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Topic: A new low: Capcom tacitly condoning sexual harassment?

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dizzy_boy

41. Posted:

there`s nothing wrong with freedom of speach. but i would have thought that there are laws prevent people from saying such derogatory remarks in public, regardlees of personal beliefs.
atleast one good thing has come from this. if that guy does get taken to court over his silly little rant, it`s caught on tape and he cannot deny any of his crude remarks.

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pixelman

42. Posted:

imho "freedom of speech" should have a sister clause called "freedom to punch losers in their worthless faces."

Unfortunately, that would be abused as badly as freedom of speech is.

I'm sure there are some legal issues and Capcom opted to play it (arguably?) safe instead of doing the right thing. They could and should have said something more than that generic disclaimer though.

They need to do something fast to turn things around for them though, because they're losing big points with their fanbase.
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Corbs

43. Posted:

I've always felt that talk is cheap. When it comes to competitive gaming, your skills should be all the talking you need. And if Capcom doesn't put a stop to that type of abuse, I'm not buying another game from them. I don't give a f**k what the game is.

Edited on by Corbs

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Radixxs

44. Posted:

my_point_is wrote:

there`s nothing wrong with freedom of speach. but i would have thought that there are laws prevent people from saying such derogatory remarks in public, regardlees of personal beliefs.
atleast one good thing has come from this. if that guy does get taken to court over his silly little rant, it`s caught on tape and he cannot deny any of his crude remarks.

That goes completely against the Bill of Rights. Anyone who is sexual harrassed in a supervised setting can report it, and all things depending the offender could be punished. At least, that's my understanding, I'm by no means an expert on the subject. I just know if someone reports sexual harrasent at a school or office it results in pretty serious punishment.

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Bankai

45. Posted:

my_point_is wrote:

there`s nothing wrong with freedom of speach. but i would have thought that there are laws prevent people from saying such derogatory remarks in public, regardlees of personal beliefs.
atleast one good thing has come from this. if that guy does get taken to court over his silly little rant, it`s caught on tape and he cannot deny any of his crude remarks.

There's a lot wrong with freedom of speech, actually.

The main problem being that people seem to believe freedom of speech doesn't also come with implied responsibilty. They then ignore the responsibilty and end up damaging the social environment.

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Aviator

46. Posted:

As much as I completely agree with what most of the comments, I don't think it would be in Capcom's best interest to completely pull their support from the stream.

Yes sexual harassment is completely wrong, and they should have acted more hardly against the offender, rather than simply sending out a general statement. But Capcom are a business, and this channel is promoting their game. Most of the recorded videos have had 8,000+ views on them, and that's 8,000 possible sales. Granted those who have tuned in regularly most like were already going to buy the game, and most probably have watched it due to recent events.

In no way am I justifying what has happened/hasn't happened, and listening to the comments whatshisface made I honestly wanted to shout at him, but, it's hard when, and this may seem wrong, sexual harassment is overlooked by looming titles. I do honestly think the situation would be different had this of occurred when the game wasn't close to being released, and we don't know to what extent Capcom 'dealt with the matter'.

At the end of the day really, your opinion on the matter comes down to your opinion on ethics. Although the comments that were made disgusted me, (and to hear that the female contestant was too distraught to play just made my heart break), byt what one person said, whose only connection to Capcom is through a stream, isn't going to affect my view on Capcom as a company.

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Stine

47. Posted:

This is some of the most disgusting crap I've heard in a while. I can't believe people like this actually exist. I'm not into fighting games at all, and this won't exactly help me get into them. Some of that stuff was so hard to listen to. And oh my God, how creepy was it when that guy started to smell her? Up until that point, I'd probably awkwardly laugh everything off just to avoid trouble, but if that creeper had started smelling me like that, I'd stop being nice.

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theblackdragon

48. Posted:

Aviator wrote:

Yes sexual harassment is completely wrong, and they should have acted more hardly against the offender, rather than simply sending out a general statement. But

wait, 'but'? there's a 'but' here? there should be no 'but' behind this statement — the people tuning in are the ones already looking to purchase this sort of game anyway. it's already going to sell like hotcakes; what the hell does Capcom need this competition/livestream for? it's fluff, or at least that's what it should've been.

