Topic: Demand Final Fantasy XV on the Wii U

The Xbox One is superior to the Wii U. This much is not debatable when it comes to hardware, and the Xbox One still has trouble keeping up sometimes in a few next gen titles.That is how I know performance would suffer at certain peaks. If a superior console takes a hit in particularly intense situations, so will "inferior" hardware. I learned this from Gametrailers.com, where they show a side to side comparison of certain moments in certain games, and the Xbox One's performance has brief lapses of poor performances because of all that's going on. Outside of DirectX 11, it is the engine that matters. DirectX 11 isn't the part that matters on retail copies, it is the engine in which the game runs. In this case, it is the Luminous engine. Let's say that hypothetically, that the Wii U can keep up with everything except the full 1080p graphic standard (Not upscaled graphics). There's still the big issue of poor demand.

Demand for XV ony Wii U is so low it is not even worth mentioning. Much less to a big company like Square Enix. You are right and wrong about projected sales figures. 100,000,000 units is virtually impossible. The only game in all of history that has reached over 100 million is Tetris, which dates all the way back to 1984, and is still being sold to this day. Even half of that like you say would equate to about 1 billion dollars. 50,000,000 X 60 divided by about 3, which is about how much the actual company makes off of each game sold. They don't need to make 1 billion dollars to be profitable lol. That would be impossible anyway even if every single PS4 and Xbox One owner combined bought a copy of XV, because it still wouldn't equal 50,000,000 consoles in the market. If you disregard everything I just said (Sales figures like that can't possibly be accurate for an unreleased game lol), I want you guys to focus on this.

Everyone fighting for XV on WIi U, you are now Square Enix. I'd say Tetsuya Nomura himself, but he has little say on these things in actuality, based on a KH interview late last year where fans were asking for certain things for their specific countries and regions, and he told them they had to take it up with square because he had no say. Now, as impossible as it is, you stumble across this very thread. For starters, when less than 100,000 people even want such a thing, why is your interest stimulated? In this case, it doesn't even appear to be 20,000 people. As someone who is responsible for making the company and it's shareholders a profit, why do you entertain the idea of porting something to a console, with the few amount who are interested? I'm sure we can agree this game is costing them some good money, but no one other than the members of the company know just how much, and I do mean no one. So if it costs X amount of money to port to the Wii U, and it only ends up selling 70,000 in it's first year based on demand, why should you, someone in charge of making money, spend more money porting it than you would get in return? What makes the small profit for all the effort required worth it? And this didn't happen at the beginning of production, as Square, you are stumbling across this when you are far into development. Why take the risk?

I just want a better understanding of the reasoning behind the counter arguments. Sure having it available to everyone would be great, but from a company's point of view, why should they attempt this so late in the game with little to no demand?

The Wii U hardware is designed differently than the Xbox One or PS4, it requires a different way to allocate date. Game Engines are what allocate this data. If there is a Engine built to work with Xbox One and PS4 (which have similar archtecture) it would be difficult to easily port it to Wii U, messing with a game engine is risky. (may cause big problems such as bugs or crashes) Would it be worth it for Square Enix to mess with their Engine so it works on Wii U? In my opinion, Yes. Does this mean FFXV will be profitable on Wii U? No. What this does mean is in the future Square Enix can port games much easier and cheaper. This could mean that Square-Enix games have a chance to profit on Wii U. In my opinion it is better to leave their options open. So can FFXV run on Wii U? probably not in its current state but with some reworking yes. How much will this affect Square-Enix? Short-term hurt profits, Long-term open them up to make more money but it may not pay-off.

I think porting the Kingdom Hearts remakes would be a smart idea. A) they figure out how easy or hard it is to port to Wii U. B) they find out if they have a market on Wii U. C) Kingdom Hearts is already popular on 3DS, they can expand into Wii U from there. D) Reach new fans they may not have gotten if they did not take the risk.

Long story short: It is risky but with so many unknown variables I think they need to try before giving up on Wii U.

@Janfeae
You're still forgetting that they haven't optimized this stuff on ANY of these consoles. Xbox One runs CoD Ghosts at 720p, and PS4 runs it at 1080p, BUT PS4 also had framerate issues during the campaign. So ya, optimizing and making the software more efficient will make these games run better. It's just a matter of that Wii U requires well developed software, so it's not as easy to just dump things on there.

