3D World has the spin jump / long jump / backflip you just don't need them until the special worlds. (Any level they might be used has a cat suit - If the level has one I get it - If there isn't then I don't use one).
I would be all for mandating those moves throughout the game (Allow an easy way by pulling a Tanooki suit from another level).
Yes, in fact, it is a big deal because it's not a 3D Mario game in the same way that all of the other 3D Mario games are 3D Mario games. It's another good local coop game which, while overpopulated on Wii U, is new territory for the series.
Yeah, instead it's a 3D Mario game in the same vein as NSMB which makes it even less distinctive from other Mario games. Both 2D and 3D Mario are following the same formula now and it's beyond tiresome. Mario is overdue for a major change. Or at least a collectathon game to break up the monotony of having every Mario game be a classic style linear platformer with the exact same movesets and mechanics every time.
As for run controls, I find both schemes very comfortable. It's all about player preference. There's no universally most comfortable scheme. Personally, I prefer the simplicity of the A-B scheme, but some people prefer the trigger scheme. Which scheme better suits the game depends almost entirely on game design. Mario games are and have always been an exercise in simplicity, so mapping two or three commands to the same button makes a lot of sense. Also considering they wanted to suppirt the single Wiimote control scheme, there really is no other way they could've mapped the buttons by default (though an ability to customize controls would never go amiss.)
The thing is that doing more functions with less inputs isn't necessarily simpler. In fact, it's often more complicated and challenging. I had this conversation with my dad several years ago regarding Madden vs. Atari 2600 Super Challenge football. In Madden, you have the convenience of mapping every receiver to a face button and choosing a play from a specific list. In Atari football, you are forced to make your own plays and choose a receiver using only a joy stick and a single button. You also have far more freedom of movement. As a result, the game is actually a lot harder and more difficult to master.
I feel a similar issue falls upon the controls of 2D Mario games. Mapping the 3 functions to the same button forces the player to incorporate a lot more precision and specificity in their timing of button presses and movement so as not to do an unintended action. This adds a lot more complexity in the gameplay itself, even though, on the surface the controls appear more complex. To me, Mario 3D World's controls make the experience straight up unpleasant, effectively ruining a game with great level design.
Currently Playing: Steamworld Heist, The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask, Tales of Graces F
The fact that they didn't recognize that shows just how disconnected from the reasonable zeitgeist they are.
Or that your opinions are not, as you have long suspected, actually facts.
Did I say 'my opinions are facts?' No? Then I didn't mean that 'my opinions are facts.' Stop putting words in my mouth.
While art is subjective, there can be consensus among a group of people and I contend that most people who enjoyed Paper Mario enjoyed it first for the story, then for the RPG systems.
Artistic freedom is all good and well, but the other side of that coin is criticism. I would contend that whatever instinct that drove Intelligent Systems (or perhaps Miyamoto) to make the game that way was a bad choice; a use of artistic freedom that resulted in less enjoyable art for many.
Not to mention that it's easy to see how much easier Sticker Star's dumbed down combat system, story, and removed character progression system would be to make than anything akin to the previous 2 Paper Mario's. Artistic freedom, whether or not it was what created Sticker Star, obviously doesn't always result in better art. 'Art from adversity' being a thing and all.
Yes, in fact, it is a big deal because it's not a 3D Mario game in the same way that all of the other 3D Mario games are 3D Mario games. It's another good local coop game which, while overpopulated on Wii U, is new territory for the series.
Yeah, instead it's a 3D Mario game in the same vein as NSMB which makes it even less distinctive from other Mario games. Both 2D and 3D Mario are following the same formula now and it's beyond tiresome. Mario is overdue for a major change. Or at least a collectathon game to break up the monotony of having every Mario game be a classic style linear platformer with the exact same movesets and mechanics every time.
