Tokyo Mirage Sessions #FE has been largely well-recieved by western players, but there has been some controversy over the changes made from the Japanese version of the title. Elements of the title have been altered, removed or replaced with more "family-friendly" content, and this has caused many to accuse the localization team of self-censorship - some have even taken steps to reinstate things.
Co-director Mitsuru Hirata has now commented on the changes, stating that he was initially disappointed that the western version wouldn't be the same as the Japanese original. However, he says that the "passionate support" the title has recieved from fans outside of Japan has encouraged him:
When I found out we were unable to provide the same experience as the Japanese version, I also felt some disappointment. But our overseas fans remained happy that the game was being brought over and I'm glad to see their passionate support. In the meantime, the new costumes added could in a way be considered a merit that can only be enjoyed by our overseas fans! Thank you, and please look forward to the game!
And he has a point - a niche title such as this isn't a guaranteed release in the west, and you could argue that we're lucky it got localised at all - especially when the Wii U is struggling so badly at retail.
[source twitter.com, via nintendoeverything.com]
He does have a point. I may not be able to get the game for a month or so, but it's nice to know we're getting it.
I just don't get the point of toning the game down so much. Kids are not interested in Tokyo Mirage Sessions. It's a niche title and it's fans are old enough to deal with a little mature content.
Sounds nice. Who knows, maybe one day with creators like these who realize some parts of localization are not necessary and fans who cry out for the original experience, the publishers (or whoever responsible) won't feel the need to make such changes.
It got localized and hacked (ok too strong of a word) because Nintendo needed to fill a void for a summer release and that's the only reason. Otherwise if this was Atlus's game and theirs alone we may have seen one or 2 costume changes and not a whole wardrobe overhaul!
Initially? I'm pretty sure the enforced censorship is still a sort of disappointment, and they're trying to find the silver lining, possibly to push the product.
Also, the "at least we're getting the product" is a very unhealthy attitude to have. I mean, rather than companies saying:
"This game is niche, how can we make it appeal more to people"
...no instead, we have people, and possibly the companies themselves, thinking along the lines of:
"...the important thing is that game is coming to the West, that means censorship has to be stomached" (under the threat of similar games not being "localized" next time)
In Portugal I still havent seen a single copy....
He's disappointed? I'm disappointed. Serves the game right that it's a commercial failure. Bombs in Japan then skimps on any effort in the translation and expect us to pay more for less work than most other translations. Then add in day 1 DLC(which of course is censored as well), cut content, no English dub, censorship. Don't treat us like kids in a teen rated game.
It's unbelievable that he's trying to tell us that in a way we're lucky because we've got these censored costumes that the Japanese didn't get and as such they're exclusive.
The decision to do a cheap translation for the West would have been taken when NX was still planned for this year. So if they'd put some real effort in, its release date would have clashed with NX, cost a lot more and drowned even worse than it has.
Some of the changes were baffling, the manner some were executed were half-baked at best (like Tsubasa's wedding dress outfit where they turned her skin white in places) and the way the Central Shibuya idolasphere's dungeon was changed away from gravure modelling gave that chapter a rather odd, inconsistent tone.
Especially when some of the changed outfits still turned up anyway in ad-lib performances, or the 'dark fire' covering up Aversa in cutscenes doesn't appear in in-game combat.
Y'know, what I don't understand is that Nintendo decided to censor the 'risqué' content, but they didn't censor the other things which ESRB has on their site for the game such as foul language and alcohol, because I personally think that the former is far worse than some silly bikinis.
Because they left those things in, why censor the other things? Kids aren't interested in playing this type of game at all and their parents wouldn't allow them to play a game with foul language in it anyway. Nintendo's 'logic' is backwards, this game is aimed at ages and the types of people who don't mind any of the things that were censored. Then there's the fact that, well, I'm pretty sure that it still would have been a T rating if they didn't censor it at all so I have no idea what they were thinking...
@Pres_Shinra There wasn't a single copy for sale in Ireland either. Not the regular version nor the Fortissimo Edition. Well done Nintendo, that's how you ensure a product fails. I now have to scour the internet and try to buy the Fortissimo Edition from scumbag scalpers.
That whole dungeon censorship was ridiculous and complete overkill. They changed the meaning of it completely. Nintendo should be ashamed, treating Fire Emblem and Atlus fans like children!
The co-director agreeing is nice to know, but saying "It's better than nothing" is an unhealthy attitude and doesn't help Nintendo's current reputation.
I love this game. It's so fun.
Well, I have been very critical of Nintendo's dumb actions (and inactions), but at least they finally made their best business decision in years regarding developers!
Glad they found a passionate support from the fans, with all the negativity online around the localization I was really afraid we were sending the wrong message; I'm loving the game and I'm glad it got released in the west, that's the main message I want to send to the developers and Nintendo, if then as extra note they could consider to "localize" less next time then it would be even better XP (And maybe add more languages' options? I have no problem playing in english, but I shiver thinking how many sales this gem of a game surely missed in Europe cause of this T.T; ).
