Last week, we reported on accusations that Hyperkin had infringed on the right of emulator authors with its RetroN 5 console, and at the time we gave Hyperkin the chance to put across its side of the story.
We've now had an official response from Hyperkin developer Lawrence Lee:
It has always been our intention to release the relevant source code for the open source emulators used within RetroN 5. We have not been as quick as we could have been, since we have been busy improving the RetroN 5 user experience. The relevant source code has now been released. From this point forward we will not only keep our copy of this code updated for those who wish to obtain the latest version, but also submit patches for any fixes that we implement back to the original projects so that the entire community may benefit. Hyperkin will continue to endeavor to fulfill the licenses of any project used within RetroN 5 and any other software we write.
In case you weren't aware, the RetroN 5 is an all-in-one gaming system which runs software from multiple retro consoles, including the Mega Drive / Genesis, NES, SNES and Game Boy Advance.
Comments 33
Ok, fair enough. The good thing that came out of all of this was me becoming aware of the RetroArch project. I am still uncertain if I will get a RetroN5... I will decide when it becomes availabe in Euroland.
They're still violating the non-commercial license of the Snes9x core, aren't they? There's no dodging that one.
Im confused should I wait for this new thing instead of retron 5?
The signing keys are the important bit. Then someone can have a go at removing Android.
Got my attention....
This looks cool cause of all my old GBA games, but I don't own a single NES/SNES/Genesis game, so....
I'd rather play all my games on their original hardware.
@Zwayne93
In that case, just get a GameCube and a GBA Player.
@dragon_warrior1 "stole" from "free" emulators.
Emulation is perfectly legal. Downloading and playing games you don't own isn't. It's not the same.
By the way this is just damage control, I don't think they ever intended to release anything.
https://twitter.com/Hyperkin/status/481857441332596737
Guess they'll delete this tweet now but no worries, I have saved this just in case.
Byt the way this doesn't change anything, they are still using RetroArch's resampler code which is covered under the GPLv3 which means they should release their complete frontend code. Also they are still using several emulators that were released under non-commercial licenses which can't be used for commercial products.
If anything I find their response funny. I'll just quote myself (from a reddit thread):
Thing about this is that they are not responding to any of the public threads now floating around regarding this matter (there are 2 reddit threads and the blog post at libretro's). And now their page lists a contact email ([email protected]). My guess is they plan to offer "financial compensation" in exchange for a license exception.
Another shady thing is that they kind of refused to address this being an emulator and there have been claims here and there about everything being developed from scratch. As far as I know they have a follow up to the RetroN5 that plays DOS games (funny thing, they called it a "DOS box" in an interview and in the AMA thread they claimed they are creating their own solution instead of Dosbox). Nothing else has been said about that. Maybe they are waiting for the new DOSbox-libretro port?
They should really read the licenses of the cores. They are even including the original SNES9X license on the source package but I guess they never read it.
Well, whatever the truth of the situation is, they've done the right thing now at least.
I presume.
Well that is a good first step, but still doesn't fix all the issues. I am going to grab my popcorn for when the people at sites like slashdot finally get ahold of this.
@Sforzando "Free" means they won't charge you money. It does not mean you can steal their copyright. It's like your comic website. It's free, but can I steal your comic and say I made it? Think not. "Stole from free emulators" is a valid statement.
@Sforzando It's the difference between Gratis and Libre, with a caveat. To quote wikipedia on this (mostly because I am too lazy to write my own definition), " 'Gratis' pertains to being able to access and use the code, without a price-barrier, and 'Libre' pertains to being allowed to modify and re-use the code, without a permission barrier." So as I see it, GPL (and all copyleft licenses) is not truly Libre or Gratis but somewhere in the middle because for most users it is libre (they will never modify code so it is not a concern, but it does restrict those that do).
Under the GPL license the authors used, "the author retains copyright and permits redistribution under the restriction that all such redistribution is licensed under the same license. Additions and modifications by others must also be licensed under the same 'copyleft' license whenever they are distributed with part of the original licensed product." One of those restrictions on one of the projects apparently is "no commercialization", and under GPLv3 one of the restrictions is "no Tivoization" (Open Source code on a machine with hardware preventing the running of code modifications.) which is possibly another stumbling block.
Hope that helps to clarify a little.
EDIT: Lots of mistakes and clarifying for an easier read
@DarkLloyd Ehm... this IS the Retron 5 so what ever do you mean by "should I wait for this new thing instead of retron 5"?
@Prime the emulation on most Retron consoles is spot on and for ALL consoles supported, you can plug in the original joypads, so other than your cartridges sticking out of a different plastic box, you won't notice the difference while playing. And the model 5 adds so much more: HDMI support, HD upscaling, screen options such as scan lines to get that "old tv look" and so much more.
What's the problem? They're selling the hardware, which allows people to play all of their cartridges if they don't have functioning consoles anymore, which is to be expected, after so many years. That's basically a PC with cartridges slots, that's all. As long as they say they don't own the software, or even giving an option to load it into the machine...
I'm reminded of that recent Neo Geo release where data mining fdound emulator corea for many non-Neo Geo systems and even a PS1 BIOS.
I'm also reminding of that time when ScummVM was ported to the Wii and not given any credit:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ScummVM#Mistic.27s_GPL_violations
I am almost buying a Retron 5. The only thing holding me is that they suggested a few months ago they might include N64 emulation in an upcoming model.
Simple, they got caught with their pants down now trying to cover it up.
Now what would happen if Nintendo started knocking on the doors of every ROM developer? Not only would their pants be down, but their legs would probably fall off as well.
@Obito_Tennyson rom developer?? woot??