×86 is easier to use to an extent, and can generally brute force software to run, whether it's optimized or not, but that actually gives Wii U a greater purpose in this generation than people will give it credit for. PowerPC runs things differently, so obviously it's not gonna run software the same way.

You can't compare 2GB of PPC RAM to 8GB of ×86 RAM. The sooner people figure that out, the sooner they won't look naive, and this is truth.

EDIT: Also, there's still 2 years before this game comes out, supposedly, so we should probably not be basing our expectations on today. You're right about the sale count. My point was that a s*** ton of people are gonna have to buy it for it to be worthwhile, regardless. I still think at least 20 million consoles by 2016 would get the game on Wii U, but WTF do I know?

Starting off, I am not referring to any game that spans over this and last generation like COD. I'm talking about games that are too powerful for last gen hardware. They made different versions of all of those games, and therefore suffered having smooth running games. As I stated before, numbers don't lie. And on top of that, the Wii U dedicates one whole GB to the OS which only leaves ONE GB for games. 1 GB to 7 is not naivety. 2GB of RAM can in no way handle what 8GB can. 2GB and 8GB can be the difference of having 1,000 enemy AI on the screen, compared to having 10,000 AI. It's not some insignificant number in the designing process that's just there just to be there. Using the 1,000 heartless battle again, do I think a Wii U could handle 1,000 or even 5,000 enemy AI on a screen at a time. I absolutely do. Do I think the Wii U, PS3, or Xbox 360 can handle 10,000 enemy AI running in the background at the same time, on top of graphic, lightning, shading, and particle effects? Absolutely not. The PS4 can handle much more going on at once than a Wii U can. 2GB of Ram would be the equivalent of of having your music player on your computer open, accompanied by about 14 tabs open at once and a program or two running in the background. 2GB of RAM cannot handle all of that times 4.

It all comes down to one harsh, nonnegotiable truth. Outside of the realm of opinions when it comes to things like who has the better games, or the better console, the harsh fact is the PS4 is a lot stronger than the WII U. The Wii U and and PS4 are not in the same field, and you simply can't pretend that they are. Games that are designed with the PS4 in mind (not 360, PS3 and so forth) are going to be too powerful for the Wii U, even with turned down graphics, because it IS NOT the hurdle that the WIi U needs to jump across. A computer system can run 1080p in 1p if it so wished, so graphics were never the issue in this matter, ever. It is the power that is required to run the in game engine. This includes things you can see, and things you cannot. Sure you may see your character fighting a couple of enemies with lots of graphic effects, but what you don't see is the rocks crumbling on the mountainside, the giant waterfall flowing in the area you just passed 1 minute ago, the AI that have already spawned that you cannot see, and that goes on and on. If it were just a matter of turning down the graphics, there would be absolutely no reason for them not to bring it to WIi U. For what it would cost them, it would be well worth it even short term, but that's not the case at all. You can't have a computer from 2006 and say I'll run next gen games if I turn the graphics down to 144p. That is not how it works.

But I give up lol I have l stated some good facts but both sides are a moot point entirely. This tread is called Demand Final Fantasy XV on the Wii U. If you ever hope to see it, that is EXACTLY what you all must do. Another harsh reality that is fact is that as of today, they are not porting it to Wii U. I don't think it can quite handle everything, but again lets say it can. We'll agree that if they throw enough money at it, even if it can't handle the game in full in reality, that they can still make a working version on Wii U. But why should they throw the money required toward this port, if there's no demand? Why would Nintendo ship 2 million more consoles into stores, if the demand is not there and there are WIi U's available in every participating store? Supply and Demand. If Demand is high enough, Supply in this case will subsequently exist. Right now Supply does not exist, because there is no Demand. You guys aren't even a speck on Square's radar right now, so you've got to change that. They won't ever see this thread, but companies do see petitions when big enough to be relevant. With only 600 or so signatures, you guys have some work to do, so spread the word! You don't have as much time as people would tell you (like late 2016, early 2017..for XV anyway), but you sure do have some good time, so don't waste time ranting about it and instead, get some like minded people to help make a difference.

I'm sure the desire is burning, so I believe with a lot of effort, you can bring this game to the Big N. I support you all in this, and wish you the best! Especially you Oragami! lol Prove the neigh sayers wrong by capturing Square Enix's attention. I believe in you guys

Sorry, but this isn't going to happen. The Wii U can not handle a game that is being developed for PS4 and X1. End of story. I'm planning to get XV on the PS4 when the day comes.

based on what?

