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Topic: Live Niki Rock N Ball blind playthrough Friday!

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Token_Girl

41. Posted:

sorry i missed it. i did successfully raise my paper procrastination skills to a whole new level, which i think justifies it.

I am way too lazy to think of something clever.
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KDR_11k

42. Posted:

Wow, I believe I read the manual or something but I didn't realize the game doesn't explain that you can walljump. The lack of air control during jumps is already terrible, that was the big innovation of Super Mario Bros that made the jump & run genre the behemoth it is (NSMBWii sold 10+ million...)

I really wanted to see what happens when he reaches 3-3...

Edited on by KDR_11k

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Ravage

43. Posted:

Just finished watching it, I completely forgot lol
Anyway, it really didn't seem that bad, but it is hard not to notice the inconsistent controls. I think the inconsistency and some strange design killed it.

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Philip_J_Reed

44. Posted:

The implementation of the motion controls was pretty awful. There were times (hard to tell on the video, since you can't see me) that my position of the Wiimote wouldn't change, but Niki would decide to slow to a stop. Also, for some reason, he rolled faster uphill than downhill. (wtf?) Not to mention all the times that I pressed A to jump, and Niki would just keep rolling straight.

That said, it's not the worst game I've ever played. I think I went into it expecting it to be the worst piece of crap that's ever been crapped, and because it wasn't totally awful, it seemed better than it really was.

It was okay. It's sort of like Bubble Bobble minus the fun. And instead of having to use your bubbles to make it to tricky places, you just have to roll back and forth and jump two million times until the game randomly decides that you somehow did it right.

I expected Niki to be a 1/10 in my eyes...but actually I think I'd give it a 4/10 or a 3/10. Bit Boy I'd give a 4/10 to, for comparison's sake.

I'll probably never play Niki again, except maybe to show it to people to make a point. Deep down inside, there's a good game at Niki's core. They just...didn't really find it. Sorry Charlie. :/

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irken004

45. Posted:

I watched until the beginning of the 2nd level on Beat.

I'm surprised that Bit Boy is soo.... gridded.

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Adam

46. Posted:

No, deep down inside there is a soul-destroying void at Niki's core.

Edited on by Adam

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KDR_11k

47. Posted:

Chicken+Brutus wrote:

Not to mention all the times that I pressed A to jump, and Niki would just keep rolling straight.

I think you weren't in ground contact when you hit A, the game's physics were designed to be similar to the real world, not to be fun. There's zero air control which you didn't seem to adapt to, when you jump you keep the exact speed you had on the ground, not like Mario where you can curve your jump in mid-air. Also unlike Mario the jump height is fixed, Mario does some stuff with the gravity that means the longer you hold A the higher you jump. The only way to get a lower jump in Niki is to turn into a rock.

Your observation of the enemies just dying can also be expanded upon, most enemies try to touch you and if you touch them with the slightest bit of speed they die. You have to be a rock to touch stuff like the porcupines but often I spent half the level in rock form, moving slightly left and right to kill the enemies as they all ran to me. I think that's the reason those pearls were added, with the enemies all coming to you to die there was no need to move so the pearls force you to do some jumping to finish the level. Usually that's done after all the enemies are already dead so it's only tedious and as you've noticed the jumping physics are extremely unforgiving and unfun. Now combine that with increasing precision jumping requirements (seriously, try getting to 3-3) in later levels and you just want to smash B+ heads through your TV.

By the way, each enemy usually spawns 2-3 times in the same spot, just so you know where they come from. Still annoying.

I wish you had played Dragon Master after that. Play it with the Classic Controller and the game is more boring and ugly than curse inducing.

Edited on by KDR_11k

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Adam

48. Posted:

If Niki is at all like the real world, I'm going back to sleep.

I don't think Niki's physics were designed to be realistic or fun. It certainly fails on both counts, regardless. The only plausible explanation I have come up with so far is that it was designed as a cruel social experiment by mad scientists interested in the reactions of their test subjects when faced with the worst game design possible.

But speaking of realistic physics, Precision (freeware game by Cactus) does this really well without compromising the fun factor at all. Not that the games are in any way alike -- but I consider that to be a good advertisement for a game: "Nothing at all like Niki. 10/10."

Edited on by Adam

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Philip_J_Reed

49. Posted:

KDR_11k wrote:

Chicken+Brutus wrote:

Not to mention all the times that I pressed A to jump, and Niki would just keep rolling straight.

I think you weren't in ground contact when you hit A, the game's physics were designed to be similar to the real world, not to be fun. There's zero air control which you didn't seem to adapt to, when you jump you keep the exact speed you had on the ground, not like Mario where you can curve your jump in mid-air. Also unlike Mario the jump height is fixed, Mario does some stuff with the gravity that means the longer you hold A the higher you jump. The only way to get a lower jump in Niki is to turn into a rock.

Your observation of the enemies just dying can also be expanded upon, most enemies try to touch you and if you touch them with the slightest bit of speed they die. You have to be a rock to touch stuff like the porcupines but often I spent half the level in rock form, moving slightly left and right to kill the enemies as they all ran to me. I think that's the reason those pearls were added, with the enemies all coming to you to die there was no need to move so the pearls force you to do some jumping to finish the level. Usually that's done after all the enemies are already dead so it's only tedious and as you've noticed the jumping physics are extremely unforgiving and unfun. Now combine that with increasing precision jumping requirements (seriously, try getting to 3-3) in later levels and you just want to smash B+ heads through your TV.

