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Topic: Yooka-Laylee

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Haruki_NLI

Review scores are this way because of, at one point, retail stores bought places that were popular with reviews (Gamestop...hint hint).

When those were bought this carried on as normal, but on the storefront, it becomes a way to push sales with numbers attached. The numbers had value associated to them throuvh this connection, and uktimately its hurt the industry.

We are almost at a point where 8 is the lowest acceptable score on a 10 point scale. But as more games hit that 8 and above, there will be a problem: too many games viewed as good to great so quantifying them all against one another in ratings becomes harder, as reviewers have to say "Well I liked this here...but in this other game I rated lower this thing I like is also present". Games through this are inevitably compared - see Horizon and Zelda, two great very different games.

So in an effort to keep games from clogging what is seen as good and to stop unwanted comparisons, the limit for what is good has to increase. Remember when it was a 6? I do.

This is why scores need to go. The more games there are, the less room there is to rank thrm like sites such as metacritic want to do, all because it became tied to value of money in a purchase and as such, the scale shrinks to prevent choking.

Its also why I believe comparisons shouldnt be made between games. Review the product the consumer pays for, not what came before.

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Octane

@BLP_Software To be fair, two big AAA, exclusive, open-world, post-apocalyptic, adventure games featuring laser shooting robots and stealth + bow and arrow gameplay were always going to be compared! I have no issue with that. But I also know that, having played both, they are ultimately very different games.

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rallydefault

@BLP_Software
Totally. Grade inflation is a real thing, and not just in school (lol). You would think a 1-10 scale would have a 5 as average, and anything above as varying degrees of "above average" to "excellent."

But it seems that even scores like 6 and 7 have come to mean "disappointing" to most of the internet, which just blows my mind.

I think my system remains: Find some reviewers you seem to "trust" (however much that is possible) based on previous reviews of games you seemed to both like/dislike, and go with their impressions. Don't pay attention to scores, pay attention to thoughts and musings. I like the Youtubers who don't give scores and instead just say "recommend" or "not recommended" or something like that. And even then, that's not the point - the point is to just hear from another human being who has actually played the game.

rallydefault

AlexSays

People are so nearsighted on this site. You all realize when Twilight Princess got an 8.8 on Gamespot, people lost their minds? An 8.8... and everyone acted like the world was ending.

Nothing has changed in regards to review scores. In the early 2000's people were degrading anything less than a 7 or 8. Back then there were also the gamer hippies that exist today who were all like 'you just got to experience tis 6.5 game for yerself maaaaan'.

People don't realize your perception of the world changes much more rapidly than the world does. The internet wasn't collectively accepting of low-scoring games a decade ago.

AlexSays

rallydefault

AlexSays wrote:

People are so nearsighted on this site. You all realize when Twilight Princess got an 8.8 on Gamespot, people lost their minds? An 8.8... and everyone acted like the world was ending.

Nothing has changed in regards to review scores. In the early 2000's people were degrading anything less than a 7 or 8. Back then there were also the gamer hippies that exist today who were all like 'you just got to experience tis 6.5 game for yerself maaaaan'.

People don't realize your perception of the world changes much more rapidly than the world does. The internet wasn't collectively accepting of low-scoring games a decade ago.

You're not the chosen one with clear sight, brosef. Nobody is saying the internet was "collectively accepting of low-scoring games a decade ago," at least I'm sure as heck not. Realistically, I don't even think I really browsed the internet consistently a decade ago for game information. I was still getting my reviews from magazines like PC Gamer and EGM, both of which were certainly not afraid of doling out scores lower than 5 on a 1-10 scale (PC Gamer still isn't, God bless their souls). Also, I'm not certain, but EGM may have had a 1-100 scale or something a bit different. Regardless, they went below the 50% mark with regularity.

Bottom line: I'm not talking "the internet" exclusively. A decade ago, there WERE outlets that were grading games much more consistently than what we're seeing now.

Edited on by rallydefault

rallydefault

Spoony_Tech

@rallydefault No you are right, EGM had a scale from 1-10 but with 4 reviews of the same game. Later on I believe that changed to 3 reviews.

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TNGYM

rallydefault wrote:

AlexSays wrote:

People are so nearsighted on this site. You all realize when Twilight Princess got an 8.8 on Gamespot, people lost their minds? An 8.8... and everyone acted like the world was ending.

