As someone who "discovered" Doom thanks to the Switch releases (and then proceeded to play and love all the classic Dooms, specifically 1, 2, and 64, 'cause I'm having a lot of trouble getting into or even finishing Doom 3), this is great news for me.
Hey, I get that. Most of those Nintendo and Super Ninendo titles have been released in about twenty different forms throughout the years. N64 and onwards, meanwhile...
Also, I dropped off the Nintendo train during the Gamecube-to-Wii-U era, so there's a lot I haven't played — and can't play on the Switch right now. Hopefully they expand the NSO service, one day. Maybe I should just get a Wii U — though it's not tremendously available in Argentina, where I live.
I'm enjoying the motion controls, personally. Never played the original. It takes a while to get used to, but when it clicks, it works. No, you don't have to "swing your arm around," you can just flick your wrist. You do have to get used to re-centering the pointer constantly, but it's just a quick tap. (Admittedly, I had a lot of practice with Mario Galaxy on the All-Stars collection, so it's almost muscle memory by now.) You can even use the re-centering strategically. For instance, to quickly change your movement horizon while flying and perform a quick dive. Anyway, once the onboarding's done, flying around and practicing sword slashes is a lot of fun. And, yeah, the entire game's built around the motion controls, so there's really no way to remove them, only remap them. I have other issues with the game, but they're not related to the motion controls.
I've put in close to 200 hours across the Nintendo and Super Nintendo apps, but that's because I was too young for many of the obvious first-party titles back in the day, including the Zeldas, Marios (except for World, but I replayed that anyway), Kirbys, and Metroids. So yeah, I personally ended up putting the apps to good use, but I'd much rather have a Virtual Console-style deal with a broader selection.
All of it. Epic wants to create an actual Metaverse. That's their long-term ambition. Yes, Metaverse, like in Neal Stephenson's Snow Crash. And Fortnite's their ticket there. Apparently.
I started playing Skyward Sword last weekend. Loving it so far. First playthrough. Quite a thrill to walk into my first proper 3D Zelda dungeon in, oh, more than a decade? (I mean, Breath of the Wild didn't have dungeons. And the other Zeldas I've played since, um, Wind Waker on a hand-me-down Gamecube back in 2009 were all 2D.)
It's a surprisingly robust game. There's a story, characters, dialogue, sidequests. It probably lasts as much as some indie games. Two to four hours, I assume. (More, if you chase scores.) The mechanics are fairly simple, as they have to be considering the casual audience. It's not Minit or A Short Hike — but it definitely hits some of the same notes. I'll likely finish it. (Spent an hour on it during breakfast.)
Zelda is my favorite franchise and Ocarina of Time made me into a gamer. I had played videogames before, but walking inside the Deku Tree and hearing that enigmatic music was the first time I realized that, wait, videogames can do this, too. They can prioritize mood and make you feel feelings. That blew my young mind.
I know reviews must, on some level, work like buyer's guides. But the criticism (of film, videogames, or literature) I've read that I actually remember later on and even re-read usually tries to go beyond that.
For instance, last year I played Mario 64 for the first time. I loved it, but it's also very obviously dated. The camera, most notoriously.
Now, when playing it last year, I could have lamented the camera isn't up to modern standards — which it obviously isn't — and left it at that. Instead, I tried to work with it and found that, most of the time, the game is actually designed around its camera controls, old-fashioned and unpolished as they might be. For nearly every jump (though there are annoying exceptions) there is generally a way to place the camera the way you want to. (Also, being aware of how the camera was originally mapped to the N64's C-buttons definitely helped.)
This didn't make the camera any less dated, but it did make me understand how it worked within the context of the game, allowing me to struggle less with it and, most importantly, deeply enjoy my experience. It also gave me an appreciation for how the game is designed — even its most flawed aspects — and its time period.
So, if I were writing a review of Mario 64 from a modern perspective, I'd outline my little personal journey above. If a reader doesn't care about learning the intrincacies of the camera controls, I'd be warning them anyway through my description. But I also go a little bit beyond "dated camera," for those who might want to keep at it. And that's all I'm arguing for here: to go a little bit deeper and ask how stuff actually works inside a game, not just to pinpoint how an old game is old.
And most importantly, to think of "datedness" as a neutral term that is neither good nor bad. (Because everything dates.) Some datedness, after all, can be refreshing or interesting. (The lack of handholding, openness, and arcade sensibilities of the 1986 Zelda, in my opinion.) That's why going a little bit deeper is a necessary step.
I just don't think it's that simple and straightforward. It's pretty easy to see how a game is dated. I can figure that out within a minute of booting up a retro game. The real question I ask myself is, do these dated elements work or not within the context of the game? Can I learn the game's quirks? That means I look at the game more deeply. Otherwise, I'm just checking to see if a game from 20 or 30 years ago plays like one today. Which, well, it probably won't and I could have told you that from reading the Wikipedia entry.
Maybe I didn't make myself clear. But my argument is actually within your own post: "I love the original Resident Evil games. I love the fixed camera angles, I love the tank controls. But these things absolutely did not age well, or else they wouldn't be a barrier of entry for people today."
And that is exactly my point. Fixed camera angles and tank controls are absolutely dated in the sense that they've fallen out of favor in modern gaming. However, they provide a very unique, specific experience. Simply saying they're "dated" and moving on doesn't actually get us very far. (It'd be the equivalent of complaining Citizen Kane has 1940s acting and cinematography. Well, yes, it's a 1940s movie. A particularly good one, obviously, but also definitely of its time.) It would be more interesting and profitable to talk about how those mechanics work within the game and what it's trying to do. And if these mechanics are a barrier to entry for people today, well, maybe lower that barrier through conversation and dialogue.
"Putting the present on a pedestal" is not an odd concept in the sense that it's extremely common. Not my own concept, though. Apparently not yours either.
I'm not saying old videogames can't be flawed. Of course they can be. Sometimes those flaws are the inevitable product of experimentation: camera controls hadn't been finessed yet when Ocarina of Time came out. My argument would be that those flaws were there to begin with, we just didn't notice at the time. (Certainly it's more fun to fight enemies in earlier Zelda titles, including A Link to the Past and even the very first 1986 Zelda.)