@Dakt And yet loads of other niche JRPG developers/publishers are just fine with keeping content intact.
Tokyo Mirage Sessions (TMS, abbreviate backwards and you got SMT = Shin Megami Tensei)♯FE (Fire Emblem) best RPG for Wii U and only Wii U. I'm just glad the game came so to wash away all those mediocrity that was Mighty No. 9 and that one Star Ocean game with the freaking long name.
The developers of the game should still be disappointed with the localisation effort. I'm sure that most of the fans who bought the game bought it DESPITE the censorship and no English language dub, and would rather have future games like this censored than no game at all (and due to region locking, no bypassing the censorship without a Japanese console.)
I guarantee you that if the game was the same as the Japanese version, a lot more fans would have bought it in the West (including myself) and would made this game sell better. Thank goodness there's a patch for this, because it's the main reason i'll be getting the game now.
I think something like this is pretty important. Up until now, I largely assumed the Japanese devs didn't care how their games were percieved outside their country, just if it was selling or not. The fact that a co-director was dissatisfied by the localization speaks volumes.
@C-Olimar You say that but my 7 year old daughter loves it. I've no issue with them making the changes they did, as it makes no difference at all to the gameplay.
I might have bought it if it featured more nudity.
@SLIGEACH_EIRE I got it down here in Cork no problem. Maybe its just the smaller towns and villages that didn't bother stocking the game. I'm going to make a wild prediction and say your from sligo.
@FlashmanHarry Where did you buy it? Gamestop were listing it on their website at €80 for just the game prior to launch and then €60. But I've been to Gamestop, never seen it and their website has no price or stock.
It's looking like a fun classic JRPG getting good reviews and praise for alot of fans it is ashame that it's on the Wii U at the end of its life cycle but I wouldn't mind seeing a sequel on the NX tho.
The treehouse guys are really full on on this title. This is what keeping me from buying it ATM due to the censorship on the boobiez (just so everyone knows, I'm in a happy relationship but it doesn't mean I can't enjoy virtual boobies ok?)
A clear example of why it does count as censorship. It's never something that's decided by the actual creators.
It's just bureaucrats thinking they know what's best, based on nothing but their general impression.
When even the co-director is against censorship, you know it's bad.
@Peace-Boy Yes, but this isn't a niche JRPG publisher. This is Nintendo. No other company in the industry has the reputation and public image that Nintendo has built, and frankly, any potential PR backlash from the media has the ability to do much more damage to the brand than a vocal subset of fans upset over localization changes, ESPECIALLY in this time of transition.
Love this game- it's so good. But gosh dang those savage mirages are cutthroat. They one shotted Tsubasa, Itsuki and Touma like bam. Done. Game over.
This article just shows how much red tape policies are in the way of localizations.
@darkgamer001 Yeah, it's like Nintendo are saying "Even if it's not perfect, it's better than nothng"
That is interesting, but I wonder what the other 2 directors (Eiji Ishida and Kaori Ando) think about it. If all 3 were disappointed in the same way with limited control, then we got a story.
I'm planning to start playing this game tonight. I'm not normally into JRPGs - wish me luck!
I just picked up the game, enjoying it so far. Editing/censoring still sucks regardless what it is though.
@whitespy12 Oh, I get what you mean. But this is a niche game, is anyone really going to care about the content in it besides the people who like these types of games? The general public aren't going to go look up games, see this and look up the publisher, then go bash Nintendo for pointless reasons.
Nintendo talks about taking risks with their own franchises like Zelda, why don't they do that here? Are they seriously that scared? They're meant to please and care about their fans, not the general public, but if they do then that's a great bonus.
By the way, Nintendo published Bayonetta 2, EXPLAIN THAT. None of the general public cared about what was in it or what it was about and that game is 1000x worse than TMS#FE.
Sony doesn't censor any games on PlayStation, I mean, look at all the fan service games on the Vita(as well as several on PS3/PS4).
Oh, and go look at the latest Pokemon trailers, there's a beach scene with a girl wearing a bikini, I guess they're going to censor that too?
This is truly a case where a game's release is, indeed, better than nothing.
Of course don't forget who got a Tracer victory pose from Overwatch changed because of too much ass? And Rainbow Mika's ass slap too. Not to mention Dead or Alive Xtreme 3 got no Western release
This game could of flown under the radar but better to play it safe I guess.
@deKay it does make a difference to the story and the message is trying to convey
@Angelic_Lapras_King the Tracer pose was changed because even the developers did not like it. It was out of character for tracer. So they gave her a sexual pose that is more in character of her
@SamirMalik not to me, because I don't know what the original was. Makes no difference to the gameplay.
I for one don't care if it has slightly less animated cleavage. Looking forward to actually playing and enjoying the game itself.
@Dakt Look at my last comment which is just above yours, please.
@Peace-Boy Whitespy12 said it best. . "This is Nintendo. No other company in the industry has the reputation and public image that Nintendo has built, and frankly, any potential PR backlash from the media has the ability to do much more damage to the brand than a vocal subset of fans upset over localization changes, ESPECIALLY in this time of transition."