Nothing has changed in regards to review scores. In the early 2000's people were degrading anything less than a 7 or 8. Back then there were also the gamer hippies that exist today who were all like 'you just got to experience tis 6.5 game for yerself maaaaan'.

People don't realize your perception of the world changes much more rapidly than the world does. The internet wasn't collectively accepting of low-scoring games a decade ago.

You're not the chosen one with clear sight, brosef. Nobody is saying the internet was "collectively accepting of low-scoring games a decade ago," at least I'm sure as heck not. Realistically, I don't even think I really browsed the internet consistently a decade ago for game information. I was still getting my reviews from magazines like PC Gamer and EGM, both of which were certainly not afraid of doling out scores lower than 5 on a 1-10 scale (PC Gamer still isn't, God bless their souls). Also, I'm not certain, but EGM may have had a 1-100 scale or something a bit different. Regardless, they went below the 50% mark with regularity.

Bottom line: I'm not talking "the internet" exclusively. A decade ago, there WERE outlets that were grading games much more consistently than what we're seeing now.

Personally i feel metacritic and scores in general are a cancer...

But honestly it doesnt matter what we do, any means off communication we use to discuss how good we feel games are will be inevitably co-opted by the billion dollar gaming marketing machine and twisted into some kind of hideous homonculous, just look at what 'AAA' has become. Now these pukes are telling us they are making 'AAA' games, not just before anyone has played it, but before its even officially announced.

However one thing even I have to admit, even though game design has become horribly homogenous and mind numbing over the course of the worst generation....

A lot of those scores that went to 5 and below games were for reasons that generally just dont exist anymore... These were games that were actually broken programming wise, and in various states of playability. While games in general are designed like terds compared to the best of the 4th-6th gen, they are built vastly better in general than the average games from back then. (insert launch day patch joke here)

The natural solution would be a restructure taking that into account. Since the vast majority of games work the way they are supposed to, you dont need half the scale dedicated to measuring that anymore. The game design,pacing, story and mechanics should take up 90% of the scale.

Edited on by TNGYM

TNGYM

kkslider5552000

I find this whole thing very odd in a way. While I don't doubt there are some really valid issues with the game, I feel like some people are clueless on what the game is trying to do. (especially as a contrast to the consistent positive previews I heard) If there's anything that immediately invalidates someone's opinion for me, its this flawed assumption that genres are automatically "dated" by some point, even though most of them are still fairly beloved, and sometimes by people who never even grew up with them. ESPECIALLY late 90s games. And it isn't just nostalgia talking, as there are games I didn't care about growing up that I prefer far more now than I did back then from that era (Jet Force Gemini immediately comes to mind). And even with the actual complaints worth caring about, I was honestly expecting the reviews to be biased in a much more positive direction, ironically, just because the game is a novelty nowadays.

though granted, at least it makes more sense than when Devil's Third was compared to a PS2 game, as if PS2 has a lot of games people only liked at the time (this was a terrible comparison and everyone who said it should feel like an idiot)

My hope is that they will improve performance in the next couple of months though. That's the N64 nostalgia I don't need.

Edited on by kkslider5552000

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rallydefault

Spoony_Tech wrote:

@rallydefault No you are right, EGM had a scale from 1-10 but with 4 reviews of the same game. Later on I believe that changed to 3 reviews.

Ah, yes, that's how they did it! Thank you!

@TNGYM
You do make a great point.

@kkslider5552000
Yea, as a Switch owner, I'm actually kind of hopeful that our version of the game will benefit from more time and reaction to the first reviews. And like someone else said, if looked into it we would probably find that Nintendo "folks" provided the majority of the backing for this game. It would be pretty sweet to see the definitive version end up on Nintendo console after all.

As for addressing the complaints people are making, I won't say anything until I've actually played it. The complaints could be very valid, or they could be exactly what you say: just missing the point of what the game was very clear it was trying to do.

