Topic: If Nintendo would announce that the next Zelda has the same graphical style Wind Wakers has, how would u react?

@WaltzElf

Nope, the question is: what's your opinion on a graphical change.

And yet the basic formula of going into dungeon, getting item, killing boss, going into next dungeon... hasn't changed at all, and is horribly stale now as far as I'm concerned.

Obviously the games have changed to suit the times from the Nes 8-bit days. Games in general are easier etc etc etc.

But compare to Final Fantasy. Final Fantasy has changed in all the ways you outlined above, AND in every FF game there is an attempt to change the fundamental gameplay mechanics. Different levelling systems, different approaches to combat, different characters etc etc. Zelda has none of that. It's the exact same progression from start to end, with the exact same characters, the exact same puzzle structure and so on.

Zelda's core gameplay needs to change, not the gimmicks or superficial top layer.

I don't care. Cel shading looks good, realistic looks good. Hell, I love minimalism, so I'd love a monocrome, noir-style Zelda or even wireframe.

The graphics have never killed a zelda game for me.

I'd be very happy, but would fear the backlash, and never go on the internet ever again. EVER!!! D:

_{i daren't even read this thread, cos i know whats in it}

_{edit: ok, read it, and am pleasantly surprised, dudes!}

Eh, I greatly disagree. LoZ's core design principles that you've lain out are pretty vague. You go into dungeons, get items, and beat bosses? Seriously, that's it? Final Fantasy has just as much in common between each entry. They all focus on leveling up your party by fighting minor enemies in order to gain the strength to tackle greater enemies.

Sure, that's the basic RPG formula, but it's one of the very first JRPGs, even if it stole much of that formula from Dragon Quest. And should Zelda be looked down upon for being original? The game defied genre and still gets mixed up with RPGs as people don't know what to classify it as. There are countless games like Final Fantasy (even if they aren't as good) -- Japan is an RPG-making machine -- and yet not many games have had the gall to try to out-Zelda Zelda.

Neutopia copied the 2D Zelda; Okami copied the 3D Zelda... but aside from that, the list is not long, and so I can hardly see how Zelda would be stale when FF isn't, when all it does with each new entry is come up with yet another unnecessarily complicated new system to learn. I would say that is a superficial top layer as it is a mere barrier to the core mechanics of fighting and leveling.

I can't think of a better way to express how that would make me feel.

Wind Waker was very pretty, but it's not what comes to mind when I think of a Zelda game.

Wind Waker was my favorite Zelda game and I like that graphical style. Now if they said it had the graphical style and that the game was actually going to be good (unlike Twighlight Princess) then I would be really happy

Well, the way in which you level up in Final Fantasy is also fundamentally different in each game, while the dungeon design is almost identical from Zelda to Zelda, and the items are typically repeated from game to game.

Anecdotal, I know, but each Final Fantasy game does feel genuinely fresh to me, whereas I've ended up with the same impression of every Zelda game since Ocarina of Time: they're just paler and paler copies of previous games in the series.

And I think the confusion from people who think of Zelda as an RPG stems more from a lack of understanding what an RPG is than from confusion over what Zelda is. Again, anecdotal, but of the many I've spoken to or seen on forums who claim Zelda is an RPG, hardly any of them know that Dungeons and Dragons exists outside of videogames (demonstrating a critically-limited understanding of RPGs), and define RPG as "fantasy setting with fights and levelling up" - which of course Zelda is, so if that really was the definition of RPG, Zelda would indeed be an RPG.

I agree with ReZone. Although I loved the graphical style of Wind Waker, Twilight Princess's graphics suit Zelda FAR more.

I couldn't agree more that each Zelda since Ocarina of Time feels likes paler and paler copies of that game. However, you initially said they were copies of the NES game, and that couldn't be farther from the truth. A quick skim of the items list of Spirit Tracks (haven't played it myself) reveals that the only carry-over items from the first Zelda are the classics: sword, shield, bomb, boomerang, and bow and arrow. Can't really complain about that. But I don't see the blue and red rings, the fire wand, the blue and red candles, the book, the raft, the stepladder, the power ring, etc. The changes between games pre-Ocarina were significant enough that the series has definitely seen huge change. Ever since Aonuma took over, these changes have been more superficial, yes, but that's only long after they've departed from the NES formula and content for the most part.

I wouldn't react.

I don't really know. While I thought the the WW style was good and enhanced the fun, it took down the overall epicness (I don't care if that's real word or not) of the game. However, if it had a more realistic look, I'd have to put on my poker face and take it seriously, which would make me hate the oddball characters even more than I would in a WW style game. The only thing I would complain about is for Nintendo to make sure the overall game fits the style of the game.

