smoreon

The more recent Smash Bros (Broses?), starting with Brawl, have added all kinds of great features and content, but have also taken steps back in other areas, which is the real reason we old-timers can be a bit grumpy. (We could just ignore everything after Melee, but then we'd be missing out on a lot. We don't hate all change, just the negative kind!)

My top features would include:

• Adventure mode, with the personality of Melee's, but the scale of Brawl's
• Melee's faster, tighter controls
• Trophies!
• Interesting mini-games like the old Target Test

@Lizuka Subspace Emissary's execution wasn't great, but I loved that it expanded on Melee's Adventure mode, making for a meatier quest that wasn't over in 15 minutes. I always wanted something like that as a kid (even before Melee came out), and SSE... well, it was more of a tease than anything. But it's a start!

My #1 request for a future Smash is to have an Adventure mode with the size and scope of SSE, but with better levels (actual locations from the games, not Generic Plain #3) and a story that makes sense and isn't completely forgettable. Maybe even with voice acting, if that's not too much to ask? (It probably is, so maybe we should just forget the story.)

@LiquidNinja Come to think of it, simply taking away the ground is a pretty effective way to wipe out the island's hedgehog population...

@EarthboundBenjy I agree with you in general: it's fascinating to dig up and study cut content (as well as beta versions of existing content) in our favourite games, but the high quality that we see in the final product is only achieved by refining- if not outright removing- many elements. So while we may long for the unused content from something like Super Mario 64 or Ocarina of Time, the final product is better than what we missed out on anyway.

However, there are cases where the original plan for a game was much grander and more impressive than what we got: the final game may be good, but it's still compromised. It's less than what could have been, and that's when it kind of hurts. Star Fox Adventures and Vexx are my two main examples of this, as each of those is literally half the game it was meant to be.

I got just a bit of this feeling when watching the above video, as there's something compelling about not just seeing the content that we missed out on, but also seeing the levels we know in their original intended context. The original plan was not just bigger, but more logical and cohesive than the final jumble of zones that we got. Sonic 2 was, and still is, one of my favourite games of all time, but there's a part of me that wants to see the original plan brought to fruition now!

@HammerGalladeBro Yes to all of those!
Though Pulseman is by GameFreak, and a sequel to that would be cutting further into Pokemon's shoestring budget...

@PeteW There are at least two modern lightgun systems now: Aimtrak and Sinden!

@johnvboy It sounds like we're using different definitions of the expression, then. What could it mean, though, besides the crucial, deciding factor: that a good lineup of Nintendo games means good hardware sales, and the lack thereof means bad sales?

GameCube had an amazing library of exclusives, so those games didn't "break" it. But they didn't "make" the hardware sales either, as people generally avoided it for reasons other than those killer exclusives (whether that was insufficient third-party support, a perception of weakness or technical inferiority, the persistent "kiddy" image that follows Nintendo, etc.).

@johnvboy What you previously said was simply: "Nintendo's own software will always make or break their hardware sales... fact."

Yes, Sony (Microsoft is debatable!) had already taken over the core console marketplace, so Nintendo went off in a different direction after that. But that just goes to show that there's more at play here than Nintendo software, as the GCN had a killer lineup of exclusives, yet still ended up with mediocre hardware sales.

Between having four items equipped at once, and the ability to zoom out a bit (making for a bigger play field and a little less pixelation), this looks like a great excuse to revisit Link's Awakening. If they've also made it possible to speed through text*, then that makes this pretty much the perfect way to play!

*I would go out of my way to avoid the power-ups, as I was so tired of seeing those slow, unskippable status messages: "You're invincible!", etc.

@johnvboy By that reasoning, the GameCube must have had a poor first-party library! While I agree with the basic premise that Nintendo games are the main draw for Nintendo platforms, there's clearly more going on.

@rotekps_aniger Multi-platform games are written in higher-level languages, and then compiled for the target platforms- there's much less emphasis on code developed specifically for each platform these days.
Freedom Planet 1 and 2 both have native PC releases, and are made to run well on x86 CPUs. I tried running FP1 on an old PC from 2007, and it worked beautifully. If it had been emulating the PPC code from the Wii U release, the performance probably would have been awful! (And come to think of it, wasn't FP1 made for PC first, and then Wii U?)

