Topic: Motion Plus use?

Of course, the only hardware publisher that is truly open to all (assuming it's not a porn game and it doesn't infringe copyright) is Apple (most because Apple's interest in games is minimal), and of course the PC, though developing for the PC has a whole host of different problems for developers.

But in the context of this discussion, we're talking about a hardware publisher trying to force third parties to use a peripheral. Find me a case of Microsoft demanding a third party make a Kinect game and you have a point.

Isn't Mirxosoft Limits due to Hardware becoming out dated rather then Developer's being forced to use some type of Kinect. Even then the PS3 is only the lead development tool in a few cases.

@TrueWiiMaster
You don't seem to understand what the differences between the original controller and motion plus actually are. They're litterally the same thing except that the motion plus controller has a gyro, if you're not using the gyro there's no need for it.

Let's imagine for a second that we're talking about the scroll wheel on a mouse. Computer mice had been out for ages without a scroll-wheel and suddenly there was a scroll wheel which was a cool addition but it's not ALWAYS needed. What you're asking for would be the equivalent of if after this new mouse Microsoft suddenly stopped hardware support for the old mice in, say, windows 95 back in the day. You plug in an old mouse and it says "nope, we can't let you use that". That wouldn't help anyone, it's just annoying and pointless.

I understand your general point in wanting more support for motion plus BUT the fact that motion plus is in the box solves the "no devs support it" problem anyways. If it's a standard feature in the system you're developing for you can assume everyone has it. If you want great games you should let developers should be able to do whatever they want. If they don't want to use the gyro they shouldn't have to and... if they are forced to only support motion plus but choose NOT to use the gyro what was the point? That's called a standard Wii Remote......

@yellow chocobo
Last I heard developers did not refuse to make games on the PS3 or Xbox 360 just because the previous gen's controllers weren't supported. In fact, I don't remember very many developers being excited to develop on the Wii because of Gamecube support either. They used the Wii remote and then the Gamecube remote was an alternative occasionally. Besides, even if the motion plus was mandatory, they'd still be compatible with last gen's remotes; motion plus is last gen. Not everyone would have to buy 3 new remotes to have a complete set of 4. Also, the install base you mention barely seems applicable here. Developers making games for the Wii U could care less about how many people own a Wii, and only heavily multiplayer games like party games would rely on consumers having plenty of old remotes to sell their games. Most other games sell on the merit of online, 1 player, or 2 player. Have you ever tried an fps with 4 players on the Wii, playing split screen? It's not all that suited to it.

BTW, you know what an install base is right? When the Vita comes out it won't have one yet. An install base is the number of people who own the unit. Even with the joy pad accessory the 3DS would still have a larger install base. Besides, the addition of the pad is a very different situation from the motion plus debate. It's more like the Wii's nunchuck than like an actual improvement. It adds another joystick. It does not improve the actual system's already-present controls like the motion plus does.

PS- I didn't realize wanting better controls would be an exclusively personal benefit...Just to clear up, I don't own a Wii remote plus, just the attachment. It makes controls so much sharper I can only assume developers don't use it because there are too many people without it. If it is bundled with the Wii U as it almost definitely will be that won't be a problem. As such, the only reason to use the original remote at all is to tap into the people who have several, which would, as I said, only really help party games and maybe racing games. Other genres would gain nothing from its inclusion.

@skywake
I don't think a scenario with computers is really comparable here...I mean, they're used for work, school, games, general media, browsing, and just about anything else. The Wii and Wii U are really just for gaming. Besides, the scroll wheel is really just there for convenience. It is never necessary for navigating a computer easily, it just makes it easier. Motion plus is more like comparing a roller ball mouse (if that's the right name) to a laser mouse. One is far more accurate than the other. Of course, a roller ball mouse is still usable in almost every case, just with less accuracy, while the original remote can actually take away from the controls of a game. Like I said, it's hard to compare them. Unless you're doing precision-heavy stuff on your computer, you don't need much accuracy. In video games, however, it's the other way around. Unless you're playing a side-scroller or something like that, better accuracy is very important.

