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Topic: Tokyo Mirage Sessions ♯FE - OT

Posts 761 to 780 of 1,096

whodatninja

I would've liked an English dub BUT ONLY IF JAPANESE WAS ALSO AN OPTION. So yeah, pretty lazy localization. Maybe if they spent more time dubbing, they wouldn't go so crazy with the visual censorship.

whodatninja

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SLIGEACH_EIRE

There's so much that isn't subtitled and you've no idea what they're saying in battle. I liked how in games like Xenoblade Chronicles they'd have the banter, other characters would shout out what move they're doing, you'd know how the battle was going by their chants and it all adds to the immersion. Now it's just gibberish.

Edited on by SLIGEACH_EIRE

SLIGEACH_EIRE

Nintendo Network ID: SLIGEACH_EIRE

SLIGEACH_EIRE

@whodatninja I meant to write dub but the point still stands. Adds to the disappointment. Who wants to predict the game's average review score? I think it'll be around 7.5/10, maybe slightly less.

Edited on by SLIGEACH_EIRE

SLIGEACH_EIRE

Nintendo Network ID: SLIGEACH_EIRE

Maxz

@whodatninja I don't see how the lack of dubbing and 'visual censorship' could possibly be related... I'm pretty sure they were separate issues and were dealt with separately.

My general view on this is that it would have been unrealistic to expect a complete dub of the game, given the limited forecasts Nintendo/Atlus must have for the title, combined with the fact that a decent portion of the userbase likely would have switched to Japanese if a language option was available anyway. I think it's also a case of being 'careful what you wish for', as it wasn't too long along that this kind of game wouldn't have even been considered to be SUBBED for the West, let alone dubbed.

It strikes me as a relatively recent phenomenon that this sort of game would be released in the West at all (you can see a lot of 3DS games still aren't). I can still remember when Monster Hunter, Dragon Quest, and other huge series in Japan, were just that: huge series in Japan and Japan alone. Even Fire Emblem itself arrived late to the party, as the first characters from the series joined in Smash Bros before one of their own games (although that was quite a while ago now).

Also, if we look at the track records for dubbing in recent Pokémon games (a significantly larger IP), we recall that Pokkén got some flack for being done 'in house' rather than by a professional Western studio, and Detective Pikachu... well, where is Detective Pikachu?

Both titles likely have significantly less spoken dialogue than this game, and come from a much larger - and safer - franchise, and yet neither have splashed out on a top-quality English dub (the later not having yet been translated in any form).

The poor sales in its native country (I think it's sold under 1/3 of what XCX sold) must also have had a bearing on the decision.

So making too much fuss about the lack of dubbing is really wasting breath (or keystrokes), as it wouldn't have been financially viable for a game this niche.

What seems a valid concern is the lack of subbing in battle. It may makes the characters feel disconnected from the player, and you'd imagine it wouldn't have been too much more difficult to implement than some of the other, more controversial (though largely superficial) changes.

To be fair, I can't actually think of too many people who have complained about the lack of dubbing - most see it as a fair compromise for getting the game at all - but I do wonder how people will feel about that omission in particular...

Edited on by Maxz

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kkslider5552000

tbh, unless the original has underwhelming voice acting, I have no idea why anyone would play this game in particular dubbed. And I like dubs, but this is such a thoroughly Japanese game. It's not even like other Fire Emblem games that take place in a fantasy world, it takes place in Japan. Modern Japan, and being in Modern Japan is significant to the whole experience.

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yokokazuo

Well I decided to pre-order the special edition! I've been on the fence for awhile since it is more expensive than it should normally be in Canada, but decided to go for it.

@Pahvi I think that it was mentioned that the reason there aren't subtitles in combat is because of all the things on the screen already. But I do think it would be nice to have.
There isn't anything particularly important at least though. Some of the things they say relate to when you come across an enemy for the first time. When attacking an enemy that hasn't been defeated yet, they will say something like "We won't know unless we try", but it also shows question marks when the effect of your attack is unknown against the enemy. When your attack is good against an enemy, they will say they can perform a session attack and there are indicators on the screen. Same thing for when the attack will have none or a negative effect so it isn't exactly necessary for subtitles at least.

yokokazuo

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veeflames

SLIGEACH_EIRE wrote:

I meant to write dub but the point still stands. Adds to the disappointment. Who wants to predict the game's average review score? I think it'll be around 7.5/10, maybe slightly less.

Guess we all should expect dozens of users to cite Metacritic on this website's review of the game, then... here we go again.

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SLIGEACH_EIRE

I cannot stress just how badly this game sold in Japan. The Wii U sold really well over Christmas, selling 145,000 units for the first 2 weeks of Shin Megami Tensei x Fire Emblem's release. The game, however, didn't even make the top 10 on release and was gone the following week. To date the game has sold 50,000 units in Japan.

This game has been handled so poorly. I was listening to the guys on IGN talking about it and how nobody understands what's going on or what the game is about. Comparing it to XCX, how that got explanation videos and promotion. This game needs explaining more than any before it and there's a wall of silence with the game less than a month away from release. What do they think, a video around E3 will make it sell by the bucket load?

SLIGEACH_EIRE

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Haru17

JaxonH wrote:

@Haru17
I believe you are taking my words out of context.

Great.

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Grumblevolcano

@SLIGEACH_EIRE The timing was just very poor, if you're getting a Wii U why would you get that game when you could get the Splatoon / Super Mario Maker bundle instead?

Super Mario Maker is technically an endless game (the end is when the servers shut down) and Splatoon to Japan is like Battlefield/CoD to the west.