My argument doesn't involve not pointing out these issues.
However, I don't think the focus should be on how dated these aspects are or are not. Because that, to me, is actually irrelevant. The question is: does said aspect (controls, pacing, etc.) work or not work in the context of the game. Sure, said aspect might be old-fashioned: but does it work? (In the case of Super Metroid, the answer is "yes, the sometimes tricky, stilted-at-first controls work.") Time can give us the perspective to answer that question more accurately. But it's still the question we should be answering.
Since videogames are creative, artistic experiences, it's actually far more difficult than it seems to determine what is or is not an "improvement." That's because anything you add to the experience is, inevitably, something else you take away. Refine and polish, and you take away the unique danger and excitement a more unpolished experience can bring. Make a digital world bigger and more lived-in, and you take away the focus and streamlined nature of previous videogame hubs. And so on.
For instance, with Ocarina of Time, I don't think any Zelda title's quite matched that game's pacing and flow. And yes, I've played it several times since 1998. Much of what makes it dated (its relative simplicity in comparison to later 3D entries) is also what makes it more immediate to play than some of its successors (which could get bogged down in the minutiae, like Twilight Princess's interminable intro or Wind Waker's disposable islands).
Which isn't to say I don't think videogames should evolve. But evolution is about adapting better to your environment (or your audience, in the case of videogames), not about improvement in some objective way. (We, as individuals, aren't plural "audiences," so we can re-adapt ourselves to old games, if we want to.)
The reason I think focusing so much on whether a game ages or not (which shouldn't be a question: every game ages, including Super Metroid and its control scheme, which is perfect but definitely 90s) holds the medium back is this: it prevents us from analyzing the present fruitfully and often puts the present (with its "modern standards") on a weird pedestal that actually keeps us from noticing flaws, finding avenues for innovation, and so on. It also keeps us from locating inspiration in the past. I feel critical takes of old games are often akin to someone trying to find "evidence of aging" like they're at a beach with a metal detector, instead of really engaging with the game and its internal consistency, and asking not "does it feel old" (which, again, is barely a question, because it probably does) but rather "how valuable is this experience." And that's the question I think is really worth asking.
I've said it before on here and I'll say it again, but videogames as a medium will not evolve (or at least the conversation around it won't) until the response to "... a core game that's unavoidably, naturally, beginning to show its age in some regards..." is a resounding "so what?"
Every game shows its age, including games released last week. Just because it's our age and we're used to it shouldn't make any difference from a critical standpoint.
Like you said, other Nintendo franchises have dark moments, but even, say, the darkest and weirdest Zelda, like Majora's Mask, still has plenty of quirky, funny characters, and bold, bright colors. Sure, some of that quirkiness is twisted in the service of Lynchian uncanniness, but not all of it. Metroid, on the other hand, is unrelenting. The sun never comes out in Super Metroid. You spend most of the time underground and then there's a perpetual rainstorm on the surface.
Yeah, this. Mario and Zelda are cheerful in comparison. Zelda can get dark, brooding, and melancholy too, and the first games are definitely no walks in the metaphorical park. But they're nevertheless sunny, high fantasy affairs. Metroid is a franchise about exploring the underbelly of hostile alien planets, with bosses that look like Cronenberg and Giger had a particularly bad dream together, and a gameplay loop that is all about the fun of getting completely lost in oppressive, confusing cave systems. That's not gonna appeal to everyone. (Appeals to me, of course. Hence the avatar.)
I do think Dread's cool, slick, industrial aesthetic (coupled with the action-oriented chase sequences and fluid platforming) might bring in new audiences, though. It looks less like Metroid, at times, and more like a cross between Inside and Portal. (I'm fine with that. I don't need more Super Metroid because I play that game regularly and I'm already planning a new sequence-breaking run literally weeks after finishing my latest replay.)
I just finished my first run through the game. It was magical and completely free. There's no gate-locking except cosmetic stuff. Between levels, there are these "changing rooms" were you can choose your outfit, but there aren't any prices or anything. If you purchased one of the cosmetic add-ons, I guess that's where your new stuff would be. It's completely unnecessary, though. I'll probably buy something just to support the devs, because it's as wonderful as Journey was. But the whole payment model is as un-aggressive as you can get for a game like this, in my opinion.
It's also worth pointing out just how much like Journey this game is: it's a robust one-player experience, with a strong throughline from beginning to end. The differences with Journey come in the way of: a much longer post-game, far more to explore (more "side-quests" and extra areas), and more complex social interactions.
Last night's final climb alongside three strangers, who'd wait for each other or even come back if someone fell behind, was nothing short of beautiful.
It's tricky to pull off, no doubt. To be fair, though, wall-jumping in Super Metroid is supposed to be a high-level skill. You only "need" it to get out of that one room that's also the tutorial for it. Other than that, along with the infinite bomb jump, it's mostly good for sequence-breaking (some of it rather insane, like reverse-order runs, which are hilarious).
I don't know, I mean, I'm slowly going through the original Metroid right now, in fact, and it's not like Super at all, hah. It controls well, but the level design (including the very 80s draw-your-own-map requirement), its willful obtuseness, and complete openness almost from the get-go is a very, very different deal from Super. Of course you can tell it's the same franchise and some of the art carries over, but that's about it.
I haven't played Zero Mission yet, but I've played smoother-controlling Metroidvanias, like Axiom Verge or the mighty Hollow Knight. I still prefer Super Metroid to them, especially after my last few playthroughs this past year. It takes longer to get used to Super Metroid's controls, but I did get used to them, and that's what matters to me: whether or not you can eventually get used to — and even appreciate — a game's quirks.
It's like the Mario games. I just beat the first Super Mario yesterday for the first time. Growing up with Super Mario World, the physics in the 1985 original do take some getting used to. But I got used to them. And I ended up loving the original Mario to a degree I didn't expect to. The "dated" physics have a positive side to them: the sheer speed and inertia you can achieve through high-level Mario play exceeds what's possible in the more controlled, accessible World and even 3 (my favorite Mario game).