Also, I never said every game had to actually utilize the motion plus abilities. After all, some games don't even have motion controls. I said, or at least meant, it would be best if only the motion plus controllers worked on the Wii U. My reasoning, as I've said, was not to improve every game on the system but to improve many. Those it doesn't improve will lose nothing at all. Having both usable on the system could very well take away from the use of motion plus. Think about it. As a developer do you want to risk your game underselling because its competition's game, though poorly controlled, allowed for the old remote? No. You make your game compatible too. Before long the situation on the Wii repeats itself. Even if the game was a one player adventure and only needed just the one remote that was bundled with the system, some consumers would still want complete compatibility if it was an option.

@TrueWiiMaster
I think you fail to realise that the main and pretty much only reason why Motion Plus hasn't had much support is because it's a smaller install base. I don't think that a developer would be worried about being outsold by their competitors because their competitors had "poor controls". More likely they were simply worried that they're selling for a system with a 80+mill user base and might be limiting their actual user base to a lot less. With Motion Plus in the box with the Wii U that's a non-issue. If they think it'll improve the game then they can implement it on the Wii U and they won't have to worry about it impacting on sales. End of story.

Also, yes, motion plus IS like the scroll wheel on a mouse so my analogy does fit. It's an addition that requires extra effort to implement but it allows you to do cool new stuffs if you can be bothered. I was going to use the ball to lazer mouse in my analogy but I don't think it fits given that a Wii Remote with Motion Plus that doesn't use the gyros is identical to a Wii Remote.... and you're saying "ban support for the Wii Remote! Require Motion Plus be connected even when it's unused". Which is ridiculous.

I understand what you're saying about there being little risk in developers using motion plus in their games if every Wii U owner has one. My worry is that lazy developers will still skip out on it to make development as cheap and quick as possible. I doubt anything you say will change that worry, because there are plenty of cheap developers out there, but I definitely agree that more motion plus will be used. I just hope it is used in every game I end up wanting where it would help. As long as developers use motion plus where it works, I don't really care if regular remotes are compatible or not. That said, the only games where motion plus would be completely irrelevant are side-scrollers and maybe point-and-click adventure games.

As for the analogy, I still think it's unrelate-able. A mouse can scroll around with or without the scroll wheel, it just needs to click a button to do it when there's no wheel. An original Wii remote CANNOT have the accuracy of a motion plus period. They may be the same remote when the motion plus isn't used, but when it is they're in different leagues. When two mice, one with and one without a scroll wheel, are compared one is only more convenient. It doesn't actually improve the controls; it's more like a shortcut to the buttons you'd have to use without it.

Dang. I don't have a motion plus controller

I'd like to see it dropped, but right now, I can't afford to buy four new Motion Plus accessories soooooo... idk

It's a functional hardware addition that makes the process easier while keeping the original hardware unchanged. Your argument that the mouse wheel only makes actions more convenient is an exact parallel of what motion plus does. Even something like Skyward Sword COULD be controlled withoutMotion Plus. It'd suck hard because you'd probably have to map swinging your sword to holding a button and moving the analogue stick to get it to work but it would work. Which is exactly like the mouse wheel example.

I think this is where I say "checkmate"... yes?

well it's the only explanation for their E3 conference.

Or they could be offering some kind of incentive for doing so, like extra funds or help from Microsoft.

@skywake
Like I said, the scroll wheel on a mouse is a shortcut. Rather than press an arrow and drag the side bar, you just roll the wheel, as if it was already on the arrow.

Motion Plus is NOT a shortcut. Yes, actions controlled by motions can be mapped to buttons, but if you do that why use the Wii remote at all? Using motion to swing Link's sword isn't a shortcut, but a way to further immerse the player into the game by allowing them to swing a virtual sword of their own. Motion Plus is a means to make said motion more realistic. If anything, it is the opposite of a shortcut, in that it makes things take longer. Many people dislike the Wii because they don't want to swing a remote to swing a sword; they want to press a button.

If Motion Plus was like a scroll wheel on a mouse it would add absolutely nothing to gameplay. It would be completely unnecessary in every case, and everything it allows would be doable without it. None of that is the case. When used, Motion plus has added a sense of depth to playing rarely seen in video games, and without it that sense is unattainable. If you disagree compare Red Steel to its sequel, or Twilight Princess to Skyward Sword. The improvements in controls between games could not have been achieved without motion plus. I can still scroll through this page without the scroll wheel.

No, this is where I say checkmate.