As for Bayonetts, she is not a teenager. She's a grown woman. Just like Firore Burnelli in Star Ocean 5 She's a grown woman. America recently got rid of swimsuit part of Miss Teen USA. I never saw the point in that in the first place so I saw that as sensible. Recently in America, there have been two cases of teenage girls being found years after disappeareance in basements of people who abused thdm. No I'm not conflating the two incidents but had a game like #FE been big it possibly would have been a target and demonized. Even though America does at he same time America does not like to sexualize teenagers and children like Japan does. I hope everything I am saying is making sense. Its 4AM here.
@shonenjump86 There's a fan made patch that de-censors everything and basically restores it to the way it was before. Nintendo Life has the link in this article to another article about it.
Yeah, I remember seeing that article not to long ago. Thanks
This is basically what I say when I see people calling for boycotts over localization. We're lucky to be getting these niche games at all, and if you want to keep getting them, support them, even if they have minor changes (and yes, most of the changes are very minor). Boycotting a game because a bikini became shorts only sends the message that niche games don't sell, not that you don't like the localization.
@ziffy No offense, but I think you need to see a psychiatrist if you seriously think FICTIONAL teen characters in a VIDEO GAME set in a FICTIONAL version of JAPAN, where the ages aren't as strict anyway, would be an issue in REAL LIFE.
If you were to look in the game's files, you can see they're just a bunch of polygons, pixels and stuff, not flesh and bone with a soul.
Have you played Persona? I haven't played it, but I do know for a fact that it has teenagers doing sexual things or something like that, even more so in P4 Golden. That's probably one of the most popular yet niche titles ever released, I don't see anybody complaining about that.
He is right. The Wii U sold poorly and I`m not sure they`ll get their investment back. We lucky to have it at all.
PS: This is a perfect game to port to the NX. Not many people will buy it on the Wii U, it'll be like a brand new game to almost everyone.
@TrueWiiMaster Most of them are minor? OBJECTION!
A WHOLE chapter was changed in TMS#FE, and in total in the game, over 300 lines of dialogue was changed. People are shocked that they even went so far as to redo the voice acting for the lines, even though no one understood Japanese so that wouldn't even matter. If you think that's minor, then I suggest you get your brain checked.
A lot of the content related to the story, but that was changed and now contains contradictions to the source material of what it was based on, which was idol culture.
@Peace-Boy I never knew the changes were so significant. That sucks.
@MGray If you want, you can get more details on the censorship here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AsjWqCHPZ0w
"It's better than nothing".
You said it yourself, Damien... it's a niche title. It has a niche audience... There was no need to patronise and belittle that audience and cause people within that audience to not want to buy the game.
I would give just about anything to see Nintendo of America's reaction to the fanbase, the developer's disappointment, and the upcoming "de-censor" patch. Especially that last one.
Do you think Nintendo Treehouse regrets their decisions?
I said most of the changes made are very minor, not all. I don't consider changing an entire class in Bravely Second minor, for example. That said, I watched the video you posted , and the changes made to the dialogue were very insignificant. Basically, Nintendo made a lot of skimpy outfits less skimpy, and raised a bunch of ages a little, and the dialogue had to be redone to reflect those minor changes. In other words, it was the vocal equivalent to changing a bikini into shorts, which I consider a very minor change. The "whole chapter" that Nintendo changed was changing gravure modelling to just regular modelling, another small change which has almost no effect on the game other than making outfits less revealing.
@Utena-mobile Remember, Treehouse is full of a lot of different people. Some people regretted it from the start, but they had a job to do. Some didn't think it mattered too much, etc etc.
As an SMT fan, this game couldn't have been farther out my radar, even without the changes from what I played of the Japanese release. Still, when a friend gave me the game to try out, didn't have much else to play so I went through until maybe the final dungeon. I saw the localization changes, and it honestly doesn't feel, personally, that they did much damage to the story or anything. Yes I saw the vid detailing the changes, it still seems as good (or bad in my case) as it seemed in the original release. If you like the concept at play, the game will definitely still give you that.
That said, I was just fine with Bravely Second, and Fatal Frame's differences, especially the latter since the Nintendo costumes that replaced the old ones looked great.
@TrueWiiMaster Gravure modelling was what the game was based on, therefore this game has contradictions to the source material.
The game was based on Japan culture, meaning this censorship = a misinterpretation of what Japan is like. THAT is NOT minor.
At 5:42 in the video, "Overseas, she overcomes the fear of simply regular modelling", this makes NO sense in the slightest, why on Earth would anyone be scared of regular modelling? It makes much more sense for her to be scared of gravure modelling. THIS is a major change in the game's plot and character development, to change this back would mean you would have to change everything else back to match, so yes, this IS a major change. Then there's the fact that she's meant to spin to strip her clothes off, not somehow magically put more fancy clothes on, where does she even get those extra clothes from??
Also, one DLC was not released in the west, that's major.