The controls "hold up," but there's a learning curve. I played it for the first time in 2008, on a keyboard with my computer, so I didn't have any useful muscle memory to fall back on last year and last month, when I played Super Metroid for the second and third times on my Switch. You can achieve a high level of precision, though it takes practice to learn the ins and outs. Satisfying once you manage it.
EDIT: That said, the grappling hook admittedly never gets not annoying, though I did finally manage to make peace with it during my last playthrough.
I mean, the game's almost a decade old by now. And it was talked about a lot back in the day. It was a poster child for both indie gaming and games as art. So I guess those calling it "overrated" are thinking back to the mid-2010s.
I think "overrated" is one of the most useless words in existence, though. Along with "dated." But that's another conversation.
I think it's still a fairly iconic game. It straddles the line between walking simulator and puzzle-platformer, and was well-positioned, in the early 2010s, to take advantage of the changing videogame conversation of the time, with the rise of indies and a growing acceptance, across the wider culture, of videogames as an artform. (Coincidentally, the Smithsonian's landmark The Art of Videogames exhibition opened in March 2012, when Journey came out.) So it has a definite place in videogame history.
I've only played the 90s games and I like them both quite a bit. They're very 90s, of course. If you did a game like that today, it'd get called "dated" by critics and players who don't understand what the word means.
You know what I would like, though? A version of the SNES game that receives the Virtua Racing Sega Ages treatment, with fewer jaggies and better frame rate. That'd be great. I played Star Fox last year for the first time and it's pretty awesome, just a simple on-rails shooter through a retro-futuristic abstract landscape. I dug it. But the frame rate's like five frames per second half the time. Difficult to adjust to.
I'm definitely getting this. The only problem I had with the N64 original back in the day was its drab visual design, which has obviously received an overhaul here. Otherwise, this is one of the all-time great sports videogames (or just one of the all-time great videogame, period). And I don't even care for actual, real-life skating!
I think that, kind of like Rocket League, Tony Hawk benefits from stepping away from realism or simulation, and focusing on internal and videogame-exclusive logic and mechanics, which is what makes it endure, because it's just internally coherent and there's not a whole lot you need to change about it down the line. (Kind of like how chess isn't exactly a realistic representation of warfare, but no one has cared about that for hundreds of years.)
The late 90s were a weird and exciting time for videogames, especially coming off the timeless refinement of the best SNES games. You play A Link to the Past or Super Metroid today (or yesterday, in my case) and they just exude absolute confidence. You play Final Fantasy VII and Super Mario 64, on the other hand, and they're comparatively scrappy and experimental, with lots of rough edges you have to forgive. At the same time, though, I actually appreciate that sense of experimentation and danger, the sheer variety of weird mini-games and art assets in Final Fantasy VII, the jazzy freestyle vibe of Mario 64, the wild ride that is Half Life (which kickstarted the whole linear cinematic shooter trend we're still living with, but because Half Life was first it's also — and thankfully — far more relaxed and hands-off than later cinematic shooters, including Half Life 2, which are always pushing you forward like a drill instructor). Anyway, I guess my point is that, if you can roll with the datedness of N64-era games, the datedness itself can become an asset rather than a fault.
Of course, then there's Doom, which came out way before the N64 and does 3D exploration better than most games being released today. It's insane. But Doom is Doom.
I mean, with an avatar like mine, I'm obviously going to go with Metroid Dread.
But I also really liked what I saw of Shin Megami Tensei V and Advance Wars. And beyond the Switch, Elden Ring and S.T.A.L.K.E.R. 2.
Zelda is my favorite franchise and I'm hyped for Breath of the Wild 2, but I don't think it's the star of this E3. Maybe next year.
That said, I hope people caught the Treehouse footage of all the Switch heavy-hitters. The trailers during the Direct were nice, but my anticipation for Dread and SMT V really grew once I saw them in motion during longer play sessions.
I hear you. In fact, after binging on Dread news, I obviously had to boot up Super Metroid again. And here I am in the middle of a completionist run. Part of the reason why it remains so compelling is that, if you're good, you can actually finish it in about two or three hours. I take longer, though, because I haven't memorized the game yet. But it's still an 8 to 10 hour experience, tight and focused. And thus infinitely replayable. I haven't even tried doing crazy sequence-breaking yet. Doing research on that for next time!
Money is an abstraction. Videogames are of no real, tangible value. You pay what you're willing to pay. Companies charge what they think they can charge.
Price is not and should not be linked to playtime. Playtime means nothing. If I play a game for five hours but remember it for the rest of my life, that's what matters. I paid full price for a special edition of Link's Awakening in 2019. Finished it in 10 hours, still thinking about it regularly today.
There was plenty for No More Heroes 3. Like, 30 minutes of it. They just... didn't mention it on the Direct, for some reason. Anyway, enjoy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rRbIMesXYw
If I can find it in Argentina, I'll absolutely get this. I'm a big Zelda nerd and this has at least two of my favorite games in it: the original Zelda and Link's Awakening. (I say "at least" because Zelda II is one of the few mainline entries I haven't tried yet.) I played both on the Switch last year, but with Link's Awakening I've only played the remake. Which was great, but looking at screenshots of the original, I've always felt something was lost in the translation. Not because I didn't have fun with the remake (clearly, I did) but, in comparison to the other 2D Zeldas I was trying out at the same time (the 1986 original and A Link to the Past), the Link's Awakening remake felt slower, less responsive, somewhat clumsier. The diorama visuals are beautiful, but they impact the gameplay, I feel.
I'm confused by people expecting this to be a mere expansion of Breath of the Wild.
It's clearly a whole new game but with the same engine as its prequel. Like Majora's Mask on the N64. I'm sure some assets and locations will be similar, for poetic effect (and shortened development times), but otherwise it's obviously a major, mainline Zelda. That's why it's taking so long.
Agreed! I really liked the Direct, too. Well-paced presentation with plenty of bangers. Advanced Wars, SMT V, Metroid (!!), and BOTW 2 gameplay were the highlights for me. There's plenty to look forward to.
