Hey everyone, I just came up with a thought and wanted to listen to your opinions respectfully. I noticed that nintendo's latest handheld and home consoles are known for their physical attributes. DS has the double screen and the 3DS has the double screen plus 3D. Wii has the waggle controls and the wiimote and the Wii U has the gamepad. I personally think that nintendo's too focused on outward physical changes on the hardware rather than raw power or the games themselves. I mean for example I think that the second screens in general are not too useful, yet it keeps coming back and is considered as the selling point for Wii U. The selling point for the Wii U should be the games themselves, how they look and how fun they are, and not the gamepad. Some of you think that this is innovation, but I personally am more interested in the games on the screen rather than on how many screens and how many alternative ways I can control it.
Nintendo enjoys breaking from the norm and creating unique, "innovative" peripherals that enhance the experience. Sony and Microsoft, for the most part, stick to the traditional concept of controllers, and gamers appreciate that. Nintendo's problem isn't its tendency to rely on gimmicks and innovation, Nintendo's problem is its relationship status with third parties and management.
Since the release of the PlayStation back in 1995, Nintendo has struggled to share room for third party support. Ubisoft, Capcom, Bethesda, Konami, 2K, Koei, Namco and Square Enix (just to name the big named companies), have almost always been skeptical publishing triple A titles for Nintendo. Flagship franchise releases (Final Fantasy, Resident Evil, Street Fighter, Metal Gear Solid, Elder Scrolls, Bioshock, etc.), have long been absent on Nintendo consoles with a few exceptions. On the other side, Microsoft and Sony almost always gain the support of those companies with the lack of gimmicks, powerful hardware, and a high demand from their enormous, diverse install base.
Nintendo has to do what its competition is doing in some fashion if it wants to thrive and survive. There's no denying this.
Just for you. "I'm just a musical prostitute, my dear." - Freddie Mercury
And this is why Microsoft doesn't have any sort of motion/voice control gimmick and Apple has never marketed the dimensions of their iPads and iPhones..... oh wait...
It's all about product differentiation. The problem is balance though. Consumers like a little bit of "uniqueness" to a product, but when it goes too far and starts being labelled as "gimmicky", then sales start to suffer (because you perceive that you are paying for something that you don't need or won't want to use).
I can't help but think that the Xbox One would be in a better position if they didn't force the Kinect on its users. Same thing with the Gamepad. It's useful, and I wouldn't want to play games without it - but they should have left that decision to the consumer. The Wii U basic bundle should have come with only a pro controller for $250 at launch. The deluxe set should have remained the same. This lower priced model would have been attractive to all the impulse buyers of the original Wii.
It's all about product differentiation. The problem is balance though. Consumers like a little bit of "uniqueness" to a product, but when it goes too far and starts being labelled as "gimmicky", then sales start to suffer (because you perceive that you are paying for something that you don't need or won't want to use).
I can't help but think that the Xbox One would be in a better position if they didn't force the Kinect on its users. Same thing with the Gamepad. It's useful, and I wouldn't want to play games without it - but they should have left that decision to the consumer. The Wii U basic bundle should have come with only a pro controller for $250 at launch. The deluxe set should have remained the same. This lower priced model would have been attractive to all the impulse buyers of the original Wii.
Then you just have three consoles in three different price and power brackets. That's kind of a bad thing when only the games are different. I, for one, am glad that the Wii U has the Gamepad. Once you own one, you realize how nice it is...
I disagree!
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100 mil wiis 150mil DS'
Nintendo just isn't good at brute forcing their way into anything - they tried with the Gamecube. That's Microsofts gig
Edit: yep
$500million marketing for original xbox
$375million to buy RARE
$500million marketing Kinect.
IMO, I said it before and I'll say it again, there is nothing wrong with the Gamecube, or even Nintendo trying to push the envelope in terms of hardware. The Gamecube failed to sell as well as the SNES / Nintendo 64 because it had a bunch of semi off-putting / quirky first party software.
Thats why me and most of my friends left Nintendo that generation, not because the Gamecube was purple and had a handle, it was because stuff like Luigi's Mansion, Wind Waker, and Super Mario Sunshine, just didn't appeal to the majority of gaming tweens / teens.