@Janfeae
You're still comparing 2GB of PPC RAM to ×86 RAM. I realize that PS4 and Xbox One have more RAM, but I don't think it specifically matters for this game or KH3. If you've seen the trailers for these games, the graphics aren't even that much better than last gen anyway, and there aren't nearly as many enemies on screen as we've seen on a 7th gen game, anyway. Yet, at least.

Graphics don't necessarily have everything to do with how they design a game in the first place. Besides, Wii U has 2× RAM and more processing power than last gen anyway. If you consider that Wii U has 2× the specs as last gen, you expect twice as much performance in your software, because that's how PPC works. Go look at an Apple computer from before they went to ×86. The specs don't just double like Nintendo's have in one year, so Nintendo's console is 8th gen. It's not even debatable.

I'm not arguing the difference between any of these consoles. If you look at the Wii U by itself, it can do alot more than people give it credit for. The difference between PPC and ×86 is skewed in comparison, so you're wasting your time in doing so. You can't even really compare Xbox One to PS4. They have similar architecture and specs in some areas, but there's actually a point where Xbox One favors a different area of performance than PS4. If you think Xbox One and PS4 are the same deal, you're not understanding the specs. Comparing Wii U to either of those is even more of a joke.

EDIT: Also, some of your points aren't really relevant. PS4 had framerate issues on a last gen game(CoD Ghosts). Killzone can't even reach 60FPS, etc. Looking at your program tabs scenario, it depends on how demanding each program you're running, is. If you're running a game, the industry standard hardly ever pushes that beyond 1GB, because that's strictly interactions in game, not the graphic power. It could be, but that's not specifically what Wii U or Xbox One are using it for. PS4 isn't using eDRAM at all, and that tells us that Xbox One and Wii U require on the fly processes that are escorted separately from the RAM.

Lastly, go look at GCN vs. Xbox. GCN was PPC and Xbox was ×86. GCN had a little more than half of the Xbox specs, but they were still in the same league.

@Janfeae
Another point would be Project Cars. It's a game running DX11 on all 3.

Hardware resource use:
Wii U - 1 CPU core, GPU, RAM, eDRAM
Xbox One - processes across 4 CPU cores, GPU, RAM, eSRAM
PS4 - processes across 4 CPU cores, GPU, RAM(basically the Xbox One build, minus eSRAM)

http://nintendoenthusiast.com/news/project-cars-wii-u-technic...
http://www.cinemablend.com/games/Project-CARS-Hits-Some-Hardw...

So Wii U is running all the processes off of 1 CPU core, because it can multithread, while the ×86 consoles are running the game off of 4 CPU cores. The only possible benefit I've seen from Xbox One and PS4, is a possible higher framerate and resolution. However, more dedication to PPC would hold the same result, but work still needs to be done. So actually, the gap between Wii U and the other consoles is becoming smaller, at least for the time being, until they figure out these consoles even more so. They've barely scratched the surface, so drawing conclusions is not welcome.

Lol SCAR392, I said I was done because we're talking in circles and I specifically stated, graphics don't mean anything. It's okay to disagree of course, but to reiterate yet again,

"The Wii U and and PS4 are not in the same field, and you simply can't pretend that they are. Games that are designed with the PS4 in mind (not 360, PS3 and so forth) are going to be too powerful for the Wii U, even with turned down graphics, because it IS NOT the hurdle that the WIi U needs to jump across. A computer system can run 1080p in 1p if it so wished, so graphics were never the issue in this matter, ever. It is the power that is required to run the in game engine. This includes things you can see, and things you cannot. Sure you may see your character fighting a couple of enemies with lots of graphic effects, but what you don't see is the rocks crumbling on the mountainside, the giant waterfall flowing in the area you just passed 1 minute ago, the AI that have already spawned that you cannot see, and that goes on and on. If it were just a matter of turning down the graphics, there would be absolutely no reason for them not to bring it to WIi U. For what it would cost them, it would be well worth it even short term, but that's not the case at all. You can't have a computer from 2006 and say I'll run next gen games if I turn the graphics down to 144p. That is not how it works."

I would put certain points in bold, but I'm new to this forum and don't know how to post advanced messages yet.