As for run controls, I find both schemes very comfortable. It's all about player preference. There's no universally most comfortable scheme. Personally, I prefer the simplicity of the A-B scheme, but some people prefer the trigger scheme. Which scheme better suits the game depends almost entirely on game design. Mario games are and have always been an exercise in simplicity, so mapping two or three commands to the same button makes a lot of sense. Also considering they wanted to suppirt the single Wiimote control scheme, there really is no other way they could've mapped the buttons by default (though an ability to customize controls would never go amiss.)
The thing is that doing more functions with less inputs isn't necessarily simpler. In fact, it's often more complicated and challenging. I had this conversation with my dad several years ago regarding Madden vs. Atari 2600 Super Challenge football. In Madden, you have the convenience of mapping every receiver to a face button and choosing a play from a specific list. In Atari football, you are forced to make your own plays and choose a receiver using only a joy stick and a single button. You also have far more freedom of movement. As a result, the game is actually a lot harder and more difficult to master.
I feel a similar issue falls upon the controls of 2D Mario games. Mapping the 3 functions to the same button forces the player to incorporate a lot more precision and specificity in their timing of button presses and movement so as not to do an unintended action. This adds a lot more complexity in the gameplay itself, even though, on the surface the controls appear more complex. To me, Mario 3D World's controls make the experience straight up unpleasant, effectively ruining a game with great level design.
If the actions are dissimilar and contextual, then I agree, but the actions work similarly in this case, making the two-button set up work just fine. The fact that you don't need to press separate buttons to pick things up while tunning makes the game play a lot smoother and simpler than it would if you had grab, spin, run, and attack all on separate buttons.
Again, it's all about how the game is designed. Mario's design leaves little to no need for more than two buttons, while Rayman would struggle with less inputs than it already has.
What you have just described is what I want (Although I still think it is too forgiving).
I consider what you seem to want the same as refusing to learn to ride a bike properly and always using a tricycle because it is easier (But less fun).
“30fps Is Not a Good Artistic Decision, It's a Failure”
Freedom of the press is for those who happen to own one.
Again, it's all about how the game is designed. Mario's design leaves little to no need for more than two buttons, while Rayman would struggle with less inputs than it already has.
2001 called, it said it controllers have more buttons now. Also, the entire of 7th gen left a message, it wanted to introduce you to its friend, options menus and rebind-able buttons.
Again, it's all about how the game is designed. Mario's design leaves little to no need for more than two buttons, while Rayman would struggle with less inputs than it already has.
2001 called, it said it controllers have more buttons now. Also, the entire of 7th gen left a message, it wanted to introduce you to its friend, options menus and rebind-able buttons.
Really? How many buttons does a Wii Remote have that you can use comfortably? The Wii remote is still a supported controller and is a focus in 3D World's Multiplayer. 2 Button design is still needed.
People keep saying the Xbox One doesn't have Backwards Compatibility.
I don't think they know what Backwards Compatibility means...
3DS Friend Code: 2621-2786-9784 | Nintendo Network ID: DefHalan
Yes, in fact, it is a big deal because it's not a 3D Mario game in the same way that all of the other 3D Mario games are 3D Mario games. It's another good local coop game which, while overpopulated on Wii U, is new territory for the series.
Yeah, instead it's a 3D Mario game in the same vein as NSMB which makes it even less distinctive from other Mario games. Both 2D and 3D Mario are following the same formula now and it's beyond tiresome. Mario is overdue for a major change. Or at least a collectathon game to break up the monotony of having every Mario game be a classic style linear platformer with the exact same movesets and mechanics every time.
As for run controls, I find both schemes very comfortable. It's all about player preference. There's no universally most comfortable scheme. Personally, I prefer the simplicity of the A-B scheme, but some people prefer the trigger scheme. Which scheme better suits the game depends almost entirely on game design. Mario games are and have always been an exercise in simplicity, so mapping two or three commands to the same button makes a lot of sense. Also considering they wanted to suppirt the single Wiimote control scheme, there really is no other way they could've mapped the buttons by default (though an ability to customize controls would never go amiss.)