I thought that was an objectively great Direct. Actual gameplay footage from Breath of the Wild 2 showcasing gameplay mechanics (the rewind power, mostly), a new 2D Metroid with real Alien: Isolation vibes, the return of Advanced Wars (a game I missed), a release date and gameplay footage of Shin Megami Tensei V... I'm happy.
I agree with you. Guardians does indeed look great and it was clearly the highlight — though they also spent too much time on it during the presentation, relative to the other announcements. But it looks like a good mix of Mass Effect and modern Final Fantasy, plus the Guardians. I'm on board.
But then the presentation took a dive, between the Final Fantasy collection not coming to the Switch for some reason, and should-have-been-mindblowing footage of Babylon's Fall and Final Fantasy Origins that defused whatever hype had been building for either.
With you on subjecting ourselves to our own private expectation mind-game pre-Nintendo-Direct.
Microsoft/Xbox was pretty good, yeah. Not too keen on the other presentations. Ubisoft was underwhelming. Square was awful. Devolver was nice, but that wasn't an official E3 presentation and what I liked about it were all the gonzo and quirky theatrics around the actual game announcements, not the announcements themselves. So far, Microsoft's saving the expo. We'll see what Nintendo has for us tomorrow.
I replay games often. I still search for new experiences, but with new experiences your head's too wrapped up in all the novelty to actually look at how the thing's put together.
Also, after enough years, I like to reevaluate games. I bounced off Half-Life 2 in 2009, so I replayed it in 2020 and finally jumped on the bandwagon. I never got along with Super Mario 3 in the early 90s, but it became one of my favorite games in 2019. You grow up and appreciate different things.
I had an experience like this last year, but with Donkey Kong Country 2.
The only difference with your story is that I'm much better at it now, in my 30s, than I was when I was a kid. But that's mostly down to playing Dark Souls in my 20s and leveling-up my Patience and Resolve stats across all genres.
Also, do people not understand review aggregators? They've been around for a while. If your game has a handful of reviews and they're all positive, there's a chance you might have a higher percentage or average score than a historic videogame with dozens and dozens of reviews to its name. The article headline is obviously supposed to raise eyebrows and send tongues searching for the nearest cheek. No one's actually or seriously comparing both games here.
Yeah, it's particularly welcome when the "remastered" graphics are artistically terrible, like with R-Type Dimensions (which looks like a cheap mobile game) or the first Halo in the Master Chief Collection (which has awful, kitschy-gamer-laptop-style art design), both of which I play with their original graphics and ignore the modern options. In some cases, though, the ability to switch back and forth does let the more thoughtful remasters shine (like, ironically, the Halo 2 remaster, which rescued the botched, flat, rushed look of the original).
I think there's something to that. I never played the original and loved the remake last year, but... every time I see footage of the original, I kind of wish I had played that, instead. I can't really compare the remake to the original, but I did play A Link to the Past and the first Legend of Zelda at around the same time in 2020, and I just felt like those 2D games felt faster and more satisfying to play than the toybox isometric thing from the Link's Awakening remake, which was comparatively methodical. Still a beautiful experience, but there's a charm and coherence to the old aesthetic, too.
Comments 753
Re: Talking Point: Which Video Game Song Could You Listen To For Ten Hours?
Inside the Deku Tree, Ocarina of Time.
Re: The Quake Remaster Is Out Now On Nintendo Switch
Well, that was a quick purchase!
As someone who "discovered" Doom thanks to the Switch releases (and then proceeded to play and love all the classic Dooms, specifically 1, 2, and 64, 'cause I'm having a lot of trouble getting into or even finishing Doom 3), this is great news for me.
Re: Feature: 20 Super NES Classics Nintendo Should Bring To Switch Online
@Anguspuss
Hey, I get that. Most of those Nintendo and Super Ninendo titles have been released in about twenty different forms throughout the years. N64 and onwards, meanwhile...
Also, I dropped off the Nintendo train during the Gamecube-to-Wii-U era, so there's a lot I haven't played — and can't play on the Switch right now. Hopefully they expand the NSO service, one day. Maybe I should just get a Wii U — though it's not tremendously available in Argentina, where I live.
Re: The Legend Of Zelda: Skyward Sword HD Receives Its First Update - Resolves "Several Issues"
I'm enjoying the motion controls, personally. Never played the original. It takes a while to get used to, but when it clicks, it works. No, you don't have to "swing your arm around," you can just flick your wrist. You do have to get used to re-centering the pointer constantly, but it's just a quick tap. (Admittedly, I had a lot of practice with Mario Galaxy on the All-Stars collection, so it's almost muscle memory by now.) You can even use the re-centering strategically. For instance, to quickly change your movement horizon while flying and perform a quick dive. Anyway, once the onboarding's done, flying around and practicing sword slashes is a lot of fun. And, yeah, the entire game's built around the motion controls, so there's really no way to remove them, only remap them. I have other issues with the game, but they're not related to the motion controls.
Re: Feature: 20 Super NES Classics Nintendo Should Bring To Switch Online
@Anguspuss
I've put in close to 200 hours across the Nintendo and Super Nintendo apps, but that's because I was too young for many of the obvious first-party titles back in the day, including the Zeldas, Marios (except for World, but I replayed that anyway), Kirbys, and Metroids. So yeah, I personally ended up putting the apps to good use, but I'd much rather have a Virtual Console-style deal with a broader selection.
Re: Platinum's Retro Sequel 'Sol Cresta' Gets New Trailer
@gaga64
Not the most readable fantasy typography, for sure.
Re: Random: Football Manager Jose Mourhino Calls Fortnite A "Nightmare" Game
@Snatcher
All of it. Epic wants to create an actual Metaverse. That's their long-term ambition. Yes, Metaverse, like in Neal Stephenson's Snow Crash. And Fortnite's their ticket there. Apparently.
Re: Zelda: Skyward Sword HD Players Are Reporting A Frustrating Soft-Lock Glitch
Played that part last week and had no issues. Looks infuriating, though.