Edited on by rallydefault

rallydefault

NEStalgia

I most respect the few critics that do NOT use a numeric score of any kind. Distilling games into a numeric score is a bad idea in general. Most sites do it because that's what's expected. They also do it because without it there's no exposure in metacritic, and without exposure in metacritic your reviews may as well not exist, unfortunately. But reviewers that do NOT score, intend for you to READ the text to learn what the strengths and weaknesses are and if it's a game for you or not. Most reviews nobody even reads the text, they just scroll to the numeric score and move on. You can't quantify in a number WHAT you like or dislike about it and who else may like or dislike that.

Gene Siskel & Roger Ebert had a good thing going. Thumbs up, thumbs down. Watch it, or don't watch it. Play it, or don't play it. Along with bullet points about why you might want to or not want to watch/play it.

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Lethal

Number ratings give you a general idea of where the game falls compared to other games with higher or lower scores. If another game you really enjoyed scored a 7 from that same critic, you will be more likely to buy another game with the same score. Nothing wrong with giving games scores.

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Ralizah

@DarthNocturnal Good to hear. I wonder how possible it is to address complaints about the in-game camera...

I imagine the patches at the moment are focusing on performance stability.

EDIT: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2017-04-05-yooka-laylee-xbo...

Sounds like they are addressing issues with the camera. Good to hear. That was my biggest concern.

Edited on by Ralizah

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erv

All the review texts read like virtue signaling. More so than any others in a while.

I'm wondering what the game is really like. I think I'll really like it.

I'll probably buy it when it comes out on switch.

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NaviAndMii

IGN's rating system is:
10/10 - Masterpiece
9/10 - Amazing
8/10 - Great
7/10 - Good
6/10 - Okay (etc.)

They gave Yooka-Laylee 7/10...the reviewer thought this was a good game!

Some of the issues (the frame-rate dips, the dodgy camera perhaps?) can be fixed with a patch - maybe they won't be in the Switch version by the time it's released?

Being honest, the multiplayer segments and the mini-games don't look particularly fun - and I can understand that some feel the worlds are a little too big and unimaginative - but try to remember that this game is being compared with Banjo...most agree that Yooka captures Banjo's spirit - but maybe Banjo is 'great' or 'amazing', and Yooka is just a 'good' (non-)sequel...but good still mean good! Most people think it's a good game - and maybe some fixes will make it even better

Edited on by NaviAndMii

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FragRed

@Tsurii Actually it's more like

10/10 Oh my God this is the most amazing game ever. Screw you Xboners/Ponys/Nintendrones
9/10 I don't get how it got a 9 when there were no negatives in the review
8/10 I'll wait till it's on sale.
7/10 Entire uproar of hate and anger that spreads to death threats aimed at developers and/or reviewer over said over hyped game.
6/10 Oh my God this game is totally crap! Xboners/Ponys/Nintendrones only have crap games compared to my system.... (inserts list of games on system of choice)

Etc.

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Joeynator3000

....Anyways I wasn't really expecting this to be the greatest game ever, so I'm fine. The group just got back together and want to revive the old N64 days. I'm pretty sure Yooka-Tooley will be even better.
...Tooley?...Twoley....Meh, whatever.

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GrailUK

Erm, it has been that way since the 80's. CVG Game of the Month / Hits, Crash Smashes, Zzap Gold Medal and Sizzlers. Any game scoring 89% or above earned a special label! It gave reviews an anticipation and made you want to buy the magazine (or read it in Smiths lol). It has never been the fact that 60% was regarded as crap, more underwhelming or average. With so many amazing games to play, a person needs to be a focused genre gamer or have more money than sense to entertain a purchase. Underwhelming is disappointing. 60% isn't rubbish, but if you need 70% to get to college, then it is a fail. It all depends on how high your bar is set I guess.

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NaviAndMii

@GrailUK As a fellow reader that the 'Smith's Library', I'm with you! ...the way I see it: if Breath of the Wild gets 9's and 10's across the board, the best we could have hoped for with Yooka-Laylee was an 8 - but it's getting 7's and 6's...with a few fixes it could be a solid 7 - pushing an 8...those games are worth playing if it looks like your kind of game. Best advice: watch some footage - if you like what you see, give it a try!

Edited on by NaviAndMii

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Grumblevolcano

Yooka-Laylee digital backer codes for the game are now being sent! I've got mine for XB1 and is currently predownloading.

On another note, the XB1 update seems to have dealt with a lot of the performance issues according to

Grumblevolcano

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