The thing is that doing more functions with less inputs isn't necessarily simpler. In fact, it's often more complicated and challenging. I had this conversation with my dad several years ago regarding Madden vs. Atari 2600 Super Challenge football. In Madden, you have the convenience of mapping every receiver to a face button and choosing a play from a specific list. In Atari football, you are forced to make your own plays and choose a receiver using only a joy stick and a single button. You also have far more freedom of movement. As a result, the game is actually a lot harder and more difficult to master.
I feel a similar issue falls upon the controls of 2D Mario games. Mapping the 3 functions to the same button forces the player to incorporate a lot more precision and specificity in their timing of button presses and movement so as not to do an unintended action. This adds a lot more complexity in the gameplay itself, even though, on the surface the controls appear more complex. To me, Mario 3D World's controls make the experience straight up unpleasant, effectively ruining a game with great level design.
If the actions are dissimilar and contextual, then I agree, but the actions work similarly in this case, making the two-button set up work just fine. The fact that you don't need to press separate buttons to pick things up while tunning makes the game play a lot smoother and simpler than it would if you had grab, spin, run, and attack all on separate buttons.
Again, it's all about how the game is designed. Mario's design leaves little to no need for more than two buttons, while Rayman would struggle with less inputs than it already has.
I'd argue when actions are dissimilar and contextual, it's LESS complicated. A functioning as a "select" button and as a "jump" button in a game isn't all that complicated because it doesn't force the player to play around the controls. They are very natural in different contexts.
On the other hand, when they are not contextual like in 2D Mario games, the player is forced to play around it. If I start running next to an item that is holdable, I will accidentally start holding it. Mario 64 really got the controls right, as it implements many more functions than the 2D games without actually adding new controls. They converted the "hold" button to a "pick up/throw" button, so the player isn't forced to hold onto the input, and made it contextual, so that the which button to press when is natural with the gameplay.
If you don't want to do analog Run, Mario could easily benefit from moving running to a trigger, such to free up a face button for a separate pick up/throw function.
Currently Playing: Steamworld Heist, The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask, Tales of Graces F
Again, it's all about how the game is designed. Mario's design leaves little to no need for more than two buttons, while Rayman would struggle with less inputs than it already has.
2001 called, it said it controllers have more buttons now. Also, the entire of 7th gen left a message, it wanted to introduce you to its friend, options menus and rebind-able buttons.
Really? How many buttons does a Wii Remote have that you can use comfortably? The Wii remote is still a supported controller and is a focus in 3D World's Multiplayer. 2 Button design is still needed.
So is the microphone, would you use the microphone to control a video game? I WOULDN'T EITHER. The wiimote + the nunchuck had plenty of buttons to use, as do the gamepad, wii u pro controller, and 3DS; Nintendo's 3 most current controllers.
Again, it's all about how the game is designed. Mario's design leaves little to no need for more than two buttons, while Rayman would struggle with less inputs than it already has.
2001 called, it said it controllers have more buttons now. Also, the entire of 7th gen left a message, it wanted to introduce you to its friend, options menus and rebind-able buttons.
Really? How many buttons does a Wii Remote have that you can use comfortably? The Wii remote is still a supported controller and is a focus in 3D World's Multiplayer. 2 Button design is still needed.
So is the microphone, would you use the microphone to control a video game? I WOULDN'T EITHER. The wiimote + the nunchuck had plenty of buttons to use, as do the gamepad, wii u pro controller, and 3DS; Nintendo's 3 most current controllers.
I don't understand your argument. Microphone is a feature on the GamePad. Some games have a stand-alone microphone but those microphones aren't supported outside that one use normally. The Wii Remote is still supported in many games, it is also in many Wii U owners houses already. It makes sense to design a game with that controller in mind. Just because there are other controllers that have more buttons doesn't mean your design has to exclude the Wii remote.
People keep saying the Xbox One doesn't have Backwards Compatibility.