@SLIGEACH_EIRE I picked it up in my local gamestop in Midleton.
Doesnt bother me much. Im just glad it came to the US at all. Sold out everywhere else.Its funny that this director said this but another said the oppisite. Lol. oh well. I gor the game. Still enjoy the game. Along with my kids playing it and loved it. So i dont regret a single dime. Thanks Atlus. yeah censorship suck but it didnt effect gameplay or much of the story rather. Neither did the DLC.
SMT series has branched out to kids in the past IIRC (Demikids, was it?), but when it comes to Persona subfranchise (which TMS #FE seems to have most in common among the Megatens), what part of it was ever meant for the demographic you'd have to bowdlerise outfits from? Alas, such censorship still existing is an alarming notion as a price to pay for the ignorance of parents who can't seem to heed or even care about what entities like ESRB are all about. And then this censorship becomes borderline silly, further suggesting that localisation teams barely know what to expect from such people. Yet another atavistic feature of early gaming generations.
Quite enjoying it myself. I like my roommate's point it was teen rated in Japan and it makes sense to have a similar rating here and possibly open it up to more people then the Mature rating would have.
@Dakt Headlines? What headlines? They shouldn't care. You and many others don't seem to grasp that video games are a work of fiction.
To quote one of my previous comments "No offense, but I think you need to see a psychiatrist if you seriously think FICTIONAL teen characters in a VIDEO GAME set in a FICTIONAL version of JAPAN, where the ages aren't as strict anyway, would be an issue in REAL LIFE.
If you were to look in the game's files, you can see they're just a bunch of polygons, pixels and stuff, not flesh and bone with a soul."
All Nintendo has to do is put "This video game is a work of fiction, do not think any of the events or characters in the game are real. They are done purely for entertainment purposes only. Thank you." and be done with it, not waste time and effort in censoring content in which case this is what they're getting now: 1000s of fans complaining.
Note: maybe not 1000s of fans for this game alone, FE Fates of course is a lot more popular.
sigh...a 'better than nothing' mentality is something you'd expect from the Mighty No.9 guys painful memories of donating to that kickstarter and still not receiving the "game"
....but when it's coming from Nintendo (well, the Western branches anyway) and its fans...it stings, not gonna lie.
@Dakt No, I did know about the Tomodachi Life thing. But that doesn't matter, because you still don't understand that video games are a work of fiction.
Y'know what? I'm getting bored of this conversation. I'll say this though: I was telling my dad about these idiots on here who think that works of fiction affect things in real life and he basically just said how people have been brainwashed to believe this nonsense.
And you know what? He's right, so I'm ignoring anyone who does believe that nonsense and that means you.
Have a good day in your fictional world of pure imaginative nonsense. Good bye.
@Dakt Oh look, a kids company published Fatal Frame 5, Bayonetta 2 and Eternal Darkness. All M rated. Might I add that if I remember correctly, Nintendo voluntarily published B2 and covered all costs for it. I also found out that they wanted the extra Nintendo themed costumes in B2 as sexual as possible.
If you were to actually use your brain once in this conversation, you would realise that we would get nowhere by arguing with the same things back and forth, therefore neither of us will get anywhere.
Thing is, I've already explained my point, like, 5 times already: VIDEO GAMES ARE FICTION AND HAVE NO IMPACT ON REALITY.
Seriously, I don't see kids eating red/green polka dot mushrooms, red/blue flowers, leafs, or anything that resembles a power up from Mario. I don't see anything of the sort that happens in a video game being reenacted in real life.
I've also never heard of any reports on people trying to act out the events in Persona, which involves teenagers engaging in sexual things and the like, which is similar to TMS#FE. That series wouldn't even be played by children and neither would TMS#FE, because they're not aimed at kids, it's rated M and T after all. And if kids did play Persona, they would probably be traumatized.
Also, I doubt that kids would understand games like Fire Emblem and dark Zelda games like TP & MM. If Nintendo was truly a kids ONLY company, then why the heck did they even make Fire Emblem and those Zelda games? Wouldn't they make more simple games that kids would understand? Why did they publish the above games I mentioned? (Bayonetta 2, etc.) Why didn't they get censor the rest of the content in TMS#FE(Foul language and alcohol as mentioned by ESRB)? Do you think Nintendo thinks that those things are alright for kids? Those things are far worse than some stupid bikinis. Then there's Metroid, that series would probably scare kids. Also, Samus in her Zero Suit... why? She has a big chest & behind and I don't think Nintendo would have that if they were truly a kids ONLY company. She was in her Zero Suit a lot in Other M, that game was rated 16+ in Europe, by the way. Also, why does Nintendo allow T rated and M rated games from other publishers even go on their console? If they were truly a kids ONLY company, then they would be like "No, we're not allowing T rated or M rated games on our consoles. Censor it all the offending content and then we'll talk."
Sigh... I think I'm done, but that's a LOT. There's several questions for you to think about that should nullify your point of "Nintendo's a kids company".