Having a blast with the actual game, I must say. Loving it. Only mainline home console Zelda (outside of Zelda II) that I hadn't played.
Re: Just 10 Days Since Launch, Zelda: Skyward Sword HD Is Already Amazon's Third Best-Seller Of 2021
I started playing Skyward Sword last weekend. Loving it so far. First playthrough. Quite a thrill to walk into my first proper 3D Zelda dungeon in, oh, more than a decade? (I mean, Breath of the Wild didn't have dungeons. And the other Zeldas I've played since, um, Wind Waker on a hand-me-down Gamecube back in 2009 were all 2D.)
Re: Random: Google's 'Doodle Champion Island Games' Is A Retro Throwback
It's a surprisingly robust game. There's a story, characters, dialogue, sidequests. It probably lasts as much as some indie games. Two to four hours, I assume. (More, if you chase scores.) The mechanics are fairly simple, as they have to be considering the casual audience. It's not Minit or A Short Hike — but it definitely hits some of the same notes. I'll likely finish it. (Spent an hour on it during breakfast.)
Re: Feature: Our Most Treasured Zelda Memories
Zelda is my favorite franchise and Ocarina of Time made me into a gamer. I had played videogames before, but walking inside the Deku Tree and hearing that enigmatic music was the first time I realized that, wait, videogames can do this, too. They can prioritize mood and make you feel feelings. That blew my young mind.
Re: Review: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword HD - A Remaster That Truly Soars
@nimnio
Does it have to be either/or?
I know reviews must, on some level, work like buyer's guides. But the criticism (of film, videogames, or literature) I've read that I actually remember later on and even re-read usually tries to go beyond that.
For instance, last year I played Mario 64 for the first time. I loved it, but it's also very obviously dated. The camera, most notoriously.
Now, when playing it last year, I could have lamented the camera isn't up to modern standards — which it obviously isn't — and left it at that. Instead, I tried to work with it and found that, most of the time, the game is actually designed around its camera controls, old-fashioned and unpolished as they might be. For nearly every jump (though there are annoying exceptions) there is generally a way to place the camera the way you want to. (Also, being aware of how the camera was originally mapped to the N64's C-buttons definitely helped.)
This didn't make the camera any less dated, but it did make me understand how it worked within the context of the game, allowing me to struggle less with it and, most importantly, deeply enjoy my experience. It also gave me an appreciation for how the game is designed — even its most flawed aspects — and its time period.
So, if I were writing a review of Mario 64 from a modern perspective, I'd outline my little personal journey above. If a reader doesn't care about learning the intrincacies of the camera controls, I'd be warning them anyway through my description. But I also go a little bit beyond "dated camera," for those who might want to keep at it. And that's all I'm arguing for here: to go a little bit deeper and ask how stuff actually works inside a game, not just to pinpoint how an old game is old.
And most importantly, to think of "datedness" as a neutral term that is neither good nor bad. (Because everything dates.) Some datedness, after all, can be refreshing or interesting. (The lack of handholding, openness, and arcade sensibilities of the 1986 Zelda, in my opinion.) That's why going a little bit deeper is a necessary step.
Re: Review: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword HD - A Remaster That Truly Soars
@koekiemonster
I just don't think it's that simple and straightforward. It's pretty easy to see how a game is dated. I can figure that out within a minute of booting up a retro game. The real question I ask myself is, do these dated elements work or not within the context of the game? Can I learn the game's quirks? That means I look at the game more deeply. Otherwise, I'm just checking to see if a game from 20 or 30 years ago plays like one today. Which, well, it probably won't and I could have told you that from reading the Wikipedia entry.
Re: Review: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword HD - A Remaster That Truly Soars
@Merry_Blind
Whatever it is I'm trying to say, I'm definitely not denying videogames evolve. That'd be like denying the ocean has lots of water.
Re: Review: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword HD - A Remaster That Truly Soars
@Darlinfan
Maybe I didn't make myself clear. But my argument is actually within your own post: "I love the original Resident Evil games. I love the fixed camera angles, I love the tank controls. But these things absolutely did not age well, or else they wouldn't be a barrier of entry for people today."
And that is exactly my point. Fixed camera angles and tank controls are absolutely dated in the sense that they've fallen out of favor in modern gaming. However, they provide a very unique, specific experience. Simply saying they're "dated" and moving on doesn't actually get us very far. (It'd be the equivalent of complaining Citizen Kane has 1940s acting and cinematography. Well, yes, it's a 1940s movie. A particularly good one, obviously, but also definitely of its time.) It would be more interesting and profitable to talk about how those mechanics work within the game and what it's trying to do. And if these mechanics are a barrier to entry for people today, well, maybe lower that barrier through conversation and dialogue.
Re: Review: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword HD - A Remaster That Truly Soars
@BloodNinja
"Putting the present on a pedestal" is not an odd concept in the sense that it's extremely common. Not my own concept, though. Apparently not yours either.
I'm not saying old videogames can't be flawed. Of course they can be. Sometimes those flaws are the inevitable product of experimentation: camera controls hadn't been finessed yet when Ocarina of Time came out. My argument would be that those flaws were there to begin with, we just didn't notice at the time. (Certainly it's more fun to fight enemies in earlier Zelda titles, including A Link to the Past and even the very first 1986 Zelda.)
My argument doesn't involve not pointing out these issues.
However, I don't think the focus should be on how dated these aspects are or are not. Because that, to me, is actually irrelevant. The question is: does said aspect (controls, pacing, etc.) work or not work in the context of the game. Sure, said aspect might be old-fashioned: but does it work? (In the case of Super Metroid, the answer is "yes, the sometimes tricky, stilted-at-first controls work.") Time can give us the perspective to answer that question more accurately. But it's still the question we should be answering.
Re: Review: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword HD - A Remaster That Truly Soars
@BloodNinja
That's kind of the argument I'm disagreeing with.