Not implying that they just have to get around to pushing the "port to Switch" button, of course, and I wouldn't be surprised if the different CPU architectures add some work, but graphics should be okay. The Switch reuses the same Nvidia architecture that millions of PCs were using in 2014, just on a smaller scale.

PS: I recommend giving Freedom Planet another chance! The levels are fairly lengthy, with several (one-way) scene transitions where you walk off the right side of the screen, so maybe that threw you off the first time?

@mr_benn If you have a GameCube USB adapter (like the one used by Smash 4/Ultimate), you can plug the bongos right into your PC and run Donkey Konga in an emulator! Many PC monitors- even the ones that aren't specifically for gaming- have a negligible amount of lag. Modern TVs don't usually fare so well, however.

@Serpenterror What about Jet Set Radio Future?

@PinderSchloss Right, just like I said, "semi-open". And even aside from side-quests, you'll find that OoT, MM, and WW have a fair bit of non-linearity in even the main quest, whether that's dungeons being completed out of order, or at least a whole bunch of the groundwork before the dungeon can be completed earlier than intended.

I haven't played Horizon, but I did get a chuckle out of that description, as I just finished replaying Shenmue, where you're supposed to be on a quest for revenge, but you can waste hours playing arcade games and buying little toys instead.
While that lack of urgency is nearly inevitable in any game that's not one big corridor, many games still do well enough at having a linear story take place in a non-linear world, without the events all happening in the wrong order (as they do with BotW's memories).

@-wc- Spoken like a true F-Zero fan. I feel your pain!

As an aside, I never thought that people would start arguing whether Ocarina of Time was financially successful enough for a follow-up to be viable today! Though I'm sure Nintendo is pleased with the widespread acceptance of their "20 mill or bust" mentality.

The word "linear" is getting thrown around a lot here, but how many Zelda games were actually linear? Maybe some of the later ones, like Skyward Sword, but can you really call Ocarina, Majora, or Wind Waker "linear"? They are basically Metroidvanias: they drop you into a non-linear, semi-open world to explore, and you open up more of the map by gaining new items and abilities.

So does anyone actually want Zelda to be linear? Probably not.
Could we get behind some good 3D Metroidvania-style games, and does that formula still have plenty to offer if handled well? Absolutely!

@-wc- It sounds like you're describing letterbox widescreen, which a handful of games (apparently including JFG?) did. But there was also anamorphic widescreen, which was more common. This simply squashed more horizontal information into the 4:3 space, making everything look tall and thin. It was then up to the user to choose an aspect ratio that filled their widescreen TV. Many/most early widescreen games were anamorphic, including Goldeneye.

@Banjo- Yeah, Ghoulies as well! I didn't mention it because it was largely designed before the acquisition, so I felt it didn't quite count. It's definitely fun and creative, and probably would have been better received if it didn't have to support the weight of being Rare's big debut in a new era.

There are countless Rare IPs that could be brought back, and I'd welcome almost any of them- but of course, Banjo-Kazooie is up there! I agree that Playtonic is a good candidate. Yooka-Laylee wasn't perfect, but I enjoyed it, and it showed that they have potential.

@PipeGuy64Bit Viva Pinata, Nuts & Bolts, and maybe Kinect Adventures, sure. Even if they didn't land quite as well as Rare's earlier stuff, they're still quirky and imaginative (like Blast Corps, to give an older example), and it's not hard to imagine that they were passion projects that Rare wanted to make.