@Peace-Boy They are a bunch of pixels. The public at large would not see them as pixels. Especially when the pixels are ment to portray children. Case in point the demonization of Doom after its release. Mortal Kombat the game that led to the creation of the ESRB. It doesn't matter what I think. It matters wht the public at large thinks. The masses can make or break you. Wii 100 million. Wii U 12 million.
Actually, this game is based on Japanese idol culture, of which gravure modelling is a subset. Also, to suggest that not including gravure modelling somehow misrepresents Japan is just completely wrong. Japan has regular modelling too, so it works perfectly as a representation of Japanese modelling. Yes, that specific chapter was about gravure modelling, but it makes very little difference if it's changed to regular modelling. It pretty much means, as I said, changing a bikini to shorts.
"At 5:42 in the video, "Overseas, she overcomes the fear of simply regular modelling", this makes NO sense in the slightest, why on Earth would anyone be scared of regular modelling?"
Actually, I think most people would have a problem with modelling, just as they have a problem with public speaking. It's completely natural for someone to overcome that. It doesn't have to be a fear of gravure modelling to work, and it still amounts to the same character development (overcoming a fear).
"Then there's the fact that she's meant to spin to strip her clothes off, not somehow magically put more fancy clothes on, where does she even get those extra clothes from??"
Really? In a game that's about Japanese idols fighting monsters alongside other-dimensional beings, you're upset that she spun around and her clothes changed? This is really a non-issue.
You're right about the DLC, but since that's not part of the main game anyway, it's kind of a separate issue. They're just not releasing something extra that released in Japan.
@Peace-Boy "Regular Modelling" can be scary. If you stopped to pay attention to any of the women in your life they would tell you how body conscious they are. I dont get it but I acknowledge it. I accepted that that is how the vast majority of females I have known have felt. I have met woemn who are afraid to go to the doctor because of how they feel about their bodies. Makes no sense but I do my best to help. Even if that means doing nothing at all.
@Peace-Boy Nitendo publishes a lot of sexual ganes. But not outside of japan. Many of these can be seen if you switch your Miiverse region to Japan. For your safety while using your isp I suggest that you do not click on these titles. NOJ has so many sexual games. They are smart and know that to release thsese games would be stupid. Sadly yes I am talking about "those games". Even Nintendo would sell "those games".
@Dakt Sad to say but Peace-Boy might need to be disbarred. Maybe he can go play piano somewhere.
There are different standards in different places.
Game changes in localization often reflect those standards. As do games never coming out in some markets.
Many of these relate to the sexualization or stereotypical portrayal of the characters.
Other times, changes are made because something common in one place is completely foreign to another country or culture.
Both types of changes are seen in this game. But without those changes, it is doubtful those outside of Japan would have ever seen this game.
Many other mediums have to be changed to be shown in or work in another place. For example, most other countries allow far more skin — and far less violence — to be shown on TV than in the United States. So you have blurred patches when shows are brought to the US and violence cuts when shows are sold from the US.
People may not like it — but it is the way of the world.
@TrueWiiMaster I honestly give up with you. It's clear I can't get through to you myself.
@ziffy 1. Of course it's nothing to do with what you think, but the public should understand that games are a work of fiction. Simple enough.
2. I don't talk to people I don't know anyway. The women I did meet in my life were either family or teachers/tutors, none of which I want to discuss a rather uninteresting and disturbing topic.
3. I have no idea what games you're on about, I only know of the ones they've released in the west as well as the popular unreleased ones like Mother 3.
4. Haa haa, very funny. I object to you sir, for I am terrible at piano.
@Dakt My point with those games wasn't whether they were censored or not, it was to argue with your point that you think Nintendo is a kids only company. Do you seriously think that a kid would play a horror game like Fatal Frame? Think again, because that would traumatize the poor things. Same goes for Eternal Darkness. Kids wouldn't play a game like Bayonetta 2 either, because it's far too hard and the various content in it would be bad for their poor ears and eyes.
Again, VIDEO GAMES ARE FICTION AND DON'T IMPACT REALITY.
You said something that can easily be counteracted: 'If a parent sees a headline titled "Nintendo says NO to gays"', if that were to happen, that parent then just needs to think to themselves that video games are fiction and that they're not meant to represent real life. Either that or, they complain about it, then Nintendo just needs to say the statement themselves: "Dear sir/madam, Video games in general, including the one you're complaining about, are a work of fiction. They are not meant to represent reality in any shape or form. Thank you for your time and happy gaming."
There, now that's not so hard is it? It's as easy as 1, 2, 3 and a, b, c. Even my 12 year old nephew could understand this that games are a work of fiction and don't impact reality.
I'm comparing you to a 12 year old, how do you feel now?
@Dakt You clearly said Nintendo is a kids company.
Did you even read that part after I said what that parent should think? Nintendo would need to tell the idiots themselves. If I was in charge of those decisions, I definitely would have done that and I would lead them to glory.
By the way, if I'm a brick wall then you're a potato.