Aviator wrote:

In no way am I justifying what has happened/hasn't happened,

]you just said "But Capcom are a business, and this channel is promoting their game." how is that not justifying Capcom's lack of action beyond their disclaimer statement?

Aviator wrote:

and listening to the comments whatshisface made I honestly wanted to shout at him, but, it's hard when, and this may seem wrong, sexual harassment is overlooked by looming titles. I do honestly think the situation would be different had this of occurred when the game wasn't close to being released, and we don't know to what extent Capcom 'dealt with the matter'.

I'm not exactly sure what you're saying here, but considering he was allowed to continue beyond Day 1 obviously unhindered, I think that speaks volumes regarding what 'extent' Capcom 'dealt with the matter' — e.g. they didn't. Certainly not to my satisfaction.

Aviator wrote:

At the end of the day really, your opinion on the matter comes down to your opinion on ethics. Although the comments that were made disgusted me, (and to hear that the female contestant was too distraught to play just made my heart break), byt what one person said, whose only connection to Capcom is through a stream, isn't going to affect my view on Capcom as a company.

Good to know. It's definitely affected mine, however.

Edited on by theblackdragon

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HanuKwanzMasBif

49. Posted:

You deleted my post because you didn't agree with my opinion?
It makes me wonder how many other posts you've deleted.

Edited on by HanuKwanzMasBif

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Corbs

50. Posted:

Don't push your luck. It was deleted as it seems to make light of people's opinions. While the comedian was funny, we don't want readers to think their opinions are being mocked in a discussion like this. No one is stopping you from having an opinion, just use common sense when posting please.

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k8sMum

51. Posted:

free speech is wonderful, as long as idiots who attempt to hide behind it understand that there are repercussions for being a loud-mouth, misogynisitic idiot. it does not mean one is immune from backlash. a capcom representative should have stepped in and put a stop to this. by not doing so, they condoned it, at least in appearance, and appearances are everything.

i am appalled at those who feel nothing can be done about attitudes as neanderthal as those expressed by her 'coach'. again, accepting behaviour such as this is nothing less than condoning it.

i, too, have put tons of money into capcom's vaults. as a female gamer i am not going to give them another dime until they make this right.

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Unca_Lz

52. Posted:

“That’s what you’re trying to do to the fighting game community and it’s not right,” Aris continued. “It’s ethically wrong.” This may be the first time in the history of video games that someone had said that removing sexual harassment is ethically unjust.

This truly disgusts me. It really does. He talks about everyone being "ethically unjust" when he's mocking women for being women.

“You’re trying to figure out a way to make me wrong, when I’m not wrong,” Aris argued, saying that it’s wrong to try to turn fighting games into something “everyone can enjoy,” or that you can enjoy with your girlfriend or family. “The beauty of the fighting game community, and you should know this - it’s based around not being welcome. That’s the beauty of it. That’s the key essence of it. When you walk into an arcade for the first time, nobody likes you.”

How is this great? I've never been in a group like this and frankly I don't think anyone should be associated with *ssholes like this guy :O

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James

53. Posted:

No such thing as free speech on a clearly moderated website, dudes. If you want to express absolutely any thought that comes into your head, set up your own blog.

I am not ignoring you. I just do not post much.

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theblackdragon

54. Posted:

@Jumbif, et.al: just to be clear, I have not deleted anyone's opinion from this thread. I've edited out two profanities and one slur iirc, and that's been it.

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k8sMum

55. Posted:

theblackdragon wrote:

Aviator wrote:

Yes sexual harassment is completely wrong, and they should have acted more hardly against the offender, rather than simply sending out a general statement. But

wait, 'but'? there's a 'but' here? there should be no 'but' behind this statement — the people tuning in are the ones already looking to purchase this sort of game anyway. it's already going to sell like hotcakes; what the hell does Capcom need this competition/livestream for? it's fluff, or at least that's what it should've been.

tbd is absolutely right here. i cringed when i read aviator's post as i knew that big old BUT was coming. if the slurs from the idiot had been racial, they would not have been allowed to continue, and rightly so. because they were sexist, they were. i like where one post on the link refers to it as 'sexual teasing'. euphemisms such as that make me want to puke. this was not 'teasing' but verbal, sexist assault. there can be no BUTs allowed as a pass for this sort of behaviour.

to have the idiot whinge on about 'ethics' and 'free speech' is really sickening.