But there was undeniably some pressure to be more "Xbox-ish" after joining Microsoft, whether it was imposed by MS themselves, or just self-inflicted.
Conker: Live and Reloaded had its goofy multiplayer modes replaced with an online shooter, and this was plastered all over the box, with the core single-player campaign- a full remake of BFD on the N64- getting a brief mention and seemingly being an afterthought.
Kameo had some smaller tweaks, but still had to refer to its protagonist as an "elf" instead of a fairy.
Perfect Dark Zero had more attitude than its predecessor, inexplicably made Joanna American, and lost any subtlety and Britishness that the original had. It felt almost like a US studio was shoehorning the Perfect Dark IP into their own run-of-the-mill, mid-2000s FPS, despite PDZ actually being made by Rare.
And besides all that, I'm a little skeptical that Rare volunteered to work on MS's Avatars for so long.

While it's not as simple as "Rare was great, until evil Microsoft killed them", there was definitely some kind of mismatch or tension going on, at least circa 2005.

While endless re-releases of Atari 2600 games would get old after a while, they've got Digital Eclipse and NightDive Studios, both of which have a history of emulating and remastering a wide variety of games from all different developers, publishers, and eras. As long as they're allowed to keep doing what they're doing, there should be plenty of interesting stuff on the way!

@Thomystic Some nice ideas here.
I'd like to point out that #2 was done by Sonic and All-Stars Racing Transformed, despite including local co-op, and that #3 was done nicely- if a little too subtly for most of us to notice- in Double Dash!

As for #4, I like to joke that Nintendo brainstorms track themes by spinning two roulettes: one with the characters' names, and the other with typical video game environments. (spins) "Yoshi... Desert!" "Toad... Factory!" "Wario... Mountain!"

@Grumblevolcano Yeah, I'm seeing those parallels between Smash and Mario Kart as well. It's very much a double-edged sword, though: MK8 Deluxe and SSB Ultimate (and even SSB4) have a staggering amount of content, such that it will be seemingly impossible- or at least impractical- to top them.

Meanwhile, I'm finding myself less interested in both, probably caused by a mix of the overwhelming amount of stuff (it's harder to appreciate everything at that volume!), the simple fact of getting older (less wonder and surprise with each new addition), and my perception that both of these games have less interesting physics/mechanics than their GameCube-era counterparts. Yes, the new ones are more polished and accessible, but they've lost something along the way.

I'd definitely be down for a new entry that shakes things up, whether that's via mechanical changes, a world to explore (a la DKR), or turning into "Super Smash Kart", with more exploration of non-Mario content. Though that last one is probably just kicking the can a little further down the road...

@Erigen Hey, hold on a second! Didn't you know that F-Zero GX only sold 420 copies, and that a Switch sequel would have even slower sales? We're talking about a tiny, tiny, vocal minority that wants this; not even enough to break even on development costs.

And those dozens of upvotes you got are imaginary.

@-wc- Haha, when you wondered aloud whether the Switch's flat UI design was "because its supposed to be fast compared to wii u", I was about to chime in with "nope, it's because of Windows 8".
Wii U's interface is "Vista" as heck, which is funny for a system that launched around 6 years later. (Okay, not actually that strange, seeing as its capabilities were on par with Vista-era consoles.)

I can recognize that the 3D-ish, bubbly, shiny style of design is dated, but I still love it. It seems that rounded edges and glass-like surfaces are finally coming back now (albeit to a lesser extent), and I'm all for it.

@Croctopus It really is kind of a weird thought. But there must be more to it than the world at large forgetting about Nintendo, as 14 million Nintendo fans (who stayed in the "bubble") is still a relatively small number. Where did the much larger fan base go when the Wii U came out? Or maybe more accurately, where did all of them come from when the Switch showed up?

Personally, I walked away when Nintendo went after the "Blue Ocean" instead of delivering the kinds of experiences that I loved on the GameCube, and nothing since then has convinced me to go back. But I suspect that for many others in my situation, the Switch was enough to make the difference.

As for that Blue Ocean that Nintendo so fervently tried to catch, it would seem that whole affair was a lot more fleeting than they realized or hoped for.

But anyway, the Wii U definitely had- and still has- its good points! I picked up a used console after it was discontinued, and went on to collect a bunch of the must-haves, along with a bunch of Virtual Console games that can't reasonably be owned any other way now.

@Woderwick Exactly! Now I'm curious about these blogs that I otherwise wouldn't have known about.