It's all about product differentiation. The problem is balance though. Consumers like a little bit of "uniqueness" to a product, but when it goes too far and starts being labelled as "gimmicky", then sales start to suffer (because you perceive that you are paying for something that you don't need or won't want to use).
I can't help but think that the Xbox One would be in a better position if they didn't force the Kinect on its users. Same thing with the Gamepad. It's useful, and I wouldn't want to play games without it - but they should have left that decision to the consumer. The Wii U basic bundle should have come with only a pro controller for $250 at launch. The deluxe set should have remained the same. This lower priced model would have been attractive to all the impulse buyers of the original Wii.
Then you just have three consoles in three different price and power brackets. That's kind of a bad thing when only the games are different. I, for one, am glad that the Wii U has the Gamepad. Once you own one, you realize how nice it is...
and once I got my Playstation 4 or Xbox One, I was relieved to have a well made, traditional controller again!..................the Gamepad is cool, but it turns away as many people as it attracts.
How dare they push boundaries right? What we really need in the market are companies that just make the same stuffs that the other guys are making. Nobody pushing mulit-touch into a phone market obsessed with full sized keyboards, nobody thinking that maybe gaming shouldn't just be the domain of twenty something males. What we really want to see are factories where they pump out the same box and slap a different name on every second one.
We need companies like Nintendo considering form and function rather than just accepting conventional wisdom. Yes sometimes it'll backfire but at least they're changing the way companies think about what the product should be. If everyone just assumed the way they were doing it was the only way then things would be incredibly boring.
Also the OP mentioned the games as if somehow Nintendo doesn't care about the games and only cares about the form. If anything Nintendo is obsessed with the quality of the games that come out. They make a pretty bad habit of not giving us any games for months because they want to make sure the end product is good. Compare that to other studios where sometimes delays aren't an option. And the proof is in the pudding, the Wii U is being kicked while it's down right now but the games are good.
Some playlists: Top All Time Songs, Top Last Year
"Don't stir the pot" is a nice way of saying "they're too dumb to reason with"
How dare they push boundaries right? What we really need in the market are companies that just make the same stuffs that the other guys are making. Nobody pushing mulit-touch into a phone market obsessed with full sized keyboards, nobody thinking that maybe gaming shouldn't just be the domain of twenty something males. What we really want to see are factories where they pump out the same box and slap a different name on every second one.
We need companies like Nintendo considering form and function rather than just accepting conventional wisdom. Yes sometimes it'll backfire but at least they're changing the way companies think about what the product should be. If everyone just assumed the way they were doing it was the only way then things would be incredibly boring.
Also the OP mentioned the games as if somehow Nintendo doesn't care about the games and only cares about the form. If anything Nintendo is obsessed with the quality of the games that come out. They make a pretty bad habit of not giving us any games for months because they want to make sure the end product is good. Compare that to other studios where sometimes delays aren't an option. And the proof is in the pudding, the Wii U is being kicked while it's down right now but the games are good.
They push boundaries in some areas, while at the same time falling behind in others, as cool as the gamepad was, a lot of the gaming audience was more like, meh'.................as far as the quality in it's AAA titles, I can't argue with that.
Wii Music sold more than basically every Metroid game. I am in no way saying the previous statement is a thing I approve of, for the record, but it is true. But more often than not, Nintendo knows what it's doing.
100 mil wiis 150mil DS'
Nintendo just isn't good at brute forcing their way into anything - they tried with the Gamecube. That's Microsofts gig
Edit: yep
$500million marketing for original xbox
$375million to buy RARE
$500million marketing Kinect.
IMO, I said it before and I'll say it again, there is nothing wrong with the Gamecube, or even Nintendo trying to push the envelope in terms of hardware. The Gamecube failed to sell as well as the SNES / Nintendo 64 because it had a bunch of semi off-putting / quirky first party software.
Thats why me and most of my friends left Nintendo that generation, not because the Gamecube was purple and had a handle, it was because stuff like Luigi's Mansion, Wind Waker, and Super Mario Sunshine, just didn't appeal to the majority of gaming tweens / teens.
