Topic: I'm done(*) with WiiWare

After reading this ( https://www.nintendolife.com/forums/wiiware/interesting_info_f... ) topic, I think I'm done with WiiWare. I know my not buying it won't help the developers cause, but with these mystical milestones have in place are met NONE of our money is going to the developers, you know the people that put their money and effort into the game while Nintendo grabs it all.

If you notice I added (*) to the word done in the title. I am done with it until Nintendo can show good reason why these developers aren't getting paid with the current system. Good reason isn't "it's just part of the contract", good reason would be Nintendo has to pay for marketing costs (but since no marketing costs no money that one doesn't fly) or Nintendo showing that they are using the most overpriced servers in the world and spending too much on bandwidth, things of that nature.

The #1 reason give against emulation is that the developers don't get anything from it. This is exactly the same. Nintendo is basically stealing from these men and women and profiting handily from it. But you won't hear many people say that, they'll look at the smiling face of Mario or listen to Reggie give his spiel and all will be ok because hey, it's Nintendo and they care.

All it means is if a minimum requirement is not met then it wont be profitable, ofcourse developers are paid, they wouldn't be lining up to throw there money away, they do so because there is an opportunity to make money, not without its risks like any business really, but wiiware does make money.

Nintendo is just doing things the way that they've determined will make the most money for both parties in the end. they've worked the numbers and that's the way it comes out. if a game doesn't sell well enough, then it's not profitable for either party. Nintendo has to get over the cost of hosting the game first, before the developer can earn any money from it. so it's perfectly fair, and there's no theft involved. besides, these developers know the risks. if they weren't willing to go through that possibility, they'd have become PC freeware developers and gotten other jobs in their spare time.

that said, even if Nintendo weren't doing right, i still wouldn't quit WiiWare cold turkey. i'd be missing out on too many fantastic (and cheap) games that way that i would never get to play otherwise. and if Ninty were truly doing wrong, then that info would eventually come out, and/or all the devs that put out WiiWare games would quit and the service would die save for all the games that are already out... and i would own the good ones. everybody wins

I agree with Rowdy. A system where you make a game, put it up on a service, and not get rewarded is not a fair system. Simple as that.

Nintendo's not stealing if the developers agreed to their terms before release

It's a stupid rule, but the developer knows that going in, so boohoo for them. Should have made a better game or not chosen WiiWare if they thought it would be so risky. The few games I buy on WiiWare are almost certainly going to bring in money anyway, so I don't worry about Nintendo ripping off the developers I support.

but how can they pay the developers if its not profitable? besides you have the opposite problem with wii retail, ie no real limits meaning tons of shovelware, wiiware isn't exactly free of shovelware, but it has a better record than retail IMO.

I'm not quitting on Wiiware, at least not until Cave Story is released

Developers can make a wonderful game, but if Nintendo choose to give the game too high of a price (say 1000 points instead of the 500 points a developer may have had in mind when creating the game), few people will buy it.

LET'S DEVELOP GAMES FOR WIIWARE BECAUSE NINTENDO HEATS WITH MONEY
WAIT A MINUTE, WHERE IS THE MONEY?
I KNOW OUR GAME DIDN'T DO WELL BUT WHY DO 2DBOY EARN MORE THAN WE DO?
THAT'S NOT FAIR

by the way, Nintendo have been in the game industry for many years, they must know if it's the right thing to lower the price of the game

Your loss. Like Adam said, the developers agree to everything beforehand, and most of the complainers don't make very good games anyway.

Well I'm not entirely sure about this so don't kill me if i'm wrong okay.

For a retail game they have to pay a licensing fee to Nintendo before they can sell their game, that's how business work. But since wiiware is small games from small developers with small budgets this isn't directly the right choice for that system. So withe wiiware they don't have to pay a licensing fee which makes the cost of starting a project smaller, but when you sell the game, Nintendo first takes the money for the licensing etc. and after that the developers make profit.

Note this is not based on actual facts just on seeing similar types of systems in other businesses and it just makes sense i think.

The developers absolutely had to have agreed to these things before release; there's no way Ninty wouldn't have had them sign a contract on it before any money for a development kit changed hands. With WiiWare/DSiWare, companies were fighting for the chance to develop for it if i remember correctly, and surely if they didn't like the terms, they were free to develop for other consoles/services instead. WiiWare sounds like something that's going to pay off over time -- no instant gratification for developers -- so if a game still isn't profitable after a couple of years, it's time for the developers to look at whatever feedback they received on their game, professional and unprofessional alike, and figure out where they went wrong.

And they knew that in advance, Vince. I'm not saying it's a good rule, but they knew it in advance, so it's their problem, not the consumer's. It's not like there aren't other options: XBLA (and the indie portion that accepts all games), PSN, Steam, iTunes, etc., not to mention independent distribution via PC downloads. And yet they chose WiiWare, despite knowing of this stupid rule, so I can say nothing else but boohoo for them.

From crunchgear:
NA
Games over 16MB – 6000 units
Under 16MB – 4000 units

Europe
Games over 16MB – 3000 units
Under 16MB – 2000 units

And the game gets two years to reach that target. Then they get 65/35 in the favor of the developers.

I don't really see a problem. Nintendo is just trying to avoid shovelware. When developers still agree to release there game, and it's crap, then it's there loss. And to be honest, it doesn't sounds that hard to reach this number.

I do agree that Nintendo should help with advertisement. I think that every Friday/Monday, they should just send a simpel text message to the message board telling the people that a new game has been released.

If the developers don't get paid, there wouldn't be any wiiware games SIMPLE AS THAT.

Whoever said that all of the developers don't get paid?

Well, if you quit wiiware, it's your loss.
Anyways, I think it's more of the developers fault. If they would take the time to make a nice game, it would sell well, make money, and everyone would be happy. If the developers decided to make a crappy shovelware game, it wouldn't sell well, and they wouldn't make money.
I do agree that developers should be able to pick their own price, though.

Are you serious? Do you believe Nintendo put a gun to these guys heads and forced them to develop games to put on WiiWare? If Nintendo is violating the terms of their contract then they'll be facing a lawsuit or a class action. Clearly the developers know what they're getting into and if they aren't prepared to self-publish then it should be lesson learned and try harder to get the word out next time or make sure to negotiate better terms.

I do think that Nintendo should do sales on downloads and such, but I also understand that there is discussion on price with the devs -- Nintendo doesn't just pull a number out of the air.

If you want to work on injustice in this world there are plenty of real issues out there to put your attention towards, this is definitely not one of them.

That's why if I was a developer I'd stick with Xbox Live Arcade. Forget WiiWare and DSiWare.