By the way, each enemy usually spawns 2-3 times in the same spot, just so you know where they come from. Still annoying.

I wish you had played Dragon Master after that. Play it with the Classic Controller and the game is more boring and ugly than curse inducing.

Thanks for the explanations, at least. I feel somewhat more comfortable knowing there was at least SOME logic behind the way Niki moved. Just a shame it wasn't any fun. Comparing it to Mario is a pretty good way of specifying its flaws. In a game like Mario, you don't think about how good the jumping is...you just concentrate on enjoying the game. It's only when the jumping in a game is awful (as it was in Niki) that you notice all the things Mario was doing right.

I also understand your comment about the pearls being added because, otherwise, you could just sit in a corner and let the enemies touch you and die...it's interesting, though, that instead of making the enemies smarter, or more challenging or something, Bplus decided, "Well, alright, the enemies so totally pointless that you can literally beat the level by standing still, so let's just stick some pearls around the level and make the player jump." That just seems kind of like they're missing the point.

Thanks for the clarification on Niki's behavior.

And yeah, to whomever pointed it out above...sorry to have mentioned Bit Boy being on a grid so many times...but that's a "feature" that really irks me. Honestly, I think I was more brutal in my playthrough of Bit Boy than I was about Niki, even though Niki was probably worse. It's just that it's easier to identify specific flaws in Bit Boy...whereas with Niki, you just kind of have to resort to saying "Well, the whole thing kind of sucks."

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Moco_Loco

50. Posted:

I just watched quite a bit of the archived video. It's strange how it's actually more fun watching you play a bad game than a good one. Reading your reviews of bad games was also like that.

Niki really looks frustrating for all the wrong reasons. It did remind me a little bit of trying to make difficult jumps in a Mario game, the only difference being that the failure was usually my fault rather than poor controls.

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theblackdragon

51. Posted:

Chicken+Brutus wrote:

In a game like Mario, you don't think about how good the jumping is...you just concentrate on enjoying the game. It's only when the jumping in a game is awful (as it was in Niki) that you notice all the things Mario was doing right.

that's pretty much what we were saying in chat while you were playing Bit.Trip BEAT... jayarr was like 'notice the lack of nonstop cursing?' lol... i believe i also noted that the Gaijin Games dude wasn't there to provide tips as you played, and you seemed to be doing fairly well anyway :3

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Philip_J_Reed

52. Posted:

theblackdragon wrote:

i believe i also noted that the Gaijin Games dude wasn't there to provide tips as you played, and you seemed to be doing fairly well anyway :3

This is a good point. Beat is a difficult game (I don't think ANYONE would disagree with that), but I don't think anyone can accuse it of being unfair. It teaches you as you go, whether you realize it or not (in fact, you often don't realize it...that's the brilliance of it...for a game with no explanatory text, it gets its intentions across very clearly). Niki, which is a very simple concept (collect gems and jump on enemies), requires the developer to follow you into your bedroom and teach you all the quirks and oddities of controlling what should be a one-button game.

That's definitely something worth mentioning, TBD, I agree.

Oh, and "thanks" "so much" for the "game." Jerk. :P

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JayArr

53. Posted:

I was dicretely under a clever StarFox name. :) I want to apologize for being a bit od D***. I think I was compensating for your niceness at a gmae that I would have been enraged over. I found your playthrough very informative even though at times in was torture just to watch (not your fault, the game, i mean orange julius, come on now). Look forward to Rage of the Gladiator playthrough.

Oh, I would also like to know why you have been ducking the Tomena Sanner request. You scared or sometin'?

also Phish ftw

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Philip_J_Reed

54. Posted:


Chat highlights!

Also, regarding Tomena Sanner...I actually thought that would be boring for you guys to watch! I'll play a bit of it next time though, if you really want to see me suck.

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Adam

55. Posted:

That was "edited"?

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Philip_J_Reed

56. Posted:

That was edited.

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theblackdragon

57. Posted:

how did he get the idea that he had any 'fans' in the chat room? i think he had everyone on ignore or something, hahaha

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KDR_11k

58. Posted:

I'm offended by the comment about it looking like an Apogee game. Apogee was very good at utilizing the available tools to make good graphics. Honestly it might be a bit like the early days of Epic Megagames when they still loved overusing palette effects but Apogee? No.

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theblackdragon

59. Posted:

@KDR: well, show up next time and have it out with that dude. he was there at the last live playthrough, and he'll probably be there for the next one too :3

BEST THREAD EVER
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[16:43] James: I should learn these site rules more clearly
[16:44] LztheBlehBird: James doesn't know the rules? For shame!!!
[16:44] Vintage: We have rules?
[16:44] Reala: don't expose the staff to sunlight, don't get them wet and don't feed them after midnight

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Philip_J_Reed

60. Posted:

KDR_11k wrote:

Honestly it might be a bit like the early days of Epic Megagames

My man, you've just reminded me of MANY fond memories of playing Jill of the Jungle. And then whatever that Bible-themed ripoff version was.

Ohh, to be 11 again!

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