Although I prefer original consoles, as a collector I do love the Retron 5. I'm not a big emulator guy, but maybe someone knows something. I always thought people use emulators to play custom games and ROM hacks, etc. (In addition to checking out the original releases), but The Retron 5 doesn't seem to play some unlicensed, pirate games, multi-carts or ROM hacks...Strange because I thought emulators did. About a fourth of my carts won't even play in the Retron 5; Arcade Donkey Kong, anything with Sonic on a Nintendo or Mario in a Sonic game or even legal Multi-carts like Nichibutsu Arcade Classics for Super Famicom. Anyone know why? I mean it is impressive that a (clone) system will play Dragon Warrior and Castlevania III, and Famicom Star Wars...But it doesn't play everything.
@GoldLeader I'm not sure but from my digging, the RetroN5 has lists of sets of games with their hashes. It could be for something like cheats... or to make sure people don't play flash carts or something.
DRM on a Retro console
BTW this isn't a hardware clone AT ALL.
Yeah I know it's technically not a clone console, but I think of it in the same way, ya know? My latest- Vindicators (Tengen) plays fine as does Death Race. Wario Blast for GameBoy has no sound for the bombs, but maybe if I update it, that will be fixed. Chronicle of the Radia War in English (Repro) will not play and Zombie Nation plays as Unknown Cartridge...For the record, my NEX will play almost everything this will not play...
@Prime Who wouldn't prefer that? Sometimes it's just not possible.
@Prime That's your opinion (sounded a bit harsh though, or that's just me) and I respect that, but a lot of people either don't have all these consoles (anymore), are only just now getting interested in retro gaming and/or have some defective consoles lying around and not enough money to get them all fixed. This is then the cheaper option and like I said: because you can use your original cartridges and controllers you would never know the difference if you wouldn't be able to see the box your cartridges will be sticking out of. The difference is only in your mind and is, in my humble opinion a bit too much of a purist mindset. It's simply a good solution for some of us and we should probably see it as such. And it's also nice to have all these extra graphics modifying options on a modern TV as well, because most old consoles look like doggeypoop on a full HD TV without something done to the picture.
If you still have all your consoles in working order (as I have) then this isn't necessary, but for quite a few people this is a nice solution, also to save space by only having to place one console instead of five underneath your TV set.
As for Nintendo not supporting this: well, Hyperkin has been doing this for quite a few years now and this is their fifth console, so if Nintendo or any other party that they offer support for would have taken offense to it, I doubt they would have waited until now. Actually, Nintendo probably doesn't mind all that much because you will still have to get peripherals and cartridges, which is legal, so using a console like the Retron 5 will actually stop a certain percentage of people pirating their older software.
My own opinion is that I don't care if someone uses emulators or not, clone systems or not, but I do agree with Prime that the magic is present with the real hardware. Most Clone systems will almost always nearly perfectly play MOST games...And emus are OK if you want to be 8 inches from a computer screen and not on a couch like in your childhood. And it is neat to use a Retron 5 to see an NES game running through HDMI, just like it's neat to use a Retro Duo and what feels like a SNES controller (or even an actual SNES controller) to play NES games. I think what bothers most people is when someone uses an emulator and acts like they own every game. Are you playing Ultimate Qix at the wrong speed? Does your Wario Blast lack bomb explosion sounds? Then your emulator is Not the same as playing on original hardware! And sometimes it's not the same as playing on a clone system...
That the games are being software emulated rather than hardware emulated in the first place is kind of a moodkiller for me.
@Prime I'm not understanding your response to my question. lol
@Prime Duh? If you want to be rude about it, then same to you, pal...duh.
I'll have to ask my mommy and daddy if they can raise my allowance. Or maybe Santa will help me this year. Fingers crossed.
...and your response to my statement is starting to make sense now, I realize you don't totally understand what's being talked about.
@Prime lol Excuse me? You have no authority over me here, so I'll comment whenever I want to, and on whatever I want to. How's that sound?
Maybe NL could create a "Comment Regulator" job and hire you as the lead guy? You'd even be in charge of the Moderators. That would be awesome!
@Prime Uhm if I stop commenting it will be because I want to, not because your panties are all in a bunch about it. lol
...and it's not like I'm forcing you to reply, so lay off the giving orders to other members. lol
What's my problem? I really don't have one.
Why the agression? I don't see anything of what I've said as hostile at all. Sarcastic definitely, but not aggressive, and as far as I know sarcasm isn't against the rules here. Once you become the Comment Regulator you can forbid the use of sarcasm in the comments.
That right there^ is what's known as "sarcasm". FYI
@Prime You want me to shut up? Ok, I'm gonna say...no. Telling me to shut up is taking things to a new level, one which I never went to with my comments. I could rage or insult you if I wanted, but I choose sarcasm instead.
You keep mentioning that I'M wasting YOUR time, yet you keep replying to me of your own free will. That's kinda.....well, dumb. I'm not calling you dumb, but your logic certainly is. Not to mention you've declared you're no longer going to reply....twice. lol
There's no set time limit for commenting on threads, so stop acting like there is, pal. This isn't a typical forum in which threads get bumped up when there's a new comment made. Try and wrap your head around the implications of that, pal.
Some people find sarcasm funny and a non-hostile way to react. Obviously you don't like it, but I really don't care. lol
If taking 3 minutes every other day to make a comment is wasting my life....I guess I've squandered 20 minutes of my life commenting on this article. How tragic. lol
You must be pretty emotionally fragile to be offended by everything I've said. Oh, and about me supposedly wasting your time, do you think I'm really concerned about that at this point? Think hard about that one, you'll eventually get it, pal.
NOTE: Please disregard everything I've said, pal.
Tap here to load 33 comments
Leave A Comment
Hold on there, you need to login to post a comment...