@McBurn Perfect, thanks!

@LikelySatan Oh, I see. Well, if you're making wishes, then put in a good word for F-Zero, will you?

@LikelySatan @serpenterror Xbox 360 games make up a big part of Rare Replay, and the only reason they're included is because of emulation, as porting the games one-by-one (just to deliver them all in a single, budget-priced release) would be cost-prohibitive. Of course, the Switch has no chance of emulating the 360, so Rare Replay would end up being an incomplete package.

Or are you thinking that they should replace those games with the DKC trilogy, DKR, and DK64?

@LikelySatan Yeah, I really hope they're planning some special control hacks like the Xbox version has, or people will be in for a rude awakening! The Goldeneye workaround doesn't apply here, as the issues go too deep for simple remapping to fix.

@BrianJL And take note of where you can't go on your first run. If there's water, lava, or a large gap to cross, then it's likely that you won't be able to collect everything without a specific character.

@RupeeClock That last bit (about future historians studying Pokemon merch) is such a strange thought, but I fully expect it to hold true. We look at the art and culture- even pop culture- of bygone eras and civilizations with such fascination, and there's no reason to think the 1990s and later will be exempt in a few centuries.

Though it may be a bit delayed, given the recent changes around the sharing of information: can 20th century media and culture fade away into antiquity as quickly as previous centuries, when we have readily-available archives of movies, games, and even message boards from decades ago?

@SuperBro64 Ship of Harkinian is amazing!
For those who don't know, it's a PC port of Ocarina of Time, which preserves the original game exactly as it was by default, avoiding the usual pitfalls of a remaster (like new bugs, or visual changes that harm the original art direction).
There are all kinds of optional improvements that can be turned on and off individually, including 60fps, HD/4K, widescreen, improved button mapping (iron boots on the D-pad!), and faster block pushing animations. It allows for the minor annoyances to be fixed, letting the original masterpiece's quality shine through.

@Mgalens Yeah, I find it tiring when people mock 60fps as if it's some shiny new feature, and as if wanting it is a new, obnoxious fad.

Yes, it was largely absent in 3D games during the PS1, PS3 and PS4 eras, specifically, but it was overwhelmingly the standard across consoles and arcade machines back in the 8- and 16-bit days. And the games were better off for it!
Whether it's Mario, Sonic, F-Zero (you name it!), any moderately fast-paced game that felt good to play, felt good partially because of that fast 60Hz update, and they wouldn't have looked as good or played as well if they had been 30fps. The handful of games that did run at 30 or lower were generally rough around the edges, if not outright shovelware.

I'm not sure what you mean about it being measured differently back in those days, as the game screen did a full refresh every time the TV did.
Maybe you're thinking of the way they lacked frame buffers, which hold each screen of the game before it goes out to the TV? Or interlacing, which so-called "high res" games used as a way to fake a higher resolution (there's a common misconception that this halved the framerate).

@KingdomTears The way I would expect this GIF to be handled is the same as a typical 60Hz TV or monitor: run the total image at 60Hz, so the 60fps content displays natively, the 30fps by playing each frame twice, and the 24fps with a mix of repeating each frame 2 or 3 times, alternating. Of course, this makes the 24Hz stuff look extra juddery, whereas it should look relatively close to 30.

But this GIF makes all three look noticeably juddery, so something went wrong in its creation/conversion.

@BobaTheFett He must've meant to say "some stages run at a sub-720p resolution", as that's what's described in the video.

Also, the bit about downgraded textures is relative to other systems, so it applies to both modes on Switch, not just docked. It's just more noticeable in docked mode. I've never heard of a game that actually has worse graphics when docked!

@Nua My monitor is definitely running at 60hz, and I can easily tell the difference between 60 and 30, but that specific GIF isn't displaying properly for me.

The balls are bouncing with slightly different timing and motion blur (as they should), but the 60fps side still looks as juddery as the others.