Your joking right? Gamecube had some of the most impressive 3rd party games that generation and great exclusives. Nintendo actually threw out all the stops and tried to go blow for blow with Sony, every genre was covered and there were a crap load of mature games. PS2 obviously had a poopiedoodoocacapoopledoople ton more games overall and thus (arguably) more good exclusives but anyone who says Gamecubes problem was too many unappealing 1st Party titles either never had a gamecube or didn't know where to shop for games. Please watch the profanity — TBD
They push boundaries in some areas, while at the same time falling behind in others, as cool as the gamepad was, a lot of the gaming audience was more like, meh'....
I'm not sure that's really the case. I think more to the point a large section of the market was more interested in improving the visuals of the HD gen consoles. People have big TVs now, they want to show them off. The Wii U is a product that kinda ignores all of that in some respect.
That doesn't mean people think the GamePad idea is "meh", I don't think that's the case at all. The people who have had a go at this GamePad idea whether it be Nintendo's implementation or those from Sony or NVidia are impressed. People rave about the idea of off-TV play across the board. This idea that somehow they missed the mark on this isn't reflected in the opinions of people who have used it. Again, the problem is that it runs counter to what most people were expecting. Something which can be great if you can convince people that it is something they want.
The OP listed four ideas that Nintendo have pushed and of those four two have been hugely successful for Nintendo. The third, 3D, didn't do that great but wasn't exactly a detractor or something Nintendo was alone in pushing. The idea of the GamePad is something that the people who have used do like. So saying it's bad of Nintendo to be pushing this sort of innovation is ignoring the 50% financial success they've had doing this and the more different 50% they've had in pleasing enthusiasts.
Some playlists: Top All Time Songs, Top Last Year
"Don't stir the pot" is a nice way of saying "they're too dumb to reason with"
100 mil wiis 150mil DS'
Nintendo just isn't good at brute forcing their way into anything - they tried with the Gamecube. That's Microsofts gig
Edit: yep
$500million marketing for original xbox
$375million to buy RARE
$500million marketing Kinect.
IMO, I said it before and I'll say it again, there is nothing wrong with the Gamecube, or even Nintendo trying to push the envelope in terms of hardware. The Gamecube failed to sell as well as the SNES / Nintendo 64 because it had a bunch of semi off-putting / quirky first party software.
Thats why me and most of my friends left Nintendo that generation, not because the Gamecube was purple and had a handle, it was because stuff like Luigi's Mansion, Wind Waker, and Super Mario Sunshine, just didn't appeal to the majority of gaming tweens / teens.
Your joking right? Gamecube had some of the most impressive 3rd party games that generation and great exclusives. Nintendo actually threw out all the stops and tried to go blow for blow with Sony, every genre was covered and there were a crap load of mature games. PS2 obviously had a poopiedoodoocacapoopledoopledoodoo ton more games overall and thus (arguably) more good exclusives but anyone who says Gamecubes problem was too many unappealing 1st Party titles either never had a gamecube or didn't know where to shop for games.
No, I'm not joking, you had to be there at the time, in 2001 and 2002...........A lot of people were put off by the unveiling of Luigi's Mansion, Pikmin, Wind Waker, Super Mario Sunshine, etc. I know it seems odd in retrospection, because they are hailed as great games now, but at the time they seemed like quirky, even, yes, unappealing off-shoots,......like Nintendo was losing their edge. Just go back and look at all of the negative articles. Even with Metroid Prime, a lot of people were throwing up red flags, a FPS Metroid game by a first time developer, what the hell?
The GCN era may have catered to a more mature crowd in some aspects, but it kinda pales to the Nintendo 64 era IMO. At the time Nintendo was the leader in establishing the credentials of what a 3D polygonal game should be, top of the pack hardware rise, and Rare was a "huge" factor in appealing to more mature gamers. I also disagree that Nintendo published the variety of genres covered by Microsoft and Sony during the early 2000's.
They push boundaries in some areas, while at the same time falling behind in others, as cool as the gamepad was, a lot of the gaming audience was more like, meh'....