@WaltzElf

Don't worry, if the minor core changes in Final Fantasy satisfy u. The wii motion plus implemention and the change in the flow of the game (according to Anouma) in the new Zelda will satisfy u!

The fact that u think the dungeon design is almost the same makes me think u haven't played through the games. City in the sky??? Yeti's house??? just 2 examples of unique dungeons in Twilight Princess.

Zelda has got the same main character in the same green tunic again and again, maybe this is misleading to you. Final Fantasy changes cast and decor, maybe this makes it seem fresher.

There are many similarities between Zelda's, those similarities make it Zelda games.
Don't get me wrong, changes are welcome, and needed to evolve the series.

I can't for the life of me imagine how Wii Motion Plus will change how the Zelda game is played. Make the controls easier and more enjoyable to mess with? Possibly, but Wii Sports to Wii Sports Resort didn't create a fundamentally different game, and I don't expect motion plus to do any differently with Zelda.

"Changing the flow of gameplay" does sound like what I'd want, but then again that could also end up being like Majora's Mask - the same damn game as Ocarina of Time, but with a gimmick that, depending on who you talk to, was either really neat, or quite stupid. (I didn't mind the gimmick, I did object to the sameness of the game otherwise, though.)

Any Zelda game has a differently-themed dungeon (Although Twilight Princess was certainly at fault for having samey dungeon themes to Ocarina of time as well) - but the actual structure of the dungeon doesn't change, as far as I'm concerned. Same puzzles, and same strategies to defeat the end boss (hint: Use the new item you found in that dungeon!) - it's ridiculously simple and predictable.

I struggled with Zelda: Ocarina of Time. I got stuck on the puzzles often, and found the bosses tough. However, by the end of the game, I was familiar with the formula. Every Zelda game since, by applying that formula, has been boring, easy, and straightforward as a result. Anything "new" has been nothing more than a gimmick.

Final Fantasy changes way more than cast and decor. It changes virtually everything.

I would have an joygasm. I think the cell shaded look is much better than the semi-realism look, but since Zelda Wii seems to be aiming for more realistic gameplay, the cell shaded look seems quite unlikely. Especially considering the teaser art.

Honestly, I wouldn't care. It's just graphics. As long as it's a true Zelda game, I'm good.

Well, Motion Plus could have a huge impact. Nintendo cannot realistically expect players to swing the sword constantly throughout the game, Waltz, so they definitely have to change the game to make it fit. I could see two possible routes to go, though Nintendo could surely think of more.

1) Change how frequently you use the sword. Perhaps we won't use the sword as much and we'll instead focus on another weapon, like a crossbow. Or perhaps combat will be infrequent, if not to the extent of Shadow of Colossus.
2) Change the flow of the game so that it is more suitable to playing in short bursts. Perhaps dungeons will be shorter but more plentiful. Or perhaps it'll be something less dramatic, such as being able to save anywhere and restart from your exact point.

I'd love for option 1 to happen. They could really make sword duels epic and dramatic this way while opening doors to new kinds of combat for Link. Option 2 seems more likely, though perhaps it'll be both. Or maybe they'll just make motion control optional, though that would be boring and un-Nintendo of them.

@WaltzElf

You have got some good points, as far as Zelda goes.

You just can't expect Nintendo to drop the elements that make it instantly recognisable as a zelda game, it's what makes a franchise strong and gives it personality. Again, changes are welcome. While the more conventional elements make it a Zelda game the changes should make it more than just another Zelda.

Let's just wait and see instead of complaining before we have seen a trailer, or even better: played the game.

@Adam

How about just switching to a shouldercam when u Z target? That's when motion plus comes into play and u control the sword like in wii sports resort (maybe link will even become a bit transparent).

I'm not sure what you're getting at with that, Buttons. What you say makes sense on its own, but I don't understand it in the context of a reply to my post, which dealt with another aspect of M+'s impact on the game. I was talking about how the M+ would fit in the overall game design, not how it would function at a basic level. What you describe seems likely, but it doesn't account for the fact that constant motion control would be tiring and ruin the game. TP's waggle was annoying enough, and this would require much more effort. Nintendo needs to rethink the game so that either sword play is less frequent or shorter play times are somehow encouraged and reinforced by the overall game design. Either way, we are looking at a different take on Zelda, I think, whether we have a shouldercam or something else.

I would literally pee myself in excitement