@Dakt So I guess you're going to say that my family doesn't understand how the world works, because they do and far more than you do. All of my sisters, brothers and parents are older than you and know how the world works, they also know for a fact that games along with other media are works of fiction and don't affect reality.
My friend thinks you're a 9 year old by the way.
Seriously though, I suggest you get your brain checked, because this is beyond ridiculous. It's like you think you're in Narnia.
I've reached my limit now in this argument, good bye forever.
Advertising is fiction too but it still affects reality. The way things are portrayed in media can affect how people think about things. Media can affect peoples opinions and over time change what people consider normal. You seem to acknowledge this on some level or you wouldn't be concerned about children playing M rated games. That people play GTA and don't go out and kill people afterwards doesn't mean they don't have an affect on people.
I'll tell you why swearing and alcohol (and violence, for that matter) don't get censored. It's because this current wave of censorship is not about protecting kids. This is a very specific attempt by SJWs to control what males can see and do. They actually think they have ownership of female imagery, even when the characters are completely fictitious, and especially when it's in a way that men are particularly likely to enjoy.
It is their control over me that I object to; it's not that I am particularly interested in seeing the bikinis in the game.
To think this is just Nintendo protecting its image as a kids'/family-friendly company is to completely misunderstand the issue.
Do any of you guys realize how many "politically incorrect", if you will, titles (and well-known ones) exist on other platforms, with near full blown sex scenes, gore, etc.
Pump the brakes. An uncensored TMS in the West would've sent any self respecting parent rushing away from the demonic Wii U towards the safe space haven of the PS4, with its family friendly fun provided by Witcher 3 and Sony's own God of War, among others.
I mean people are bringing up Tomodachi Life. Fair enough. I'm sure the company wasn't happy about that and I do remember the ridiculous headlines. Fast forward a bit and you've got Tomodachi Life establishing itself in the West and the handheld it's on hitting 60 million units sold. So what did those SJW clickbait headlines and tears achieve? A fat load of good, that's what they got out of all that.
I think people here, and by the looks of things, the guys at Nintendo too, fear the SJW/concerned parent influence just a tad too much. And in the latter's case, by doing so, alienating a part of their core fanbase. A darn shame....but anyway, that's my 2c.
@Peace-Boy Thanks for the info, PeaceBoy! But actually, if I saw it, it could ruin the image i have of the game. I do hope to play it someday hehe.
@MGray What do you mean by 'image of the game'?
@Peace-Boy Well, for me this game is a beautiful JRPG, and I'd hate to think it was well, destroyed. I don't read japanese, so I'll only be able to play the localized version. In essence, I wanna play it first before I know how awful the localization was. Lol
EDIT: I love Fire Emblem and Shin Megami Tensei.
@MGray There is a fan made patch that de-censors the game completely and restores it to the way it was before, so you could play it the way it's supposed to be played without worrying about your image of the game. You can find a link to it on a Nintendo Life article from a few days back.
@Peace-Boy I`m actually against mods. But this one is the opposite. It gives us what we shoulve`ve got in the first place. As soon as I get my Wii U( My ex got ours in the divorce lol ), I`ll buy the game for sure, and download the patch hehe
Still glad we got it.
Still will be waiting for a price drop though.
Sorry Hirata-san, I know you MIGHT not be disappointed anymore, but I still am.
Still wanna play the game, but still don't want to pay full-price for what's essentially a chewed up bone.
If there were one thing I could encourage players to understand, it would be that you are not "lucky" to have games localized for you. You are not "lucky" to have content cut, you are not "lucky" to have character names changed because of groundless lawsuit fears, you are not "lucky" to be treated like a pre-sex talk child.
You are also not obligated to support these practices with your money, out of concern that not buying will keep them from ever publishing certain games in the west again. That is like Stockholm syndrome and, if anything, is the best possible reason for you to not buy these games. Don't be treated like a child, don't have your intelligence insulted. Speaking with your wallet works both ways; how Nintendo interprets poor sales is entirely up to them but with the Internet at our collective disposal, it would not be hard for them to stumble upon why.
It is also deplorable for Nintendo to maintain region lock in an age where even Microsoft no longer uses it. This and their censorship tactics imply an obsessive need to control their audience and dictate to them what is acceptable on their hardware. Well, no, Nintendo. Technology and the gaming public have grown up. Forcibly limiting the consumer's options does nothing but foster resentment and indifference, typically in that order.
The point of all this is: you have a choice. You can shrug things off and say it's no big deal, give them your money. But at least ask yourself if supporting this kind of crappy committee thinking is, in any way, a good thing? Your ability to choose is what is important here. To have the decision about what you're comfortable with seeing firmly in your hands, and not decided for you by a company whose motives for this are honestly mystifying.
@AVahne Again, there is a fan made patch that de-censors everything in the game and restores it to the way it was before, so you can get still get the full experience that way.
@MGray There's also a patch for FE: Fates if you're interested, but you'd have to research on that yourself, because I have no idea where it is or how to do it.