Since videogames are creative, artistic experiences, it's actually far more difficult than it seems to determine what is or is not an "improvement." That's because anything you add to the experience is, inevitably, something else you take away. Refine and polish, and you take away the unique danger and excitement a more unpolished experience can bring. Make a digital world bigger and more lived-in, and you take away the focus and streamlined nature of previous videogame hubs. And so on.
For instance, with Ocarina of Time, I don't think any Zelda title's quite matched that game's pacing and flow. And yes, I've played it several times since 1998. Much of what makes it dated (its relative simplicity in comparison to later 3D entries) is also what makes it more immediate to play than some of its successors (which could get bogged down in the minutiae, like Twilight Princess's interminable intro or Wind Waker's disposable islands).
Which isn't to say I don't think videogames should evolve. But evolution is about adapting better to your environment (or your audience, in the case of videogames), not about improvement in some objective way. (We, as individuals, aren't plural "audiences," so we can re-adapt ourselves to old games, if we want to.)
The reason I think focusing so much on whether a game ages or not (which shouldn't be a question: every game ages, including Super Metroid and its control scheme, which is perfect but definitely 90s) holds the medium back is this: it prevents us from analyzing the present fruitfully and often puts the present (with its "modern standards") on a weird pedestal that actually keeps us from noticing flaws, finding avenues for innovation, and so on. It also keeps us from locating inspiration in the past. I feel critical takes of old games are often akin to someone trying to find "evidence of aging" like they're at a beach with a metal detector, instead of really engaging with the game and its internal consistency, and asking not "does it feel old" (which, again, is barely a question, because it probably does) but rather "how valuable is this experience." And that's the question I think is really worth asking.
Re: Review: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword HD - A Remaster That Truly Soars
I've said it before on here and I'll say it again, but videogames as a medium will not evolve (or at least the conversation around it won't) until the response to "... a core game that's unavoidably, naturally, beginning to show its age in some regards..." is a resounding "so what?"
Every game shows its age, including games released last week. Just because it's our age and we're used to it shouldn't make any difference from a critical standpoint.
Re: Talking Point: Can Metroid Dread Be The Franchise's 'Awakening'?
@Caryslan
Yeah, agreed with all of this. Good analysis.
Like you said, other Nintendo franchises have dark moments, but even, say, the darkest and weirdest Zelda, like Majora's Mask, still has plenty of quirky, funny characters, and bold, bright colors. Sure, some of that quirkiness is twisted in the service of Lynchian uncanniness, but not all of it. Metroid, on the other hand, is unrelenting. The sun never comes out in Super Metroid. You spend most of the time underground and then there's a perpetual rainstorm on the surface.
Re: Talking Point: Can Metroid Dread Be The Franchise's 'Awakening'?
@OnlyManWhoCan
Yeah, this. Mario and Zelda are cheerful in comparison. Zelda can get dark, brooding, and melancholy too, and the first games are definitely no walks in the metaphorical park. But they're nevertheless sunny, high fantasy affairs. Metroid is a franchise about exploring the underbelly of hostile alien planets, with bosses that look like Cronenberg and Giger had a particularly bad dream together, and a gameplay loop that is all about the fun of getting completely lost in oppressive, confusing cave systems. That's not gonna appeal to everyone. (Appeals to me, of course. Hence the avatar.)
I do think Dread's cool, slick, industrial aesthetic (coupled with the action-oriented chase sequences and fluid platforming) might bring in new audiences, though. It looks less like Metroid, at times, and more like a cross between Inside and Portal. (I'm fine with that. I don't need more Super Metroid because I play that game regularly and I'm already planning a new sequence-breaking run literally weeks after finishing my latest replay.)
Re: Feature: thatgamecompany On Sky: Children Of The Light And Seeking Humanity's 'Brighter Side'
@Old-Red
I just finished my first run through the game. It was magical and completely free. There's no gate-locking except cosmetic stuff. Between levels, there are these "changing rooms" were you can choose your outfit, but there aren't any prices or anything. If you purchased one of the cosmetic add-ons, I guess that's where your new stuff would be. It's completely unnecessary, though. I'll probably buy something just to support the devs, because it's as wonderful as Journey was. But the whole payment model is as un-aggressive as you can get for a game like this, in my opinion.
It's also worth pointing out just how much like Journey this game is: it's a robust one-player experience, with a strong throughline from beginning to end. The differences with Journey come in the way of: a much longer post-game, far more to explore (more "side-quests" and extra areas), and more complex social interactions.
Last night's final climb alongside three strangers, who'd wait for each other or even come back if someone fell behind, was nothing short of beautiful.
Re: Poll: What's The Best Metroid Game?
@BloodNinja
I might look into that!
Re: Poll: What's The Best Metroid Game?
@John_Deacon
It's tricky to pull off, no doubt. To be fair, though, wall-jumping in Super Metroid is supposed to be a high-level skill. You only "need" it to get out of that one room that's also the tutorial for it. Other than that, along with the infinite bomb jump, it's mostly good for sequence-breaking (some of it rather insane, like reverse-order runs, which are hilarious).
Re: Poll: What's The Best Metroid Game?
@the_beaver
I don't have any console that can play it. I might end up emulating it, but that's usually a last recourse for me.
Re: Poll: What's The Best Metroid Game?
@the_beaver
I don't know, I mean, I'm slowly going through the original Metroid right now, in fact, and it's not like Super at all, hah. It controls well, but the level design (including the very 80s draw-your-own-map requirement), its willful obtuseness, and complete openness almost from the get-go is a very, very different deal from Super. Of course you can tell it's the same franchise and some of the art carries over, but that's about it.
Re: Poll: What's The Best Metroid Game?
@the_beaver
I haven't played Zero Mission yet, but I've played smoother-controlling Metroidvanias, like Axiom Verge or the mighty Hollow Knight. I still prefer Super Metroid to them, especially after my last few playthroughs this past year. It takes longer to get used to Super Metroid's controls, but I did get used to them, and that's what matters to me: whether or not you can eventually get used to — and even appreciate — a game's quirks.