@Baker1000 60fps in a side-scroller, especially one as fast as Sonic, is just natural. You might not notice it, but you would notice if it wasn't there. Very high-speed platforming is not only more difficult, but also torture on the eyes at 30fps, as I found out when playing the high speed escape stage in the original version of Castle Crashers.

@Nua On my computer/browser, all three of those are running at about 24fps. Or is that the joke?

@Dm9982 The NSO emulators are running on the Switch itself. If they were streamed from the cloud, you'd know it by the image quality- and judging by the other cloud games on Switch, you'd probably see stutters and disconnects every so often as well!

About the file size, I'm seeing that the N64 app takes up 1.5 GB, which is easily more than enough to fit the games and an emulator. (The 26 games combined take up just 592 MB!)

From the technical side, there isn't a whole lot different about NSO compared to past versions of VC. All of these are collections of emulators: the games don't have to be ported to each new console, but the emulators do.

Yeah, there's definitely a difference in how accounts and purchases are handled. NSO simplified things by making it so there are no purchases to carry over, though of course, there will still be plenty of standard Switch games linked to people's accounts. And I would hope that Nintendo is going to carry all of this generation's digital purchases over for once, so maybe none of this matters.

@Dm9982 I'm not following: how does NSO save Nintendo the work of porting their emulators? All of the existing emulators were developed (or at least ported) specifically for the Switch, and if the next system doesn't have backwards compatibility, then those emulators will all have to be ported to that, regardless of the sales model.

If it was a streaming service like Antstream, that would be a different matter!

So this article covers the Best 18+ Switch Games For Adults, which is cool.
But what about the best 18+ Switch games for kids?

@HaileySheridon Metroid Prime did a really good job at adapting the Metroid formula to 3D. It may seem to be a shooter on the surface, but it's very much a Metroid(vania) at its core. I still recommend giving it a chance, even if you're skeptical about the FPS side of it!

I never finished even the base version of Smash Bros. for Wii U, as completing every mode as every character was just too much of a slog. I can't imagine how time-consuming Ultimate with all of its DLC must be!

Rather than bloating the roster with even more characters, I'd like to see a more fleshed-out campaign, like Subspace Emissary, but with more interesting levels like Melee's Adventure Mode had. Besides that, maybe add some cool new modes and extras- or even just bring back some of the old stuff that was dropped, like Target Test and trophies. Tighten up the speed and responsiveness just a bit, and you've got a near-perfect Smash!

What, no mention of the NES game's main claim to fame: the ending?
"Conglaturation! You have completed a great game!"

@SteamEngenius Nintendo has been giving us that one every generation, since the Wii.

@samuelvictor No worries, thanks for remembering!

@NoLife In this case, the new engine has fancier lighting, and it's running in HD, both of which make it run much slower than the old engine. The Switch just isn't able to keep up with all the extra load, so rendering every second frame (30 instead of 60) is the only way to keep it running without sacrificing the fancy graphics.

In some other cases, though, it's just a lack of optimization (MGS2), or bad programming decisions and a lack of optimization (Tales of Symphonia).

@Classic603 Older versions of the emulator unfortunately had game-breaking bugs in the Paper Mario games, specifically if you used an arbitrary resolution like 1920x1080. Later builds removed this feature, limiting the resolution to exact multiples of the GameCube's output: 2x, 3x, and so on.

@Not_Soos Nothing crazy about what you're saying. If anything, it'd be crazy for anyone to think these will do poorly.
Just looking at the numbers, Nintendo's user base is enormous now- far exceeding that of the early 2000s, especially. If a game could sell 2 million copies back then, then about 5x that number isn't all that strange.

And of course, games like TTYD are the stuff of legend now. People have been raving about them for decades, and there are so many potential players who just never got their hands on a copy.

Whether it's this, Mother 3, or even F-Zero, I'm confident that there's a large audience out there, waiting for it.

@Kyoko43 I can only give you one like, but thanks for your detailed (and most importantly, accurate!) explanations on that.

The whole misconception of "60fps interlaced is basically just 30fps" is everywhere, and it's getting old. Though some of the pseudo-technical mumbo-jumbo in this comment thread is on a whole other level!