@Peace-Boy Yeh good to know. I haven`t bought FE: Fates, though. I did complete FE Awakening and it was just awesome. But I think I'll buy Bravely Default(played the demo) first, then FE: Fates, Bravely Second and FE: Conquest.
Even the developers of the game are disappointed!
@Peace-Boy "I don't talk to people I don't know anyway." How can that be when you talking to me? You might see it as "uninteresting" and "disturbing" but this is not fictional this is the truth. http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2012/06/02/why-do-women-hate-their-bodies/
@MGray What is wrong with modding?
@ziffy The internet is different. I'm not the type of person that just walks up to random people and starts a conversation out of nowhere. If you met me outside in real life, I would be really quiet and just try to avoid you.
I only read a bit at the beginning of that article. Again, I find it uninteresting. Anyway, when I said 'disturbing', I meant for them to talk about it, not just me. I mean, I'm not the type of person to even bring up a conversation about a girl's body, because that would sound weird, they would probably call me a pervert. That's the first they would do, then they would call the police.
Yes I know about it and whenever I ever get around to installing homebrew on my Wii U, I'll use that patch. But for now I'm in no rush.
I just wanted to play this game, you guys are getting out of hand over all this nonsense. If you want a true M rated game go on over and play on your Xbone and PS4s. This is Nintendo, family friendly; not boobs everywhere and jiggle physics.
I can tell by the way you speak (write) and also that you spoke to your father about the issues you're discussing with others, you are a teenager maybe younger, but that's unlikely . That is not in any way a slight against you sir. Personally I've spent way more time than I care to admit reading your little back and forth with some of the folks here. You seem to perceive what is being told to you in a certain manner and continue to bring out the same points. These guys keep telling you about Nintendo's public image and the public's point of view. You seem to perceive this as people not being able to differentiate video games from real life. It seems you were raised right by your pops and ma, therefore you can tell the difference. Sadly not everyone has such good parents. Some people don't bother teaching their kids this. Something which the media worsens at times with their ignorant ,sometimes borderline retarded assumptions and coverage of video games. The media doesn't care that a game is rated M or T just that it has some absurd content which will "pervert" our youth. Nintendo is one of the few companies who still holds a good reputation with parents, because most of their character stable is kid friendly. Don't confuse that with Nintendo never publishing mature content. Japan and U.S. are two entirely different cultures. What is acceptable in one might not be in another. Take a minute to widen your understanding of cultural differences and how the smallest of things can cause an uproar in a part of the world where elsewhere not even a shrug is induced.This is the reason for all sorts of censorship, not just in video games. Sorry for the rant
@whanvee You could have just looked on my profile for my age, y'know? And how is the way I speak in any way related to age? Everyone has a different way of talking. (By the way, most of the people I've met, teenagers, have terrible grammar, spelling, etc. and I was literally the only one who preferred typing/writing correctly and still do. Though, my family also seem to have bad grammar and use slang.)
"These guys keep telling you about Nintendo's public image and the public's point of view. You seem to perceive this as people not being able to differentiate video games from real life."
Because that's clearly the case. Nintendo's public image won't be ruined if they use the logical move of telling the people who complain that video games are different from real life. They can please both parties then: The people who complain about censorship and whoever complains about the content being in there or whatever.
"Sadly not everyone has such good parents. Some people don't bother teaching their kids this."
Seriously? It's a fact of life, I've known loads of people who know the difference. It's other things they don't teach their kids really, such as how to use money properly and how to behave properly.
"Japan and U.S. are two entirely different cultures. What is acceptable in one might not be in another. Take a minute to widen your understanding of cultural differences and how the smallest of things can cause an uproar in a part of the world where elsewhere not even a shrug is induced."
Hey, I know about cultural differences, but there's loads of games already released that don't get censored, or as much as what TMS#FE got and they're completely fine. Go look at ESRB's listing for Persona, that's one of the most popular JRPGs that's also niche. TMS#FE isn't nearly as bad as that without the censoring, I think it still would have got a T rating if the content was still in.
Bayonetta 2 was published by Nintendo and that wasn't censored at all. Senran Kagura is on the 3DS, how come that's allowed, actually, how come it's allowed to release at all?
Now you see, TMS#FE wouldn't have been given a second thought if it wasn't censored. The only headlines it's got is "Nintendo's censored Tokyo Mirage Sessions #FE".
Also, I suggest you think for a minute about ludicrous the censorship is in TMS#FE... they censored a wedding dress, how exactly is that harmful in western countries? That's a normal thing that children and literally every person in the world has seen in real life. Actually, now that I think about it, everything is normal in that game, so why censor it in the first place?
@ziffy Well, I just don`t do it lol nothing against people who do
You speak in a very polite manner.Something very rarely found online. That's how I could tell without checking your profile.
You keep talking about bayonetta, it was rated M. Meaning if any parent is dumb enough to show that game to their kids it's on them. SMT I believe is also rated M. It seems the games which Nintendo likes to censor are games rated T or under. I think they are just trying to avoid one of those moments when a parent walks by and has to take a second look at the screen. Then they ask "what the heck is this? I thought it was suitable for kids". You never know nowadays.
