to the naked eye (almost) with that Dark-Souls type "silence" in some areas, and a soundtrack by Old Moon Studios (sounds like something Disasterpiece who did Hyper Light Drifter's soundtrack) could of done...if you look at the previews, and comments section on youtube (some videos of the game) the praise is quite high...people are all very positive and looking forward to the title...right now he has only announced PC/Linux/Mac (GOG & Steam) releases...but while NOT official, he has stated he wants to port to consoles & other devices. You should check it out. (links below) PS apologize for the long run-on (typing fast on a tablet, I have to go back and add better spacing so your eyes wont bleed lol) it wasnt meant as a triggered response or as an insult, I just think theres room for all types of games, and if a certain % end up being pixel-art-retro in design...so what...some will be great, some will be imitations and barely worth checking out, some will never even release. anyway check out those links.
http://www.ghostsonggame.com/gs/about/
and 2nd link (a youtube video his most recent release about a year ago, its a 24 minute walkthrough of a certain area of the game)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tc03CKJQGdQ
This is a wonderful game. I watched my son play it on his PC. I don't own a Switch but am hoping it will be released on the PS4 soon. I highly recommend this game.
@Itzsfo0 First - I guarantee you that I read your entire post 👍
I actually agree with lots of what you just wrote. But I do not see the difference between the people who take the time to post how happy they are about game X... and the ones who vent their disapproval. In the end they both just providing an opinion. it would be a bit artificial to just have one side or the scale.
The last retro style game I played was Cosmic Star Heroin. It was actually pretty good. If you have the means you should check it out
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=21&v=juKE8FvMky0
But I found the last few months has been retro overload. I for one am glad to see more games with art styles like battle chasers, earthlock, typoman, Pankapu, banner saga. plague road and flipping death finally hitting the Switch at a constant click - and balancing out the game choices available in the eShop. But yes that is just my single opinion.
That video is cool. Crazy how people have the dedication to do things like this. I really like the one production sketch - should make a PDF art book for it. My problem with Blasphemous - I really just want the art book... lol!
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/828401966/blasphemous-dark-and-brutal-2d-non-linear-platform
Thanks for the links.
I am interested in this one!! Looks like a lot of fun
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