Graphically, virtually any game this Gen can be turned down to run on the WIi U. It is the poooooower good sir/mam, the poooooower lol You say RAM doesn't matter but it is a vital component; absolutely vital. The Wii U only has one free GB of Ram to run things, only one. In short, If the WIi U needed too, it could NOT run 10,000 AI being active at the same time; AKA really large set pieces with a lot going on. 1GB of Random Access Memory can not run all of these things. A lot of true next gen games require 4GB and above. Most of the games available now, do not require that much power or RAM. They can even run on last gen. With what you're saying, why isn't a Wii U on par with an Xbox One. Both run at 720p, so if things like RAM don't matter, how come it isn't on par? I could go on about the other components that make the two systems superior when it comes to next gen games from a hardware standpoint, but it is not my opinion when it comes to games in development. There are games that are beyond the Wii U's capabilities. I won't agitate you guys anymore on the topic of XV and KH3, but you sure better believe there are games in development beyond the scopes of the WII U.

And my conclusion wasn't a lie either. Right now, they are not making a Wii U version. It has been expressly stated in multiple interviews, that these title's are PS4 and Xbox One exclusives. That is why this thread exists in the first place. The reality is, if people want something to be done about it, their voices must be heard. Their current voice isn't even 1,000 people strong yet. I don't want to argue with you guys, but what I say is true. The Wii U cannot handle every next gen title, and right now, there are no plans to bring it to Wii U. Both are facts, and not my personal opinion. I realize this will only induce another response but it should end here. I don't doubt your knowledge on the subjects, but I think you are both overestimating the WIi U, and underestimating the PS4. Either way, I'm still rooting for you guys.

@Janfeae
I didn't say RAM didn't matter. I said that PPC RAM and ×86 RAM is different, so comparing them is pointless.

The difference is literally in the architecture. The rest of your post is a hypothesis, so good luck figuring that out.

Woof.
Just get it on PC if it never makes it to the Wii U. They've been bringing a bunch of FFs to the PC lately - wouldn't be even a bit surprised if the newest one finds its way there, too.

LOL. YOU'RE SO WRONG. I agree with the second half the first half is wrong.

Being exclusive to Microsoft and Sony is not my hypothesis, theory, or opinion, right now it is fact; and so Is my statement about there being games in development that are beyond the scopes of the power of the Wii U. The difference in PPC and x86 only furthers my old points, and doesn't help the other side of the argument. Continuing to point that out only hurts its chances of coming to the Wii U. There is a big difference between the two. Like, Mac and PC difference. This does nothing to help it come to the WIi U, it makes it even harder than it already is because the two are not compatible. This means for a port to the Wii U to happen, unlike the Xbox One it is something they have to work around if they wish to have it run on a Wii U's OS. It's why having a x86 Mac, doesn't mean you can run Windows software, and conversely why it doesn't mean a Wii U can run PS4 hardware at its leisure. As you continue to point out, they are architecturally different, which means even more trouble when it comes to porting it to a system that is so different that the systems it was designed for.

You say you never said that it doesn't really matter in relation to these games, but to quote you, "You're still comparing 2GB of PPC RAM to ×86 RAM. I realize that PS4 and Xbox One have more RAM, but I don't think it specifically matters for this game or KH3" It is important in big games like this, especially when the developer has such ambitious projects and implementations in mind. It is not like comparing Red to Blue, no matter the type or manufacturer, when it comes to what it actually is, Random Access Memory, one of the two is superior, and by a very considerable gap. They have comparison charts for these kinds of things, and you can find them fairly easily. I really don't want to take this any further lol I really don't. Even if Nintendo and Square said it themselves, I still think you guys would push regardless and continue to disagree, which is fine. As I continue to say, don't waste your time on people like me, and make your desires known to the company responsible for the decision. Right now, demand for a Wii U version has to be strong enough for them to even consider a WIi U counterpart. Forget compatibility and porting costs; in an optimistic light, there is still no demand for the Wii U. As a company, you don't flood the market with supply, when there is no demand. This is the hurdle you guys have to overcome, this. You also ignored the part where I said that with enough money, it is possible. That much isn't really debatable either, it is likely fact. But Square has to see it as worthwhile to go through all the trouble that is required to get a game like XV to run on a WII U, when it had no such plans from the start.