I'm not sure that's really the case. I think more to the point a large section of the market was more interested in improving the visuals of the HD gen consoles. People have big TVs now, they want to show them off. The Wii U is a product that kinda ignores all of that in some respect.
That doesn't mean people think the GamePad idea is "meh", I don't think that's the case at all. The people who have had a go at this GamePad idea whether it be Nintendo's implementation or those from Sony or NVidia are impressed. People rave about the idea of off-TV play across the board. This idea that somehow they missed the mark on this isn't reflected in the opinions of people who have used it. Again, the problem is that it runs counter to what most people were expecting. Something which can be great if you can convince people that it is something they want.
The OP listed four ideas that Nintendo have pushed and of those four two have been hugely successful for Nintendo. The third, 3D, didn't do that great but wasn't exactly a detractor or something Nintendo was alone in pushing. The idea of the GamePad is something that the people who have used do like. So saying it's bad of Nintendo to be pushing this sort of innovation is ignoring the 50% financial success they've had doing this and the more different 50% they've had in pleasing enthusiasts.
The gamepad is pushing the boundaries, although I'll repeat it, a lot of people do not care for it's concept / implementation, did you read that Nintendo Life article from a day or two back?
As far as pushing the benchmark, why isn't graphics considered? Many a Nintendo gamer will say that graphics "don't matter", well............they aren't the be all / end all, but yes, they actually do matter to a lot of people. Gamers get hyped by new consoles when it establishes that image of being that shiny, cutting edge piece of tech-toy underneath your TV. You have other issues at hand as well, Microsoft and Sony are both doing a pretty bang up job in establishing a multi-tasking, fast, easy to operate OS, that feels like the one stop shop for you living room.
So yeah, Nintendo may be pushing the boundaries in some regards, but so is Microsoft and Sony, they just made the right choices this time around.
In the end it comes down to games. The Wii had the games. The NES had the games. DS had the games. In the end people buy the box to get to Mario.
Wii U and 3DS don't have what the majority of consumers want. They managed to screw up 2D Mario. Consumer confidence in Nintendo is low.
In the end it comes down to games. The Wii had the games. The NES had the games. DS had the games. In the end people buy the box to get to Mario.
Wii U and 3DS don't have what the majority of consumers want. They managed to screw up 2D Mario. Consumer confidence in Nintendo is low.
The 3DS is doing quite well actually, just cause its not DS material doesn't mean it isn't fairing badly. In fact its doing really damn good for a portable console.
And look I'm not going to sit here and defend everything Nintendo does, but for goodness sakes the last thing we need is Nintendo to become more like the competition and even less noticeable from the crowd. Marketing is extremely important and Ninten's just been doing a lack luster job at it, I know its an old excuse, but its the truth. Games are great and we need more of course....but we need to market these games, what's the point if nobody knows about them. So to sum it all up, no I don't think Nintendo needs to give up on stuff like this, but I also don't think they should ignore the competition entirely.
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Pushing visuals isn't playing with people's expectations or carving out new ideas. It's to be expected, every new piece of hardware is going to be more powerful than the one that came before. In five years none of these consoles will be particularly powerful and then what are we left with in their wake? You need disruptive ideas otherwise the market becomes stagnant.
And that article which I did read I think was off the mark. The ridiculous thing about this idea that they should drop the GamePad is that people saying it start out by saying "it's unique, great and a key selling point but". My view is that if it's all of those things why are we blaming the GamePad? Why do we say it's such a bad idea if we all think it's great? Why is it bad on the Wii U but cool on the PS4? And if it is a failed feature then ok, let Nintendo roll the dice again. We need companies that are willing to take a risk like that. However if it's getting that much praise then clearly something else is to blame.
IMO it comes down to the more than just the GamePad, the GamePad is just the easy target. Really the Wii U is in the place it is mostly because of software support, pricing and the fact that it is sandwiched between the 360 and PS4. That's what it usually comes down to. Look at the Vita, it's by far the better piece of hardware and the price is pretty compelling. Why would you buy one though when the 3DS has that much more software?
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Topic: Nintendo consoles too focused on physical attributes?
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