I don't think they know what Backwards Compatibility means...
3DS Friend Code: 2621-2786-9784 | Nintendo Network ID: DefHalan
Just because you HAVE more buttons doesn't mean you NEED TO USE more buttons. And comparing a Wiimote to a Microphone? Are you just bound and determined to convince us that the Wii wasn't fun when we clearly enjoyed it? You made a point about not claiming your opinions are facts, yet here you are treating your opinions as facts.
The bottom of the artistic freedom issue is that artistic freedom creates bad things at times, but it also creates amazing things. You can't pick and choose, here. Just learn to sort one from the other.
Back to the two-button issue, from game design perspective, a lot of those abilities go hand-in-hand in Mario games. The way the game is made, the two-button scheme works just fine. And for someone who plays platformers a lot, having all of thise on the same button works extremely well. It really just sounds like a bunch of people complaining because it's not what they're used to.
I don't understand your argument. Microphone is a feature on the GamePad. Some games have a stand-alone microphone but those microphones aren't supported outside that one use normally. The Wii Remote is still supported in many games, it is also in many Wii U owners houses already. It makes sense to design a game with that controller in mind. Just because there are other controllers that have more buttons doesn't mean your design has to exclude the Wii remote.
Some people own a microphone controller too;
It does not make sense to force everyone to control platformers with this controller, just like the wiimote, and just like the 2-button control scheme. That's what options menus are for. Nintendo needs to read about them in a book or something.
Again, it's all about how the game is designed. Mario's design leaves little to no need for more than two buttons, while Rayman would struggle with less inputs than it already has.
2001 called, it said it controllers have more buttons now. Also, the entire of 7th gen left a message, it wanted to introduce you to its friend, options menus and rebind-able buttons.
Really? How many buttons does a Wii Remote have that you can use comfortably? The Wii remote is still a supported controller and is a focus in 3D World's Multiplayer. 2 Button design is still needed.
The wiimote has 3 buttons that can be used comfortably. B on the back is comfortable to use intermittently (e.g propeller Mario would have been better with it).
“30fps Is Not a Good Artistic Decision, It's a Failure”
Freedom of the press is for those who happen to own one.
I don't understand your argument. Microphone is a feature on the GamePad. Some games have a stand-alone microphone but those microphones aren't supported outside that one use normally. The Wii Remote is still supported in many games, it is also in many Wii U owners houses already. It makes sense to design a game with that controller in mind. Just because there are other controllers that have more buttons doesn't mean your design has to exclude the Wii remote.
Some people own a microphone controller too;
It does not make sense to force everyone to control platformers with this controller, just like the wiimote, and just like the 2-button control scheme. That's what options menus are for. Nintendo needs to read about them in a book or something.
I would play a platformer controlled by voice it would be interesting presuming it worked (And I think Nintendo could do it).
If those 7th gen games and Nintendo games are anything to go by offering configurable controls is not a good idea.
“30fps Is Not a Good Artistic Decision, It's a Failure”
Freedom of the press is for those who happen to own one.
There's no data on Tropical Freeze's sales numbers aside from it selling 130,000 in its first week. I don't think the sales were that good, we'd have probably heard by now if they were.
Not saying this site's definitely 100% accurate but it has roughly matched the official figures whenever Nintendo report them. Even if the specific figures are a little off, the order for each console is probably correct. Donkey Kong being the 9th best selling game on the system and the best selling game that wasn't developed at Nintendo.
Or MAYBE Nintendo DOESN'T force their devs to make the games they want their devs to make because MAYBE Nintendo actually RESPECTS the artistic freedom of their game developers?
You have precisely no idea what the hell you're talking about.
Haha yeah that doesn't sound like anything I've heard about Nintendo. They all pretty much have to pass the Miyamoto mid-level boss or it goes nowhere. He even seems to go in and exert some authority on games like Zelda, even though Aonuma has clearly proved he's capable.