It's like the Mario games. I just beat the first Super Mario yesterday for the first time. Growing up with Super Mario World, the physics in the 1985 original do take some getting used to. But I got used to them. And I ended up loving the original Mario to a degree I didn't expect to. The "dated" physics have a positive side to them: the sheer speed and inertia you can achieve through high-level Mario play exceeds what's possible in the more controlled, accessible World and even 3 (my favorite Mario game).
Re: Poll: What's The Best Metroid Game?
@the_beaver
I played Super Metroid and Metroid Prime almost at the same time, in the late 2000s. Still preferred Super.
"I didn't personally vibe with the game" is not synonymous with a mystical, profound understanding of the passage of time.
Re: Poll: What's The Best Metroid Game?
@lumothesinner
The controls "hold up," but there's a learning curve. I played it for the first time in 2008, on a keyboard with my computer, so I didn't have any useful muscle memory to fall back on last year and last month, when I played Super Metroid for the second and third times on my Switch. You can achieve a high level of precision, though it takes practice to learn the ins and outs. Satisfying once you manage it.
EDIT: That said, the grappling hook admittedly never gets not annoying, though I did finally manage to make peace with it during my last playthrough.
Re: Random: The Yiga Clan Will Even Steal The Master Sword In Zelda: Breath Of The Wild
The insane level of patience required to slowly lure that Yiga dude into the Lost Woods and the Master Sword is... worthy of respect.
Re: Sky: Children Of The Light Is Now Available For Free On Switch eShop
@Snatcher
I mean, the game's almost a decade old by now. And it was talked about a lot back in the day. It was a poster child for both indie gaming and games as art. So I guess those calling it "overrated" are thinking back to the mid-2010s.
I think "overrated" is one of the most useless words in existence, though. Along with "dated." But that's another conversation.
Re: Sky: Children Of The Light Is Now Available For Free On Switch eShop
@Snatcher
I think it's still a fairly iconic game. It straddles the line between walking simulator and puzzle-platformer, and was well-positioned, in the early 2010s, to take advantage of the changing videogame conversation of the time, with the rise of indies and a growing acceptance, across the wider culture, of videogames as an artform. (Coincidentally, the Smithsonian's landmark The Art of Videogames exhibition opened in March 2012, when Journey came out.) So it has a definite place in videogame history.
Re: Former Star Fox Programmer Would Be Interested In Making A New Entry Without The "Gimmicks"
I've only played the 90s games and I like them both quite a bit. They're very 90s, of course. If you did a game like that today, it'd get called "dated" by critics and players who don't understand what the word means.
You know what I would like, though? A version of the SNES game that receives the Virtua Racing Sega Ages treatment, with fewer jaggies and better frame rate. That'd be great. I played Star Fox last year for the first time and it's pretty awesome, just a simple on-rails shooter through a retro-futuristic abstract landscape. I dug it. But the frame rate's like five frames per second half the time. Difficult to adjust to.
Re: Review: Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 1 + 2 - A Rock Solid Switch Port For A Pair Of Pros
I'm definitely getting this. The only problem I had with the N64 original back in the day was its drab visual design, which has obviously received an overhaul here. Otherwise, this is one of the all-time great sports videogames (or just one of the all-time great videogame, period). And I don't even care for actual, real-life skating!
I think that, kind of like Rocket League, Tony Hawk benefits from stepping away from realism or simulation, and focusing on internal and videogame-exclusive logic and mechanics, which is what makes it endure, because it's just internally coherent and there's not a whole lot you need to change about it down the line. (Kind of like how chess isn't exactly a realistic representation of warfare, but no one has cared about that for hundreds of years.)
Re: Anniversary: The Nintendo 64 Launched 25 Years Ago Today
I wish I still had an N64.
The late 90s were a weird and exciting time for videogames, especially coming off the timeless refinement of the best SNES games. You play A Link to the Past or Super Metroid today (or yesterday, in my case) and they just exude absolute confidence. You play Final Fantasy VII and Super Mario 64, on the other hand, and they're comparatively scrappy and experimental, with lots of rough edges you have to forgive. At the same time, though, I actually appreciate that sense of experimentation and danger, the sheer variety of weird mini-games and art assets in Final Fantasy VII, the jazzy freestyle vibe of Mario 64, the wild ride that is Half Life (which kickstarted the whole linear cinematic shooter trend we're still living with, but because Half Life was first it's also — and thankfully — far more relaxed and hands-off than later cinematic shooters, including Half Life 2, which are always pushing you forward like a drill instructor). Anyway, I guess my point is that, if you can roll with the datedness of N64-era games, the datedness itself can become an asset rather than a fault.
Of course, then there's Doom, which came out way before the N64 and does 3D exploration better than most games being released today. It's insane. But Doom is Doom.
Re: Talking Point: Our Favourites From E3 2021
I mean, with an avatar like mine, I'm obviously going to go with Metroid Dread.
But I also really liked what I saw of Shin Megami Tensei V and Advance Wars. And beyond the Switch, Elden Ring and S.T.A.L.K.E.R. 2.
Zelda is my favorite franchise and I'm hyped for Breath of the Wild 2, but I don't think it's the star of this E3. Maybe next year.
That said, I hope people caught the Treehouse footage of all the Switch heavy-hitters. The trailers during the Direct were nice, but my anticipation for Dread and SMT V really grew once I saw them in motion during longer play sessions.
Re: Talking Point: Why Metroid Dread Will Be Worth $60
@Slowdive
I hear you. In fact, after binging on Dread news, I obviously had to boot up Super Metroid again. And here I am in the middle of a completionist run. Part of the reason why it remains so compelling is that, if you're good, you can actually finish it in about two or three hours. I take longer, though, because I haven't memorized the game yet. But it's still an 8 to 10 hour experience, tight and focused. And thus infinitely replayable. I haven't even tried doing crazy sequence-breaking yet. Doing research on that for next time!
Re: Talking Point: Why Metroid Dread Will Be Worth $60
Money is an abstraction. Videogames are of no real, tangible value. You pay what you're willing to pay. Companies charge what they think they can charge.
Price is not and should not be linked to playtime. Playtime means nothing. If I play a game for five hours but remember it for the rest of my life, that's what matters. I paid full price for a special edition of Link's Awakening in 2019. Finished it in 10 hours, still thinking about it regularly today.