As you say, the two consoles are very different, but that is the second biggest reason why there are no plans as of now. Step one is creating demand. Its like asking for other AAA titles to come to the Wii U. Most won't because the demand is high for the other two consoles and very low for the Wii U. It seems most would rather spend the extra 100$ for a PS4 to play multiplatform titles for the next coupe of years, and people buy the Wii U mostly for 1st part content, and content they can't get anywhere else like Bayonetta 2. So for like the 4rd time lol going on the premise that it's possible, it still won't help you guys if the there is no demand for it. You guys have to show the company that there is demand, not the people in this thread. Only then will it be within the realms of actuality. People have done it before, so I believe in you guys.

@Janfeae
I wasn't even talking about the game being only on Xbox and PS. I know they currently don't have plans to port it to Wii U. That is a given, and why this thread exists in the first place.
I said the RAM doesn't matter in this case, because there isn't much going in terms of interaction that couldn't have been done on PS3 or Xbox 360. Xbox One and PS4 are using 5GB of RAM and Wii U is using 1GB of RAM. Aside from the graphics in these cross-gen games, the RAM isn't really doing any extra work, so it doesn't make sense why anyone would say that it is. The same applies to FFXV, because the game was originally in development for PS3. This generation hasn't even really started from a technical point of view.

Lastly, Nintendo and Square Enix haven't said anything. I wouldn't even be on this thread if SE or Nintendo said, "No FFXV on Wii U".

EDIT: If 3rd party games are selling Xbox and PS consoles, the same could easily be said for Wii U, if 3rd parties decide to support Wii U. SE put FF and KH on Xbox without history of demand at all.

I think fan inflation makes strange sequels where there should be none. I'll admit I loved Persona 4, FF VII, and the first Kingdom Hearts...but then we get a slew on unnecessary sequels and spinoffs that cheapen the brand, try to act way too serious, and waste time where it could be MUCH better invested. Certain brand/game loyalty/obsession will do that, and I think it's pushing the gaming industry into a much more Hollywood-esque place. When reviewers gushed over Persona 4 Golden like the extra fanservice made it the most deep and original game ever ...part of the gamer inside me died.

So, in the end, I "demanded" XV on Wii U, and they gave me the much better invested "X" instead...I thanked them for correcting my error in judgement.

That comment was in relation to what you said about it being a hypothesis AKA opinion, when those two things (Demand and games currently in development being beyond the Wii U) at the very least are not. Porting is several times easier with the Xbox One, because the hardware is similar, and is the reason why such a thing is happening. Other than that, it would still be a playstation exclusive, because that is the model they've been using all this time. Microsoft and Sony's models are similar this time, so it poses no problem. It can really only stand to gain from porting it to XBONE unless of course, it's install base doesn't want it; but as I saw around e3, there was a maaaassive war brewing over this game and KH3. Playstation fans (fanboys really -_-) were upset at them getting it, and they were met head on with Microsoft fans who said it's better this way because they can play it too, and it doesn't affect them personally. XV itself has huge demand because of how long this game has been in development. And the 360 and PS3 don't help with what you're conveying either either. The PS3 was the stronger of the two, but Versus XIII wasn't even possible on the PS3, as I said in an earlier post. It still wasn't enough to run the game that Nomura wanted to make, so it switched to the PS4 which allowed them to implement the original concept. Aside from RAM altogether, that's just one potential issue. I said I wouldn't go there, because I'm sure it's stuff you know already. I am nooooooot against you guys lol

I have to agree and disagree about this generation not being started yet though. The games we have now? No, not at all. Any game out now was really developed with 2006 hardware in mind (PS3, 360). The games in development right now releasing late 2014 to mid/late 2016? Absolutely. XV falls within that category and KH3 most definitely does. Were supposed to be getting news on XV in the near future (hopefully before e3 in 3 months), so we'll see if new plans for the Wii u have emerged. I definitely wouldn't hold my breath though.

I'm tempted to call you a troll, but that would mean that you don't actually believe what you're saying, which would actually be giving you the benefit of the doubt...

Thanks! And I agree that the game would have to take a technical hit to be on the Wii U, but as I stated earlier, I don't mind that.

To everyone saying, "We don't need Final Fantasy XV because we have X," that's like saying, "The Dreamcast didn't need Marvel vs. Capcom 2 because it had Soul Calibur." Think about that.

I just had a thought. Instead of arguing whether or not Square-Enix would consider porting FFXV to the Wii U, let's just imagine that they are strongly considering it. Who would be in support of this in that situation?