Edited on by k8sMum

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Bankai

56. Posted:

free speech is wonderful, as long as idiots who attempt to hide behind it understand that there are repercussions for being a loud-mouth, misogynisitic idiot.

What's amusing is that the great enemy to America during the Cold War, Communism, is exactly the same deal. "Communism is great, as long as people don't be people."

People are idiots. It's a fact of life. I'm not just talking about having a different opinion. There are people out there, lots and lots of people, who completely lack the capacity for rational thought. As long as those people exist, free speech is a terrible idea.

Freedom of the press is the same. It's only a good idea if you work on the assumption that the press is capable of acting in an ethical manner. Which it isn't.

I get to say this because I don't live in a country with the right to free speech.

RE: What Navi said: I really do think it's important to separate business ethics from personal ethics. I've said as much in the past. Capcom found itself in a difficult position - it could either withdraw sponsorship, which given the terms of the sponsorship contract could have been incredibly unethical, or wear the controversy for sponsoring the event, which caused brand damage and was inappropriate from a corporate govenance point of view, but by business ethics, not actually wrong.

No one is defending what happened, but Navi (and myself) are simply suggesting that people remember that businesses do have a different code of ethics to people.

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k8sMum

57. Posted:

ChocoGoldfish wrote:

free speech is wonderful, as long as idiots who attempt to hide behind it understand that there are repercussions for being a loud-mouth, misogynisitic idiot.

What's amusing is that the great enemy to America during the Cold War, Communism, is exactly the same deal. "Communism is great, as long as people don't be people."

People are idiots. It's a fact of life. I'm not just talking about having a different opinion. There are people out there, lots and lots of people, who completely lack the capacity for rational thought. As long as those people exist, free speech is a terrible idea.

Freedom of the press is the same. It's only a good idea if you work on the assumption that the press is capable of acting in an ethical manner. Which it isn't.

I get to say this because I don't live in a country with the right to free speech.

RE: What Navi said: I really do think it's important to separate business ethics from personal ethics. I've said as much in the past. Capcom found itself in a difficult position - it could either withdraw sponsorship, which given the terms of the sponsorship contract could have been incredibly unethical, or wear the controversy for sponsoring the event, which caused brand damage and was inappropriate from a corporate govenance point of view, but by business ethics, not actually wrong.

No one is defending what happened, but Navi (and myself) are simply suggesting that people remember that businesses do have a different code of ethics to people.

what people who exercise free speech need to remember is that what we say has the opportunity for others to exercise that same freedom. too often idiots hide behind free speech then whinge when they get blasted for what they said. they like the highway to be one way.

it is easy for corporations to claim afterwards they in no way support what was said/done; let's them feel and (they hope) look good. except it doesn't wash. they will be tarred with the same brush. i am someone who has slogged thru the grey areas all my life. sometimes things are black/white when it comes to right/wrong. business ethics need, i suppose, to be given a looser rein at times, but, imho, not here. what went on was wrong, he was asked to stop and didn't. someone from capcom should have done some damage control. there was certainly time if they had felt it was important. unfortunately, they didn't.

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theblackdragon

58. Posted:

ChocoGoldfish wrote:

No one is defending what happened, but Navi (and myself) are simply suggesting that people remember that businesses do have a different code of ethics to people.

you're attempting to exonerate them for their lack of action by attempting to pass this off as a sound business decision. you may as well be defending what happened, IMO, because you're trying to put them in the right on some level for not having done a damn thing to stop what went on, which is absolutely abhorrent.

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kkslider5552000

59. Posted:

but tbd, they are a successful business so it's A-OK!

BOOM
oh, even my improved sarcasm meter couldn't handle that.

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pixelman

60. Posted:

There's some BS going on somewhere. Reading Giant Bomb and they said:

"[Capcom] told me the cast and crew had been informed that “any inappropriate or disrespectful comments will not be tolerated during filming.”

But Miranda said on Twitter (she apparently since deleted these tweets):

“Capcom and the stream teams know and they don’t care. I just gotta wait 2 more days,”
“I’m not leaving because by contract I have to stay here 2 more days. If it were up to me I would have left long ago," she said.

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