A girl underaged decides to cosplay as one of these sexy outfit chicks. She goes to some expo and ends up having some nasty experience due to her outfit. Some sort of experience which might haunt her for life. The parents will most likely blame Nintendo, and sue, for their own lack of parenting skills. They will say all those pervy outfits in the game destroyed their daughters young mind and costed her some of her innocence. This will be nationally panned and Nintendo's image will suffer for it, whether it's their fault or not. This censorship is them dotting their I's and crossing their T's. It's them watching out for themselves. Mostly because people nowadays are pretty dumb and sue happy.
This is a stupid example of course but it's not beyond the realm of possibility. With bayonneta Nintendo can blame the ignorance on parents letting their 15-16 year old play an M rated game. What can they say when the game is rated T? Not much that will win them any favor in court once a lynch mob starts and rials against them.
We would all like to have games reach us here in the same way they came out originally. Sadly companies have to protect themselves and their money. Sometimes this means censorship at other times games don't even make it out here.It's life no need to waste so much of your time trying to prove your point. In the end we all see things differently. Knowing and understanding this will save you lots of headaches in the future. Sometimes people will argue with you just to get under your skin. At other times it might be because they believe they are right. If you can't make someone understand your point after two tries, they never will. It's something you would do well to learn, for your sake and no one else's.
@whanvee Nintendo still censored Fatal Frame though. XD
They removed some bizarre costumes, but leaving them in wouldn't have made a difference as it still would have been M rated.
TMS#FE is based in Japan, shouldn't parents know about cultural differences?
How exactly would parents even find this game anyway? I would think they would just go into a game store, but the shelves usually just contain mainstream titles so parents wouldn't be able to see it there. This is a very niche game. I can't imagine them paying eShop prices either...
If parents really were to get this game intending for their kids and then complain about the content being inappropriate for them, then there would be tons of reports for loads of other niche T-rated games because the same thing would easily happen for those. What makes this one special? Nothing, because it's still niche just like others. I wouldn't expect a parent to find this game easily unless they already knew about it, but if they knew about it, they wouldn't get it because of the content in it.
TMS#FE still isn't suitable for kids anyway, so basically parents are fine with their kids learning foul language and a urge to drink alcohol? Because that's what's in the game according to ESRB.
There's also some inconsistencies with the censorship, the video I posted in a previous comment explains them at 3:25, 4:28 and 6:08. Here you go for convenience: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AsjWqCHPZ0w
Oh boy, can't wait to hear the reports of parents complaining about the content in the game. /sarcasm
None of your points referring to this game make sense, if Nintendo really was 'trying' to make the game safe for kids to play so parents wouldn't complain at them, well, they weren't really trying were they?
So clearly there's another reason as to why they censored it.
Also, another thing: Some costumes in the game, before it was censored, are normal. Why would parents complain about those? A wedding dress and bikinis. Literally every person in the world including children should have seen those things in real life. Heck, my mother goes around in a bikini whenever it's sunny and hot.
To summarize my points:
1. Parents should know about cultural differences themselves.
2. Parents wouldn't find this game on any store shelves because it's niche.
3. Parents wouldn't even look for this game if they knew about it because of the content in it.
4. Parents complaining about the content in it if they did somehow get the game? The same thing would happen for loads of other niche T rated titles.
5. There's other inappropriate content that parents should be more concerned about in the game, such as foul language and alcohol, which is still in.
6. Inconsistent censoring of costumes and cleavage.
7. Nintendo isn't trying to stop parents complaining at them if their kids are playing it.
8. There's clearly another reason for this censorship.
9. Costumes in this game are NORMAL: bikinis and a wedding dress. Parents would NOT be complaining about those.
@Peace-Boy I was talking about asking an adult woman in your life. Only an adult woman would have the capacity intelligence and nuance to tell you about these feelings. If you ask they will be happy that you noticed something they would never tell you. They will love and appreciate this attentiveness.
@ziffy ... I really don't think so.
@deKay part of playing an RPG is experiencing the story. And yes there is a problem in the story where it contradicts because of the censorship. In chapter 2 Tsubasa is supposed to be in a bikini posing like a girly girl. In the censored version she puts on Street clothing and acts like a tomboy. This is bad because she didn't forget that she acts like a tomboy in chapter 4 when she starts struggling with her TV role that wants her to act like a tomboy.
@SamirMalik I'm on chapter 5 now and haven't noticed anything out of place, so only did because I was told by you. It still doesn't change the game mechanics in the slightest.
@deKay do you not understand one of the major appeals of playing a JRPG? The story. Keep talking about mechanics but that's obviously why you didn't come to the game to begin with, with how it was marketed
@SamirMalik the setting and the style is what brought me to it. Not the story. I had no idea what that was. But what has kept me playing has been the mechanics - which are vitally important in a JRPG. The story is great too, though, but that's not why I bought the game and it's not noticeably changed from the original to those of us who haven't read about the original. They're really minor cosmetic changes anyway.
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