Re: Talking Point: Nintendo Delivered An Excellent E3 Direct For Fans Old And New
@turnmebackwards
There was plenty for No More Heroes 3. Like, 30 minutes of it. They just... didn't mention it on the Direct, for some reason. Anyway, enjoy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rRbIMesXYw
Re: Where To Pre-Order Game & Watch: The Legend of Zelda
If I can find it in Argentina, I'll absolutely get this. I'm a big Zelda nerd and this has at least two of my favorite games in it: the original Zelda and Link's Awakening. (I say "at least" because Zelda II is one of the few mainline entries I haven't tried yet.) I played both on the Switch last year, but with Link's Awakening I've only played the remake. Which was great, but looking at screenshots of the original, I've always felt something was lost in the translation. Not because I didn't have fun with the remake (clearly, I did) but, in comparison to the other 2D Zeldas I was trying out at the same time (the 1986 original and A Link to the Past), the Link's Awakening remake felt slower, less responsive, somewhat clumsier. The diorama visuals are beautiful, but they impact the gameplay, I feel.
Re: New Zelda: Breath Of The Wild 2 Footage Shown, Aiming For A 2022 Switch Release
I'm confused by people expecting this to be a mere expansion of Breath of the Wild.
It's clearly a whole new game but with the same engine as its prequel. Like Majora's Mask on the N64. I'm sure some assets and locations will be similar, for poetic effect (and shortened development times), but otherwise it's obviously a major, mainline Zelda. That's why it's taking so long.
Re: Monster Hunter Stories 2: Wings Of Ruin Demo Lands Soon On Switch
@Tyranexx
Agreed! I really liked the Direct, too. Well-paced presentation with plenty of bangers. Advanced Wars, SMT V, Metroid (!!), and BOTW 2 gameplay were the highlights for me. There's plenty to look forward to.
Re: Roundup: Here's What Was Revealed In Nintendo Direct E3 2021
I thought that was an objectively great Direct. Actual gameplay footage from Breath of the Wild 2 showcasing gameplay mechanics (the rewind power, mostly), a new 2D Metroid with real Alien: Isolation vibes, the return of Advanced Wars (a game I missed), a release date and gameplay footage of Shin Megami Tensei V... I'm happy.
Re: Monster Hunter Stories 2: Wings Of Ruin Demo Lands Soon On Switch
@Tyranexx
I agree with you. Guardians does indeed look great and it was clearly the highlight — though they also spent too much time on it during the presentation, relative to the other announcements. But it looks like a good mix of Mass Effect and modern Final Fantasy, plus the Guardians. I'm on board.
But then the presentation took a dive, between the Final Fantasy collection not coming to the Switch for some reason, and should-have-been-mindblowing footage of Babylon's Fall and Final Fantasy Origins that defused whatever hype had been building for either.
With you on subjecting ourselves to our own private expectation mind-game pre-Nintendo-Direct.
Re: Monster Hunter Stories 2: Wings Of Ruin Demo Lands Soon On Switch
@Tyranexx
Microsoft/Xbox was pretty good, yeah. Not too keen on the other presentations. Ubisoft was underwhelming. Square was awful. Devolver was nice, but that wasn't an official E3 presentation and what I liked about it were all the gonzo and quirky theatrics around the actual game announcements, not the announcements themselves. So far, Microsoft's saving the expo. We'll see what Nintendo has for us tomorrow.
Re: Talking Point: Do You Replay Games?
I replay games often. I still search for new experiences, but with new experiences your head's too wrapped up in all the novelty to actually look at how the thing's put together.
Also, after enough years, I like to reevaluate games. I bounced off Half-Life 2 in 2009, so I replayed it in 2020 and finally jumped on the bandwagon. I never got along with Super Mario 3 in the early 90s, but it became one of my favorite games in 2019. You grow up and appreciate different things.
Re: Memory Pak: My Nostalgic Sonic 2 Playthrough Was A Treasured Gaming Moment
I had an experience like this last year, but with Donkey Kong Country 2.
The only difference with your story is that I'm much better at it now, in my 30s, than I was when I was a kid. But that's mostly down to playing Dark Souls in my 20s and leveling-up my Patience and Resolve stats across all genres.
Re: Feature: A Perfect Metascore? We Play The Switch Game "Better Than Zelda: Breath Of The Wild"
Also, do people not understand review aggregators? They've been around for a while. If your game has a handful of reviews and they're all positive, there's a chance you might have a higher percentage or average score than a historic videogame with dozens and dozens of reviews to its name. The article headline is obviously supposed to raise eyebrows and send tongues searching for the nearest cheek. No one's actually or seriously comparing both games here.
Re: Feature: A Perfect Metascore? We Play The Switch Game "Better Than Zelda: Breath Of The Wild"
@nessisonett
As if Breath of the Wild — the most widely canonized game of the past five years — needed defending at this point.
Re: Review: Wonder Boy: Asha In Monster World - A Fine Revival, Faithful To A Fault
@nessisonett
Yeah, it's particularly welcome when the "remastered" graphics are artistically terrible, like with R-Type Dimensions (which looks like a cheap mobile game) or the first Halo in the Master Chief Collection (which has awful, kitschy-gamer-laptop-style art design), both of which I play with their original graphics and ignore the modern options. In some cases, though, the ability to switch back and forth does let the more thoughtful remasters shine (like, ironically, the Halo 2 remaster, which rescued the botched, flat, rushed look of the original).
Re: Talking Point: When Was The Last Time A Game Cracked Your Top Five?
@everynowandben
I think there's something to that. I never played the original and loved the remake last year, but... every time I see footage of the original, I kind of wish I had played that, instead. I can't really compare the remake to the original, but I did play A Link to the Past and the first Legend of Zelda at around the same time in 2020, and I just felt like those 2D games felt faster and more satisfying to play than the toybox isometric thing from the Link's Awakening remake, which was comparatively methodical. Still a beautiful experience, but there's a charm and coherence to the old aesthetic, too.