I don't understand your argument. Microphone is a feature on the GamePad. Some games have a stand-alone microphone but those microphones aren't supported outside that one use normally. The Wii Remote is still supported in many games, it is also in many Wii U owners houses already. It makes sense to design a game with that controller in mind. Just because there are other controllers that have more buttons doesn't mean your design has to exclude the Wii remote.
Some people own a microphone controller too;
It does not make sense to force everyone to control platformers with this controller, just like the wiimote, and just like the 2-button control scheme. That's what options menus are for. Nintendo needs to read about them in a book or something.
That's possibly the most illogical argument you've made, thus far. Playing with a Wiimote is nothing like playing with a microphone. SOME people own the microphone, but MOST Wii U owners have a Wiimote lying around somewhere. There's a very huge difference, and it honestly makes you sound really stupid trying to play it off like there isn't.
Now as I've said, before, what's comfortable and what isn't is more often than not a matter of what you're used to, and whether or not a limited control scheme works for a game is a matter of how the game is designed. Mario is designed around a two-button input, and as the simplicity worked so well in the game's favor, there was no need to change that. Now, you can keep complaining about it, but you're howling into the wind, at best. It's needlessly complaining that something that works doesn't work.
Or MAYBE Nintendo DOESN'T force their devs to make the games they want their devs to make because MAYBE Nintendo actually RESPECTS the artistic freedom of their game developers?
You have precisely no idea what the hell you're talking about.
Haha yeah that doesn't sound like anything I've heard about Nintendo. They all pretty much have to pass the Miyamoto mid-level boss or it goes nowhere. He even seems to go in and exert some authority on games like Zelda, even though Aonuma has clearly proved he's capable.
Really, because from what I've heard, Miyamoto prefers to have little to do with Nintendo's home office and Nintendo's very loose-gripped about what their developers do. At least any devs that have worked with Nintendo seem to come away with that impression.
Just because you HAVE more buttons doesn't mean you NEED TO USE more buttons. And comparing a Wiimote to a Microphone? Are you just bound and determined to convince us that the Wii wasn't fun when we clearly enjoyed it? You made a point about not claiming your opinions are facts, yet here you are treating your opinions as facts.
The bottom of the artistic freedom issue is that artistic freedom creates bad things at times, but it also creates amazing things. You can't pick and choose, here. Just learn to sort one from the other.
Back to the two-button issue, from game design perspective, a lot of those abilities go hand-in-hand in Mario games. The way the game is made, the two-button scheme works just fine. And for someone who plays platformers a lot, having all of thise on the same button works extremely well. It really just sounds like a bunch of people complaining because it's not what they're used to.
Nintendo shouldn't be making control schemes that only feel natural to people who have been playing platformers since the SNES. As someone who has played very few 2D Platformers, mapping 3 unrelated functions non-contextually is a major barrier to entry for me.
Think, are there any other genres aside from Fighters (which have far more commands than inputs available) that do this in the modern era? Not really, it's almost exclusively tied to the 2D Mario games. Sure it may feel natural to the people who started with those, but that's the only group.
Currently Playing: Steamworld Heist, The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask, Tales of Graces F
Basically most games make X and A (on Xbox) do multiple things. X will reload your weapon, open doors, and interact with several objects. A will be jump, get in and out of cover, activate animations to get over chest high walls, and other things. It isn't weird for games to require 1 button to do multiple things, it actually makes a lot of sense to do that. You would need a full key board if you wanted everything to be a separate button. Having simplistic design that works on 2 buttons is good. I don't think many people need more than 2 buttons for most Mario Platformers.
People keep saying the Xbox One doesn't have Backwards Compatibility.
I don't think they know what Backwards Compatibility means...
3DS Friend Code: 2621-2786-9784 | Nintendo Network ID: DefHalan
Yeah, this is really the first I've heard of someone actually having trouble with a Mario game because of the control scheme, but at the end of the day, this method does work beter for the design of the game its in. You may not like it, but it does work extremely well in this context.
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