Grumblevolcano

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SLIGEACH_EIRE

@Grumblevolcano How can you say its timing was poor? It was meant to be the big title at one of the busiest times of the year. The 2 other titles you mentioned sold nearly 100,000(some of which would have been from console bundles) each that week while Shin Megami Tensei x Fire Emblem languished.

SLIGEACH_EIRE

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whodatninja

@Maxz If Nintendo already knows very few will buy the game (which is probably true) and thus wont waste money and time on a dub, why do they waste money and time on censoring some of the visuals (when they already aged up the characters)? It doesn't matter if it's an amazing dub, as long as it's there for those who want it, it could bring in some more purchases.
And why leave out optional paid DLC which could earn them some extra money?

Nintendo plain doesn't know who they should market/localize this game to: kids and families, or JRPG fans.

Edited on by whodatninja

whodatninja

Nintendo Network ID: whodatninja117

Shinion

@whodatninja because of SJWs. They boycotted, censored and ultimately banned the original version leading to what we have here, a game that is literally impossible to be fun because Nintendo edited a few of the female costumes and possibly put in a few memes.

I'm buying it day 1.

Shinion

Maxz

@whodatninja I don't know the exact specifics of how Nintendo/Atlus approach localisation, but it's certainly nothing new. I've always assumed it's about jumping through whatever hoops each region's rating system throws at them for each game. Japan inevitably has a different ratings system from the US, which in turn has a different ratings system from Europe.

In fact, if you're interested, you can compare them here. Interestingly, even WITH the original 'un-cencored' content, the game is less restricted in Japan (it gets a B from CERO, which puts it in the Yellow category) than it is in Europe (where is gets a rating of 12, and is thus put in the Orange category).

I can only imagine Atlus/Nintendo were desperate not to have the game classified in the ERSB's Red category (which is much more heavily restricted), hence the changes that were made.

That gives you a pretty good idea of the challenges faced when trying to bring a game worldwide; every region presents a new ratings board, and every ratings board has the opportunity to hack away at your potential audience.

It's not Nintendo or Atlus's problem so much as it is ERSB/PEGI/CERO's inconsistency.

Nintendo doesn't 'hate you', or 'not trust you' to play the video games that Japan plays. It's not about 'you'. It's about the audience you're a part of, and what your region's ratings board decides is appropriate. Nintendo just wants to sell video games - ideally to as large an audience as they did in the country the game was released in. It's a financial decision, not a moral one.

As for your other claims, I have no concrete evidence, but I'm pretty sure that it costs SIGNIFICANTLY less to get the designers of the game to make a handful of new, more 'modest' costumes for the game, than it does to hire an entire cast of voice actors to dub through every line of a sizeable RPG. Every character has a large collection of costumes as it is; designing a few more would cost absolute pittance. Getting a whole new team of voice actors (perhaps several in Europe) to redo every line in a rather wordy RPG is a significantly more costly venture. Yes, it may sell a few more copies, but I seriously doubt the extra copies sold would cover the costs.

And finally, this is a game set around the Shibuya and Harajuku districts of Tokyo, following the adventures of Itsuki Aoi and Tsubasa Oribe as she aims to break into the Japanese idol industry. Your partners include Tōma Akagi, who wants to become an actor in a Tokusatsu show, and Mamori Minamoto, a cooking show host with a taste for Shōwa period clothing and music (apparently), among many others.

If players can't handle the sub because it makes the game feel 'too Japanese', then maybe they were looking at the wrong game to begin with.

Anyway, this discussion is extremely tired - and above all - largely insubstantial. I think pretty much every point has been covered. Yes, people are annoyed at the game because they HAVE altered the visuals 'for a Western audience', so as not to have the hammered by the EUR/USA ratings board. Yes, people are annoyed because they HAVEN'T altered the voice acting 'for a Western audience', so as to save money, and because it's in keeping with the Japanese setting.

People can keep going on and on about those points as much as they like, and continue saying what they want to hear (rather than considering the realities that brought those decisions about), but I'd much rather move on and talk about the game itself.

Edited on by Maxz

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Ralizah

@kkslider5552000 The big reason I'm glad it's not dubbed is the heavy emphasis on singing. Either the singing would be left undubbed, which would be very awkward next to English speaking characters, or they would dub the singing, and that almost never goes well.

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Maxz

@Ralizah That's another good point, and possibly even more relevant than the costs. I was running through the chords of the main song earlier - I can't remember what it's called, so let's just call it 'Tsubasa's Theme', and wondering how they'd handle that if a dub were involved. It'd feel rather weird and awkward if the otherwise English speaking characters suddenly broke into Japanese for their singing parts.

The whole theme is based around the songs, and there's been some effort put into making sound professional. In fact, I'm guiltily fond of some of the game's music - certainly the battle theme. I find the singing in Tsubasa's theme a bit grating, but the chording is actually quite interesting, and I'm sure singing would certainly be preferable (or at least of higher quality) to an awkwardly dubbed version.

Anyway, yeah, probably better things to complain, or at least talk about. It seems like people are really trying to find reasons to slate the game, and going beyond the reasonable.

Anyway, speaking of such things, does anyone know if Itsuki gets to stretch his vocal chords at any point and do any singing? Or does he mainly run around and scowl at things, and play the 'safe' (if slightly dull) male protagonist?

Edited on by Maxz

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yokokazuo

@Maxz Itsuki is mainly there to help support the others, but a couple others don't sing either. Touma doesn't sing and instead wants to become an action hero. (Kind of like Ultraman or Power Rangers)
Eleonora wants to become an actress in Hollywood, but if I recall correctly, there is a part with singing for her.

yokokazuo

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Gultigargar

Is this still a thing?

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I'm not what to post, but something should pop up here eventually.

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